OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

The place for all discussion on gaming hardware
User avatar
badwhite40
Posts: 120
Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:15 am
Location: Spain

Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by badwhite40 »

Really happy with the results. No imperfections and all the scanlines are perfect in line X2 or X3.
Is not good cut so much to the size but anyway is enough for me and playing in the vewlix the distance from the image to me is really near. More or less are 22" in 4/3 from the 32" 16/9.
Not bad deal if can play in so good conditions to all retro games.

Tomorrow I will test it in the jvc 1080 projector. I think is going to be gorgeous. Will post some pics

Thank you very much

I have found very usefull the pics of Blair and setings from his vp50.
Thanks a lot !
User avatar
Harrumph
Posts: 368
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 10:06 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by Harrumph »

There is a thread at videogameperfection for this type of thing, just a shame people haven't used it much. Maybe you can add your findings there too?
https://www.videogameperfection.com/for ... p3050edge/
User avatar
marqs
Posts: 1034
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:11 pm
Location: Finland

Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by marqs »

Fudoh wrote:yes, definitely a 768p panel. If you set the OSSC to 480p and let the DVDO handle the upscaling from 480p to 768p it will probably look better than 720p to 768p and that's as good as it will get on this kind of panel. It's far from perfect, but as you have noticed yourself 768p just doesn't offer enough resolution to allow any better upscaling.

One thing you can try is to enable the underscan option on the DVDO and try if you can display the OSSC's 720p inside a 768p frame. There's no way to get it right automatically, but maybe you find a % value using the underscan option that gives you a pretty close 720p hit.

PS: since you tried various 768p resolutions: 1360*768 is the right one, since it gives you a horizontal 1:1 mapping as well, so your display won't do anymore scaling.
If DVDO supports reduced blanking, it's also possible to set OSSC to 1280x768 output by setting V. backporch to around 1 and V. active to 256.
Xer Xian wrote:Whoa, I never thought line5x could be achieved, you are really squeezing the heck out of that little box! :o
Say, how will scanlines be rendered in line4x/5x? I mean, every other line is blackened in line2x, while in 3x, it's every third line - will this pattern continue for bigger multiples?
Line4x masks 2 out 4 output scanlines (per input scanline), and line5x 2 out of 5. There has been also discussion about masking an extra scanline in line3x/5x with half intensity to get 50:50 look in those modes as well.
kel
Posts: 227
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:11 pm

Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by kel »

marqs wrote:There has been also discussion about masking an extra scanline in line3x/5x with half intensity to get 50:50 look in those modes as well.
I'm not a big fan of the 50:50 look, reminds me of a BVM. I know a lot of people love the BVM look with big thick scanlines but if like me you prefer a lower TVL monitor where the active lines tend to overlap the blank lines a little more than 50:50 then that is closer to how line3x is now IMHO.
User avatar
badwhite40
Posts: 120
Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:15 am
Location: Spain

Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by badwhite40 »

Difficult take good pics from the iPhone in the dark projection room.
Is awesome. Believe me. The OSSC in 2X or 3x + dvdo is a superb combo. (Plus JVC HD100)

Playing 240p titles in 80" is something cool and comfortable with this image quality
User avatar
Xyga
Posts: 7181
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:22 pm
Location: block

Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by Xyga »

marqs wrote:Line4x masks 2 out 4 output scanlines (per input scanline), and line5x 2 out of 5. There has been also discussion about masking an extra scanline in line3x/5x with half intensity to get 50:50 look in those modes as well.
BTW I think we've talked about that quite some time ago but I've forgot: there'll be enough room for some rudimentary grille and mask effects, so... any luck for that ?
Can't say I'm enthusiast for filters à la 2xSaI or HQ2x...
Strikers1945guy wrote:"Do we....eat chicken balls?!"
paulb_nl
Posts: 340
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2016 5:05 pm

Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by paulb_nl »

marqs wrote:There has been also discussion about masking an extra scanline in line3x/5x with half intensity to get 50:50 look in those modes as well.
I was thinking that the extra scanline intensity would be adjustable so that we can fine-tune the scanline thickness.
User avatar
marqs
Posts: 1034
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:11 pm
Location: Finland

Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by marqs »

Firmware 0.76 is finally out now:

* Line4x and Line5x implemented
* 960i and 1080i support added
* Dedicated line multiplication settings for each mode group
* Passthru option added for all mode groups
* 4:3 / 8:7 aspect selection for 256x240 mode
* Overlay mask placement fixed
* Mask brightness control added
* Fixed phase shift issue on optimized modes
* Increased IR receiver tolerance

That's quite big list of updates, including fixes for a few persistent issues and implementations for some long-awaited features. There are still things to improve, but limitations of the hardware are getting close so future updates are likely to be smaller and less frequent.
ZellSF
Posts: 2642
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:12 pm

Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by ZellSF »

Some initial impressions...

For the DVDO VP50, 240p passthrough does not work. Unsurprisingly 4x doesn't work for 240p any more than 2x did for 480p. 5x however seems to work.

For the XRGB-mini, 240p passthrough works and 4x works. I had issues with 5x, but might be my cable.

I have to test if there are any image quality improvements using 5x for the DVDO VP50 and 240p passthrough for the XRGB-mini. I know there should be in theory.

Mask brightness control is great, but can you make it go brighter? 15 (the highest) corresponds to "low" on my TV and I'm sure "medium" and "high" are there for a reason.
Last edited by ZellSF on Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Thomago
Posts: 585
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:01 pm
Location: Germany

Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by Thomago »

So... here's what my SNES looks in Line5x mode. Wow.

Image

With Line4x added for 240p signals and Line2x available for 480p signals, I'll have to ask yet again: Is a Line4x mode for 480i signals possible?
ZellSF
Posts: 2642
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:12 pm

Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by ZellSF »

DVDO VP50 3x:
https://i.cubeupload.com/1KM5DD.png
As you except, some ringing.

DVDO VP50 5x:
https://i.cubeupload.com/mNxYlq.png
Just showing the clearly reduced ringing. It cuts off some of the game vertically though, but not more than the 10% overscan most of these games were made for.

DVDO VP50 5x 256x240 optimized:
https://i.cubeupload.com/XcH2eF.png
That looks so very close to perfect you wouldn't believe a scaler meant for video was involved in the process. It can probably look a tad better too by disabling the artificial sharpening (the VP50 was as its default non-neutral "1" setting for these captures) and tweaking LPF settings.
Chacranajxy
Posts: 430
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:44 am
Location: USA

Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by Chacranajxy »

I can't wait to try this.
User avatar
Xyga
Posts: 7181
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:22 pm
Location: block

Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by Xyga »

@Galdelico; you'll have to shoot some more pictures. :mrgreen:
Strikers1945guy wrote:"Do we....eat chicken balls?!"
ZellSF
Posts: 2642
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:12 pm

Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by ZellSF »

Sample rate is still finicky as hell, are there dedicated remote buttons for adjusting it in this firmware?
User avatar
lettuce
Posts: 1334
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:10 pm
Location: Bedfordshire, England.

Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by lettuce »

Are Line4x and Line5x modes as picky as Line3x on LCD TVs??
User avatar
Pasky
Posts: 694
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:58 am

Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by Pasky »

Is the only way to purchase one still through the mailing list?
User avatar
BuckoA51
Posts: 3358
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:08 am
Location: Ireland
Contact:

Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by BuckoA51 »

For the DVDO VP50, 240p passthrough does not work. Unsurprisingly 4x doesn't work for 240p any more than 2x did for 480p. 5x however seems to work.
Interesting, on my 50 Pro 240p passthrough worked but 4x and 5x didn't work at all. That was on the beta firmware though, I'll flash to release and try again.
OSSC Forums - http://www.videogameperfection.com/forums
Please check the Wiki before posting about Morph, OSSC, XRGB Mini or XRGB3 - http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/Main_Page
paulb_nl
Posts: 340
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2016 5:05 pm

Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by paulb_nl »

Thanks Marqs. Its really appreciated! SNES in 1080p pixel perfect looks ridiculously sharp :mrgreen:
ZellSF
Posts: 2642
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:12 pm

Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by ZellSF »

BuckoA51 wrote:
For the DVDO VP50, 240p passthrough does not work. Unsurprisingly 4x doesn't work for 240p any more than 2x did for 480p. 5x however seems to work.
Interesting, on my 50 Pro 240p passthrough worked but 4x and 5x didn't work at all. That was on the beta firmware though, I'll flash to release and try again.
Did you remember to disable cadence detection? It's still a per resolution setting that does not get along with the OSSC.
lettuce wrote:Are Line4x and Line5x modes as picky as Line3x on LCD TVs??
Guessing this is really going to be a YMMV situation. My TV tries (and fails) to sync at 3x, but doesn't even attempt 4x or 5x.
User avatar
awe444
Posts: 156
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:58 am
Location: New York

Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by awe444 »

marqs wrote: * 960i and 1080i support added
Just wanted to highlight this---it means the large number of PS2 games which can't be forced directly to 480p using GSM now can be played progressive (in linedoubled 480p =1280x960p). Select the (incorrectly-named) GSM mode "VGA 640x480i" (in fact it's 960i) and ensure the OSSC is set to RGsB input. Also make sure the scanlines are set to non-alternating mode and you'll get a flicker-free, true 480-line image. Best viewed at native res inside a 1080p frame without scaling to fullscreen, e.g. using a DVDO or XPC-4 processor between the OSSC and display.
User avatar
BuckoA51
Posts: 3358
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:08 am
Location: Ireland
Contact:

Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by BuckoA51 »

Did you remember to disable cadence detection? It's still a per resolution setting that does not get along with the OSSC.
Yeah cadence detection should always be off for games. Sadly I can confirm my earlier findings line x5 isn't compatible with the 50 Pro.
OSSC Forums - http://www.videogameperfection.com/forums
Please check the Wiki before posting about Morph, OSSC, XRGB Mini or XRGB3 - http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/Main_Page
wildchild22
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:30 pm

Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by wildchild22 »

Well the new firmware fixes a big problem I had. Before the new firmware my OSCC and my new samsung 4k ks8000 would not accept any signal at all through the OSCC. Now with 0.76 if I use the passthrough option for all settings it works absolutely perfect.

I used to have to use my dvdo to get a pic but now this will cut the lag down hopefully and there is another device removed from the chain.

So anyone with a samsung set the oscc to passthrough and use dvi in the oscc setting and it works.
The samsung sees the signal as 1440x240p.
weird
User avatar
BuckoA51
Posts: 3358
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:08 am
Location: Ireland
Contact:

Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by BuckoA51 »

Hardly worth using an OSSC if you're going to pass through 240p though... so that TV accepts no signal from OSSC but accepts 240p over HDMI... you have to wonder what Samsung's engineers were smoking...
OSSC Forums - http://www.videogameperfection.com/forums
Please check the Wiki before posting about Morph, OSSC, XRGB Mini or XRGB3 - http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/Main_Page
User avatar
Xer Xian
Posts: 881
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 3:23 pm
Location: Italy

Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by Xer Xian »

The OSSC keeps on giving! I look forward to try out the new features tomorrow. Huge thanks for the great job Marqs (and beta-testers as well) :o

Raw Line4x and 5 will likely be a no-go for tv-sets, but according to what Marqs said earlier, for Line 5x there should be an option to display the picture inside a 1080p frame (if I understood correctly):
Line5x allows setting output format to 1920x1080, 1600x1200 or 1920x1200 to make it usable in various configurations, while Line4x output is fixed to 1280x960.
This should make the output much more tv-friendly, bar for consoles with non-standard refresh rates.. I still don't get how you can 'embed' ~1200 horizontal lines into a 1080p frame though.
wildchild22
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:30 pm

Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by wildchild22 »

Well the ks8000 only has hdmi inputs so it is worth using if you want a pic.


BuckoA51 wrote:Hardly worth using an OSSC if you're going to pass through 240p though... so that TV accepts no signal from OSSC but accepts 240p over HDMI... you have to wonder what Samsung's engineers were smoking...
User avatar
Bahn Yuki
Posts: 230
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 11:33 pm
Location: Salem OR
Contact:

Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by Bahn Yuki »

So I tried the LineX4 and X5 modes on my Vizio 4K D series 65" and it wasn't compatible on HDMI 5. This is the ultra low lag port as it doesn't go through the TV's scaler and can do 4K/60@4:2:0. On a hunch I put the OSSC into HDMI 4 and lo and behold everything works. LineX4 and X5 work flawlessly. I never really tested out the Vizio's scaler but it's far better than I thought. I can make the screen larger or smaller, change position and other various options. Also much to my delight the 480x2 does work for Dreamcast and the TV displays it as 1280 x 960.

Only downside is that I'm no longer on the "fast" input of HDMI 5 which is rated 13ms. Still with 5X mode and various other options now available to me, I find that the OSSC is truly an incredible product. Paired with a "cheap" Vizio 4K D series the results are simply astonishing.

One final thing, using the Dreamcast on AV3 I'm no longer getting an image when the output is set to "DTV". I have to keep it on Auto or VESA 640 x 480 in order to get an image. On the previous firmware DTV worked fine. Has anyone else tried this out?
Displays I currently own:
LG 83C1(OLED),LG 77C2(OLED), LG 42C2(OLED),TCL 75R635(MiniLED),Apple Studio Monitor 21(PCCRT),SONY 34XBR960x2(HDCRT)
SONY 32XBR250,Samsung UBJ590(LED),Panasonic P50VT20(Plasma),JVC NZ8
User avatar
Guspaz
Posts: 3136
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:37 pm
Location: Montréal, Canada

Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by Guspaz »

This was unexpected. My projector does not handle 240x3 or 480x2... But it is perfectly happy with 240x4 on SNES/NES/PSX/GBI-LL

Furthermore, GBI-ULL was previously incompatible with my projector via the OSSC: it did not and still does not work with 2x or 3x, which used to be the only options. But my projector DOES sync to GBI-ULL with passthru and 4x! Everything that I've tested so far has worked with 4x, although 4x scanlines are ugly (uneven).

So basically this firmware has, for me, improved the sharpness of my image (by going from 2x to 4x), and increased compatibility by letting me use GBI-ULL. Sweet!
User avatar
bobrocks95
Posts: 3460
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:27 am
Location: Kentucky

Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by bobrocks95 »

wildchild22 wrote:Well the ks8000 only has hdmi inputs so it is worth using if you want a pic.


BuckoA51 wrote:Hardly worth using an OSSC if you're going to pass through 240p though... so that TV accepts no signal from OSSC but accepts 240p over HDMI... you have to wonder what Samsung's engineers were smoking...
You could have gotten a $30 HDMI converter that did the exact same thing though if all you're doing with the OSSC is using pass-through mode.
PS1 Disc-Based Game ID BIOS patch for MemCard Pro and SD2PSX automatic VMC switching.
User avatar
bonzo.bits
Posts: 131
Joined: Thu May 14, 2015 3:37 am
Location: Australia

Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by bonzo.bits »

Guspaz wrote:This was unexpected. My projector does not handle 240x3 or 480x2... But it is perfectly happy with 240x4 on SNES/NES/PSX/GBI-LL

Furthermore, GBI-ULL was previously incompatible with my projector via the OSSC: it did not and still does not work with 2x or 3x, which used to be the only options. But my projector DOES sync to GBI-ULL with passthru and 4x! Everything that I've tested so far has worked with 4x, although 4x scanlines are ugly (uneven).

So basically this firmware has, for me, improved the sharpness of my image (by going from 2x to 4x), and increased compatibility by letting me use GBI-ULL. Sweet!
Sounds like a valid reason to test all displays for 4x and 5x compatibility, where 3x isn't compatible with that display. Be a handy inclusion in the VGP forum's compatability list.

I also have a question about DVI over HDMI. I was playing around with the OSSC's DVI/HDMI setting on my second TV, a POS Palsonic plasma from 2007. Turns out that the TV accepts DVI over HDMI. Didn't think much of this until I noticed that where the HDMI signal is stretched and takes up the full height of the screen, the DVI signal is letterboxed.

Does this mean that the TV is picking up additional information that it ignores over HDMI? If so, would this not be a possible way of uncovering compatability with line 3x, 4x and 5x, when the HDMI signal is not compatible with these modes on certain displays? IE, retest incompatible sets with the TX option set to DVI?
User avatar
Unseen
Posts: 723
Joined: Sun May 25, 2014 8:12 pm
Contact:

Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by Unseen »

bonzo.bits wrote:Turns out that the TV accepts DVI over HDMI.
I think it would violate the HDMI specs if it would refuse a DVI signal on an HDMI input.
Didn't think much of this until I noticed that where the HDMI signal is stretched and takes up the full height of the screen, the DVI signal is letterboxed.
It probably assumes that a DVI signal comes from a computer and doesn't scale the image to the full height to avoid fuzzy text. Or maybe it instead tries to preserve a 1:1 pixel aspect ratio for computer sources.
Does this mean that the TV is picking up additional information that it ignores over HDMI?
There is no additional information in DVI that it could pick up - if you remove all additional information transmitted in an HDMI signal, you end up with a DVI signal.
Post Reply