XRGB-mini Framemeister

[jdawg131]

I've been out of the loop for several weeks.

Saw some posts about N64 jailbar issues. My XRGB Mini is on firmware 2.03a, and I have no jailbars with my N64 using a sync on luma (JP21) RGB cable from Retro_Console_Accessories. The N64 was RGB modded this past summer (July 2016) by Retro Fixes, so my board does not have the firmware with de-blur or the THS7314 amp.

My Saturn is a model 2 and is connected with a sync on luma (JP21) RGB cable from Solaris Japan. It definitely has the jailbar issue. For a few games it's not noticeable, but for the majority, it's (beyond) obvious.

Correction - my firmware is 2.03 (not 2.03a).

[Ripthorn]

I've run into a new problem and I fear there is an issue with my Framemeister unit.

I'm starting to see green dots on input flickering around the screen. They don't appear on the menu itself (either the blue or black background) but when inputting RGB, S-video or component I can see green dots all over the place.

Any thoughts? Tried half a dozen different HDMI cables and different displays. Same issue.

...OK, so at least one cable works fine. I don't get it.

Have you tried turning off the deep color option?
I get several weird artifacts when this option is enabled.

[leonk]

I've been out of the loop for several weeks.

Saw some posts about N64 jailbar issues. My XRGB Mini is on firmware 2.03a, and I have no jailbars with my N64 using a sync on luma (JP21) RGB cable from Retro_Console_Accessories. The N64 was RGB modded this past summer (July 2016) by Retro Fixes, so my board does not have the firmware with de-blur or the THS7314 amp.

My Saturn is a model 2 and is connected with a sync on luma (JP21) RGB cable from Solaris Japan. It definitely has the jailbar issue. For a few games it's not noticeable, but for the majority, it's (beyond) obvious.

Correction - my firmware is 2.03 (not 2.03a).

are you sure about that?

Deblur only exists on Ultra hdmi kit and N64RGB. THS7314 is a simple rgb amp for N64 consoles with serial numbers NS1xxxxxxx. These work great with xrgb mini but do not offer deblur.

[dark1x]

I've run into a new problem and I fear there is an issue with my Framemeister unit.

I'm starting to see green dots on input flickering around the screen. They don't appear on the menu itself (either the blue or black background) but when inputting RGB, S-video or component I can see green dots all over the place.

Any thoughts? Tried half a dozen different HDMI cables and different displays. Same issue.

...OK, so at least one cable works fine. I don't get it.

Have you tried turning off the deep color option?
I get several weird artifacts when this option is enabled.

Yeah, I have.

I've isolated the issue to longer cables. I have to use a 15ft cable run from the Framemeister to the TV due to the way my setup is designed. Getting it closer isn't easy. This was never a problem but, now, most longer cables or cable combinations are resulting in various artefacts. Some cables don't work at all (the screen just flashes), some show severe green speckles while others show minor green speckles. The one that I'm using now shows light green speckles in 1080p60 mode but nothing in 720p60 mode (it works fine). This suggests a bandwidth problem similar to issues encountered with trying to pass 4K video over longer distances.

Now, if I use a number of other shorter HDMI cables, the image is fine in all modes.

...but the question I have is why would it suddenly stop working with longer cables? I even grabbed some brand new ones and none of them work properly. It's like the HDMI signal is too weak from the Framemeister all of the sudden. I'm using two shorter cables and a coupler right now - I have two couplers and one doesn't properly at all while one is much better. I've never seen so much variation which, again, makes it seem like the FM just can't pump out a strong enough signal. Not sure what's going on.

I ordered a second Framemeister to have on backup after this but I'd like to figure out the issue and keep this first one running.

[Guspaz]

You've discovered that, despite the kneejerk "It's all digital, the cable doesn't matter" stuff that many people espouse, in fact the quality of the HDMI cable actually does matter quite a bit.

The more bandwidth you're trying to shove down the cable (higher resolutions, stuff like deep colour, higher framerates, etc), and the longer you're trying to run the cable, the better cable you need. Better mainly in terms of how thick the conductors are.

If you need to run 15 feet and you're getting interference with your existing cable, try buying one with thicker conductors (like try a 26AWG instead of 28AWG), or try active cables that can do a better job pushing a signal down a thinner cable.

[Grimakis]

15ft isn't too long, but I've never used a cable that long.

Use a shorter cable if possible.

[Guspaz]

I've got multiple 40+ foot HDMI cables in my apartment. 15 feet isn't a problem unless not a highspeed cable or uses 28AWG or something.

[noonan2678]

For longer runs, use a cable with Redmere tech.

[dark1x]

Yeah, I'm pretty certain that something is broken on this Framemeister. Only very specific cables work and even some of the shorter ones exhibit issues. I've put in an order to get another one before they are all gone. It's still usable, I just have to stick with shorter cables (specific ones) so I've re-arranged my setup.

I fear the cause is simple - I often capture video from the Framemeister for the DF Retro series I've been making and tend to just hot-plug and unplug the HDMI cable (swap between TV and the capture switch). I've always used an HDMI port saver, to be fair, but perhaps this has caused issues long term? I dunno.

[TheShadowRunner]

Yeah, I'm pretty certain that something is broken on this Framemeister. Only very specific cables work and even some of the shorter ones exhibit issues. I've put in an order to get another one before they are all gone. It's still usable, I just have to stick with shorter cables (specific ones) so I've re-arranged my setup.

I fear the cause is simple - I often capture video from the Framemeister for the DF Retro series I've been making and tend to just hot-plug and unplug the HDMI cable (swap between TV and the capture switch). I've always used an HDMI port saver, to be fair, but perhaps this has caused issues long term? I dunno.

Frankly I'm not sure grabbing another unit is going to change anything.
I also experienced a weird issue on that front: one small cable (1.5m) wouldn't work at 1080p (black screen) but worked just fine at 720p. This exact cable works perfect at 1080p on everything else I tried it on (htpc, ps3/ps4). It seems the Mini is just picky when it comes to cables, somehow. This was tested making a direct connection to the HDTV too. On the other hand I've got a 12,5m HDMI cable that works perfect with the Mini!

[H6rdc0re]

Any chances Micomsoft will introduce new features through firmware updates?

[Shuco13]

Any chances Micomsoft will introduce new features through firmware updates?

Fudoh promised a long time ago that something would be "in the works". So far they didn't deliver and he's obviously not willing/interested in commenting on that anymore.

[Fudoh]

I'm not ? Micomsoft has an extensve report of all kinds of bugs and feature requests on hand and we regularly check back with them (on this and other projects) and the (one) guy in charge is committed, but obviously resources are very limited and Marvell's EOL announcement probably didn't help either. But even without any further FW upgrades, I see every bug report and feature request as a solid argument for a possible successor unit.

[Hoagtech]

Any chances Micomsoft will introduce new features through firmware updates?

Fudoh promised a long time ago that something would be "in the works". So far they didn't deliver and he's obviously not willing/interested in commenting on that anymore.

Who are you to point out Fudoh not doing something and why is he responsible when he has already "volunteered" countless hours of his time to share his findings?

He wants the features to work more than anyone and probably doesn't speak kanji and take multiple trips to Micomsoft to "drum up support"

Thanks fudoh

[H6rdc0re]

I'm not ? Micomsoft has an extensve report of all kinds of bugs and feature requests on hand and we regularly check back with them (on this and other projects) and the (one) guy in charge is committed, but obviously resources are very limited and Marvell's EOL announcement probably didn't help either. But even without any further FW upgrades, I see every bug report and feature request as a solid argument for a possible successor unit.

Any chance or possibility Micomsoft could fix 480p false contouring, add Smart X3/X4 modes and maybe even adding a mode not using the framebuffer for no inputlag? Micomsoft might be working on their successor and that's all fine and dandy but they should up their game with OSSC doing great things. OSSC is better than the Framemeister in all of things while it's half the price.

I wanted to try and contact Micomsoft but there's no way to do so besides some weird contact form on their website.

[leonk]

How about we request that they open source the firmware?? It's not like someone will be able to use it to make clones! The required IC is EOL!!

[Guspaz]

They may not legally be able to do so if their firmware contains code from the SDKs of any of the manufacturers of the ICs in there.

[Shuco13]

OSSC is better than the Framemeister in all of things while it's half the price.

When taking a look at your comment, at least the people who profit from the OSSC seem to do a much better marketing than micomsoft when it comes to promoting their product that's actually inferior to the FM in many ways (especially if you take a look at Fudoh's reviews which I appreciate very much by the way )

[FBX]

I still maintain the OSSC versus Framemeister is apples to oranges. I cannot hook up an OSSC to my display and get the same sharpness and features I get from the Framemeister. Until the OSSC can do full zoom control, masking, 1080p, 720p (standard format), etc, it will never be something I can replace the Framemeister with.

[paulb_nl]

Thats right. The Framemeister is usable on all hdmi displays while the OSSC needs a compatible monitor to unleash all its power.

With the advanced timing tweaker you can do all the zooming you want if your monitor supports it. The only thing I believe the Framemeister cannot do is horizontal pixel perfect mode?

[Xyga]

There's some uninformed criticism sometimes landing in this thread.

For Micomsoft, a small Japanese company manufacturing a product for Japan, marketing their product internationally is near impossible without serious ressources, it's already absolutely awesome that they're actually in contact with people from our community like Fudoh & Co and exchange information, even though from their perspective it's all import and shops nebula with foreign languages n'shit. I don't believe they have any obligation to give us so much support, yet they do.

As for Marqs and partners like Bucko for the OSSC, they are local western actors, of course they have much better presence here. Duh.

And plussing the two machines have different goals, remember the OSSC's first strenght is that it's a clean lag-free multiplier, when the Mini is a complete processor that can also do (excellent) deinterlacing, beating considerably more expensive processors like the DVDO at it.

[Thomago]

I don't believe they have any obligation to give us so much support, yet they do.

Do they actually? I got the impression that Micomsoft is pretty much deaf to outside input; otherwise many of the Framemeister's flaws should've been fixed years ago.

[Xyga]

I don't believe they have any obligation to give us so much support, yet they do.

Do they actually? I got the impression that Micomsoft is pretty much deaf to outside input; otherwise many of the Framemeister's flaws should've been fixed years ago.

I think Fudoh explained the situation well, they do, but that doesn't mean they can meet all expectations.

[ZellSF]

I don't believe they have any obligation to give us so much support, yet they do.

Do they actually? I got the impression that Micomsoft is pretty much deaf to outside input; otherwise many of the Framemeister's flaws should've been fixed years ago.

Are there many flaws we are certain can be fixed? Because some of them could easily be hardware limitations.

Edit: also IMO Micomsoft has done more in terms of post-release support and firmware updates than can be expected from most manufacturers.

[axlblazeadam]

Are there many flaws we are certain can be fixed? Because some of them could easily be hardware limitations.

More profiles on the SD card with longer filenames shouldn't be a problem i guess?

[Thomago]

Are there many flaws we are certain can be fixed? Because some of them could easily be hardware limitations.

I have no idea. Imho, good support entails honest communication (i.e. saying "We're sorry, but this can't be done due to hardware limitations."), but there's nothing.
Maybe there are hardware limitations, maybe there aren't, and Micomsoft just doesn't care. Due to the lack of communication I'm inclined to believe the latter.

[Lord of Pirates]

There's some uninformed criticism sometimes landing in this thread.

For Micomsoft, a small Japanese company manufacturing a product for Japan, marketing their product internationally is near impossible without serious ressources, it's already absolutely awesome that they're actually in contact with people from our community like Fudoh & Co and exchange information, even though from their perspective it's all import and shops nebula with foreign languages n'shit. I don't believe they have any obligation to give us so much support, yet they do.

As for Marqs and partners like Bucko for the OSSC, they are local western actors, of course they have much better presence here. Duh.

And plussing the two machines have different goals, remember the OSSC's first strenght is that it's a clean lag-free multiplier, when the Mini is a complete processor that can also do (excellent) deinterlacing, beating considerably more expensive processors like the DVDO at it.

Has anyone ever done a direct comparison for non-game content? The Mini is fine and dandy when it comes to games but it doesn't seem well featured as a general purpose processor. As far as having no obligation goes, a customer is a customer, finding someone with mild proficiency in English can't be that hard.

[Thomago]

Has anyone ever done a direct comparison for non-game content? The Mini is fine and dandy when it comes to games but it doesn't seem well featured as a general purpose processor.

I used the Mini quite a lot for watching TV with a set top box. Quality was kind of lackluster due to the Mini's heavy low pass filter and its low quality upscaling. Deinterlacing however was top notch!

[Xyga]

Has anyone ever done a direct comparison for non-game content? The Mini is fine and dandy when it comes to games but it doesn't seem well featured as a general purpose processor.

Dunno I've only been thinking about games naturally.

As far as having no obligation goes, a customer is a customer, finding someone with mild proficiency in English can't be that hard.

But we're not their direct customers, we buy from shops exporting their stuff and that certainly don't have as much obligations to do customer support outside of Japan than what's up to their 'personal' customer satisfaction policy (exchange, refund or reaching to Micomsoft for repairs in the very best cases) or PayPal's terms when valid.

Micomsoft might be the same but from even further away, they care about their reputation and customers returns even from outside Japan as much as they're willing to...and can afford.
I don't think it's that simple nor exactly cheap for a small Japanese company to hire someone just for talking with their 'unofficial customers' outside of Japan, 'services' like Degica are a thing and a minimum type of structure at this level of entrepreneurship, I'm guessing, but we're not talking about the same world here, it's not exclusively software/games for PC.

[Lord of Pirates]

Does Micomsoft offer direct sales? Have they made announcements on their website about FW status? I realize it's all fairly moot at this point but, some of the points mentioned recently aren't entirely without merit.

Edit: Just so it's clear, I'm honestly asking about this stuff. I don't have a Mini and don't follow it closely.