NESRGB New Firmware Palette Updates:

[tjstogy]

I can't friggin wait for your accurate composite CRT to RGB CRT palette, FBX. (also looking forward to RGBsource's comments on how it sucks, and then watch him not contribute a single thing afterwards except negativity)

Arcade card on its way!

I can hardly wait to set this up on the PVM. Should make for some interesting results.

[PascalP]

My NESRGB (currently still on unsaturated-v5) and NEC XM29 are ready for your new pallettes!

[Tatsuya79]

I wonder: do so-called "HDR" TV and those with a complete RGB coverage do a greater job with current palettes like Nostalgia/Nescap (that they look similar to a crt)?
Or would they need a different palette again?

[austin532]

Here are a few more comparison pics between purple and blue. These do not use the same purple sky as SMB but you can clearly tell the difference the two make. Again Nostalgia FBX on the left and CRT Nostalgia beta on the right.

Deja Vu



The Flintstones: The Rescue of Dino & Hoppy



Gargoyle's Quest II



Adventure Island II

[FBX]

The CRT palette will be scrapped when I get the arcade card hooked up to the PVM after it arrives. Instead of trying to approximate the colors using an LCD, this time around will be PVM screen versus the same PVM screen, and that should really improve authenticity.

Edit: Although I am in the process of working on a mimic PVM for LCD users, so not abandoning that end of things just yet.

[SmokeMonster]

Incredible work, FBX. Your pallettes are stunning.

[copy]

On a side note, I just ordered some of those NESRGB JTAG Adapters from OSH Park. Had I known they were that cheap ($2.40 for three shipped!) I would've made an account there much sooner.

Sorry, might be a dumb question but do the OSH Jtag adapters come populated with the connector and pins or do you have to do that yourself?

nakedarthur: Not sure if you ever got a reply, but I ordered the adapters too, and can confirm they are only the unpopulated boards.

I found suitable pin connectors at my local Fry's and soldered them in. Now I just need that new firmware release.

[nakedarthur]

On a side note, I just ordered some of those NESRGB JTAG Adapters from OSH Park. Had I known they were that cheap ($2.40 for three shipped!) I would've made an account there much sooner.

Sorry, might be a dumb question but do the OSH Jtag adapters come populated with the connector and pins or do you have to do that yourself?

nakedarthur: Not sure if you ever got a reply, but I ordered the adapters too, and can confirm they are only the unpopulated boards.

I found suitable pin connectors at my local Fry's and soldered them in. Now I just need that new firmware release.

My bad, I actually figured it out and forgot to reply. For anyone interested, first read the info HD Retrovision's site about it (scroll down to bottom). It explains how to use the "factory" variant which basically doesn't require any soldering on your NESRGB, just the Jtag adapter. You need to order 2 parts from digikey or wherever as well:

header | square-post | 0.100" pitch | 2x5-pin | male | shrouded
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/e ... ND/2178422

header | square-post | 0.100" pitch | 1x6-pin | male
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/e ... ND/1101221

[FBX]

Arcade card should be arriving Monday or Tuesday according to tracking.

In the mean time, I spent the past couple of nights working on a "PVM to Digital" palette. This is for flat panel digital display users that want to get an idea of what the NES generally looks like on a PVM (or at least my PVM that is). It's still a beta work in progress, but most of the colors are locked in as close as I can get:

http://www.firebrandx.com/downloads/PVM ... beta01.zip


The CRT effort is scrapped because quite honestly, I'm having a lot more interest and fun in working with the PVM than I did my old CRT. And yes, the PVM reproduces the critical SMB sky with a very tiny hint of purple, which I reflected in the "PVM to Digital" palette. Here's a couple of snaps of the palette in action:













Anyone with a PVM and NTSC NES hooked up to it in composite, feel free to compare it on your end and let me know of any game screens that look off. A couple of the colors I ran into the usual 'cannot be reproduced on an LCD screen', so I got as close as I could.

[austin532]

One thing I find interesting and l'd like to point out is Super Mario Maker (which was created by a few of the original SMB staff) also has a purplish sky. Meaning it was probably meant to be that way in the original game.

[Tatsuya79]

And so it became known as the blurple obsession.

[Guspaz]

I thought we had settled that debate when Miyamoto discussed in detail why he chose a purplish sky?

[FBX]

I thought we had settled that debate when Miyamoto discussed in detail why he chose a purplish sky?

It's not really a debate so much as crappy CRTs couldn't handle showing the proper color, so most people have a nostalgia spot for what they remember. However, I'm enthralled with the PVM color output, and spending more time today on beta 2. I've just about got all the colors squared away, and have just been browsing the library of games to make sure everything looks kosher.

Interestingly as evidenced by direct captures, the PVM also shows that the NES does not have a straight red. It uses a 'half-orange' weighted red color for the approximation. I remember getting some complaints about that half orange business, but it really is that way on real hardware. Example in Castlevania on stage 2, the stairs use the half orange color, while the background bricks use the slight purplish red color. One complaint I got was "why are the stairs orange". Well, that's exactly how they show up on the PVM too!

[The_Atomik_Punk!]

Can you do me a favour and check the below examples in your beta2, just to get an idea as to where the blue/purple balance is at in DDII (I'd imagine based on the SMB1 sky, definitely more purplish), and those Faxanadu screens (cyan balance)? For my tastes, I love how DDII looks on the left (Unsaturated V5), but I greatly prefer (and it seems closer to composite) on the right for Faxanadu in the defunct CRT Nostalgia.

I'm currently still using Unsaturated V5 on a consumer grade CRT (Sony Trinitron); seeing as the CRT palette has been scrapped, do you recommend this PVM to digital palette for those of us not using PVMs or digital displays (i.e regular CRTs)?





The biggest improvement that I came across is the background sky when you take control f the protagonist in Faxanadu. In all previous palette versions, the sky was still brighter/greener than what I am seeing on my CRT through composite- this looks great with CRT Nostalgia (Unsaturated V5 Left, CRT Nostalgia Right):

[austin532]

So far after testing the beta it seems like the colors have a warmer look to them. This is obvious with the 1st stage from Castlevania. Is this how they look on PVM's? Nostalgia left and PVM to Digital beta on right.

[Guspaz]

The grey walls look a bit yellowish there... That's not how I remember things looking on my PVM...

[FBX]

Yes the warm look is accurate. CRTs (and even PVMs) have that look by default.

However, if there's a majority negative reaction to it, I can make the greys cold.

[cruzlink2]

Great work firebrand, I feel like the composite palette based on a PVM or BVM is not a good reference point for a nostalgic composite palette. None of us were rich enough to own a pvm/bvm during the time the nes was out originaly, we all had consumer grade crts. The reason I say this is because no way can a normal CRT television can look as good as a PVM/BVM displaying composite video, the professional monitors have way more circuitry to filter the composite video input. Also the phosphor on the PVM/BVM are better quality, maybe I am just talking out of my ass and if I am dismiss me .

[FBX]

ArcadeVGA card arrived today, so I'll start installing it later today and get to work on the "Digital to PVM" palette. Now obviously this palette will be designed for use on CRTs, so keep that in mind when beta testing is ready.

Great work firebrand, I feel like the composite palette based on a PVM or BVM is not a good reference point for a nostalgic composite palette. None of us were rich enough to own a pvm/bvm during the time the nes was out originaly, we all had consumer grade crts. The reason I say this is because no way can a normal CRT television can look as good as a PVM/BVM displaying composite video, the professional monitors have way more circuitry to filter the composite video input. Also the phosphor on the PVM/BVM are better quality, maybe I am just talking out of my ass and if I am dismiss me .

The problem is it's impossible to get a universal CRT palette that everyone can agree on. At least with the PVM, I can fine-tune it with cross-referencing. I'm only on beta 02 at the moment, so just give it a chance and I think it will work out. I'm going to make some changes in saturation and brightness to tone it down a bit for LCD displays, and I'll keep working on the grey tones.

[Yamato]

The grey walls look a bit yellowish there... That's not how I remember things looking on my PVM...

Yes, it's too yellowish. I played some Castlevania today on my BVM 20F1E. The colors are definitely more like on the left picture (Nostalgia palette), although on the BVM they are just a tiny bit warmer. Definitely not THAT much like on the right side picture. I had my consumer Sony Trinitron right next to it simultaneously where the colors were a bit colder.

[FBX]

Okay I will tone it down to a cooler grey. Also I've got the arcade card on hand, but I've got to raid tonight and tomorrow night in Warcraft, so I will install it after tomorrow nights raid.

[yxkalle]

If your greys looks like that I think your monitor needs calibration.

[FBX]

If your greys looks like that I think your monitor needs calibration.

It's just an eyeballing attempt. I wanted it to show warm greys on the LCD, but too much is too much and I will tone it down.

[FBX]

Beta 2 is ready for testing:

http://www.firebrandx.com/downloads/PVM ... beta02.zip

I'll also be installing the Arcade card tonight in order to start the reverse process.

[austin532]

Broken link.

[Tatsuya79]

Working link.

I feel it's too subjective. I prefer the direct capture ones.

[austin532]

While it's an improvement I still think the Nostalgia FBX direct capture looks better. Retro games look better at a hotter temperature of 93K or at least a neutral around 78K.

[FBX]

While it's an improvement I still think the Nostalgia FBX direct capture looks better. Retro games look better at a hotter temperature of 93K or at least a neutral around 78K.

That doesn't really help me. I need examples of what you think PVM should look like. Also @ Tatsuya79, it's supposed to be subjective by its very nature. Instead of direct capture, this palette is intended to mimic the screen of a PVM, and like it or not , it's much closer to what my PVM is showing compared to direct capture. I'll show some examples below where the left PVM palette is more accurate to PVM than the direct capture on the right:














In every one of these examples, the left image much more closely matches my PVM screen.

[nakedarthur]

Looking awesome man! Definitely much closer to what I was seeing on my PVM with composite. The feeling of a CRT in general is that everything is much brighter, and there's not such a huge difference between mid-tones and highlights. You can see this reflected in the floor tiles in Zelda, the characters arms and faces on the Contra menu, and the bricks in Super Mario.

[PascalP]

Yup, the left ones look perfectly fine to me!