Cloning the Gamecube component cable

[vinnyguy]

Citrus3000psi has said a number if times that he does gc-video installs. I saw he has a modding services thread on the assembler forums.

The other option is to install a Pluto board yourself. You don't even have to program the FPGA yourself, you can buy it preprogrammed with gc-video DVI. Grab a soldering iron! Get yourself an HDMI gamecube already! This was the most difficult soldering project I ever undertook, the game pad via was the hardest point to solder(and I got it) but the rest was totally doable.

Gc-video is great, the Scan line feature is great, 240p over HDMI on my plasma is great. I hope more people have their own HDMI gamecube soon so this thread can be about how awesome gc-video is, not how frustrating it is.

[Ikaruga11]

Citrus3000psi has said a number if times that he does gc-video installs. I saw he has a modding services thread on the assembler forums.

The other option is to install a Pluto board yourself. You don't even have to program the FPGA yourself, you can buy it preprogrammed with gc-video DVI. Grab a soldering iron! Get yourself an HDMI gamecube already! This was the most difficult soldering project I ever undertook, the game pad via was the hardest point to solder(and I got it) but the rest was totally doable.

Gc-video is great, the Scan line feature is great, 240p over HDMI on my plasma is great. I hope more people have their own HDMI gamecube soon so this thread can be about how awesome gc-video is, not how frustrating it is.

Sounds good. Thing is I've never soldered before.

I'm not sure about playing the GameCube on an LCD/Plasma/OLED screen. I'd rather play on a CRT, so I'm not sure how beneficial HDMI would be over the official/modded component cables on a CRT.

[bobrocks95]

Citrus3000psi has said a number if times that he does gc-video installs. I saw he has a modding services thread on the assembler forums.

The other option is to install a Pluto board yourself. You don't even have to program the FPGA yourself, you can buy it preprogrammed with gc-video DVI. Grab a soldering iron! Get yourself an HDMI gamecube already! This was the most difficult soldering project I ever undertook, the game pad via was the hardest point to solder(and I got it) but the rest was totally doable.

Gc-video is great, the Scan line feature is great, 240p over HDMI on my plasma is great. I hope more people have their own HDMI gamecube soon so this thread can be about how awesome gc-video is, not how frustrating it is.

I sent Citrus a PM, his mods seem very reasonably-priced. It's been so long that I'm not itching to get my Gamecube modded anymore, I've got tons of games to be playing right now, but I don't think badass has earned my money at all.

Sounds good. Thing is I've never soldered before.

I'm not sure about playing the GameCube on an LCD/Plasma/OLED screen. I'd rather play on a CRT, so I'm not sure how beneficial HDMI would be over the official/modded component cables on a CRT.

Well, I wouldn't start with the Pluto board as your first soldering project. And considering the HDMI mod would be 2 colorspace conversions as opposed to 1 with component cables, I don't see how it would look better. Even if it does the cost is prohibitive for how marginal it would be (unless you want to sell your official component cables).

[Guspaz]

Why two? The GCVideo-DVI would convert to RGB, and then... that's it?

[bobrocks95]

Why two? The GCVideo-DVI would convert to RGB, and then... that's it?

Presumably if you're using HDMI on a CRT you'd need to convert to analog YPbPr. But I think GeneralLight has an RGB monitor so I guess it would just be 1 colorspace conversion, but still wouldn't provide any benefits.

[Guspaz]

HDMI on a CRT doesn't really make sense... If you were going to use GCVideo on a CRT, you'd want to use GCVideo Lite and not require additional hardware to do the digital-to-analog conversion.

[vinnyguy]

Well, I wouldn't start with the Pluto board as your first soldering project. And considering the HDMI mod would be 2 colorspace conversions as opposed to 1 with component cables, I don't see how it would look better. Even if it does the cost is prohibitive for how marginal it would be (unless you want to sell your official component cables).

The Pluto HDMI board costs $70 shipped. I've considered building gc-video lite going by unseen's github plans. That would require buying 3 of the unpopulated pcb's from oshpark (sold in quantities of 3) and then all of the components to complete it. Then I'd have to learn how to program the FPGA. Who is selling gc-video lite builds at the moment? How much does one sell for? I can't believe the claim that the gc-video DVI is much more cost prohibitive than gc-video lite.

[vinnyguy]

Assuming badass consoles sets the pricing standard for gc-video lite boards...
Ez-pack analog is $72 shipped, and that's install it yourself. Same cost as a DIY Pluto HDMI install.

[Guspaz]

You'd need to add the cost of an external HDMI-to-component or HDMI-to-RGB transcoder, though. If you're talking about 480p on a CRT, if you're doing RGB, you'd probably want an HDMI-to-VGA converter. A good one is $90, a cheap one is $6.

[bobrocks95]

Well, I wouldn't start with the Pluto board as your first soldering project. And considering the HDMI mod would be 2 colorspace conversions as opposed to 1 with component cables, I don't see how it would look better. Even if it does the cost is prohibitive for how marginal it would be (unless you want to sell your official component cables).

The Pluto HDMI board costs $70 shipped. I've considered building gc-video lite going by unseen's github plans. That would require buying 3 of the unpopulated pcb's from oshpark (sold in quantities of 3) and then all of the components to complete it. Then I'd have to learn how to program the FPGA. Who is selling gc-video lite builds at the moment? How much does one sell for? I can't believe the claim that the gc-video DVI is much more cost prohibitive than gc-video lite.

Cost prohibitive in that GeneralLight already has component cables, so he'd be adding on $70+ for GCVideo, soldering work to do, and whatever the cost of the HDMI converter for... Absolutely nothing I'm pretty sure.

[citrus3000psi]

Yes I am doing installs of my design. Cost is $110 installed, hdmi mini cable is also included.

So you could say boards are $65 and the install is $45 if I had to break them apart. But I'm not currently in the business of selling populated boards. I'm waiting on a batch of 10 Xilinx chips to come in.

Right now I've just been buying cubes and modding them, I've sold 6 or so like this. I've only had one person actually send me there gamecube so far.

[Ikaruga11]

But I think GeneralLight has an RGB monitor so I guess it would just be 1 colorspace conversion

I don't have an RGB monitor yet, but I'll be getting one within the next 6 months. Just planning ahead for what I need.

but still wouldn't provide any benefits.

Right. Even though HDMI is a lossless digital signal, you still need to convert that digital signal to an analog signal in order to use it on a CRT, which will introduce the same amount of image loss, if not more, than what the official component cable's DAC chip does.

HDMI on a CRT doesn't really make sense... If you were going to use GCVideo on a CRT, you'd want to use GCVideo Lite and not require additional hardware to do the digital-to-analog conversion.

Alright. In that case, how does GCVideo Lite (analog version) compare to the official component cables? I've read that GCVideo Lite allows for C-Sync instead of just Sync-on-Luma, but that only applies for RGB SCART and not YPbPr though, right?

Can you guys rank these conversions in terms of most input lag (3rd) to least input lag (1st)?

De-interlacing
Upscaling
Digital-to-Analog

And what about picture quality? Which of those conversions do the most and least amount of damage to the image quality?

Ideally, I want to avoid all of them, but I'd like to get a general understanding of the severity between each of them so I can understand what I'm working with here.

[lechu]

If anyone wants to ask Mega about the GCVideo, he's streaming on Twitch tonight. He typically answers questions asked in the chat.

[bobrocks95]

Alright. In that case, how does GCVideo Lite (analog version) compare to the official component cables? I've read that GCVideo Lite allows for C-Sync instead of just Sync-on-Luma, but that only applies for RGB SCART and not YPbPr though, right?

You've asked that several times as I recall- I think in the end you'll just have to get both and do a direct comparison for yourself.

Can you guys rank these conversions in terms of most input lag (3rd) to least input lag (1st)?

De-interlacing
Upscaling
Digital-to-Analog

And what about picture quality? Which of those conversions do the most and least amount of damage to the image quality?

Depends, but probably de-interlacing is the slowest, though there is a fast method (bob and I think another) that is basically lagless. Context is needed to say beyond that- what exactly are you getting at with the question? If you're playing regular Gamecube games of course 480p is preferred over interlaced- beyond that I'm not sure what you want to know. If you're trying to decide between two setup scenarios just list them both.

If anyone wants to ask Mega about the GCVideo, he's streaming on Twitch tonight. He typically answers questions asked in the chat.

Well, at this point all I could ask him about is how quickly he typically responds to refund requests... That's not a very productive question though.

[Woozle]

Yes I am doing installs of my design. Cost is $110 installed, hdmi mini cable is also included.

So you could say boards are $65 and the install is $45 if I had to break them apart. But I'm not currently in the business of selling populated boards. I'm waiting on a batch of 10 Xilinx chips to come in.

Right now I've just been buying cubes and modding them, I've sold 6 or so like this. I've only had one person actually send me there gamecube so far.

I ordered a set of your most recent Gamecube HDMI boards from Oshpark and had a few questions. What programmer should I use to program the FPGA, and what is the package for the XC3S50A FPGA?

I'll probably assemble all three, hopefully I'll have some extras.

[citrus3000psi]

I ordered a set of your most recent Gamecube HDMI boards from Oshpark and had a few questions. What programmer should I use to program the FPGA, and what is the package for the XC3S50A FPGA?

I'll probably assemble all three, hopefully I'll have some extras.

Which boards are you using? There are two designs. One for the XC3S200A and one for the XC3S50A.

Also check out my thread. http://assemblergames.com/l/threads/gam ... ead.63129/

I've organized it recently so its much easier to follow.

[BuckoA51]

Interesting, maybe it's time to throw in the towel with the HDMI board we've been trying to get working and just buy your boards instead?

[Seraphic]

Well folks, I got an update on the GCVideo from BAC himself from his twitch stream tonight.
I asked him the question and he gave an answer as follows after spending "several thousand dollars" during this process:

So basically, he had submitted an order with "Company A" which came back defective. The female rep from the company did not want admit they messed up at first, but finally does and he requests the required information to setup a reprint. So some time goes by and he does not hear from them, so he contacts them for an update. And he was told the female rep no long works for the company and the new male rep can only approve a reprint of two of the six designs, but only after they receive them back. He sends them back, tracking shows they were delivered, but company says they never received it and that they moved to a new building.

Now he goes to "Company B" to setup a new printing and sends them the designs. Last he heard from them was Dec 20th, and they have about a 10day turn around. He is assuming they started printing the boards. However, he said he should have heard from by now but they have not contacted him. So his plan is to send them an e-mail this coming Monday (9th) and request an status update.

He said he would give me my money back if I wanted and lose my place in line or some "people" just open a paypal dispute and he refunds the money without disputing. I guess I will give him some more time to see if he can get the ball rolling. But it sounds like it is going to take awhile longer. And he said no preference of DIY vs Install Service, it's based on your order number.

PS: I mentioned this forum/thread (about customers wondering what is going on) and he said "people on some website" while answering the question, lol. Guess he has never been here.

[bobrocks95]

I do hope BAC can get his problems worked out, I'm sure he's banked a lot on GCVideo given his investment so far and it's not like anyone wants the guy to go bankrupt or anything. That said, it still sucks that this was only shared via Twitch; I think the general sentiment in this thread is that a write-up was needed a while back, even a simple one.

In the meantime I got a refund from BAC and bought a pre-modded cube from citrus3000psi. Whenever it comes in I'm sure I'll post some pics and give a glowing review.

My only lingering concern is if my plasma will mind the video signal, but it lists both "480/60p" (with a 27.00MHz dot clock) and "640x480 @ 60Hz" (25.17MHz dot clock) as input resolutions in the manual for the DVI input card.
Can Unseen or anyone else tell me if the 27MHz dot clock corresponds to the 720x480p the Gamecube would output?

[Seraphic]

In the meantime I got a refund from BAC and bought a pre-modded cube from citrus3000psi.

What did you do to get your refund? Just wondering.
I have until March to open a PayPal dispute so I will give him a little more time.

[bobrocks95]

I opened a Paypal dispute, which I guess wasn't the nicest way to go about it ("people" in quotations doesn't exactly sound like a positive impression lol). He was very prompt with the refund though, props for that.

[BuckoA51]

I'm amazed Paypal haven't blocked him already. Doesn't usually take much

[bobrocks95]

I'm amazed Paypal haven't blocked him already. Doesn't usually take much

Oh damn, I thought Paypal only had issue with disputes when you raised the status. This was resolved at the "send the seller a message" level- please just email him if it's likely to cause his Paypal to get removed.

[Ikaruga11]

I'd like to know something.

So obviously, a GameCube modded to output HDMI (GCVideo) is the best way to play on digital displays such as LCDs, Plasmas, OLEDs, etc. Since they have HDMI ports and HDMI is a lossless digital signal, no digital-to-analog conversion is ever done at any point, preventing any lag or information loss. Also GCVideo having great upscaling and a plethora of firmware features such as scanline generation, forcing 480p, etc. Pretty simple and straightforward.

Now what about playing a GameCube on an analog display such as a CRT? What is the optimal signal for playing on CRTs? I would say HDMI again because it's a lossless signal, but it has to be converted to analog in order to be displayed on a CRT. The HDMI cable simply delays the inevitable conversion. So begs the question: how do high-end DACs compare to the DAC chip inside the official component cables?

On consumer CRT TVs, it makes sense that the official component cables are the best option for models that have component inputs. For PAL region CRTs, RGB SCART might be the best (in tandem with a PAL Cube)? And for older or lower end TVs, S-Video, Composite or even RF (absolute last resort) might be the best connection if those are all that's available on those particular models.

Now PC CRTs typically have just VGA connectors. I'm guessing it would be better to mod the official component cables to output VGA than to convert them via transcoders to VGA?

Onto PVMs and BVMs, which are the most complicated. Assuming a PVM or BVM can display both RGB and YPbPr natively, what would be superior:

a) The official component cables
b) The official component cables modded to output RGB or RGBHV (VGA).

I apologize for regurgitating the same questions over and over again. I'd just like to get a definitive and crystal-clear answer on the optimal signal for CRTs and I thought this thread would be better to ask than the "Questions that do not Deserve a Thread" thread.

[BuckoA51]

Oh damn, I thought Paypal only had issue with disputes when you raised the status. This was resolved at the "send the seller a message" level- please just email him if it's likely to cause his Paypal to get removed.

Nobody really knows what or why Paypal single out certain people and completely ignore others. If you use them for a business like this it's just a lottery as to if and when they'll lock your account basically, yet you get sellers selling modded PS3 consoles on eBay for months and nothing gets done.

Ditching them in favour of Stripe was the best decision I ever made

[Extrems]

Can Unseen or anyone else tell me if the 27MHz dot clock corresponds to the 720x480p the Gamecube would output?

The GameCube/Wii only support 13.5 MHz (SDTV) and 27 MHz (EDTV).

Since they have HDMI ports and HDMI is a lossless digital signal, no digital-to-analog conversion is ever done at any point, preventing any lag or information loss.

YCbCr to RGB conversion is lossy, and your display/sink could potentially do higher quality conversion than GCVideo DVI.

[Ikaruga11]

YCbCr to RGB conversion is lossy

Makes sense. There's already a digital-to-analog conversion going on. The RGB mod just introduces a color space conversion on top of that. I saw this video on YouTube and it looked really tempting. https://youtu.be/PmhezQOY69M

and your display/sink could potentially do higher quality conversion than GCVideo DVI.

What do you mean by this? I don't understand what you're saying.

[Seraphic]

In the meantime I got a refund from BAC and bought a pre-modded cube from citrus3000psi.

Did you receive it yet? Can you post a picture of the rear of the GC? Interested to see if his mod removes the Digital port.

[citrus3000psi]

In the meantime I got a refund from BAC and bought a pre-modded cube from citrus3000psi.

Did you receive it yet? Can you post a picture of the rear of the GC? Interested to see if his mod removes the Digital port.

It does not remove the port.

[leonk]

As far as I understand it, DVI + audio + HDCP = HDMI. Why do all the docs call this DVI and not HDMI? Is it because HDCP is missing?