OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

[Blair]

@Guspaz and @marqs

The sync problems I had with the WII seem to have resolved, I've replaced my Wii with another model (this time running Wii firmware 4.3, instead of 3.2) not sure what the change was that solved the issue but seems to be working now with my setup.

here's a shot of the Wii outputting in component video running RA-wii (Sega core), 240p into the OSSC (line double+scanlines) then into the vp50pro with some negative edge enhancement and detail enhancement (also gamma adjustment), gives it a really Bloomy kind of arcade feel (or at least that's how my nostalgic memories of arcade machines look).




Wii without Scanlines and vp50pro EE-/DE+, isolated capture (for comparison)

[Xyga]

Indeed the vp50pro's EE/DE are near-eyegasmic additions to the OSSC's perfect linetripling.
The only problem being when you start tweaking those you just never stop, always seeking the optimal look for every source. :p

[NJRoadfan]

These details reveal number of scanlines outputted (21.89 kHz/54.19 Hz = 404), but lack pixel clock frequency which would be needed for calculating optimal H.samplerate. I guess there's a limited set of possible pixel clocks these special modes may use instead of a fully-programmable clock like in GPUs.

Not sure if pixel clock can be found from the user adjustable settings, there are sliders for "Total Clocks" and "Total Rows" in addition to sync and porch settings, but their values are integers which probably do not tell much unless you know how the monitor drivers do work? But does that even matter? When I output checkerboard pattern and fiddle with H. samplerate it is obvious for everybody which value is the correct. If it's off even by one, you get very noticeable vertical banding whilst when it's spot on then every single pixel is sharp as razor.

The formulas here might be of help: http://arachnoid.com/modelines/

It claims that dot clock can be calculated as follows: Refresh rate * HTotal * VTotal = Dot-Clock

HTotal and VTotal are going to be greater than the actual display video resolution on the Amiga to account for any overscan border + blanking interval.

I'm running into the same problem with the DVI2PCIe frame grabber and custom video modes on various sources, which has similar settings to the OSSC.

[broken]

In case anyone is interested, I posted up a first look/initial thoughts video on the OSSC on my Youtube channel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsXw9IAA-rY


I plan to do a proper review later on once I have had more time with the device. Especially with retro computers like the MSX, Amiga and Atari ST. And I also have an X68000 so I wouldn't mind seeing how that fares with it.

[BuckoA51]

here's a shot of the Wii outputting in component video running RA-wii (Sega core), 240p into the OSSC (line double+scanlines) then into the vp50pro with some negative edge enhancement and detail enhancement (also gamma adjustment), gives it a really Bloomy kind of arcade feel (or at least that's how my nostalgic memories of arcade machines look).

Looks pretty nice, how much EE/DE are you applying?

[Blair]

Indeed the vp50pro's EE/DE are near-eyegasmic additions to the OSSC's perfect linetripling.
The only problem being when you start tweaking those you just never stop, always seeking the optimal look for every source. :p

yep, that's definitely true. I mess around with all of the video processors settings way too much, I should probably spend more time playing games than trying to push out just a little more pixel magic.

(although in some ways, that's a good 25% of the fun in this hobby)

In case anyone is interested, I posted up a first look/initial thoughts video on the OSSC on my Youtube channel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsXw9IAA-rY.

nice video! I would love to see what the sharp x68000 looks like.

Looks pretty nice, how much EE/DE are you applying?

thanks!

forgot where I put my notepad down ( been trying to keep track of all the wacky settings and combinations I've been testing out lately until I settle on my final OSSC rigg), I believe EE-68 and DE-25 are the settings I used that night on the Wii (note that RA-Wii also has its own set of internal filters/overlays that can be used for some other neat effects. but for this screenshot I had all of those off).

if I can get some time today i'll post some shots of the Wii playing CPS2 games (outputting 384x224p), looks really nice with line triple. (plays x-men versus Street fighter even better than the Saturn version!)

there's also quite a few PSP games I would like to try the OSSC with. (any requests?)

[arovane]

I mess around with all of the video processors settings way too much, I should probably spend more time playing games than trying to push out just a little more pixel magic.

(although in some ways, that's a good 25% of the fun in this hobby)

25%? I'd say at least 75%

[ZellSF]

If you think endlessly adjusting settings is fun you should get into PC gaming. There's always some way to get a game to run slightly better to distract you from actually playing the game

[Thomago]

That's is my eternal curse.

[Guspaz]

Something something weird European tax law: it's been announced that the OSSC price is going to be reduced by 20% for the next batch. Kind of sucks that we prior customers got hit by the full price, but that's the way it goes..

[Galdelico]

Something something weird European tax law: it's been announced that the OSSC price is going to be reduced by 20% for the next batch. Kind of sucks that we prior customers got hit by the full price, but that's the way it goes..

Overseas buyers will have to deal with customs fees, I guess? Since it would be impossible to ship 'as gift', now. Or not?

[CobraKing]

Something something weird European tax law: it's been announced that the OSSC price is going to be reduced by 20% for the next batch. Kind of sucks that we prior customers got hit by the full price, but that's the way it goes..

Did you get hit with customs though? I'm in Ontario and I didn't. I remember ordering some computer parts from the UK way back in 2004 and getting slammed with customs that were damn near 100% the value of the parts I ordered.

[Guspaz]

I often do, but Canada Post didn't add any fees to the OSSC.

[arovane]

I'm in Norway and had to pay over 25% of the total incl. shipping because Norway isn't in the EU. That was hard to swallow, but the OSSC is nice enough so it's ok I guess.

[Mikeyy00]

I often do, but Canada Post didn't add any fees to the OSSC.

You were lucky. :d I had to pay $23 in duty when mine arrived.. (Alberta)

[BuckoA51]

Overseas buyers will have to deal with customs fees, I guess? Since it would be impossible to ship 'as gift', now. Or not?

Basically I can now buy them and not pay VAT (purchase tax). Since VAT only applies to the EU, I don't have to charge it for any parcels going out of EU. You will still have to pay import/border fees, you're just not paying them on top of the EU purchase tax I used to have to pay as well. Usually Canada is really strict on import tax, maybe it's their new deal with the EU but I doubt it (didn't think that came in yet anyway). Norway/Switzerland have the best deal we can hope for after leaving and my customers there still get stung for import tax on a regular basis.

[1moment]

I often do, but Canada Post didn't add any fees to the OSSC.

You were lucky. :d I had to pay $23 in duty when mine arrived.. (Alberta)

There's people in Alberta doing upscaling and RGB?!?! I thought I was alone...

[NJRoadfan]

Regarding the console modding and VAT, see what AmigaKit does for their board repairs. Going by their packing directions when you send a board in for repair from overseas, they state to mark the customs form "Computer Parts for Repair". There must be a procedure someone in the laws they are following to ensure non-EU citizens are not paying VAT for repairs.

[ZellSF]

Overseas buyers will have to deal with customs fees, I guess? Since it would be impossible to ship 'as gift', now. Or not?

Basically I can now buy them and not pay VAT (purchase tax). Since VAT only applies to the EU, I don't have to charge it for any parcels going out of EU. You will still have to pay import/border fees, you're just not paying them on top of the EU purchase tax I used to have to pay as well. Usually Canada is really strict on import tax, maybe it's their new deal with the EU but I doubt it (didn't think that came in yet anyway). Norway/Switzerland have the best deal we can hope for after leaving and my customers there still get stung for import tax on a regular basis.

Norwegians need to actually declare a product is being sent out for repair/modding and even then they have to pay import taxes on any charges for work done and shipping (just not the actual device again) unless it's less than 350 NOK (about 35 GBP) in total.

[BuckoA51]

Yeah, why the f**k we want to be like Norway instead of full EU members I don't know, mind you listening to some of the retarded reasons some folks gave for voting to leave the EU I don't think they have the slightest clue what it will mean. Really is depressing trying to run a business here right now.

[Fudoh]

on other news: yesterday I read that the European commission is considering to reduce the 22 EUR* import value threshold (VAT exemption for small consignments) to 0 EUR, meaning that every mini parcel from non-EUR countries would have to be delivered to the customs office instead of getting delivererd to your home adress. This would be insane and almost kill international orders. And it's a stupid sign as well, especially since the EU has raised the threshold for customs fees (not VAT) to 150 EUR several years ago in the attempt for make imports easier and the INCREASE the numbers for international ordering.

(*I know that some few EU Countries, have lower thresholds already. Denmark for example)

[Thomago]

Aw jeez

[BuckoA51]

I suppose they assume a lot of small businesses falsify customs forms? Really I don't have that much issue paying VAT, but you have to consider for smaller businesses you're paying it on top of the sales tax they already paid, plus the post office always slaps a handling fee on top of any import tax you're charged.

You could write to your MEP, I'd write to mine but I believe they're UKIP, so that means they barely bother to show up at all let alone pay attention to what's actually happening.

[Galdelico]

on other news: yesterday I read that the European commission is considering to reduce the 22 EUR* import value threshold (VAT exemption for small consignments) to 0 EUR, meaning that every mini parcel from non-EUR countries would have to be delivered to the customs office instead of getting delivererd to your home adress. This would be insane and almost kill international orders. And it's a stupid sign as well, especially since the EU has raised the threshold for customs fees (not VAT) to 150 EUR several years ago in the attempt for make imports easier and the INCREASE the numbers for international ordering.

(*I know that some few EU Countries, have lower thresholds already. Denmark for example)

I don't want to derail the thread - apologies in advance - but I guess this is already happening, here in Italy.
Every time I track my packages from Japan, I always see them landing, sitting at customs for 4/7 days, and finally getting delivered to my door. This doesn't mean they get automatically hit by customs fees, though, as in two years of pretty much constant importing, I've never had a single parcel taxed (of course, I always go for 'registered airmail + "as gift" + under 15USD value declared on the package' solution).

I agree, it wouldn't be a smart move at all to introduce that reduction, but at the same time I don't believe it would bring down an import-apocalypse, in case.

[Fudoh]

Na, that's the standard routine. Incoming parcels are checked at the airport. For some invoices are created (a), others get forwarded without fees (b) and others again are forwarded to your local customs office (c).

Here in Germany for small parcels you get 1x (a) for 3x (b) and 10x (c)

If they kill the 22 EUR threshold (b) would be eliminated. And getting the seller to declare a lower value for a higher chance of (b) is easier than using falsified papers to pick up your parcel at the customs office (not saying that anyone should do this).

What we really need is a much higher threshold for customs fees AND taxes for private buyers. Kinda of what the USA has. The EU wanted this as well when they introduced the 150 EUR threshold, but the countries objected and turned this into a half-wit solution (customs free, but taxed...), which saved no time or special trips to the customs office.

[Fudoh]

but at the same time I don't believe it would bring down an import-apocalypse, in case.

I talk a lot to the customs officers (I'm there all the time) and you wouldn't believe how many people don't even pick up their parcels. We're talking 5 EUR shipments from China - hundreds of them. Just not worth driving to the customs office for that kind of shipment.

[Galdelico]

Ha, that's interesting, I didn't know about that.

And Matt, really wish everything will turn out to be fine, for the next batch of OSSC units. I commented on the latest MLIG video (here) about my desire of seeing the device showcased more - along with the Mini - and Try seems well aware of the fact the OSSC community is growing, as they plan to give it more space and coverage, in their upcoming episodes.

[arovane]

What we really need is a much higher threshold for customs fees AND taxes for private buyers. Kinda of what the USA has. The EU wanted this as well when they introduced the 150 EUR threshold, but the countries objected and turned this into a half-wit solution (customs free, but taxed...), which saved no time or special trips to the customs office.

In Norway it is VERY obvious that their whole custom system has one only purpose: make money. Even when stuff are marked as "gift" and with a low value, they find a way to tax it (like including shipment in the total if total is not enough). And we're talking about 25% of the total with shipping + a fee for actually taxing the goods + 25% VAT on the price of that fee. Insane. You wouldn't believe how much money the state generate with custom, cause you know, you can't find much here in Norway and so you always end up buying stuff online cause you can't find it here. No wonder they never wanted to be in the EU in the first place. This is very close to organised robbery if you ask me.

[BuckoA51]

Indeed the situation in Switzerland is very similar, if more British people had actually looked into this they might have realised, but no instead they believe a repeatedly debunked lie painted on the side of a red bus.

[Mikeyy00]

I often do, but Canada Post didn't add any fees to the OSSC.

You were lucky. :d I had to pay $23 in duty when mine arrived.. (Alberta)

There's people in Alberta doing upscaling and RGB?!?! I thought I was alone...

High five!