Huge video differences between PS2/Wii/Gamecube on BVM

[Remistewart]

Hi all!

I am having a big problem with the video output of the Wii and Gamecube. In comparison the PS2 I own, the quality outputted in 240p from the Wii and Gamecube is considerably softer and muddier. I am using Retroarch on the Wii and Gamecube, and Snes9x on the PS2 to emulate retro 240p games.

My monitor is a BVM D24W1E. The Wii and PS2 are hooked up via their official RGB cables and the Gamecube via an RGB cable from retrogamingcables. Here are screenshots to show the differences between the three:

PS2


GAMECUBE


WII


All three machines are using the same emulator Snes9x. 480i and 480p modes on the PS2 are also vastly sharper. There's this odd muddy blurriness in both the Wii and Gamecube that has led me to purchasing various cables (component too), trying different emulators and changing around settings but the blurry output remains the same. Same differences goes for non-emulated games on all three consoles.

I was wondering if anybody knew why the PS2 output is so much sharper than the Wii and Gamecube?

Please let me know if there is any information I missed out that you need.

Many thanks and look forward to hearing some theories!

Remi

[Guspaz]

Have you checked if snes9x on the Wii/GCN is doing some sort of interpolation, and that it's set to output 256x240 rather than 320x240?

Personally I find that PS2 image to be rather unpleasant, the Wii and the Gamecube pictures look much better to me, although I'd probably like best somewhere in the middle.

[Lawfer]

That's just the sort of the thing a high end and accurate broadcast monitor such as the BVM-D/A24/32 would be able to pick up on, it's not the cables it's just that the PS2 RGB output is better than the other consoles outputs, playing these games on a consumer grade TV would make them look more equal if that bothers you. Don't expect different consoles to have the exact same look, especially not when playing on a broadcast monitor.

It is somewhat well known that the GameCube output is darker than the PS2 for some reason. (compare Resident Evil Code Veronica X on PS2 and GameCube to see the obvious difference)

Heck there is even a difference of outputs between the same consoles:

- First generation PS1 outputs is different than the latter ones (especially starting at the 750x series)

- Model 1 Saturn output looks different than the Model 2

- Wii RVL-001 model output is different than RVL-101

[austin532]

It is somewhat well known that the GameCube output is darker than the PS2 for some reason. (compare Resident Evil Code Veronica X on PS2 and GameCube to see the obvious difference)

Really? Did not know that. I know that the GC has a softer image compared to PS2 but never knew it was darker.

[Ikaruga11]

It is somewhat well known that the GameCube output is darker than the PS2 for some reason. (compare Resident Evil Code Veronica X on PS2 and GameCube to see the obvious difference)

Really? Did not know that. I know that the GC has a softer image compared to PS2 but never knew it was darker.

I would take his word with a grain of salt. He also thinks 480i is sharper than 480p on the Wii.

[Remistewart]

Thanks for the replies! Yep, it would seem having a monitor with 1000 lines is definitely a little too revealing for the Wii/GC!

Its good to know it isn't an issue on the software side - so I can stop spending cash and conclude my search for a sharper picture on those consoles.

I was wondering if anybody knew which game consoles have the sharpest RGB outputs? It really does look wonderful on the BVM when the source output is premium grade quality too, playing PS1 and PS2 games have been a dream! The more material I can bring to it, the better.

Thanks!

Remi

[gray117]

The light/darkness is probably mostly a signal level thing. You'll likely find your set will be sensitive to that kind of thing. Either adjust settings or add in a little variable resistor box per each line.

As guspaz noted ps2 is probably coming in a little strong (you'll see this even on many consumer sets), but I'd much rather dick about with ps2 than with wii/gamecube/n64 ... just not worth the effort imho...

I'm not familiar with the console version of the emulators in question (must admit I'd just use a pc), but to be significant softness differences I've got to imagine there's some scaling/filter that retroarch is doing... configurable I presume?

... p.s. fck 480i imho you play in 480i you might as well just forget these kind of comparisons and either just play the games or chuck the bvm in the bin...

[Lawfer]

I was wondering if anybody knew which game consoles have the sharpest RGB outputs?

PS2, Sega Saturn Model 1. You should try Astal on your monitor with the Saturn RGB output, you'll see what I am talking about. Or even, make comparison Rockman X3 and X4 on both the PS2 and Saturn.

Some of the Early PS1 have equally sharp RGB output, but they have much too much noise for some reason, while latter revisions are clean without noise but not as sharp as the early ones.

The original Xbox RGB output is very sharp too from what I have seen on my Broadcast monitor with my v1.3 original Xbox, but I don't think that there was any info if whether or not there is a difference in RGB output quality between the 7 different original Xbox revisions (they changed quite a bit of things in the hardware between the revisions).

It really does look wonderful on the BVM when the source output is premium grade quality too, playing PS1 and PS2 games have been a dream! The more material I can bring to it, the better.

I'd just get a Fat PS2 and play PS1 and PS2 games on that, the PS2 even has Optical Toslink audio output, so you can get the best audio for both PS2 and PS1 games, quite a bit of PS2 games support Dolby Digital 5.1 (only during cutscenes), Dolby Pro Logic II and Dolby Surround heck even some PS1 games do support Dolby Surround even though the PS1 couldn't accommodate for that.

[austin532]

I'd just get a Fat PS2 and play PS1 and PS2 games on that, the PS2 even has Optical Toslink audio output, so you can get the best audio for both PS2 and PS1 games, quite a bit of PS2 games support Dolby Digital 5.1 (only during cutscenes), Dolby Pro Logic II and Dolby Surround heck even some PS1 games do support Dolby Surround even though the PS1 couldn't accommodate for that.

Some games also support in game DTS 4.0 which is the closest to in game 5.1 you are going to get. The PS1 didn't need to accommodate that. All Dolby Surround does is take the Stereo signal and split it 3 ways. Also just because a game has the Dolby Surround logo does not mean the entire soundtrack supports it. They had to put that logo on the case even if only one track was encoded with Dolby.

[Remistewart]

I played SSX Tricky for the PS2 the other day and it had in game DTS. Theme music would swooping around me and I could even hear the other snowboarders and crowds cheering behind me which was a real surprise. Pretty cool for a game released in 2001.

Shame just a select few consoles output RGB sharp enough for my monitor to take advantage of - but glad my PS2 is doing the job.