Building my perfect NES/SNES/N64 setup

[tacoguy64]

Congrats on our new monitor though it is a bit more expensive than what they usually go for on the open market. From the sounds of it the monitor has had very little usage and was taken care of nicely so at least there's that.

Most older consoles like your SNES have a screen resolution of 256x224, and lots of other conoles including the N64 display at around that resolution. There are some N64 games that display in 480i which is 640x480 interlaced, that's what they are talking about. Most older crt's display in 480i as their normal resolution so you wont have any trouble running 480i content on your monitor.

I am still very curious about those 14 inch PVMs since phonedork did mention that it was his favorite monitor for playing N64 games. But that video is about a year old now and lots of things have happened since then.

[RdCrestdBreegull]

Yeah, I know I overpaid :/ But I see it as good luck since the chances are probably pretty low of finding one with such a small amount of hours on it

I counted the individual scan lines on the Donkey Kong Country overworld screen and there were about 220, so there probably were 224 Why is it that I always hear about 240p, if 224p is more accurate then?

Do you think he said that 14" PVMs were his favorite for N64 games because 20" and larger expose more flaws with the N64's graphics? 14" probably isn't too good for split screen multiplayer games.

PS--Is the RGB sync for the 14M4U the same as the BVM-20F1U? I'm wondering if I start working on my RGB setup with my 14M4U if all of my modifications and cables will work exactly the same if I ever get a 20F1U.

[tacoguy64]

Don't worry too much about it. The deed is done so just enjoy stepping into the world of RGB.

The scanlines refer more to TVL i believe. Which on a 14 inch PVM it should be somewhere between 500 to 600 TVL. Take those numbers and divide them in half, that's how many black lines you should count.

As for hearing about 240p? Well remember that a lot of the older consoles have all kinds of different kinds of resolutions. 240p is more of a reference point for consoles.

The N64 is still a pretty tricky monster. He stated that the 14 inch PVMs was sharp enough to not make it look too blurry and the scanlines weren't as thick. Normally he likes thick scanlines except when it comes to the N64.

[Sid]

The scanlines refer more to TVL i believe. Which on a 14 inch PVM it should be somewhere between 500 to 600 TVL. Take those numbers and divide them in half, that's how many black lines you should count.

TVL is horizontal resolution. I think that the 14 inch M4 is right up at 800, which is very dense at that size. 240p refers to vertical resolution.

[Einzelherz]

240p is just halving of 480. That's because a standard NTSC signal has 480 vertical lines. IIRC the snes (and nes) display nothing on the top and bottom 8 lines, which often lives in the overscan anyway.

[RdCrestdBreegull]

240p is just halving of 480. That's because a standard NTSC signal has 480 vertical lines. IIRC the snes (and nes) display nothing on the top and bottom 8 lines, which often lives in the overscan anyway.

Ahh that makes sense, hence the 224 scan lines!

Does anyone know of good calibration videos or instructions for PVM monitors? I wanna get this baby lookin good!

[satstation]

Don't worry too much about it. The deed is done so just enjoy stepping into the world of RGB.

Why would he be worried about it? An RGB monitor with that few hours on it is a steal! With their recent rise in popularity it's better to pay a little more NOW than pay a lot more LATER.

[Guspaz]

Calibration is... really involved, and perfect calibration is impossible. Practical calibration can involve tweaking the colours/brightness to get that right, and tweaking the geometry to get it as good as possible.

[CobraKing]

The RetroFixes mod is definitely not an N64RGB, because he specifies that it only works on certain models: the N64RGB mod works on all models, it's the "rgb enable" type mod that works on the certain models.

I'm not sure who does the N64RGB install off the top of my head. I'd try asking Voultar, his prices are good and he has a good rep.

The early N64 consoles with NS1 serials have native RGB but need an amp to display correctly, that's what RetroFixes does.

http://www.retrorgb.com/n64rgbmod.html

Anything with NS2 serials and up needs Tim's RGB board or the UltraHDMI kit.

[tacoguy64]

Don't worry too much about it. The deed is done so just enjoy stepping into the world of RGB.

Why would he be worried about it? An RGB monitor with that few hours on it is a steal! With their recent rise in popularity it's better to pay a little more NOW than pay a lot more LATER.

I only mentioned it in case people were gonna give him shit paying that much for the monitor. As it turned out i'm the only one that brought that up
Youre right about how crazy the prices on these have gotten though. Something with that low of usage will be good for the longer future.

[Einzelherz]

240p is just halving of 480. That's because a standard NTSC signal has 480 vertical lines. IIRC the snes (and nes) display nothing on the top and bottom 8 lines, which often lives in the overscan anyway.

Ahh that makes sense, hence the 224 scan lines!

Does anyone know of good calibration videos or instructions for PVM monitors? I wanna get this baby lookin good!

I would ignore the colors unless you have access to a colorimeter.

For geometry, I'd recommend the 240p test suite on whatever the easiest console to display it you have. I personally use Wii for component in, Dreamcast for RGB in, and GameCube for s-video in.

Barring the ability to use the 240p test suite, just run your systems on it and recenter, expand, and square up your screen as best as you can.

And never forget rule #1: Always always always write down the settings before you change anything.

[RdCrestdBreegull]

One issue that I'm having with my PVM is when I press the 16:9 button I'm getting a rainbow line above the picture (red, green, and blue lines grouped together as a three-line strip). You may also notice that the very bottom scan line is being partially cut off on the right side:

Spoiler

(Just using a blu-ray player for testing purposes)

[Guspaz]

That (the rainbow lines) normal when you make the overscan area of the screen visible. They'd normally be hidden off-screen, or behind a 16:9 physical mask.

[noonan2678]

I have SD CRTs, HD CRTs, and a PVM 2950. I like the PVM the best, pretty definitively. That said, I don't have the HD Retrovision cables and imagine they would be nice on an HD CRT. The 2950 is nice and large and also does not have the fat scan lines that the BVM line does. I really think it's the best combo of both.

Good luck finding one though...

[RdCrestdBreegull]

Speaking of my "perfect" setup... Besides getting RGB mods for all my consoles, I was thinking about getting RCA audio outputs installed on all three of my consoles as well. I want to be able to transmit the audio separately to an amplifier rather than having it sent along with the video signal in a single cable group. I'm going to be using AudioQuest RCA cables for the audio.

Now, I have a question about the video cables I'll be using... Is it possible to have a cable that is the Nintendo Multi Out (male) on one end, going straight to BNC (R,G,B,sync--males) on the other? If not, then why? Why do I see all of these Multi-Out to SCART cables and SCART (female) to BNC (male) cable combos? Why not just go Multi-Out directly to BNC?

[Shoryukev]

Speaking of my "perfect" setup... Besides getting RGB mods for all my consoles, I was thinking about getting RCA audio outputs installed on all three of my consoles as well. I want to be able to transmit the audio separately to an amplifier rather than having it sent along with the video signal in a single cable group. I'm going to be using AudioQuest RCA cables for the audio.

Now, I have a question about the video cables I'll be using... Is it possible to have a cable that is the Nintendo Multi Out (male) on one end, going straight to BNC (R,G,B,sync--males) on the other? If not, then why? Why do I see all of these Multi-Out to SCART cables and SCART (female) to BNC (male) cable combos? Why not just go Multi-Out directly to BNC?

Why not just get a SCART switch and hook up all your consoles to it, and then take the audio from that and run it to your amplifier?

SCART was a standard cable already being used for RGB in many parts of the world, therefore it was easy to just use it as the basis for our console mods/cables/etc. For people in the United States it may seem strange, but lots of people in Europe can just plug a SCART cable into their TV and be done with it (I'm jealous of that bigtime).

My PVM accepts BNC's for its RGB input, but maybe later if I get a different monitor or start using a framemeister I won't have to rebuy all my cables. I'll only have to buy a new adapter to convert the SCART pinout to match whatever I use in the future.

retro_console_accessories on ebay will make you a cable that plugs into your system that goes straight to BNC, or you could make your own cables....but most of us just use SCART because it's easy, compatible with lots of equipment, and readily available.

[RdCrestdBreegull]

Why not just get a SCART switch and hook up all your consoles to it, and then take the audio from that and run it to your amplifier?

If I get my NES modified with a Multi-Out, I really don't mind simply unplugging and replugging the Multi-Out from my NES, SNES, and N64 depending on which I want to use. And I'll have each console sending an individual stereo audio signal to an amplifier. This way, all of the audio and video is going directly to the monitor and amp.

My PVM accepts BNC's for its RGB input, but maybe later if I get a different monitor or start using a framemeister I won't have to rebuy all my cables. I'll only have to buy a new adapter to convert the SCART pinout to match whatever I use in the future.

I thought people only used Framemeisters for HDTVs?

[Guspaz]

PVMs use BNC inputs, the Framemeister uses a mini DIN. Excepting people using consumer CRTs in Europe, none of us actually use SCART as the endpoint of our display chain. The last link in the chain is going to be an adapter to convert from SCART to something else. His point is that, if he switches to some other device in the future, he doesn't have to get rid of all his SCART cables, he just has to change his adapter from SCART-to-BNC to SCART-to-SomethingElse.

It seems that SCART switches are still generally the RGB switch type with the least restrictions/issues (since the Extron Crosspoint has strict sync requirements), SCART is convenient in that it provides both power and a place to put active components (example: SCART cables with a sync stripper built-in), and is quite easy to rewire by hand (it's not difficult to open up a SCART plug and resolder stuff).

There are downsides, of course: the input vs output confusion (my setup requires two SCART-to-BNC connectors that look identical on the outside, but sync is wired to input on one, and output on the other), the 5v vs 12v issue (the power is really meant for signal selection signaling), devices often using the composite video line for signal detection (causes issues with YPbPr over SCART), the large physical size of the connector, etc.

[RdCrestdBreegull]

I sent my N64 and SNS-001 to Retrofixes to get RGB mods. I ordered a Multi-Out to RGB+sync BNC cable from Retro Accessories on eBay. Will this cable work with connecting my consoles to my PVM-14M4U directly? Or will I need some type of sync stripper?

[Einzelherz]

You shouldn't need a sync stripper even if your sync is composite video.

[RdCrestdBreegull]

You shouldn't need a sync stripper even if your sync is composite video.

Thank you. I assumed so, but had to be sure. I still don't quite understand the concept of sync stripping.

[mvsfan]

if you plan on getting more consoles, get a scart switch too.

[RdCrestdBreegull]

if you plan on getting more consoles, get a scart switch too.

For now (and to save money) I'm just using an N64 and SNES sharing the same Multi-Out to BNC cable (unplugging and replugging depending on which system I'm using). I'm going to get a NES soon and will have it modified with an RGB-enabled Multi-Out, and I'll continue unplugging and replugging the same Multi-Out>BNC cable between all three systems until I get enough cash to get three different cables and a SCART switcher. I'd rather save up and get a 20" monitor first I'm looking at functionality before convenience at this point.

[RdCrestdBreegull]

Can someone explain this item to me?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/201271092162

If I end up getting a SCART switchbox in the future, and if I'd be getting new SCART cables for all my consoles, would this be something I'd need to get installed with all the cables that I order?

[Guspaz]

That's the surcharge that RetroConsoleAccessories adds when you want to use higher quality cable in the SCART cables that she makes. You don't need it (the cables will work without the upgrade), but you're less likely to have any issues with interference or signal degradation in the future.

Basically it depends on your budget. If you're buying new SCART cables from her, if you can afford it, it's a good idea to get the upgraded ones. If you can't afford it, you'll probably be fine without it.

EDIT: The upgrade is to use multi-core coaxial cable. I'm not super down on the science behind exactly how coax cables work, but basically they're a special kind of cable that is highly resistant to interference.

[RdCrestdBreegull]

I just noticed that the RetroFixes recommendation for an RGB cable for the N64 RGB mod is a 'sync on luma' cable; however, I've already purchased a csync cable. I was intending on switching the csync Multi-Out/BNC cable between my N64 and SNES. Will I be able to do this, or will I need a separate sync-on-luma cable for my N64?

And also, what sync method does the NESRGB output? Since I was planning on sharing the same cable between all three systems.

[ApolloBoy]

I just noticed that the RetroFixes recommendation for an RGB cable for the N64 RGB mod is a 'sync on luma' cable; however, I've already purchased a csync cable. I was intending on switching the csync Multi-Out/BNC cable between my N64 and SNES. Will I be able to do this, or will I need a separate sync-on-luma cable for my N64?

It depends on what N64 revision you have. If it's the NUS-CPU-03 no need to worry, if it's anything else you'll need to wire the luma pin from the multiout to the composite sync pin.

And also, what sync method does the NESRGB output? Since I was planning on sharing the same cable between all three systems.

It outputs standard 75 ohm composite sync.

[RdCrestdBreegull]

It depends on what N64 revision you have. If it's the NUS-CPU-03 no need to worry, if it's anything else you'll need to wire the luma pin from the multiout to the composite sync pin.

All I can tell you right now is that my N64's serial number begins with NS1.

[Ikaruga11]

I have a Charcoal Grey N64 with a Serial # of NS100500585 and a CPU-03 (or possibly CPU-02?) motherboard.

Will the "official" RGB mod or Tim's RGB board give me better image quality? Do both ouput CSync? Can I have both installed at the same time?

[ApolloBoy]

Will the "official" RGB mod or Tim's RGB board give me better image quality?

I think the consensus is that the N64RGB provides slightly better video quality compared to installing an RGB amp. I've been using a THS7314-based amp in mine for years though and I'm still pretty satisfied with the image quality.

Do both ouput CSync?

The N64RGB can provide composite sync, but the NUS-CPU-03 revision already has composite sync so you don't need to use the N64RGB's sync signal.

Can I have both installed at the same time?

Um no, you either go with one or the other. The N64RGB isn't a bad option to go with but it's really better suited for later N64s that can't be RGB modded through conventional means.