Questions that do not deserve a thread

[Fudoh]

indeed, you need a line buffer.

[bobrocks95]

Does anyone have any experience shipping CRTs within the continental US? I'm potentially looking to send some 20" PVMs through the mail and I'd really really like them to travel safely. I asked on Twitter and RetroRGB said that freight shipping is best for monitors, but FedEx quoted me about $480 for freight shipping compared to $80 for ground shipping. Is that just how much is costs to keep a monitor in good shape?

Any advice on shipping CRTs would be greatly appreciated!

I've never checked a freight price quote but that's not surprising at all. People recommend getting a CRT shipped screen-down on a pallet, and that can't be cheap. I wouldn't be shipping any CRT that I wasn't 100% sold on, or one that I may replace in the future with a better model.

[Guspaz]

The theoretical minimum would be enough memory to buffer a single line, but in practice line doublers or devices that work similarly are usually storing a few lines. The fancier you try to get, the more scanlines you need to buffer.

[Blair]

Well that looks pretty damn nice. To my eyes everything except the character select icons work well in 240p. Thanks a lot for those, Blair. That is some throughout documenting. I appreciate it. I'll post some shots later of how the game looks like for me now that I have the Garo.

that sounds great! I'd love to see that.

yeah, I also noticed the character select portraits, but I remember those looking pretty bad on my old wega television in native 480i.

[accaris]

Does anyone have any experience shipping CRTs within the continental US? I'm potentially looking to send some 20" PVMs through the mail and I'd really really like them to travel safely. I asked on Twitter and RetroRGB said that freight shipping is best for monitors, but FedEx quoted me about $480 for freight shipping compared to $80 for ground shipping. Is that just how much is costs to keep a monitor in good shape?

Any advice on shipping CRTs would be greatly appreciated!

You have to double box. First box contains the CRT heavily wrapped in extra big bubble wrap (not just regular bubble wrap.) It's gotta be extra large for shock absorbing, 1/2 inch or bigger. You could also do a combination of bubble wrap and foam roll. I would also include a silica gel packet to ensure against any moisture in the box.

Then, you put the first box in a second box with about 2-3 inches of clearance all around, and fill the gap with foam packing peanuts. Completely enclosed.

[Einzelherz]

Does anyone have any experience shipping CRTs within the continental US? I'm potentially looking to send some 20" PVMs through the mail and I'd really really like them to travel safely. I asked on Twitter and RetroRGB said that freight shipping is best for monitors, but FedEx quoted me about $480 for freight shipping compared to $80 for ground shipping. Is that just how much is costs to keep a monitor in good shape?

Any advice on shipping CRTs would be greatly appreciated!

I have had two sent to me FedEx ground. They both showed up fine. Put them screen down on stiff foam and support the other five sides.

[atheistgod1999]

My PS4 isn't playing blu rays at 24Hz even though I enabled it in the settings and play at 24Hz on my PS3. Can I fix this?

[Shoryukev]

Can someone recommend me a product to connect an old PC outputting a VGA signal to a CRT TV with s-video? I moved a couple of weeks ago, and seem to have lost my little converter box (which kinda sucked anyways). I'm using soft15khz, currently outputting 480i because of problems with my old converter (it converted everything to 480i anyways so using anything else looked worse), but I'm willing to buy a new video card to get proper 240p if I have to.

I've e-mailed ultimarc about their arcadeVGA video card, but they weren't able to tell me if their video card would work with something like a J-rok video encoder....if it does that would be most non heinous!

I really wish I could use YPbPr or RGBs, but all this TV has is RF, composite, and s-video. I'll look up the model number on the back of the set and probably ask you guys if it's worth RGB modding in another thread in the next couple days (it's an old 32" sony....might be worth it). Eventually I'd like to have an NEC XM29 in my MAME cabinet....but they seem to be about as rare as unicorns these days. I have a 14" PVM, but putting it in the cabinet would look ridiculous since it was sized for a 4 player control panel and a 32" television LOL.

[Fudoh]

The only straight to s-video VGA to 240p converter is the Emotia series. Quite hard to find these days though.

[Arasoi]

.

[Blair]

Can someone recommend me a product to connect an old PC outputting a VGA signal to a CRT TV with s-video? I moved a couple of weeks ago, and seem to have lost my little converter box (which kinda sucked anyways). I'm using soft15khz, currently outputting 480i because of problems with my old converter (it converted everything to 480i anyways so using anything else looked worse), but I'm willing to buy a new video card to get proper 240p if I have to.

I've e-mailed ultimarc about their arcadeVGA video card, but they weren't able to tell me if their video card would work with something like a J-rok video encoder....if it does that would be most non heinous!

I really wish I could use YPbPr or RGBs, but all this TV has is RF, composite, and s-video. I'll look up the model number on the back of the set and probably ask you guys if it's worth RGB modding in another thread in the next couple days (it's an old 32" sony....might be worth it). Eventually I'd like to have an NEC XM29 in my MAME cabinet....but they seem to be about as rare as unicorns these days. I have a 14" PVM, but putting it in the cabinet would look ridiculous since it was sized for a 4 player control panel and a 32" television LOL.

you could get a D-Sub 15 (VGA) to Scart cable (although most of the premade ones are wired incorrectly, so you might have to fix the wiring yourself if you don't already know how to make cables) and then connect it to one of those RGB to s-video boards. I've heard of people having pretty good luck with them. although most of the time I see people hooking up Sega Genesis RGB cables to them, but as long as the signal is good I don't see why it would be a problem using a PC output.

Almost any video card can output a 240p or 480i RGBHV signal just fine (you just need to adjust your timing settings, maybe use a calculator a few want to get really accurate). however if you need RGBs output you'll probably need to connect up to a a sync combiner (extron rgb interface). which would actually make things a bit easier in the long run. you could just use normal VGA output from the PC into the interface and that will spit out RGBs and then you can just connect that to the S-video board.




if you just need 480i one of these HDMI to S-video converters should work fine, I've seen people use them for connecting new PCs up to old televisions, seem to work okay as long as you know how to manage the aspect ratio stuff

[Guspaz]

Almost any video card can output a 240p or 480i RGBHV signal just fine

My understanding is that the vast majority of modern videocards are not capable of outputting a 15KHz signal. Nothing from Intel, nothing recent from nVidia, and hit or miss with ATI. Information on the subject is very hard to find, though.

It seems to me that it's much simpler to output 480p and downscale, since the pi-driven GBS can apparently do it, and the Extron VSC/RGB combo aren't very expensive either.

[Blair]

it's getting harder and harder to get proper 240p and 480i out of newer hardware, and even when you do resolution switching can be a pain in the ass. I've heard a lot of people say it's much easier to do on a Linux operating system then Windows. (on my Windows 7 set up my 750ti does okay with 480i and 240p output)

not to mention that many hardware companies are phasing out analog output functionality from video cards, there's also other problems as both Nvidia and ATI cards have frame rate lock and tearing problems with all of their analog output, .regardless of resolution (that's why I use the HDMI output of my video card to connect to my RGB monitors)

it's actually pretty easy to get 240p from the digital output on quite a few new video cards (GTX 980 ti works fine when I did it), although it's kind of useless with digital displays (I'm not sure how many of them support 240p over HDMI, my Samsung does but it's handling of 240p scaling is garbage whether its on an analog or digital connection)

[Shoryukev]

First of all......wow you guys are awesome, I didn't expect such a big response to that question!

The only straight to s-video VGA to 240p converter is the Emotia series. Quite hard to find these days though.

I'll keep a look-out. There's a Extron Super Emotia II ER-9525 on ebay right now for $100 even, but it doesn't have the power supply. Looks like just a standard DIN connector though, I could easily solder up something as long as the unit actually works and isn't just a shady seller pawning it off as "untested" instead of broken LOL

An Extron Super Emotia GX would fit the bill, I use one of those and have found it a good downscaling solution overall. A bit pricey but will get the job done for what you wanted. As the wise Fudoh said though.. tough to get these days.

For the arcadevga, you'd need to break out to RCA or BNC from the VGA connector, then combine H/V sync to csync. Since the output isn't the same as JAMMA level RGB you'd maybe need to amplify the R/G/B lines before input to the JROK pcb, though the adjustable pots on the JROK should make that unecessary (I had one in my NES frontloader for a long time that worked great)

Can I just solder the H and V wires together to do that, or is there more to it than that? I've never made my own cables before, but I've modded systems, built guitar amps, etc. so I'm no stranger to the DIY approach. The jrok seems to be rock solid for use in superguns....so I'd assume as long as I can get the PC to output a 15khz signal, and get it to the jrok in RGBS it should be a good option.

you could get a D-Sub 15 (VGA) to Scart cable (although most of the premade ones are wired incorrectly, so you might have to fix the wiring yourself if you don't already know how to make cables) and then connect it to one of those RGB to s-video boards. I've heard of people having pretty good luck with them. although most of the time I see people hooking up Sega Genesis RGB cables to them, but as long as the signal is good I don't see why it would be a problem using a PC output.

Almost any video card can output a 240p or 480i RGBHV signal just fine (you just need to adjust your timing settings, maybe use a calculator a few want to get really accurate). however if you need RGBs output you'll probably need to connect up to a a sync combiner (extron rgb interface). which would actually make things a bit easier in the long run. you could just use normal VGA output from the PC into the interface and that will spit out RGBs and then you can just connect that to the S-video board.

if you just need 480i one of these HDMI to S-video converters should work fine, I've seen people use them for connecting new PCs up to old televisions, seem to work okay as long as you know how to manage the aspect ratio stuff

I'll look into one of those RGB to s-video boards, that might be the simplest option if I can get the computer outputting 240p correctly. I am not able to confirm this since my previous converter always spit out 480i though. I do know that I had a newer nvidia card in the computer previously for mild PC gaming and it would NOT do 240p. I replaced it with an ancient ATI graphics card I found lying around and it at least has the option to output 240x320 at 15hz in the options when I'm using soft15khz....so there's a good chance I can get that working.

My understanding is that the vast majority of modern videocards are not capable of outputting a 15KHz signal. Nothing from Intel, nothing recent from nVidia, and hit or miss with ATI. Information on the subject is very hard to find, though.

It seems to me that it's much simpler to output 480p and downscale, since the pi-driven GBS can apparently do it, and the Extron VSC/RGB combo aren't very expensive either.

I can confirm that I've tried several video cards (mostly nvidia) that wouldn't do 15khz at all. Going 480p and downscaling does seem like a good option!

Forgive my ignorance on the subject (my experience is limited), but what do the VSC and RGB units do? I'm looking at a VSC 200 unit on ebay and it looks like it converts a VGA signal to s-video....but I'm guessing the RGB unit is for downscaling first? If so, that sounds like both an easy and excellent option. Which two particular units in the VSC and the RGB series would you recommend?

I have an Extron scaler already (I think it's an IN1502), but it only has BNC composite and s-video inputs, then outputs VGA....kinda the opposite of what I'm trying to achieve here. Works great for my laserdisc player though LOL

not to mention that many hardware companies are phasing out analog output functionality from video cards, there's also other problems as both Nvidia and ATI cards have frame rate lock and tearing problems with all of their analog output, .regardless of resolution (that's why I use the HDMI output of my video card to connect to my RGB monitors)

it's actually pretty easy to get 240p from the digital output on quite a few new video cards (GTX 980 ti works fine when I did it), although it's kind of useless with digital displays (I'm not sure how many of them support 240p over HDMI, my Samsung does but it's handling of 240p scaling is garbage whether its on an analog or digital connection)

I'd be interested to hear more about that, I do get some screen tearing sometimes and it is VERY annoying. I could always put my newer and more powerful nvidia card back in and output 480p and downscale from there.

[Fudoh]

I'll keep a look-out. There's a Extron Super Emotia II ER-9525 on ebay right now.

won't work. This one's 480i only. You need an Emotia, Emotia Plus, Super Emotia or Super Emotia GX. These are the only ones with 240p output.

[Guspaz]

Forgive my ignorance on the subject (my experience is limited), but what do the VSC and RGB units do? I'm looking at a VSC 200 unit on ebay and it looks like it converts a VGA signal to s-video....but I'm guessing the RGB unit is for downscaling first? If so, that sounds like both an easy and excellent option. Which two particular units in the VSC and the RGB series would you recommend?

Most of what I know about that comes from Fudoh's page on the subject of downscaling:

http://scanlines.hazard-city.de/

As for the GBS, I've not tried it, I've just noticed that downscaling to 240p is listed as one of the features of the raspberry pi driven "custom firmware" project (which isn't actually custom firmware, but you connect a pi to the scaler to tweak the internal settings to do stuff it couldn't do out of the box).

[Shoryukev]

Most of what I know about that comes from Fudoh's page on the subject of downscaling:

http://scanlines.hazard-city.de/

As for the GBS, I've not tried it, I've just noticed that downscaling to 240p is listed as one of the features of the raspberry pi driven "custom firmware" project (which isn't actually custom firmware, but you connect a pi to the scaler to tweak the internal settings to do stuff it couldn't do out of the box).

Thank you for the link, the information there is exactly what I need. I have some reading to do!!!

I now understand that the VSC downscales the 480p image to 480i, and then the RGB unit has a line-offset feature that will give me 240p....there's one problem though....the RGB units don't have an s-video output....so I still need another piece to the puzzle to use with the TV set in my mame cab (until I eventually find a large RGB monitor to put in it, or RGB mod the TV).

For now I think I'll buy a VSC unit and use it's anti-flicker setting that mimics a 240p signal, at least that will get me up and running again. I might buy an RGB unit as well....but I won't be able to use it yet...

So for now.........PC 480p output >Extron VSC >480i to the TV s-video with anti-flicker 240p mimic thing
then eventually...PC 480p output >Extron VSC >Extron RGB > ??? >real 240p to the TV s-video
then year(s) from now.....PC 480p output >Extron VSC >Extron RGB >real 240p signal to an RGB monitor

Building this mame cab has been a bit of a pain. Figuring out front-end software, getting the roms/emulators working, doing all the woodwork building it, wiring the controls to a USB input interface, making it look pretty so the wife lets it in the house (LOL), etc. etc. etc......but for me emulation is a necessary evil when it comes to arcade games. I just can't afford to start collecting arcade PCBs. At some point I'm going to sell my Neo Geo AES and buy an MVS to stick it in the cab....but that's only because I can at least swap carts or get a 161-cart and make it a good bang for the buck.

Thanks everyone for your help, I can't stress it enough. You have no idea how much time your replies saved me in figuring this out. For those that care, this is the cab in question.

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[FinalBaton]

Forgive my ignorance on the subject (my experience is limited), but what do the VSC and RGB units do?

VSC unit will downscale to 480i, and RGB interface will convert 480i to 240p

The 480i to 240p trick doesn't work on all consoles, but it seems to work on PC. At least that's my understanding, as I've seen a couple of pics with a pc setup using these 2 machines in tandem to get 240p. Maybe someone can confirm that it 100% surely will work on a PC?

As for the Extron interfaces themselves, it appears that not all of them can execute the 480i to 240p trick. To be on the safe side, I would recommend to pick up one that as been confirmed to work. The 580xi certainly does, as I have one and it works brilliantly to get 240p out of my PS2 480i games.

[Shoryukev]

To be on the safe side, I would recommend to pick up one that as been confirmed to work.

I agree with you there! I see lots of VSC-200 units on ebay for super cheap (like $20-30 shipped), in the manual it mentions a couple times that you can set it to "NTSC/PAL, 15.75 kHz" output........that's 480i right? 480p is 31khz I think. Just making sure I'm not being a knucklehead and looking at the wrong thing.

EDIT: I can see in the illustration on top of the unit the s-video and composite connections being hooked to a VCR, pretty sure I'm good to go with the VSC-200. There's also VSC-500 and 150 models I see for the same price. Not sure if they are better or worse, about half the size though.

[Guspaz]

S-video is always 480i. 240p is just messed up timing on 480i which makes the scanlines of both fields overlap instead of being offset, so 240p over S-Video is still technically 480i. So if you see a device with s-video output, then it'll work on your s-video TV. Assuming they're both NTSC.

[Shoryukev]

S-video is always 480i. 240p is just messed up timing on 480i which makes the scanlines of both fields overlap instead of being offset, so 240p over S-Video is still technically 480i. So if you see a device with s-video output, then it'll work on your s-video TV. Assuming they're both NTSC.

Oh okay, that makes it easy to remember then. Does the whole line of VSC units have the anti-flicker trick, or is that only certain units? I think I will go with this VSC-150 unit since it seems the most "dummy proof", but I just want to make sure that the filter buttons on the front will give me that neat trick.

[Fudoh]

You use can the "240p trick" with a s-video signal as well. You just need custom cabling. The Extron interfaces work with RGB and component. Instead of component you can use s-video, so you would need a s-video to VGA cable and a 2x BNC to s-video cable to make the whole thing work.

[atheistgod1999]

What's the best RGB SCART to YUV transcoder with audio passthrough?

[Fudoh]

Kramer FC-15. *THE* reference, if you want a real scart input.

[atheistgod1999]

Kramer FC-15. *THE* reference, if you want a real scart input.

Let me change that: best one that's easy to find and is less than $100.

[Fudoh]

I think all the other ones don't have audio outputs.

[Lord of Pirates]

Kramer FC-15. *THE* reference, if you want a real scart input.

Can it even be bought new anymore?

[Fudoh]

no

[orange808]

Can I trust Leo Bodnar results if the video has been upscaled/downscaled? I have been transcoding/upscaling/downscaling the video output and testing, but I wonder if I am thinking about this in a superficial manner. Are my results rubbish?

[Shoryukev]

I just ordered a VSC-200 on ebay ($25 shipped, not bad), thanks everyone for your input! I'll be searching for an Extron RGB unit soon to upgrade my "rig", but this at least gets it to where I can play Donkey Kong again (I'm extremely addicted to that arcade game lol)

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