Raspberry Pi n00b - a desktop computer ?

[Xyga]

Yo shmuppies.

Got a few noob Q's about the Pi (Pi 3 B). w/ Raspbian

Like:

- How the hell do I get sound over HDMI ?
(been trying to edit nano following various recommendations including official support but it's as fucked up as any distro community)
followed this thread with no luck: https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5062

EDIT: got sound on a different display... is there any particular setting in nano that might restrict compatibility with some displays in that area ?
every topic I've read is so vague... (yay linux)

- Is there an app for browsing and downloading/installing other apps ? Looking for available packages only through the terminal is a pain

(I'll post more questions later I'm afraid)

Thanks ^^"

[Fudoh]

Is there a particular reason why you're running Raspbian ?

[Xyga]

Nope. It's not my Rapsberry, the owner (neighbour) is kind of clueless and got that one installed with the n00b installer (probably because this is the first thing the official website recommends).

So he's got this and only wants do do stuff like browsing the internet, use Skype, play audio/video etc.
But Rapsbian isn't exacly noob-friendly as I'm seeing.

(found the apps management software, but after a search it only shows truckloads of packages that don't tel the layman much)

Dunno if the Pi will take regular builds like Ubunto desktop or Mint ? I'm thinking of getting rid of rapsbian if possible...

EDIT: as for me the last time I've touched a linux distro was in 2008 iirc. :p

[Fudoh]

If you got a second SD card you could try that Windows 10 Pi built that's available. If you download noobs from the official Raspi page you get the option to install it right away.

It's really not too much fun though. If he gets a 2nd hand PC for 50 EUR he's likely MUCH better off for web browsing etc.....

Dunno if the Pi will take regular builds like Ubunto desktop or Mint ?

no.

[Xyga]

Ah nope, no second SD card...

Might as well reformat that SD card and try a fresh install of that Win 10 core.

I'd say Rapsbian would be good-enough even for him if I could find the few roundabouts I need, like something compatible with the Skype network.

But I'm more concerned with the extra unfriendliness of Rapsbian in general, I mean you're presented right away with all the tool for coding, the kind of users it's aimed at is clear.

So I bet the moment he will try something new he'll get into trouble and call me.
You know when I first said "so you type sudo blah blah blah" he candidly asked "sudoku what?" :p

[Guspaz]

Isn't almost every software suite for the Pi using Raspbian? RetroPie does, I presume Recalbox does too.

I'm not sure what you'd want to use Windows 10 for, it doesn't have a desktop interface so it can only be used for one specific "modern" application that you've pre-loaded on it. I don't know why anybody but developers would be using that.

There are Ubuntu distros for the Pi, but since most of the pi community is focused on Raspbian, community support is probably limited for anything else. I'm also not sure that you get under-warranty-overclocking in anything else.

[Xyga]

It's not for me... I'll have to learn bit for the future, but I won't be the user.

I hadn't planned to get into the Rapsberry thing yet, but it kind of got forced on me.
The internet talks too much about the Pi and their own website makes it look like it's a piece of cake for anyone with a keyboard and a mouse, a bit how like Ubuntu and now Mint are presented to the visitor.

Honestly reading the official website while installing the thing you're convinced you have installed a noob-friendly OS (nah, it's only the intaller that's for noobs!)
Then it presents you with alternatives that look like Ubuntu or Windows...

I guess as usual when it comes to linux, nothing is as it looks (seriously it's my first experience with linux in years and it's still the same geek's shit )

[Guspaz]

It depends what you want to do with it. IIRC if you just want to run emulators, Recalbox is pretty much "put this on an SD card, put the SD card into the pi, and it boots to a multi-emulator user interface" and you just gotta put ROMs on the SD card.

[Xyga]

Yeah but again it will not be for anything like video games.
This thread is in fact about the Raspberry Pi "as a computer/OS".
Installing is not the issue, I'm just realizing little by little that Raspbian is not a 'big' distro made to compete with Windows in terms of useability and compatibility, and that the ARM processor really limits the possibilities.

Though from what I've read it's pretty much okay for your average joe's computer needs (and the amateur coder), but it won't take things like Skype for instance, or well yes it sorta can but it'll be an old version running on a $25 commercial x86 emulator.
Of course there are better free alternatives but people have Skype contacts, not alternative client contacts...

You get what you pay for, but seriously even at 50€ for a complete 'rig' if it is that limited then better put the same amount or just twice that in a bottom-end Android machine. Android has all the popular shit working fine.

[Mrhide]

So he's got this and only wants do do stuff like browsing the internet, use Skype, play audio/video etc.

give this a try for audio/video ...

https://www.max2play.com/en/


Love mine!

[Xyga]

Thanks but it's an OS, for playing audio and video I'd rather have a single app for Raspbian.

Took me a while to realize OMXplayer is already installed and definitely the thing to use, other apps like VLC are useless because not hardware accelerated.
Of course it can't be used casually, it's either by command line or with some kind of GUI if you can find one.

I've settled for TBOplayer, it's okay~ish, I have allocated 128Mb to the GPU and even the files up to 720p play smoothly.
Though AVI files can't exactly make the layer display in fullscreen and then forbid to exit the playing 'fullscreen' mode and therefore the program.
MKV & mp4 are fine.
No FLAC compatibility though it seems, or I'm missing the codec.

But the most annoying thing is that it was supposed to allow either playing a file by double-clicking it, or right-click and 'play with'... but there's nothing like that available, I can't even select the program in the 'open with' popup... you have to browse the computer for everything.

Shit.

Also I wanted to try a different web navigator since the default is a big turd, but I can't even find and installable Chromium (supposedly the best / most compatible).
And I want to give Skype's web client a try with it before going for that $25 x86 emulator.

...

Damn, that thing could be awesome, it can, but every little thing that would easily make it so, is either unavailable or a real fucking pain to get to work.
It's like they've made everthing terribly frustrating on purpose.

[Drachenherz]

You could give Ununtu mate a try, it's not to shabby and worked well enough for webbrowsing (chromium) and office (libre office).

Dunno about videos and stuff.

https://ubuntu-mate.org/raspberry-pi/

[Xyga]

Maybe I'll try that later yes, I'm more familiar with Ubuntu also, but I want to see what's possible with Raspbian first.

If every available alternative distro is actually based on Raspbian as Guspaz said then I bet this Ubuntu-mate is a kind of an 'overlay', isn't it ?

Anyway next I'm going to give the KWEB (browser + media player) solution for Raspbian a try.

[Drachenherz]

Maybe I'll try that later yes, I'm more familiar with Ubuntu also, but I want to see what's possible with Raspbian first.

If every available alternative distro is actually based on Raspbian as Guspaz said then I bet this Ubuntu-mate is a kind of an 'overlay', isn't it ?

Anyway next I'm going to give the KWEB (browser + media player) solution for Raspbian a try.

I'm not quite sure, it's been a while since I tinkered with my Pi2, but IIRC it's not an overlay but ubuntu proper, adapted for the Pi. But I could be wrong - I'm not that Linux-savy.

I remember it working rather well and indeed transforming the Pi in something desktopish. No skype, though.

I'd recommend ditching raspbian and focusing on ubuntu mate.

Edit: from the ubuntu mate homepage:

"The image is based on the regular Ubuntu armhf base, not the new Snappy Core, which means that the installation procedure for applications is the same as that for the regular desktop version, ie using apt-get. However, since Ubuntu MATE 16.04 snap packages can be installed alongside classic deb packages."

[Xyga]

Ah so this is Ubuntu...

Do you know if the Web Skype client works fully and fine with Chromium ?

(I didn't get if you're still using your Pi actually)

[Drachenherz]

Ah so this is Ubuntu...

Do you know if the Web Skype client works fully and fine with Chromium ?

(I didn't get if you're still using your Pi actually)

I haven't used my pi 2 for ages (about a year) and I never tried the Skype Web client, I'm sorry.

At the time, I was dabbling with ubuntu and mint on my desktop and I was pleasantly surprised with ubuntu mate for the pi - it was really similar to the mate versions on my desktop-pc.

And compared to raspian, it so much more stylish and easier to access. I'd say give it a try and test the skype webclient.

Edit: found something that might be relevant:
https://ubuntu-mate.community/t/skype-i ... u-mate/127

Edit2: skype via webclient will probably NOT work.

[Guspaz]

I didn't mean to say that all distros for the Pi are based on Raspbian, only that many of them (like RetroPie) are, and that most Pi are installed with Raspbian.

[Xyga]

So I gave the KWEB suite a try;

Installation requires you to look for the installation files you've downloaded as they don't land in the expected 'download' folder (that puzzled me since it wasn't clear in the description at all).
After a few minutes with both apps I have to admit they're better both for browsing the internet and playing media files (compared to the default browser or the player I've used before).
The player integrated to the browser allows you to play online streaming videos with it rather than letting the usual scripts do the job, and it's much better/smoother like that (the bundled GTK3 version can even handle HTML5 videos).

Time is required to properly configure the whole thing (the manual is f* huge), for instance I haven't been able to play movies or YT videos 100% in fullscreen, only maxed out, I suppose there is a way but I'm not sure, at this point nothing can surprise me.
EDIT: found the full screen setting, last problem solved. It's really a competent player for most video file formats and streaming sites. Size and ratio controls for all streaming videos is a great plus.
Got a few freezes from the browser though.

Note: I have observed that in general with Raspbian changing settings, whether it's system/OS ones, or app's, will not necessarily work immediately, sometimes several restarts and reboots are necessary. Some settings also undo themselves for whatever reason.

Haven't had the chance to test the web skype client since I don't have an USB webcam and mic (neither does the guy I'm doing all that shit for, duh!)

So I'm not done testing the Pi 3 Raspbian as a desktop solution yet, but I can tell it's neither n00b-friendly nor stable-enough for considering it a viable super-low-budget computer solution for the masses.
Even an Android machine a few years old will do much better than it, even a bottom-end one of today will...

I know this is not the kind of product the project was intended for, BUT, honestly I'm feeling it is quite close to that 'level'.
It would require a little bit more power and optimization, and more importantly efforts to provide a much more friendly experience with things that work out of the box, like the basic popular uses/apps I've been working on these past few hours (I mean: why include the shittiest browser ever and no useable GUI for the native player? congratulations on making it a worse welcome than the WMP & Explorer duo!)
The lack of those simple things consitute a barrier to maybe 99% of wannabe cheap computer users on Earth, they're better off with a bigger distro on a more common computer architecture/cpu, or with an Android machine.
And no, the super low entry price is not enough to make up for the lackings if you consider the cheapest Windows or Android solutions, or even barebone hardware ones supporting 'full' linuxes, can be found at under 200€ without much effort.
A working Pi 3 rig can be had for 50€ if you really go for the minimum with not too big SD card, shitty keyboard/mouse and cam/mic. Okay.
But slightly better stuff will easily put you near 80~90€...the same price range as the bottom-end Android tablets, add another 80~90€ and you can have the cheapest Windows netbooks with HDMI out, a microsoft OEM license, more power and immense compatibility with most of the software people in the world use.
The 'foundation', if they ever have an ambition to bring it to that level or close-enough so that it would be a respected replacement product, absolutely need to consider to do everything they can to do what I've suggested, including pushing ports of popular real-world apps, or provide an absolutely fantastic and free x86 emulator.

In fewer words; the Pi might be an okay ultra-cheap micro-computer for single specific tasks (like using a dedicated OS for games or music, automation, language learning etc) but as a generic computer for all basic computer uses it is not there yet.
...well, to be fair it'll be an okay desktop for the niche nerds who have a lot of time to waste.

In my case since it's not mine and I don't have much more time to dedicate to it now, I'll pass on trying Ubuntu-Mate, it is certainly the most polished mini-distro for the Pi as we speak, the internets also confirms, but it doesn't really expand the Pi's possibilities, like making some popular apps finally useable. Even VLC, which is 'working' there, has to pass the hand to Raspbian's native player because it can't handle HD files as well.