I only use HDMI transcoding to feed 720p Wii U and 360 signals into a Gefen DVI to VGA Scaler Plus - Brightness is definitely increased, and the colors are washed out, my perception of "softness" could be based on that. Other scenarios might be okay, and perhaps adjusting some settings can compensate, but I can't be arsed to do any further testing. I mean, for $10 you can hardly complain, but if you already have a Fury...Das Muel wrote:I'm using my XPC-4 to transcode at the moment, but the image from the El Cheapo VGA adapter I've used is not notably worse (and personally I don't need the other features you've referred to). Bear in mind that that particular model (if we do in fact have the same one) is an extremely cheap, generic converter. There are many, many others out there. I think the HDFurys are extortionately priced and there's something of a placebo effect involved, but each to their own.
OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
The monitor does not detect the modes correctly - the active area is 1280x720.deltronik wrote:Here is what my eMachines E211H shows in line triple, I had to set the genesis to 4:3 generic and the nesrgb to 16:9 generic modes to get the correct aspect ratios for each for some reason:
GenesisNESRGBSpoiler
Spoiler
Is that using AV3 or AV1, and what's reported if you press 'info'?fafangus wrote:I've got problem with 480i signal (only tested saturn for the moment), the picture is cut in 2, some tips for that ?
I'll add these to wishlist on wiki, along with N64 de-interpolation feature.ZellSF wrote:I was sure I posted this already:
1: Repeating my request for 240p passthrough, it's not an essential feature but if easy to do would be useful for connecting the OSSC to a scaler that can do better with a unmodified picture that either lacks RGB input or has a terrible A/D stage. Example being connecting to a XRGB-mini. I know there's basically no scaler that fits that criteria, so again not an important feature at all, but if it's easy to implement...?
2: I asked for discrete IR buttons for line3x off and on, while I still think that should be implemented, if you want to conserve IR buttons then having discrete buttons for profiles would be more important. Example being a line2x/scanline profile and a separate line3x profile to easily switch between.
SC-512N1 has that strange coloring issue if input has 341*5=1705 dots per line, and there seems to be nothing you could do about that (I also tried generating the mode via PC to verify the problem isn't related to OSSC). 256x240 mode using SNES was not stable with my SC-512N1 either.Calle W wrote:I know marqs used the SC-512N1 when he gave us a sneak peak at what the OSSC could do, so maybe he could shed some light on this. Any kind of help would be appreciated.
EDIT: Just took a quick look at the compability spreadsheet and saw this: "SC-512N1 receiver bandwidth set to 125% to avoid dropouts caused by uneven hsync from PPU" from marqs own test of the SNES. I wonder why my setup is giving me weird colors in the same mode.
Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
lol didn't know there was source info, I'll tell you what it saysmarqs wrote:fafangus wrote:
I've got problem with 480i signal (only tested saturn for the moment), the picture is cut in 2, some tips for that ?
Is that using AV3 or AV1, and what's reported if you press 'info'?
Tested in the two inputs (rgbs, yuv for AV1, rgbhv for AV3), maybe it's causing by the CII, but the PS2 is showing her menu in 480i & the pal DQ8 game in 576i, tonight I'll try directly to TV
On Saturn, I have tested DBZ shin (240p to 480i when loading the fight), Digital Pinball (576i), and VF2(480i title screen & ingame & 240p characters selection)
Edit : ok connected roughtly the saturn to the OSSC > works fine !! Great 480i & 576i !!
now I've got to find a way to hook the audio to my setup xp
Bonus : https://youtu.be/YJbu3wtf3mk
Sonic 2 multiplayer ^^
Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
Oh yeah, I remember now. I think you wrote that just a few days after I signed up for the device. 1704 and 1706 were fine if I recall correctly. So this should affect the NES as well right? I wonder if the issue is present on the portable versions of the card.marqs wrote:SC-512N1 has that strange coloring issue if input has 341*5=1705 dots per line, and there seems to be nothing you could do about that (I also tried generating the mode via PC to verify the problem isn't related to OSSC). 256x240 mode using SNES was not stable with my SC-512N1 either.
Anyway, thanks for making such a delightful little device. It's by far my best purchase in years!
Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
Is it possible to use the OSSC to output 240p from a 480i component signal?
Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
Full size images: http://imgur.com/a/oiqzn
Monitor is a BVME250A
PS2 component 240p > OSSC output for the images above. (Scan line strength - 25%)
Unfortunately linetriple does not seem to be working, however the monitor has its own built in linex2 as seen above which can be used in conjunction to produce 960
Also @marqs, I had mistakenly plugged in a JP21 into the scart socket, (as of now everything seems to be working component side) this would not have damaged the ossc by any chance would it?
Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
Errm, that's a still-on-the-market $23,400 monitor... and it should support 240p (well, it does 480i) natively... Is the OSSC adding any value there?
Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
I know VGA adapters won't work, but I got one more so I tried it, this one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Convertisseur-H ... SwbsBXl1kh
It actually doesn't work with 480p at all. More fun, if you connect it it turns on the OSSC's power LED and display backlight. So yeah, don't get this adapter.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Convertisseur-H ... SwbsBXl1kh
It actually doesn't work with 480p at all. More fun, if you connect it it turns on the OSSC's power LED and display backlight. So yeah, don't get this adapter.
Didn't he more or less write that? He uses OSSC's linedouble in combination with his display's 2X function for a 4X scale.Guspaz wrote:Errm, that's a still-on-the-market $23,400 monitor... and it should support 240p (well, it does 480i) natively... Is the OSSC adding any value there?
Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
Still slightly confused by the Dreamcast aspect ratio thing. When I set the OSSC to DTV for 480p, the image is fantastic but the aspect ratio is squished on a 16:9 display. If I set to VGA, it is in the correct ratio but the sampling is a little messed-up. Is there any way around this other than adjusting with another processor?
*Edit: If I convert the OSSC's DVI into VGA, feed it into my XPC-4 and pass it through (unprocessed) to my TV, the aspect ratio is correct. Weird. Loving how you can get PC CRT-style thin scanlines with the 480pX2 feature.
*Edit: If I convert the OSSC's DVI into VGA, feed it into my XPC-4 and pass it through (unprocessed) to my TV, the aspect ratio is correct. Weird. Loving how you can get PC CRT-style thin scanlines with the 480pX2 feature.
I am the geezer from the Retro Muel Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIg73A ... u89QcCBD3A
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIg73A ... u89QcCBD3A
Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
can't you connect the OSSC via DVI-D to DVI-D to the XPC-4 and still get VGA from it ? Or just not unprocessed any longer ?If I convert the OSSC's DVI into VGA, feed it into my XPC-4 and pass it through (unprocessed) to my TV
The whole input sampling on the Dreamcast has been discussed a lot, but it's hardly understood. I *think* THIS explains it about right. Point being that even VESA sampling doesn't get the AR right (and you're losing resolution on top of it). The lower part (OSSC in VESA sampling mode) is also what happens on all TVs with VGA input, most LCD monitors with VGA inputs and all the cheap VGA to HDMI converters out there.
Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
Yikes, what did you do Sega? lol
Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
on a CRT (and with this on all Naomi cabs) this isn't a problem at all since there's no digital sampling applied and you can adjust the AR till it fits the screen.
Converters with a frame buffer (XPC-4, Gefen Scaler and others) can sample the input correctly with DTV timings and then "re-package" the UNSCALED image into a VESA timing 640x480 output. This way LCDs can display a correct 1,33:1 aspect ratio for the Dreamcast's active image area. The OSSC v2 will certainly be able to do the same
Converters with a frame buffer (XPC-4, Gefen Scaler and others) can sample the input correctly with DTV timings and then "re-package" the UNSCALED image into a VESA timing 640x480 output. This way LCDs can display a correct 1,33:1 aspect ratio for the Dreamcast's active image area. The OSSC v2 will certainly be able to do the same
Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
^^
Hold up, there's a V2 on the way already? I think there's less than 100 people who actually have the V1!
Hold up, there's a V2 on the way already? I think there's less than 100 people who actually have the V1!
Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
no, sorry. Didn't mean to confuse anybody. You can call it wishful thinking from my side
Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
I think it could be implemented on the current hardware, but it would need some PLL trickery to get the timing right. Alternatively you could sample the signal with DTV timing and output only 640 active pixels on the output, but that would be a non-standard video signal (720x480 timing with larger horizontal front-/backporch)Fudoh wrote:The OSSC v2 will certainly be able to do the same :mrgreen:
GCVideo releases: https://github.com/ikorb/gcvideo/releases
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
What is the advantage of converting it to VESA? Just so you will not have borders in 16:9?Unseen wrote:I think it could be implemented on the current hardware, but it would need some PLL trickery to get the timing right. Alternatively you could sample the signal with DTV timing and output only 640 active pixels on the output, but that would be a non-standard video signal (720x480 timing with larger horizontal front-/backporch)Fudoh wrote:The OSSC v2 will certainly be able to do the same
Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
it would give you a proper 4:3 ratio (1.33:1) instead of 1.25:1 or 1.18:1 in the samples above.
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
Does 720x480p on an LCD then assume non square pixels?Fudoh wrote:it would give you a proper 4:3 ratio (1.33:1) instead of 1.25:1 or 1.18:1 in the samples above.
Otherwise, I do not see how it does not result in a 4:3 ratio. If you would display 720x480p with square pixels, but only having an active image of 640x480 (so padded with black borders) you would have a proper 4:3 ratio, right?
Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
yes, always. It's either 4:3 or 16:9, but not 3:2 (which would assume square pixels).Does 720x480p on an LCD then assume non square pixels?
right, but show me a display which can do that!If you would display 720x480p with square pixels, but only having an active image of 640x480 (so padded with black borders) you would have a proper 4:3 ratio, right?
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
This is rather interesting. Wouldn't the GameCube suffer from this problem too? Afaik, it uses 858 pixels per line, but usually games have an active resolution of less than 720x480. Or does GameCube already assume non square pixels, whereas Dreamcast assumes square pixels?Fudoh wrote:yes, always. It's either 4:3 or 16:9, but not 3:2 (which would assume square pixels).Does 720x480p on an LCD then assume non square pixels?
right, but show me a display which can do that!If you would display 720x480p with square pixels, but only having an active image of 640x480 (so padded with black borders) you would have a proper 4:3 ratio, right?
Also, what about interlaced mode on Dreamcast. Same problem?
Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
800/858 ratio cannot be exactly achieved with Cyclone IV PLL, so a dedicated horizontal genlock PLL (freely selectable divisor using hsync reference) would be needed. Similar operation in vertical direction would allow setting the number of output scanlines which would greatly increase compatibility.Unseen wrote:I think it could be implemented on the current hardware, but it would need some PLL trickery to get the timing right. Alternatively you could sample the signal with DTV timing and output only 640 active pixels on the output, but that would be a non-standard video signal (720x480 timing with larger horizontal front-/backporch)Fudoh wrote:The OSSC v2 will certainly be able to do the same
Marking the active length to 640 in 858-pixel scanline will be possible with current HW when timing tweaker gets implemented, but display compatibility will be probably on par with linetriple.
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
You can cascade two PLLs. Probably even more if necessary, but your clock jitter might become too much.marqs wrote:800/858 ratio cannot be exactly achieved with Cyclone IV PLL, so a dedicated horizontal genlock PLL (freely selectable divisor using hsync reference) would be needed. Similar operation in vertical direction would allow setting the number of output scanlines which would greatly increase compatibility.Unseen wrote:I think it could be implemented on the current hardware, but it would need some PLL trickery to get the timing right. Alternatively you could sample the signal with DTV timing and output only 640 active pixels on the output, but that would be a non-standard video signal (720x480 timing with larger horizontal front-/backporch)Fudoh wrote:The OSSC v2 will certainly be able to do the same
Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
first of all the GC doesn't output in RGBHV, but in component (or HDMI with a mod) and with component (or HDMI) a TV never assumes a VESA timing. Also the Cube assumes 720x480p to be 4:3 and uses it accordingly, while the DC (and that's the actual problem) assumes a square pixel ratio (your 3:2 -> 4:3 theory from above) and considers the borders between 640x480 and 720x480 to be overscan.This is rather interesting. Wouldn't the GameCube suffer from this problem too? Afaik, it uses 858 pixels per line, but usually games have an active resolution of less than 720x480. Or does GameCube already assume non square pixels, whereas Dreamcast assumes square pixels?
Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
http://imgur.com/a/5UBIw
Component 480i comparison
Left is 480i output via OSSC, right is 480i component output directly to the monitor via input card
It is essentially as zell had said. Although, the OSSC is considerably less expensive than the input card that is required for RGB/Component.Guspaz wrote:-
Is there any benefit to the "even scanline" setting? As "odd" provides an extra line of signal
Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
What is x3 mode supposed to look like? When I use it for 240p stuff it just makes a super sharp small image in the center of the screen. It's not terribly big and I usually play on a 55 inch HD screen
Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
in terms of visible height it should look identical to 480p output. Maybe your display treats it differently because it doesn't detect it as a ED/HD resolution. But you should have zoom controls available somewhere nevertheless.
Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
I don't know if this has been reported, but with FW 0.71 there is a bug on using odd horizontal scanlines with lineX3 mode.
Scanline will be set on the 2nd line instead of the 3rd line as expected.
Also, while I tested some arcade PCBs (M92, System 18, Toaplan V2, SPI) I had only 1 issue : the SPI gave me a black screen (on a BenQ G2400W) without any red led, either through AV1 RGBS or AV3 RGBHV (through Sync Strike), the only way to make it work was to upscale it first to 31khz (Micomsoft DISPL to AV3 RGBHV).
Note : this is minor and performance/features have been nothing but stellar since I started using OSSC.
Scanline will be set on the 2nd line instead of the 3rd line as expected.
Also, while I tested some arcade PCBs (M92, System 18, Toaplan V2, SPI) I had only 1 issue : the SPI gave me a black screen (on a BenQ G2400W) without any red led, either through AV1 RGBS or AV3 RGBHV (through Sync Strike), the only way to make it work was to upscale it first to 31khz (Micomsoft DISPL to AV3 RGBHV).
Note : this is minor and performance/features have been nothing but stellar since I started using OSSC.
My sales thread : 2020/07/20..MASTER.VER.
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ceramiclion
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
I got my OSSC today and I have been having an issue that I haven't read here yet.
When I use the SNES (while playing MegaMan X3) I get an issue that when I shoot a charged up shot the screen desyncs and goes back for a second. I tried on 3 tvs and all did this. I then hooked it up with my DVDO Edge and it does the same thing...
So then I hooked it up with my sync strike and it works fine even in line trippler mode...
The genesis works perfectly.
The PSX however is having the same issue on SCART as the SNES on Symphony of the night.
Is this normal?
Thank you.
When I use the SNES (while playing MegaMan X3) I get an issue that when I shoot a charged up shot the screen desyncs and goes back for a second. I tried on 3 tvs and all did this. I then hooked it up with my DVDO Edge and it does the same thing...
So then I hooked it up with my sync strike and it works fine even in line trippler mode...
The genesis works perfectly.
The PSX however is having the same issue on SCART as the SNES on Symphony of the night.
Is this normal?
Thank you.
Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
Have you tried increasing sync lpf in OSSC's settings?ceramiclion wrote:I got my OSSC today and I have been having an issue that I haven't read here yet.
When I use the SNES (while playing MegaMan X3) I get an issue that when I shoot a charged up shot the screen desyncs and goes back for a second. I tried on 3 tvs and all did this. I then hooked it up with my DVDO Edge and it does the same thing...
So then I hooked it up with my sync strike and it works fine even in line trippler mode...
The genesis works perfectly.
The PSX however is having the same issue on SCART as the SNES on Symphony of the night.
Is this normal?
Thank you.
Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
Yes, it's possible to get exact 800/858 ratio by cascading 2 PLLs (e.g. (40/78)*(20/11)) but it's not a generic solution which works for every ratio.meneerbeer wrote:You can cascade two PLLs. Probably even more if necessary, but your clock jitter might become too much.
Good note - I'll add that to bug list.parodius wrote:I don't know if this has been reported, but with FW 0.71 there is a bug on using odd horizontal scanlines with lineX3 mode.
Scanline will be set on the 2nd line instead of the 3rd line as expected.
SPI (Viper Phase 1) worked on an old fw so I'll need to check that again when I have a chance.parodius wrote:Also, while I tested some arcade PCBs (M92, System 18, Toaplan V2, SPI) I had only 1 issue : the SPI gave me a black screen (on a BenQ G2400W) without any red led, either through AV1 RGBS or AV3 RGBHV (through Sync Strike), the only way to make it work was to upscale it first to 31khz (Micomsoft DISPL to AV3 RGBHV).
Those are usually signs of a low quality cable which has insufficient shielding, but you can try setting sync LPF to max and possibly reduce sync vth to see if it helps.ceramiclion wrote:I got my OSSC today and I have been having an issue that I haven't read here yet.
When I use the SNES (while playing MegaMan X3) I get an issue that when I shoot a charged up shot the screen desyncs and goes back for a second. I tried on 3 tvs and all did this. I then hooked it up with my DVDO Edge and it does the same thing...
So then I hooked it up with my sync strike and it works fine even in line trippler mode...
The genesis works perfectly.
The PSX however is having the same issue on SCART as the SNES on Symphony of the night.
Is this normal?