XRGB-mini Framemeister

[jeffsmith3141]

Hi all,

I upgraded the firmware of my Framemeister to 2.03. I've noticed the HDMI inputs don't seem to work anymore. Neither HDMI 1 or HDMI 2 inputs work. The Framemeister always displays "no_input" regardless of what I connect to them. I don't know if this is a recent issue, but I remember them working at some point in the past.

Is there a setting I need to change? Or, is this a known issue?

Thanks.

[jdawg131]

Hi FBX,

Many thanks for this its much appreciated. I presume these are for Firmware v2.03a. I'm currently on 2.00a, is it actually worth the upgrade as I'm pretty happy with all my other 720p profiles for other consoles at this version. Is there any chance I could take you up on your offer of a 720p profile please if it is not too much trouble?

Thanks.

It should work for your older revision, but you should get into the habit of updating the firmware. You can do it from the menu under "CPU_Update" where you turn that on and then just power off the Framemeister and it will start the update process from your microSD card.

But anyway, I'll dig out the Toro and see what I can work up for you tomorrow.

Thanks FBX, you are a real legend. Again I genuinely appreciate all the help on here, a great bunch of people! Hopefully you can cook something up to keep the correct screen size and aspect ratio for the DC with nice scanlines at 720p being fed the VGA 720X480p signal from the Toro.

I'm glad I got the Toro because previously I was plugging the DC directly into my TVs VGA input which seemed ok but the aspect ratio was slightly too narrow due to the quirky VGA signal from the Dreamcast, also there are very limited options to reposition the image on the TV via this input. Basically the Dreamcast hooked up to the Framemeister via a Toro using 480p looks way better I recommend all DC owners to get one or another sync combiner device.

I'm definitely interested in testing out a 720p DC profile. As much as I love my Toro, I think that the XRGB Mini has the better scanlines (particularly when its set to 720p).

[RGB32E]

I made it through the first one and a half but it seemed like it was aimed towards school children so I turned it off. It didn't seem like they were actually gonna give any instruction. Are there any written guides with specific instructions on how to set up the frame meister?

Just plug it in and start using it.
The best way to come to grips with the FM is to just start messing around with it and see what it can do.

You should also keep in mind that profiles are just other users preferred settings.

I don't think I could have stated this better! The Zoom and Visual Set menus are where most of the magic occurs when adjusting geometry and it's actually much simpler than new users realize. Then again, there's always the George C. Parker types as well as those who never set the clock on their VCRs and wonder why it's flashing.

The XRGB-mini comes with a manual - http://micomsoft.co.jp/XRGB-mini_m4.pdf Perhaps a translated manual would be useful for new users?

[peterwright1234]

A translated manual would be cool. What about the firmwares and profiles? any info I need to know about getting those set up?

[FBX]

I'm definitely interested in testing out a 720p DC profile. As much as I love my Toro, I think that the XRGB Mini has the better scanlines (particularly when its set to 720p).

Sorry I didn't get it done today. Bunch of family business came up and so I will be sure to get it set up tomorrow. Thanks for being patient!

[jdawg131]

I'm definitely interested in testing out a 720p DC profile. As much as I love my Toro, I think that the XRGB Mini has the better scanlines (particularly when its set to 720p).

Sorry I didn't get it done today. Bunch of family business came up and so I will be sure to get it set up tomorrow. Thanks for being patient!

LOL. No worries man. There is no rush. You're the one doing the work, and I'm just here benefiting from your contributions. I should be the one thanking you; not the other way around.

[masqdgamer]

A translated manual would be cool. What about the firmwares and profiles? any info I need to know about getting those set up?

Here's a link regarding FW updates. The process is pretty easy.
http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/XRGB ... irmware.3F

There are also some walk throughs on YT if you're having trouble.

As far as profiles go, once you have the new FW installed you can put custom profiles on the SD card and load them from the "Data" option.

[masqdgamer]

Hi all,

I upgraded the firmware of my Framemeister to 2.03. I've noticed the HDMI inputs don't seem to work anymore. Neither HDMI 1 or HDMI 2 inputs work. The Framemeister always displays "no_input" regardless of what I connect to them. I don't know if this is a recent issue, but I remember them working at some point in the past.

Is there a setting I need to change? Or, is this a known issue?

Thanks.

I get a weird issue sometimes where my FM won't recognize the inputs. I can tell when this is going to happen because when I plug it in the 4 red lights on the front will sequentially light up really fast 1-2-3-4. When it does this, no inputs will recognize.

To "clear" this error I normally have to unplug the AC adpater and re-plug it in a few times till the red lights light up 1----2----3----4 (a noticeable cadence between light ups). Then it works.

Not sure if I have a semi defective unit or what. It has always done this and thats the workaround that I have found.

[FBX]

Okay, note to Lars:

So I'm working on the Dreamcast right now, and I have to apologize for brain-farting and not realizing the simple math before even looking at it:

Dreamcast VGA (640x480) at 2x vertical = 960, which is obviously too large for 720p output. You'd be losing 240 lines of graphics in total from the top and bottom of the screen. It is therefore impossible to get uniform scanlines at anything other than 1x scale, or 2x with large portions of the screen cropped off. I investigated "Normal_2" mode you mentioned, and even it does not have uniform scanlines. You can tell because the scanline options for "INT" & "Smooth" are greyed out in favor of the decimal scanline options (these become active when your image is not integer scaled on the vertical axis). On my set up, I could tell the scanlines were not uniform just visually.

So basically what it boils down to is simple math: 720p Scanlines will NOT be even if the game is 480i/p unless the DC image is 1x scaled (or 2x scaled using the Zoom functions top crop 240 lines from the image).

The best I can offer you if you don't want to use 1x or 2x, is to make the zoom equivalent of 1.5x vertical to reach 720, but the odd scanlines will be slightly larger than the even ones.

[FBX]

Update: Two notes:

1. 1x scale material cannot have scanlines applied because there's obviously no room for scanlines in between the pixels.

2. I found that the DEC scanlines are cutting off half the graphics of 480 material, and this was even happening in Lars's screenshots. On his Street Fighter game, it wasn't affecting the sprites negatively since they are drawn at 240p, but the background 480p information was getting cut in half. Effectively this means you MUST scale to 2x if you want graphic data intact and uniform scanlines.

[Fudoh]

yes & no - If your goal are 240p-type scanlines for the DC though, then it should be possible to do a nice 720p profile. The screenshots a few postings ago were taken from a low-res KOF anyway, so he obviously wanted 240p-type scanlines for those games, despite the actual input resolution being 480i/p.

If you have any of the SNK games that's VGA compatible, just use that and see what you can do with a 720p output.

[FBX]

yes & no - If your goal are 240p-type scanlines for the DC though, then it should be possible to do a nice 720p profile.

Again though, you'd be physically overwriting half the graphics on 480 games, not just simply adding in scanlines like we do for actual 240 content. I'd find it against my better judgement cutting out graphics like that for 480 content. It would be like somebody wanting only the center channel feed of a 5.1 surround movie.

[Fudoh]

Most of the SNK titles are native 240p though and just running line doubled in 480p. I'm totally with you on native 480p titles, but Garou for example was an original Neo Geo title after all. KOF 99 and Evo even have low-res 3D backgrounds.

[FBX]

Most of the SNK titles are native 240p though and just running line doubled in 480p. I'm totally with you on native 480p titles, but Garou for example was an original Neo Geo title after all. KOF 99 and Evo even have low-res 3D backgrounds.

Ah. I just remember back when I had SF and Marvel titles for the DC, the backgrounds were in fact 480 content with the fighting characters in 240 res.

[austin532]

That's not a true SNK game. It's Capcom vs. SNK 2 which is based off the Naomi hardware and runs at 480p so there are no scanlines. Applying scanlines would cut off half of the image as FBX said but at the same time I feel like if you did want to add scanlines it would still look good as the characters are 2D sprites.

[Fudoh]

point taken (I was too lazy to go a page back to have another look) - still SOME games warrant scanlines on a DC's 480p signal after all - like the SNK titles I mentioned.

[Larrs888]

Hi all, I just wanted to chime in and continue to express my thanks for all the comments and effort being put in. I love the Dreamcast, I always had issues with the direct VGA input with my TV such as the aspect ratio being too narrow, other TVs sometime don't like the DC VGA output at all but when it works it is nice on the eyes. I thought the Toro and XRGB Mini combo would be a great solution but if it's becoming too much of a hassle to make a profile then no worries, I do really appreciate all the work put into helping me out

Yeah I have a lot of the 2D fighters on the DC, Street Fighter 3, Alpha 3, Capcom VS SNK 1/2, Kof, Garou, MVC etc... Its nice to leave the DC in VGA mode since all the games I have output 480p and then I don't need to swap modes. I kind of like scanlines on native 480p games since the effect hides the aliasing of the games and they appear sharper from a distance. Maybe I'll have to settle with 1080p Normal 2 without scanlines or uneven ones like my second set of screens or perhaps stick to 480p but if I recall the top and bottom of the image was still over scanned. I'll have another play tomorrow evening hopefully.

Edit: Ah, it just clicked with me FBX your comment about half the image missing if scaliness are used on 480p content. I presume that this is what the SLG3000 and Toro do is just overlay scanlines on top of the image thus hiding the information where 240p content has the scanlines on rows between the rendered pixels, please forgive my ignorance as I'm still learning all this stuff. So back in the day say running Sega Naomi games on a CRT cab at 31Khz 480p there would be no visible scanlines despite it being a CRT? It has been a LONG time since I had a CRT VGA monitor so I can't remember.

[FBX]

So what I can't figure out now is how Lar's picture was getting cut off at Normal 2 at 720 on his display. When I set the output to 720 and check the difference between "Standard" and "Normal 2", only the horizontal AR changes while the vertical remains exactly the same. Some sort of display issue with his Bravia perhaps?

At any rate, I want him to try setting DEC_LINE1 to 63 and DEC_LINE2 to 127 and let me know how it looks with ZOOM turned on and the various Zoom functions set to their defaults (100 for both size and overscan).

[jeffsmith3141]

Hello, can someone try plugging an HDMI device into the Framemeister running firmware 2.03 and see if their HDMI 1 or HDMI 2 inputs work. The Framemeister always displays "no_input" regardless of what I connect to them. I know they worked in the past. Thanks.

[FBX]

Hello, can someone try plugging an HDMI device into the Framemeister running firmware 2.03 and see if their HDMI 1 or HDMI 2 inputs work. The Framemeister always displays "no_input" regardless of what I connect to them. I know they worked in the past. Thanks.

Just checked by plugging in the PS4 on mine in HDMI 1. It worked fine in both Direct on and off modes. I'm running 2.03aE

[Larrs888]

So what I can't figure out now is how Lar's picture was getting cut off at Normal 2 at 720 on his display. When I set the output to 720 and check the difference between "Standard" and "Normal 2", only the horizontal AR changes while the vertical remains exactly the same. Some sort of display issue with his Bravia perhaps?

At any rate, I want him to try setting DEC_LINE1 to 63 and DEC_LINE2 to 127 and let me know how it looks with ZOOM turned on and the various Zoom functions set to their defaults (100 for both size and overscan).

Thanks FBX, I'll give this a try tomorrow evening and post some screens. Yes, it's annoying that the tops and bottom seems to get cut at 720p normal, I have noticed it on 3D games but I'll have another test with a pure 2D games to compare. Other consoles seem fine at 720p without having the tops and bottom over scanned but they are outputting 240p such as my Neo Geo and SNES.

[Elite Evil]

Hello, can someone try plugging an HDMI device into the Framemeister running firmware 2.03 and see if their HDMI 1 or HDMI 2 inputs work. The Framemeister always displays "no_input" regardless of what I connect to them. I know they worked in the past. Thanks.

Just checked by plugging in the PS4 on mine in HDMI 1. It worked fine in both Direct on and off modes. I'm running 2.03aE

I used a chromecast through HDMI2 (accidentally lost the HDCP through a splitter) the other day and it worked fine. So that is both accounted for.

[FBX]

Thanks FBX, I'll give this a try tomorrow evening and post some screens. Yes, it's annoying that the tops and bottom seems to get cut at 720p normal, I have noticed it on 3D games but I'll have another test with a pure 2D games to compare.

If you can, take the following pics for me with scanlines turned on and set to DEC_LINE1 at 63 with DEC_LINE2 at 127:

720p output using "Standard" on the Screen_Set options.

720p output using "Normal 2" on the Screen_Set options.

720p output using Zoom turned on with the following settings:

Zoom_Size = 100
Zoom_H_Pos = 50
Zoom_V_pos = 50
Zoom_Width = 37
Zoom_Overscan = 100

Make sure your TV never changes settings between pics. Thanks!

[jeffsmith3141]

Hmm, I wonder if my HDMI input issue is something to do with HDCP? Maybe the Framemeister will report "no_input" if some component is not supporting HDCP correctly. My TV is fairly new though, and HDMI input on the Framemeister used to work. I tried my PS3 outputting at 1080p. Works through the TV no problem, but the Framemeister reports no_input. Maybe my Framemesister is broken--but that seems unlikely as it works with other inputs (everything except HDMI inputs). I also tried 2.03a, 2.03, and 2.02 firmwares. Same result with all of them

[Larrs888]

Thanks FBX, I'll give this a try tomorrow evening and post some screens. Yes, it's annoying that the tops and bottom seems to get cut at 720p normal, I have noticed it on 3D games but I'll have another test with a pure 2D games to compare.

If you can, take the following pics for me with scanlines turned on and set to DEC_LINE1 at 63 with DEC_LINE2 at 127:

720p output using "Standard" on the Screen_Set options.

720p output using "Normal 2" on the Screen_Set options.

720p output using Zoom turned on with the following settings:

Zoom_Size = 100
Zoom_H_Pos = 50
Zoom_V_pos = 50
Zoom_Width = 37
Zoom_Overscan = 100

Make sure your TV never changes settings between pics. Thanks!

Hi FBX, thanks for these settings, I have set the scanline options as mentioned, mine where not too far off. Here are the images and thanks again.

720p Standard: (using Power Stone 2 as the test game set in VGA 480p mode - note the top and bottom is still over scanned)


720p Normal 2:


720p Scanlines:


720p Zoom 100% Overscan 95% - Image now fits properly but Scanlines don't work properly. Note examine the MOON in the top right vs the above screen, the extra space is now visable:


720p Zoom 100% Overscan 95% with Scanlines:


720p Zoom 100%, Overscan 100%, note that the extra space above the Moon is now missing:


1080p Normal 2, Image now correct with space above the Moon and nothing is missing, scanlines not as nice as 720p:


1080p Scanlines:

[morfeo]

Hello, my first post on this board!

I registered because it seems like this board is populated by some of the most knowledgeable people on the amazing upscaling device the Framemeister, and I have a slight problem with mine.

So, the picture does look mostly great. However, I have some slight flickering which is especially noticeable on black backgrounds. Most of my consoles are pal-consoles, which could be the problem since the Framemeister is built for ntsc/60hz, however, it is also noticeable with 60hz sources, just less so. I wonder if anybody have had a similar issue before, and would in particular hope to get some advice on how to get the most of the unit with using pal-sources. Thanks alot! And also thanks for your great profiles FBX!

[FBX]

@ Lars, I think I've figured out what's going on: Your TV itself is overscanning 720 input. You need to find out if there's any sort of setting that will turn that off, otherwise, you won't be able to ever get uniform scanlines without that cropping going on. In short, your TV is to blame.

And by the way, for 1080p, you have to use integer 2x vertical for uniform scanlines. My profile already provides that for Dreamcast in 1080p

[Seraphic]

So last week I ordered two cables from retro_console_accessories's ebay store and they arrived yesterday. One for use with the PS2/PS3 with Sync on Luma with Japanese-21 RGB and the other is for the SNES with CSync again with Japanese-21 RGB. I had been using the official Nintendo SHVC-010 and Sony SCPH-1050 Japanese-21 RGB cables for my SNES and PS2 with my setup for a few years now and turns out both of these official cables are using Composite Sync.

After some initial testing, I had some good results, but also ran into some problems. My setup consists of an XRGB-Mini Framemeister and a Crystalio II VPS 3800 Pro (have not done any testing with this with new cables just yet), a Crosspoint Ultra, two XSync-1 (JP-21 to HD-15), and an RGB 190FV to convert PS2's 480p RBsG to RGBHV. Overall I am very happy with the picture I am getting from both consoles with the new cables, do not notice much noise and the picture is sharp and clean.

I also tried experimenting with these Integer scaling profiles I keep reading about. To be honest the x5 seems a bit too zoomed for my taste and the loss of pixels is a bit of a turn off too, so I like the x4 a little better. I found the RGB profiles for my setup on FBX's website. However, he is missing one profile on there. Which would be PS2, Sync on Luma, RGB 480p Progressive. I also was a bit confused because on the main site he suggest "Color_Output = Auto and Color_Range = Full", but the profiles seem to be set to "Color_Output = RGB and Color_Range = Full on PS2 and Limited on SNES".

But one issue I am having is with the SNES and my setup to the Framemeister. It takes anywhere from 30 seconds to 3 minutes to receive a picture. I did not have this issue with my Nintendo SHVC-010 and received an instant picture, so I was not sure what the problem was. Did a bit of trouble shooting and bypassed my setup and went directly from the SNES to the Framemeister using the new CSync cable and the manufacture's JP-21 to Mini-Din cable and also received a picture after a few seconds. Not sure what the problem might be here. Could the CSync give the XSync-1 trouble? The console is still outputting RGBs, so that didn't change. Must be an issue in the chain somewhere or the one of my two Xsync-1 itself is failing.

[jdawg131]

@ Lars, I think I've figured out what's going on: Your TV itself is overscanning 720 input. You need to find out if there's any sort of setting that will turn that off, otherwise, you won't be able to ever get uniform scanlines without that cropping going on. In short, your TV is to blame.

And by the way, for 1080p, you have to use integer 2x vertical for uniform scanlines. My profile already provides that for Dreamcast in 1080p

It's his TV. I have a Sony XBR850B and used your supplied 720p settings. When the TV's screen setting is set to -1 the top and bottom are cut off; when it's set to +1, it fits perfectly. Needless to say, the picture quality is better using your standard 1080p profile. It looks sharper and the scanlines are better coming from the Toro. Using Capcom vs SNK 2 as a test, with the XRGB Mini's DEC LINE / SMOOTH settings, the overlays don't look good; especially the top part (GP, SP, Gd, Pr). Using your 1080p profile and the Toro's scanlines, the overlays are much crisper. Damn Capcom with their 480p overlays and backgrounds with 240p sprites on top. LOL.

[Everblue]

I just got a Neo Geo AES system which came with a CSYNC RGB Scart cable (this is a custom cable as my AES is modded to output stereo from the back). When hooked directly to a TV picture is perfect, but when connected to Framemeister with a RetroGamingCable's CSYNC Scart adapter (also with built in sync stripper) the picture has like a ghosting effect to the right which is quite annoying. Is this because of double CSYNC? I have no other cables to test with. Thanks for any help guys =)

Please see image below:



PS. I don't get this effect with my other consoles (RGB Modded PC Engine and Megadrive)