Buying used CRT in Canada and bringing back to U.S.

[Brad251]

I live close to the border of Canada and am within a reasonable distance of Toronto. I have been looking for a Toshiba 27AF44 CRT. I have heard a lot of good things about this TV and understand it to be one of the highest end NTSC CRTs you can get. The guys from GameSack and My Life and Gaming use this one.

I have been looking in my area in the U.S. and this TV never comes up on Craigslist. However, in the Ontario/Toronto area, there are a bunch of them and for cheap or free. I want to pick one up off Craigslist in Canada but am concerned about bringing the TV back across the border. I am afraid that the customs people will either not let me bring the TV across the border or take it apart for fear that I would be hiding something illegal inside of it. Does anybody have any experience with this?

[tacoguy64]

I was thinking of going to canada to pick up some Candy Cabs earlier this year but backed out once I realized I would not end up saving all that much money and a trip to Canada is about 4-5 hour drive and in the end I just back away. Anyways I can't answer your question, maybe but I know customs is a whole lot stricter now from what i read.

[bobrocks95]

If they were to open it, that's a fairly easy process. Just tell them not to electrocute themselves by touching something

[austin532]

The 27AF44 is the best Toshiba TV out there to get from what I hear but nothing can top a Trinitron. To me it looks like they were trying to copy Sony's FV lineup. It even has the slanted bottom to.

[Brad251]

The 27AF44 is the best Toshiba TV out there to get from what I hear but nothing can top a Trinitron. To me it looks like they were trying to copy Sony's FV lineup. It even has the slanted bottom to.

I have a Trinitron KV-27FV310 that I have had for a few months and I am not happy with it. More specifically, I am not happy with the way reds look on the TV. They are either too overblown with the AXNT service menu option turned on or too dull with it turned off. It is sad because other than this issue I have with reds, the image quality on the TV is fantastic. I have even calibrated the grayscale on the FV310 with a colorimeter and adjusted the user menu settings with Artemio's 240p suite but there is nothing else I can do to fix this problem as far as I know. The FV310 does not have separate color controls for red, green and blue so I know no way to individually adjust reds without using the red drive and cut controls which will alter the grayscale. I had a Trinitron kv-24fs100 before this set and was happier with the picture on that set; mainly because reds looked better on that set and I felt the colors were more balanced.

I think that if you can find a Trinitron other than the FV310 that doesn't have issues displaying reds and doesn't have any major geometry problems (many do and this is a serious drawback), then it is a great option but I also think that flat screen SD TVs from Toshiba, Sharp, JVC, Panasonic, Philips, etc., don't get enough attention and can still provide a great picture. Toshiba also uses the slot mask technology instead of the aperture grill technology and I am interested in seeing how that looks on a flat screen crt.

[austin532]

I have the KV-24FV300 and I know what you mean about the overblown colors. I believe this is a Sony thing and is still present in their HDTV's today. Turning down the brightness and contrast helps but not much. The main reason for picking this up is I heard that the FV lineup is higher end compared to the FS lineup. Any TV above 20" will almost always have geometry problems and the bigger the TV size the worse it will be. I got mine looking pretty good, not perfect but that's near impossible anyways. It still has some minor issues and I'm tempted to drop it off at a local repair shop and say "Here, take my money and make it like brand new again."

I'm curious to see how the Toshiba looks like. While the aperture grille looks amazing for 480i content, I sometimes feel it's too bright for 240p games and looks a little off. Since it's brighter the scanlines are thinner and less visible. If you decide to pick it up, be sure to post some pics.

[Taiyaki]

The 27AF44 is the best Toshiba TV out there to get from what I hear but nothing can top a Trinitron. To me it looks like they were trying to copy Sony's FV lineup. It even has the slanted bottom to.

I have a Trinitron KV-27FV310 that I have had for a few months and I am not happy with it. More specifically, I am not happy with the way reds look on the TV. They are either too overblown with the AXNT service menu option turned on or too dull with it turned off. It is sad because other than this issue I have with reds, the image quality on the TV is fantastic. I have even calibrated the grayscale on the FV310 with a colorimeter and adjusted the user menu settings with Artemio's 240p suite but there is nothing else I can do to fix this problem as far as I know. The FV310 does not have separate color controls for red, green and blue so I know no way to individually adjust reds without using the red drive and cut controls which will alter the grayscale. I had a Trinitron kv-24fs100 before this set and was happier with the picture on that set; mainly because reds looked better on that set and I felt the colors were more balanced.

Wow I hadn't realized your problem was that pronounced. Sony generally shipped these sets with pronounced reds but it shouldn't be anything service menu tweaking can't fix. I don't have this problem on any of my sets (I have 3 FV300's and have seen games run on an FV310) and in recent years alone I have had many other sets of lesser builds to try out such as the FS100 and FS120 and a Toshiba which all had reds ranging from mediocre to poor so I've seen what real bad reds look like. Somehow I doubt this but could the FV310 actually have less good reds than the FV300 (I thought they used the same quality tubes)? Unless perhaps the difference comes from the boards, maybe some flaw or side effect to the high voltage regulator that isn't well documented? Or perhaps there is just age to your tube maybe? If you could find another FV310 or perhaps even better an FV300 to compare it to that might help.

As for what sets are good I would say obviously the Trinitron (preferably the FV line), or Panasonic Tau sets. I haven't had the greatest experience with Toshiba sets but others seem to believe that the good ones are very similar to the good Trinitron sets.

[FinalBaton]

Reds on my FV300 also look quite a bit dull compared to my good RGB monitors, a PVM-1354Q and an NEC XM37 Plus (I think it's important to put things in perspective here).

But my FV300 actually compared very favourably to the PVM-2030 I had (through S-video). I'd say they looked pretty much the same
(maybe my 2030 had weak tubes? or maybe it was runing at it's full potential, I can't say).

Also maybe my FV300 itself has weak tubes. If that's the case than a brand new set might have slightly better reds. But I doubt they would look much better than what I'm seeing now.

[FinalBaton]

There's a Toshiba CRT at my local dinner that has a gorgeous picture, I should really ask them what model it is (although they would probably give me a funny look not sure I will ask on second thought)

[Ikaruga11]

I wonder if the 300 or 310 is worth getting.

[FinalBaton]

I wonder if the 300 or 310 is worth getting.

For a consumer set it looks really good

But there might be better ones out there, I haven't tried them all.

[Brad251]

I might have better luck with an FV300 but at this point I think I will just stay away from Trinitron CRTs and try a different brand for all the hassle it takes for me to get the CRT and move it into my basement. Also, this could be a preference thing. Maybe I just don't prefer the way reds look on the FV310, whereas someone else might be completely fine with the way they look. I think we all perceive colors differently to some extent.

Taiyaki, do you remember which model Toshiba CRT you had and how the reds looked on that TV?

[austin532]

I wonder if the 300 or 310 is worth getting.

For a consumer set it looks really good

But there might be better ones out there, I haven't tried them all.

This is interesting. For years I always heard that Trinitrons were the top dog of CRT TV's now people are saying the Toshiba's might be better.

I also hear people say that games look better on bubble CRT's which I admit I have a nostalgia for but as long as the geometry is correct on the flat CRT, they look fine.

[Brad251]

This is interesting. For years I always heard that Trinitrons were the top dog of CRT TV's now people are saying the Toshiba's might be better.

I also hear people say that games look better on bubble CRT's which I admit I have a nostalgia for but as long as the geometry is correct on the flat CRT, they look fine.

It is interesting. If you can get a Trinitron that doesn't have major issues displaying reds and doesn't have major geometry problems, it might still be the best option but there are definitely some good flat screen CRTs from other manufacturers. Some of it might be that Sony has for the most part always been associated with producing quality electronics and people assume that Trinitrons are the best flat screen CRTs because they are made by Sony. There is also a lot of word of mouth on internet forums that Trinitrons are the best. Although, nobody can say which TVs are best unless they have actually tested out models from all the major brands. If a nice flat screen CRT comes up on Craigslist from a brand like Toshiba, JVC, Sharp or Panasonic then anyone looking for a nice CRT shouldn't hesitate to pick it up. Hell, I have read a few forum posts of people saying they are happy with their flat screen Sanyo CRT.

[bobrocks95]

I've seen one FV300/310 in my life, and you all are talking like you've gone through 3 a piece

[Brad251]

I've seen one FV300/310 in my life, and you all are talking like you've gone through 3 a piece

I would imagine that if you are patient and keep searching Craigslist, you will find one eventually. They don't come up very often in my area and I did have to travel 50 miles away to get it. If you are willing to travel up to 100 miles from where you live, you will have a much better chance of finding a TV you are looking for.

[austin532]

The FV300's show up on Craig's List every now and then. That's where I got mine. It was hardly used and in Near Mint condition for $50 which is a little step for an old CRT but considering it's a high end Trinitron and that these are getting harder to find I think it was worth it.

I've never seen the FV310 on Craig's list and trust me I was searching everyday until I found out that the FV310 might actually be worse.

[bobrocks95]

I actually bought that one that I saw, but I also dollied it incorrectly down some steps and beat the crap out of the outer plastic. I drove about 80 miles out for it and paid I think $130. With tons of google alerts set up and checking nearly constantly on Craigslist, I've never seen another. For the one I bought I even had to ask for a picture of the model number. It doesn't seem like I'm anywhere near any of them.

[austin532]

Yeah, I always ask people for the model number as they often measure wrong. Some people measure the whole TV so a 24" screen will be listed as 27" or 28" and from the pics it can be tough to tell.

[Taiyaki]

Taiyaki, do you remember which model Toshiba CRT you had and how the reds looked on that TV?

It was an AF42 line if I recall correctly. The reds were very poor on that tv. It was too strong no matter how I tried to tweak it. Geometry was also unsalvageable. I had a poor experience with Toshiba but don't let that stop you. Some folks love them. If not Sony I would search for a Panasonic Tau, I had great times with those in the past.


Supposedly the best consumer CRT's for gaming are widely believed to be the FV line with the FV310 being the general pick of many as the best of the best. There are better CRT's for picture quality such as the Trinitron XBR sets and some others such as the Trinitron HS sets might even match or top the performance, but they're not as ideal for gaming. My understanding is these are not "pure" crt's as they carry many improvements to the technology and introduce input lag as well as other things. For films though these consumer sets are probably better.


I went through the entire BVM/PVM hype and bought scart connections for all systems, at times modding when necessary. I really tried hard to like the look and feel of these pro monitors (and at first I did). I gave it time too. However in the end nothing beats a great consumer set in my opinion. You just can't go wrong with Sony Trinitron sets if you're trying to recapture the feel of a CRT as you remember them (unless you never played on flat screens). Truth be told an FV300/310 is most likely as good if not better than what ever CRT any of us had for gaming as kids, teenagers and even adults, but because of standards today some of us may fail to appreciate this fact. : /

[FinalBaton]

Truth be told an FV300/310 is most likely as good if not better than what ever CRT any of us had for gaming as kids, teenagers and even adults, but because of standards today some of us may fail to appreciate this fact. : /

Agreed. The FV300 I have is way better than the last CRT my parents had (and still have, it's in the basement). It's a very noticeable jump in quality.

Tried my Sony SVO VHS deck on the FV300 when I receved it (the SVO) and it looked great. DVDs look very good too on it

[Brad251]

Truth be told an FV300/310 is most likely as good if not better than what ever CRT any of us had for gaming as kids, teenagers and even adults, but because of standards today some of us may fail to appreciate this fact. : /

There is no question that the FV310 is better than any CRT I had growing up and with the exception of how it displays reds, the picture is the best I have seen on a consumer CRT. Most flat screen CRTs from the major brands are likely better than the CRTs we grew up with. However, I have never had a CRT that had problems displaying reds the way that the FV310 does and I gamed on CRTs regularly until '09. Reds looked better on my KV-24FS100. I don't think this is a matter of being unhappy with the FV310 because of the standards of today. Reds on the FV310 just don't look right and when reds are off on a CRT it has a pretty big negative effect on the overall picture. FinalBaton has the same issue with his FV310. I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade or anything. If you own the FV310 and are happy with it then that is what matters but there are certainly a lot of good flat screen CRTs from other brands that people should consider.

[FinalBaton]

there are certainly a lot of good flat screen CRTs from other brands that people should consider.

Absolutely agree with this.

And with the rest of your post too. Very well put

[Lord of Pirates]

I've seen one FV300/310 in my life, and you all are talking like you've gone through 3 a piece

It's a regional thing; California, NY, and Texas dwellers see more stuff in general . I'd love to get my hands on an Electron Blue for a reasonable price (or any PC CRT on the level). I've only seen I - III locally once and the person that had them was an arse, they flat out refused to show me a picture of one working and acted like I should still be interested .

[Ikaruga11]

There are better CRT's for picture quality such as the Trinitron XBR sets and some others such as the Trinitron HS sets might even match or top the performance, but they're not as ideal for gaming. My understanding is these are not "pure" crt's as they carry many improvements to the technology and introduce input lag as well as other things. For films though these consumer sets are probably better.

HD CRTs are meant to be used with 480p and higher content. Light Gun games do not work on HD CRTs, and 240p/480i is upscaled.

[Taiyaki]

There are better CRT's for picture quality such as the Trinitron XBR sets and some others such as the Trinitron HS sets might even match or top the performance, but they're not as ideal for gaming. My understanding is these are not "pure" crt's as they carry many improvements to the technology and introduce input lag as well as other things. For films though these consumer sets are probably better.

HD CRTs are meant to be used with 480p and higher content. Light Gun games do not work on HD CRTs, and 240p/480i is upscaled.

Good points!

I have never had a CRT that had problems displaying reds the way that the FV310 does and I gamed on CRTs regularly until '09. Reds looked better on my KV-24FS100. I don't think this is a matter of being unhappy with the FV310 because of the standards of today. Reds on the FV310 just don't look right and when reds are off on a CRT it has a pretty big negative effect on the overall picture. FinalBaton has the same issue with his FV310. I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade or anything. If you own the FV310 and are happy with it then that is what matters but there are certainly a lot of good flat screen CRTs from other brands that people should consider.

Alright, for what it's worth I can absolutely confirm the FV300 does not have this issue. I have had both FS100's and an FS120 and I've spent time with all these sets calibrating and playing on them and I can tell you the FV300 has no issues with reds on my end (post calibration that is). I believe you on your predicament but I have a hard time believing the FV310 as an entire line would have permanently bad reds, I still feel that if it's not due to age, there must be a way to calibrate the set correctly with some work.


I think many CRT's can give a nice picture and I totally agree with all of you who said one can look elsewhere too. Again I'd recommend Panasonic as a great alternative to Sony for CRT's.

[FinalBaton]

Taiyaki, maybe you have a redesign of the FV300 (remember how our service menus are completely different?). Maybe they improved on some stuff (including the reds) on this redesign.

Other than that, maybe the tubes on mine are weak/used. I can get the reds to either be oversaturated, or on the dull side. I cannot get them to look neutral-saturation-yet-rich, like on my PVM or the NEC. And I've tried a million different calibration settings (I think I have a very good eye fro these things. But I have to admit that I don't have a colorimeter or any professional equipment).

[Brad251]

I still feel that if it's not due to age, there must be a way to calibrate the set correctly with some work.

I have tried everything that I can think of and don't know what else to do. I have the service manual and I have gone through all the options in the service menu and the only ones that seem to affect reds are the red drive and cut controls and AXNT. That and I have calibrated the grayscale on my FV310 with a colorimeter; experimenting with several different color temps, tweaking the red drive and cut controls and turning AXNT on and off. I have spent quite a few hours doing all of this. What I would really need would be a setting in the service menu to individually adjust reds but such a setting doesn't exist. I don't think it is that far fetched that the entire FV310 line may not display reds accurately. I'm not saying the reds look terrible but they either look dull or a little too intense with AXNT on. Just look at the entire lineup of flat screen Trinitrons. None of them display reds completely accurately because they have red push. Issues displaying reds seems to be a common problem among flat screen CRTs from the 2000s. Not only that but most of the SD flat screen Trinitrons from the 2000s have geometry issues so Sony clearly had a quality control issue going on.

I am open to suggestions if you have any.

[Taiyaki]

I still feel that if it's not due to age, there must be a way to calibrate the set correctly with some work.

I have tried everything that I can think of and don't know what else to do. I have the service manual and I have gone through all the options in the service menu and the only ones that seem to affect reds are the red drive and cut controls and AXNT. That and I have calibrated the grayscale on my FV310 with a colorimeter; experimenting with several different color temps, tweaking the red drive and cut controls and turning AXNT on and off. I have spent quite a few hours doing all of this. What I would really need would be a setting in the service menu to individually adjust reds but such a setting doesn't exist.

I am open to suggestions if you have any.

In my experience I would always use Standard color temps on CRT's (something I would absolutely never do on the majority of lcd's). The other advice I would have is to not calibrate with a colorimeter but to calibrate the set by eye with a lcd screen that you know is perfectly calibrated. If you can't find such screen you could use a Mac laptop if you're sure you've applied color profiles that correct the default ones with studio level colors and run the same game through an emulator.


Doing it by eye will mean you will not get each color spot on but if you can get all shades in high and lows to points where under multiple backgrounds all colors appear to be about spot on, you should be satisfied with the picture, and in the end that's really what matters. If you're curious you can then pass over the colorimeter and you'll likely find mostly all colors will be quite close to accurate. Although you can get very close with these sets, I'm really doubtful you can get absolute studio 100% perfect colors on consumer sets imo. If you aim to get all colors to 100% you will be left with the later colors being noticeably off by the time you get to working on them.


If absolute studio level color accuracy is essential to you I would just switch to a BVM. I had two of those and the colors are really their biggest strength. You have to compromise a lot of other things though such as living with blockier pixels and thicker scanlines.


Short of opening the tube and working on the inside, I think all you can do is work with the high and lows with R, G and B knobs that you mentioned. This might mean changing the blue and greens (either up or down) to fix the reds as well. I wouldn't touch the red push because apparently from what you've described the set appears to be dependent on it for popping reds (unless you don't mind duller reds). I for one have left it at it's default which is a 1 out a 0~3 on my boards but in your case 1 "on" is probably where you should start with.


I'll be honest it takes a very long time to get a good calibration and sometimes you have to do counter intuitive things to get there. I found on one set the purplish red shades were off (displaying more as regular red), I could fix it by changing the red levels but then it would mess up other aspects of the picture, it's by tweaking blue or green that I fixed it. As another example you sometimes need to tweak high or low reds to fix some blues etc. The colors work together and it's a lot of back and forth required to find the sweet spots.


I guess I've been blessed with my FV sets because on most of mine the tweaking needed was rather simple and a good calibration could be achieved, and generally within an hour (I have spent many many more hours on some other sets and to end with less satisfying results). Yours might require a bit more work but I really cannot imagine that the FV310 sets are screwed up where the reds are concerned. I have read so many glowing reviews from other gamers on that series and have seen one and others in pictures and I was very impressed.


There's a reason why the FV300/310 have become heralded as the best of the best of consumer crt's for gaming and the go to solution for serious gamers not entirely satisfied with PVM's and BVM's. If bad reds were an irreparable issue I highly doubt so many owners would be holding it up in such regard!

[Brad251]

I will try tweaking the grayscale controls by eye and see what I can do. I want to note, though, that what I am after is not so much color accuracy but rather, balanced colors. Color balance and color accuracy are two different things. One of the purposes of a colorimeter (I use an i1display pro) is to calibrate the grayscale in order to achieve balanced colors. As long as you calibrate the TVs brightness, contrast and user menu color level beforehand using something like Artemio's 240p suite then there should be no issue in using a colorimeter. With the method where you compare your CRT to a professionally calibrated LCD, keep in mind that this LCD would have been calibrated using a colorimeter. Calibrating a TVs grayscale by eye is a very difficult thing to do because our eyes are not good judges of color balance. I suppose it is possible but you are always better off using a colorimeter to calibrate grayscale.