Sonic Wings (aka Aero Fighters)

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Mero
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Re: Sonic Wings (aka Aero Fighters)

Post by Mero »

I can do, yeah.

I'll update your score on Sunday btw, when I'm on a computer.
Vludi
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Re: Sonic Wings (aka Aero Fighters)

Post by Vludi »

Aero Fighters arcade
Vludi - 886,400 - 2-4 - Kohful

First 1-All. Loop 1 is similar to Psikyo stuff, loop 2 isn't much harder than the first loop though, seems doable.
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Perikles
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Re: Sonic Wings (aka Aero Fighters)

Post by Perikles »

ProjectAKo wrote:You should go for the WWR. :P
Well, I did manage to get first place for Sonic Wings (which, call me superstitious all you want, I still find noticeably more awkward than Aero Fighters by dint of higher rank):


Sonic Wings - Arcade

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Perikles - 1,299,800 - ALL - Kohful

Video


Aero Fighters - Arcade

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Perikles - 1,371,500 - ALL - Kohful


Sonic Wings - SFC

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Perikles - 1,041,200 - ALL - Kohful


Very happy with my arcade Sonic Wings run, only one death on the monkey in loop 2, outside of too many bombs in 2-5 I'm extremely satisfied. Too many credits ended with some outrageous hits on the 2-6 jets or somewhere in 2-7, mostly in conjunction with some bomb not triggering because of the awful lag in this game. Never going to play either Sonic Wings or Aero Fighters arcade again.

Will play the SFC version once more, though! I played this on Snes9x with external autofire, not going to bother without it anymore. I'll try to get an autofire controller for my console and then a better score, shouldn't be too difficult provided the controller does what it's supposed to do. There are a few sections that are harder than they are in the arcade game (the Japan boss in particular), the most idiotic/aggravating parts are much easier on the other hand, and considerably more fun as well.

I was also completely wrong about Rabio, a 2-ALL with him is much harder than with Kohful. Yes, he is much more powerful than the rest of the cast, but the rank goes crazy after a while. If you don't die by 1-6 (which is essentially 1-5 since Rabio has an additional stage) the bullet speed is faster than it ever will be over the course of both loops for the other characters.
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tinotormed
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Re: Sonic Wings (aka Aero Fighters)

Post by tinotormed »

Since I am playing the Super Famicom version right now, which will be a feature game in a Retro Gaming Expo in Manila, I only got one question. Any idea on how the 1UPs pop-up in random? In one occasion while playing as Hien, it popped up on the right side turret before the boss.
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Perikles
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Re: Sonic Wings (aka Aero Fighters)

Post by Perikles »

tinotormed wrote:Any idea on how the 1UPs pop-up in random?
I've recently played this one again on real hardware and I'm 99.99% sure it's completely random. You're most likely to receive the extend (if it spawns at all) during the Moscow stage on account of all the turrets being there. Amusingly enough, you can only hold four lives total (or three additional lives displayed in the upper left corner), if the game releases an extend while you have that many lives, you'll only gain 10,000 points.

And since I'm posting here, I might as well also add the aforementioned score:


Sonic Wings - SFC

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Perikles - 1,144,000 - ALL - Kohful


I used an Ascii Pad for autofire purposes in this run. I'm very pleased with the result, I only died on the final boss in the second loop once.
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tinotormed
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Re: Sonic Wings (aka Aero Fighters)

Post by tinotormed »

Super Famicom
tinotormed - 1,127,000 - 2-8 - Rabio

Had fun at Retro Gaming Expo Manila 2019, and one of the featured free play on the Super Famicom is this game.

As I have said, wishful thinking for a 2-ALL if I wasn't rudely interrupted but had to due to strict schedules as the unit will be used for a Street Fighter tournament.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 1046724322

Seems Rabio has nearly a lot of advantages that many fighters do not have such as a small hitbox, powerful shot type, search laser sub-weapon and powerful bomb but requires getting close to the enemy to use, hence a separate cstegory for him.
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KoopaTGR
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Re: Sonic Wings (aka Aero Fighters)

Post by KoopaTGR »

Aero Fighters Arcade
KoopaTGR - 976,100 - 2-4 - Kohful

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KoopaTGR
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Re: Sonic Wings (aka Aero Fighters)

Post by KoopaTGR »

Sonic Wings Arcade
KoopaTGR - 895,700 - 2-4 - Kohful
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Mero
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Re: Sonic Wings (aka Aero Fighters)

Post by Mero »

Added KoopaTGR's Aero Fighters score at long last, I completely missed it last time.
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maximo310
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Re: Sonic Wings (aka Aero Fighters)

Post by maximo310 »

Aero Fighters Arcade
maximo - 791,700 - 2-2 - Kohful

Quick & dry clear; no miss till 1-7 xD

Replay link: https://youtu.be/3NV_6vc--Fs

Sonic Wings Arcade
maximo - 741,700 - 2-2 - Kohful

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This version didn't seem that bad for a 1-ALL either ( using pic, since I only got a partial recording of this run)
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pegboy
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Re: Sonic Wings (aka Aero Fighters)

Post by pegboy »

Sonic Wings
PEG - 1,283,500 - ALL - Keith

Video: https://youtu.be/db5sHDFqwpk

Lucky me I got the damn monkey twice.
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Meriscan
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Re: Sonic Wings (aka Aero Fighters)

Post by Meriscan »

pegboy wrote:Sonic Wings
PEG - 1,283,500 - ALL - Keith
Congrats! Always cool to see a replay that doesn't use Kohful.
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pegboy
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Re: Sonic Wings (aka Aero Fighters)

Post by pegboy »

Meriscan wrote:
pegboy wrote:Sonic Wings
PEG - 1,283,500 - ALL - Keith
Congrats! Always cool to see a replay that doesn't use Kohful.
Thanks. I guess this is the forum record now since perikles should be removed? Not sure this board is even active anymore though lol.
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Mero
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Re: Sonic Wings (aka Aero Fighters)

Post by Mero »

^^ I'm still here, update coming tomorrow. Perikles will be removed as well.
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EmperorIng
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Re: Sonic Wings (aka Aero Fighters)

Post by EmperorIng »

I am putting some time into this game at the moment so I figured I'd add my clear - I think a first with MaoMao on this forum :twisted:


Sonic Wings
EmperorIng - 627,500 - 2-1 - Mao

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Pretty bad score - everything went wrong in this run (way too many bombs, and two dumb deaths on stage 1-7), but I somehow managed to kill the monkey at low power. Quite the feat! MaoMao has terrible damage, the smallest ammo pool at full-power of any of the ships, and a bomb that does nothing to help you recover. This was my first 1all, so I hope to push myself a little farther in the meantime!
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Mero
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Re: Sonic Wings (aka Aero Fighters)

Post by Mero »

Updated. Good job on the clear with Mao, too many of these characters have crappy firepower imo
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EmperorIng
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Re: Sonic Wings (aka Aero Fighters)

Post by EmperorIng »

Thanks! I want to keep pushing myself a little further and see how far I can survive the loop with MaoMao. Her handicap of low power makes the second loop incredibly scary - the rank increases enemy HP so much that she can barely kill anything. The sweden boss in loop 2 is particularly harrowing: nothing fucking dies.

I got two 1alls in the span of a single stream tonight so I am pleased that I managed to finally pull of a "semi-consistent" 1all and improve my overall score! I recorded it here. Check 9:40 for a hilariously bullshit death which threw off my groove somewhat. Despite that I manage to claw my way back, though I have to double-ko on the final boss to get enough power-ups to survive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxddq2pFFwk

Sonic Wings
EmperorIng - 676,200 - 2-2 - Mao
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EmperorIng
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Re: Sonic Wings (aka Aero Fighters)

Post by EmperorIng »

Getting even farther! Glad to break 800k and had I been a bit more smart with my bombs I could have gotten to 2-5. Which from practice is a real nightmare. I keep on trying to no-miss the first loop but something dumb always kills me. The MaoMao train continues.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2018377073

Sonic Wings
EmperorIng - 839,000 - 2-4 - Mao

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third_strike
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Re: Sonic Wings (aka Aero Fighters)

Post by third_strike »

Really inspiring. Keep on it!
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Mero
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Re: Sonic Wings (aka Aero Fighters)

Post by Mero »

Table is now up to date, sorry it took a while.
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EmperorIng
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Re: Sonic Wings (aka Aero Fighters)

Post by EmperorIng »

third_strike wrote: Mon Jan 01, 2024 5:24 pm Really inspiring. Keep on it!
So I shall! Too bad it's taking me forever to make small improvements. But I moved up on the board :mrgreen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XswRPSl7K-k

Sonic Wings
EmperorIng - 905,100 - 2-5 - Mao

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third_strike
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Re: Sonic Wings (aka Aero Fighters)

Post by third_strike »

Almost there!
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EmperorIng
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Re: Sonic Wings (aka Aero Fighters)

Post by EmperorIng »

Inching ever closer.... It sure is taking a lot of damn time though. I did not want to post subsequent PB's until I got past the 2-5 wall which has kept me in place for a long, long time. Three weeks, jesus. MaoMao's recovery is SO bad that an errant death at the wrong moment will end the run, full stop.

Sonic Wings
EmperorIng - 943,300 - 2-6 - Mao

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Meriscan
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Re: Sonic Wings (aka Aero Fighters)

Post by Meriscan »

Great job on the PB! Three weeks does sound like a long time for a new PB. And you haven't been slouching at all.
Is Mao really that much worse of a character compared to the rest? Or is the difficulty of this game underrated in your opinion?
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EmperorIng
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Re: Sonic Wings (aka Aero Fighters)

Post by EmperorIng »

Meriscan wrote: Wed Jan 24, 2024 1:05 pm Great job on the PB! Three weeks does sound like a long time for a new PB. And you haven't been slouching at all.
Is Mao really that much worse of a character compared to the rest? Or is the difficulty of this game underrated in your opinion?
Wall of text approaching! read at your own risk.

Thanks! I checked the posts above and it was two weeks, which is less (but still a long time!). This is a complicated question to answer. The biggest problem with MaoMao is that the further along you go, the higher the rank gets, and the higher enemy hp increases along with it. Her shot is simply too weak to take care of most enemies quickly - especially if you have no-missed deep into the second loop where the rank is really high. And recovery is almost nonexistent (if you are low power starting 2-5 it's almost impossible to survive unless you get lucky and use all your bombs). Not only that, but built into her character is the lowest ammo count at full power of any character in the game. It lasts allegedly 32 shots. While other characters might last a whole stage at full power, Mao will quickly power down.

So you have a terrible combo of High HP enemies, Fast bullets, and Giant Hitbox. Mao has a further deficit because unlike the high-tier characters like Kohful (and to a lesser extent, Keith/USA 2P), she lacks their point-blank potential. Kohful can let a bunch of his missiles instantly spawn and do massive damage which works really well to control the screen. Mao by contrast has to contend with dodging a lot in the game (more so than other characters), which is a deficit given her finicky speed and enemy rate of fire. Tanks suddenly become extremely scary because they do not always consistently die when you shoot them - maybe your laser was off by a pixel, making the damage just too low. The russian towers in 2-6 have a ridiculous amount of HP, they are nigh unkillable without sustained fire and they have a bad way of ramming into you as they all crowd around and you destroy a few.

To say nothing of the real gatekeepers, the bosses. They have so much hp, and while a char like Keith who can reliably point-blank them to oblivion may be challenged/threatened a little bit, the second loop boss fights with MaoMao are nothing short of endurance matches between your weak shot, their huge health pools, and their random attacks. Basically the longer a boss lives the more likely it is to kill you, and I doubt any other character lets them hang around as much as Mao does.

That being said if nothing else, forcing this challenge onto myself has made me develop a whole bunch of strategies and routes to neutralize as many of these threats as possible. This has actually been the real fun part of the whole affair - not so much the striving for the 2all (which don't get me wrong is weirdly fun, in a way haha), but the feeling like I'm pioneering new ground here and noticing some aspects of the game that the average player misses going for their heckin' valid Kohful 1ALL. Weird quirks of the game's design and programming, and how to counteract that and have a chance at survival. This includes discovering or developing strategies using her time-stop bomb to park on top of and point-blank some bosses, using as much of her low ammo count to nuke bosses into orbit. Further more it made me think about ammo conservation and getting to the bosses with as much ammo as possible which has become its own interesting meta-challenge on top of all the other routing.

It made me appreciate, likewise, the scoring design of the game - 2000 points for picking up an ammo canister while at max, 10,000 points for picking up bombs past max stock (6) - and how to best integrate my routes to increase my score as much as possible. MaoMao is the lowest-scoring wr of all the chars so where she does pick up points matters quite a bit. Conserving bombs (two planned bombs in loop 1) to get these bonuses means planning and routing ahead and figuring out how to no-bomb bosses. I might be the first person to record low or no-bomb strategies for some of the bosses in this game - where everyone else spams bombs and is done with it.

I cannot speak to all the characters in the game but this is probably one of the harder challenges I've taken on in outside of some ridiculous score challenges. People underestimate the difficulty of the game because a 1all is honestly relatively mild no matter the character - yeah it will take some routing and bomb usage, but nothing too bad. My first time playing Kohful "blind" I got to the final stage. The 2all however, is incredibly hard, is often feels like a factor of luck or RNG and where the real meat of the game lies. I have 50 hours clocked into the game and I still feel like I am at least a dozen away before I get that good run that has a chance to 2all. People write off these games, honestly, because it seems like they only ever get halfway through and call it a day!
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Meriscan
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Re: Sonic Wings (aka Aero Fighters)

Post by Meriscan »

EmperorIng wrote: Wed Jan 24, 2024 9:23 pm
Meriscan wrote: Wed Jan 24, 2024 1:05 pm Great job on the PB! Three weeks does sound like a long time for a new PB. And you haven't been slouching at all.
Is Mao really that much worse of a character compared to the rest? Or is the difficulty of this game underrated in your opinion?
Wall of text approaching! read at your own risk.
Very interesting read. I didn't know the second loop added that much difficulty. It's not the type of difficulty i'm used to seeing (like increased bullet count/tons of revenge bullets). So you decided to try to get the 2all with Mao for the additional challenge? You make it sound like Keith wouldn't be as exciting.
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EmperorIng
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Re: Sonic Wings (aka Aero Fighters)

Post by EmperorIng »

Well it finally happened... and still in January too! I wasn't expecting to close out the month with reaching one of my (as of yet unpublished) 2024 goals. Hurray!

Sonic Wings
EmperorIng - 1,251,800 - ALL - Mao

Image

I wasn't even looking to 2all, I was just hoping to get a PB this run. The third time I ever made it into 2-6, and I actually 2all the game. Pretty nice!

-This was no-miss up to 2-6, where enemy HP and lack of bombs finally got me.
-That was the only death this run
-Rocket x2 > that means big points!
-Just 30k off of pegboy's score, which is not insignificant, but it is doable. Keith earns a lot more points though, so I am not too disappointed.
-This score officially beats the Gamest July 1992 world record set for Mao! 8)
-Total time clocked in the game: 55 hours, 18 minutes. Almost all of that MaoMao.

No video yet (though I did stream the run). I have been thinking about this for a while. But I want to do a narrated replay of the 2all, inspired by DMC's awesome videos. I wouldn't call it a guide per se, but it might be nicer that just a straight upload. Plus you would not have to hear the annoying laser sound as much, ha.
Meriscan wrote: Wed Jan 24, 2024 10:38 pm Very interesting read. I didn't know the second loop added that much difficulty. It's not the type of difficulty i'm used to seeing (like increased bullet count/tons of revenge bullets). So you decided to try to get the 2all with Mao for the additional challenge? You make it sound like Keith wouldn't be as exciting.
I was partially drawn in to the fact that no one has apparently tried to go beyond a 1ALL with MaoMao (and it doesn't even seem like people have really done that, judging by youtube). Usually these ACA releases bring the japanese players out of the woodwork to post a bunch of new videos. This didn't happen with Mao, so it got me thinking that it might be worthwhile and "unique" to try and do the clear myself. I might have underestimated the challenge, lol. It was considerable. Any 2all would be a lot of hard work and exciting, but picking the easy options (Keith and Kohful) just seemed unappealing to me on a certain aesthetic level. If nothing else this lets me contribute "new" knowledge to such an old game because as far as I can see no one has ever recorded high skilled Mao play, and my vids might one day point the way to even more skilled players to push further.
Last edited by EmperorIng on Mon Jan 29, 2024 5:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Meriscan
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Re: Sonic Wings (aka Aero Fighters)

Post by Meriscan »

Great job! I'm looking forward to the commentated vid. I understand you wouldn't want to make it a guide, can imagine you're probably sick of looking at this game.
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marus
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Re: Sonic Wings (aka Aero Fighters)

Post by marus »

Nice, congrats on the 2-all! I'm looking forward to your commentated vid too!
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BIL
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Re: Sonic Wings (aka Aero Fighters)

Post by BIL »

EmperorIng wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2024 6:02 am Well it finally happened... and still in January too! I wasn't expecting to close out the month with reaching one of my (as of yet unpublished) 2024 goals. Hurray!
Image

Exceptionally fine, innovative work. Saw in my YT recs and watched immediately, so I'd no idea of run specifics; edge-of-seat precision routing and boss duelling, as befits proto-Psikyo. :mrgreen: (daww @ 23:18 victory dance Image) Anyone who's played a few credits as MaoMao will understand how gracefully you landed this one!
Last edited by BIL on Thu Feb 01, 2024 7:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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