XRGB-mini Framemeister

[Fudoh]

the change log on the website is more complex. Not sure if a video format or pedestal setup was neccessary, but the manual A/D adjustments (C_SHARP_LV, MANUAL_Y_FILTER and FILTER _LEVEL) sound interesting.

MANUAL_Y_FILTER sounds like a switch for the LPF automatically applied on some picture settings before.

[TheShadowRunner]

the change log on the website is more complex. Not sure if a video format or pedestal setup was neccessary, but the manual A/D adjustments (C_SHARP_LV, MANUAL_Y_FILTER and FILTER _LEVEL) sound interesting.

MANUAL_Y_FILTER sounds like a switch for the LPF automatically applied on some picture settings before.

All these new settings only impact Composite and Svideo. Can't wait to check the new color reproduction accuracy for RGB input though, Mario green bushes get ready xD

[amaradona]

1080p proper scanlines still not fixed.
Do you think it is not doable?
I am losing patience.

[eightbitminiboss]

Full list:

It includes changes such as OSD menu. Please check thorough the following contents before the update.
May 11, fixes 2016:
<CPU Ver.2.03>
■ it has been improved the reproducibility of the color at the time of RGB input.

■ it was to adjust the synchronization of HDMI output.

■ Added "video settings" on the main menu.
Function in the "Video Settings" is effective only to composite video and S-video.

■ Added "VIDEO_FORMAT" in the "Video Settings".
"VIDEO_FORMAT" is the ability to set the range to recognize automatically the type of video format.
STD: NTSC and PAL (B / G / I / H) to identify the method.
EXT: You can identify in addition to the above NTSC443, PAL (M / N / 60) method.
※ Due to the nature of each video format and game consoles, the left and up and down the line and the noise image on the screen may be displayed. If these symptoms are worrisome, please devise sorry to trouble you, but using the "input horizontal position" and "input vertical position" or other adjustments function perform the screen adjustment.

■ Added "PEDESTAL_LV (pedestal level)" to the "video settings" within.
"PEDESTAL_LV" is, for example, NTSC M (USA) and NTSC MJ as seen in the differences (such as Japan), is intended to change the black reference level (not the gamma function).
This feature is common, regardless of the format, such as NTSC / PAL.
OFF: to brighten the dark part. For example, video content and equipment of the Japanese specification (NTSC MJ), if you want to connect the TV is recommended OFF. However, because the dark areas brighter, there are times when the noise at the time of A / D conversion is noticeable on the screen.
ON: For example, USA specification video content and equipment, if you want to connect the TV to recommend ON.

■ Added "C_SHARP_LV" in the "Video Settings".
"C_SHARP_LV" is the ability to adjust the changes in the A / D converter of the chroma signal (color signal). By adjusting, you can show the boundary of color to Sharp.

■ Added "MANUAL_Y_FILTER" in the "Video Settings".
"MANUAL_Y_FILTER" is the ability to select the Y signal filter width of the A / D converter.
Because it depends on the video equipment of the signal ※, the image quality may vary depending on the equipment in the same setting.
AT1: is AutoFilter (broadband).
AT2: is AutoFilter (narrow band: standard).
MANUAL: Use the following settings: "FILTER_LEVEL".

■ Added "FILTER _LEVEL" to "video settings" within.
"FILTER_LEVEL" can be adjusted when the setting of "MANUAL_Y_FILTER" above is set to "MANUAL".
By manipulating the adjustment bar, you can adjust the Y signal filter width of the A / D converter in the manual. Because it depends on the video equipment of the signal, the image quality may vary depending on the equipment in the same setting.

Really want to know what "it was to adjust the synchronization of HDMI output" means. Part of me wants to believe it's faster image sync after resolution changes, but I know that's not true.

[fafangus]

1080p proper scanlines still not fixed.
Do you think it is not doable?
I am losing patience.
1080p proper scanlines still not fixed.
Do you think it is not doable?
I am losing patience.

My signal go trough xselecdt4 > framemeister's dterminal > smartX2 setting > 1080p output > scanline bingo (I also do have a Samsung UE32j6300 (superb picture) who let me adjust the zoom ratio, and I've got fullscreen 4:3 scanlines ^^)

[Shuco13]

All these new settings only impact Composite and Svideo. Can't wait to check the new color reproduction accuracy for RGB input though, Mario green bushes get ready xD

Yes, that's true, no effect on RGB- or D-terminal input. They seem to have changed the way how blacklevel and gamma are handled on RGB since all of my profiles seem to be washed out now. I don't know if the default settings are any better. I have to do more testing. One thing I can say for sure: D-terminal input seems to left untouched, so no problem with previous profiles here.

Regarding scanlines:
I can confirm that no change has been made. I don't understand why since they gave us numerous options to adjust the useless overlay mode that should just work the same.

Edit: Ok, so they seem to have made a significant change to the OUTPUT-COLOR mode. RGB forces RGB colors on all inputs, AUTO does not automatically detect colors anymore but forces YCBCR colors on EVERY output (that's why colors seemed to be washed out on my setup). So since there is no real auto-mode anymore, and the setting isn't stored by profiles this means you have to go with EITHER YCBCR OR RGB on all of your inputs which is kind of a letdown if you use both D-terminal and RGB.

Edit2: Ok, found an easy fix for this. If you were on AUTO (like me) before and are having issues with the black level just lower your BRIGHTNESS setting by 16 (e.g. I had it on 26 before and lowered it to 10) for RGB-inputs. It looks just the same as if you went from AUTO to RGB. Why not set it to RGB in the first place and adjust the D-terminal settings? D-terminal is really hard to get right with its SATURATION and HUE controls, so that the RGB-input is a lower denominator and only needs the mentioned BRIGHTNESS adjustment.

Edit3: Another (positive) aspect I realized is that blacks don't get crushed by scanlines anymore on RGB-inputs. This means you don't need scanline-adjusted profiles on RGB-inputs anymore.

[RGB]

I have a question regarding the XRGB-mini audio options. Is it possible to simultaneously use the 8pin mini DIN as the video input, and the RCAs as the audio input? Apologies if this has been asked before.

[Fudoh]

Is it possible to simultaneously use the 8pin mini DIN as the video input, and the RCAs as the audio input?

yes, this was added through a firmware update about a year into the Mini's life cycle.

[Ripthorn]

Finally, PAL-M support

[rtw]

Is it possible to simultaneously use the 8pin mini DIN as the video input, and the RCAs as the audio input?

yes, this was added through a firmware update about a year into the Mini's life cycle.

I connected my PC-Engine to the FM's RGB and enjoyed the sound and the music. Then I connected another audio source to the RCA jacks.

No sound from the external device so I fiddled around in the menus but to no avail, can someone share the secret ?

[austin532]

Well shoot, it seems like they did something to the scanlines and now they are slightly off. My CRT scanlines appear more thicker now.

[Fudoh]

No sound from the external device so I fiddled around in the menus but to no avail, can someone share the secret ?

there's an option to choose the audio to go along with RGB. You can only use the RCAs on the FRONT though, not on the back.

[rtw]

No sound from the external device so I fiddled around in the menus but to no avail, can someone share the secret ?

there's an option to choose the audio to go along with RGB. You can only use the RCAs on the FRONT though, not on the back.

Using this: http://www.micomsoft.co.jp/XRGB-mini_Ver200_OSD_E.pdf

I managed to sort it, the problem is when I try to swap to VIDEO from RGB in the RGB_AUDIO menu there is a sync glitch and my HDMI switch chooses a different port.

Thank you Fudoh!

[NormalFish]

So anyone mess with the new Svideo/composite options? nothing in my set up uses either anymore.

Didn't notice any meaningful difference when I was messing with profiles a little while back. Everything seemed as I remembered, though it's possible there're some subtle differences I just didn't notice.

[Shuco13]

Well shoot, it seems like they did something to the scanlines and now they are slightly off. My CRT scanlines appear more thicker now.

What's your input?

[austin532]

Well shoot, it seems like they did something to the scanlines and now they are slightly off. My CRT scanlines appear more thicker now.

What's your input?

I was using 50 LINE and 86 SMOOTH before. Anyways while messing with them I've decided to go back and look at more combinations. This time I will start at 0 LINE and work my way up to at least 70. I was happy with the way 50/86 looked but thought they still didn't quite represent what CRT scanlines should look like. It was still a little on the light side. As you may or may not know the LINE seems to effect the thickness of the SMOOTH. Not sure why but it just does.

Anything above 70 LINE is too light IMO so I often ask myself, way bother? Since people seem to mention it I will see if I can dial in a good setting for 480i games as well. There is only so much you can do with that though.

[NormalFish]

Well shoot, it seems like they did something to the scanlines and now they are slightly off. My CRT scanlines appear more thicker now.

What's your input?

I was using 50 LINE and 86 SMOOTH before. Anyways while messing with them I've decided to go back and look at more combinations. This time I will start at 0 LINE and work my way up to at least 70. I was happy with the way 50/86 looked but thought they still didn't quite represent what CRT scanlines should look like. It was still a little on the light side. As you may or may not know the LINE seems to effect the thickness of the SMOOTH. Not sure why but it just does.

Anything above 70 LINE is too light IMO so I often ask myself, way bother? Since people seem to mention it I will see if I can dial in a good setting for 480i games as well. There is only so much you can do with that though.

think he was asking about what system/signal you were testing with.

[austin532]

Oh, the PS1. They should work with any 240p profile though.

[FBX]

So I install the update, play around with a few settings, and determined that unless you actually use composite or S-Video, this update does pretty much nothing of major value. Noise in solid colors is still there. The boys at Micomsoft are trying to challenge Valve for the slowest software development world record... Well at least Valve's releases are epic when they finally happen. I imagine Portal 3 will be mind-blowing when it comes out next century.

[austin532]

Seriously, with the lack of major updates and plenty of alternatives to choose from, I think the days of the Framemeister being the king are long behind it.

[pyrotek85]

Seriously, with the lack of major updates and plenty of alternatives to choose from, I think the days of the Framemeister being the king are long behind it.

Well as Fudoh noted in his review of the new OSSC, the Framemeister's problems might be too deeply rooted in it's design for them to fix with firmware. Personally I think we're long past the point where there will be any major updates or fixes to it. I think if they could have done it, they would have by now.

[CkRtech]

Seriously, with the lack of major updates and plenty of alternatives to choose from, I think the days of the Framemeister being the king are long behind it.

It is a little amusing the masses are starting to jump on the Framemeister right about the time I feel we (shmups) are looking toward the next "thing." I have really been enjoying following the development on the OSSC. I'm ready to move on from that inherent noise the FM has. You can see it in just about everyone's YouTube videos.

[Thomago]

I bought the Framemeister in 2012 and hardly used it for gaming cause I found issues like the everpresent noise and LPF to be distracting. The moment Fudoh's review of the OSSC was out I put that thing on eBay and I doubt I will ever look back.

[ZellSF]

The noise never bothered me at all. I still have my XRGB-mini connected after a splitter from my OSSC. One output to TV, one to XRGB-mini for better image quality since my TV's 480p handling is pretty bad. Considering replacing it with a DVDO of some kind though.

I don't think the XRGB-mini is useless now, it's still the best standalone full on processing solution for retro content. Yes XRGB3+DVDO earlier and OSSC+DVDO now are better, but more expensive and less convenient in some ways.

And of course there's a new firmware update two days after I decide to catch up on updates.

[BuckoA51]

XRGB3+DVDO has its advantages over the mini, but is probably even noisier and in some instances actually has more input lag. I found myself using it more than the mini though because the minis menus,zoom/pan controls are just so darn fiddly. Plus it likes to give you one extra thick scanline on some sources until you goof around with settings, so forth and so on.

PQ wise you can't touch the Mini's 480i deinterlacing with an OSSC of course.

[FBX]

Seriously, with the lack of major updates and plenty of alternatives to choose from, I think the days of the Framemeister being the king are long behind it.

It is a little amusing the masses are starting to jump on the Framemeister right about the time I feel we (shmups) are looking toward the next "thing." I have really been enjoying following the development on the OSSC. I'm ready to move on from that inherent noise the FM has. You can see it in just about everyone's YouTube videos.

I'm kind of forced to still use the Framemeister in that I gotta have 1080p support. From what I understand, the OSSC only goes up to 720, and even then it's not a kosher 720 for most displays.

[NormalFish]

Yeah, I think the framemeister will remain relevant for quite a while. The OSSC does good things, but it's not as versatile as the fm, nor is it as compatible. If it didn't have RGsB compatibility, I would have little interest in moving to the OSSC.

[Ripthorn]

Can I dream with a mode who treats 240p signals as 480i on framemeister?
I know, is kinda dumb but at least those 240p/480i games will be playable.

[lechu]

Seriously, with the lack of major updates and plenty of alternatives to choose from, I think the days of the Framemeister being the king are long behind it.

Couldn't it hypothetically be possible for someone to take the firmware files and hack them to make a custom firmware to try to fix a lot of issues people have had (i.e. crappy 1080P scanlines and imrpoved 480P support)?

[Guspaz]

The firmware isn't opensource, so it would be very difficult to modify the firmware.