Who knows about CRTs, PVMs, and BVMs?

[mvsfan]

I just bought a JVC AV-36S33 tv for $20.

I Actually paid a bit for it because that was THE tv i was looking for.

Its specd at 800 TVL.

I must say sofar im impressed with it. I hooked up my component nesrgb to it and it looks very good. the colors are great and its definately sharp.

it is a shadow mask though so the image is a bit more like my arcade monitor.

It only weigh 149 lbs.

[FinalBaton]

Congrats on getting the set you wanted bud!

[tacoguy64]

I just bought a JVC AV-36S33 tv for $20.

I Actually paid a bit for it because that was THE tv i was looking for.

Its specd at 800 TVL.

I must say sofar im impressed with it. I hooked up my component nesrgb to it and it looks very good. the colors are great and its definately sharp.

it is a shadow mask though so the image is a bit more like my arcade monitor.

It only weigh 149 lbs.

Take some pictures and show them off in the crt thread.
Sounds like you got a good deal. And the tv isnt even that heavy.
Though I wouldn't want to lift that by myself :p

[Xyga]

Those two-part sitdown orange/white generic cabs I can't remember the name of, sported huge-ass 43" 4:3 monitors.

[Fudoh]

Those two-part sitdown orange/white generic cabs I can't remember the name of, sported huge-ass 43" 4:3 monitors.

but these were rear projection, weren't they ?

[Xyga]

Sorry no I'm saying stupid things because it's old memories. ^^"
Went to quadruple-check: it's the Naomi Universal DX with 38" crts.
Definitely not 43" but still behemoth tubes! (and only 31KHz I think, but someone will have to confirm that)

[Dragon89o]

I've seen that model a few times on craigslist and from what i can tell it only has composite and s-video inputs. I am not sure how nice the image is on that tv but that thing must weigh 300lbs! If i were to have a tv in that range i would make sure it has rgb or component at the very least. It might have good a good s-video and even composite quality pictures but they wont be good as rgb.

To tell you the truth finding a large size rgb crt can be pretty difficult. This is why many people recommend going with a consumer crt instead since they are relatively easier to find in your area and cheaper too. Though I think some of the newer models of consumer crt's struggle with 240p content. But they shine with 480p stuff. I've seen people use rgb to component transcoders on some sony wegas and it looked good. And like they've mentioned before, theres a thread around here that has people converting them to rgb. Haven't read through most the thread so I don't know how successful they've been but could be a nice alternate. But I wouldn't recommend this mod for anyone not experienced enough with working on crt's. In fact I would highly advise against it.

But if you're like me and want to get the best then you will want to go with an rgb monitor. Seems like you are more interested in finding a larger sized monitor that are multisync capable (can play NES all the way to PS2/Wii). That kinda narrows your options by a lot. Here's a brief list of some monitors to look out for

24' Sony BVM A24E1WU
32' Sony BVM D32E1WU

27' Panasonic DT-2730MS
27' Panasonic DT-2750MS
36' Panasonic CT-3696VY

29' NEC XM29 Plus
29' NEC XP29 Plus
37' NEC XM37 Plus
37' NEC XP37 Plus

29' Mitsubishi Megaview 29
29' Mitsubishi Megaview Pro 29
33' Mitsubishi Megaview 33
37' Mitsubishi Megaview Plus 37
37' Mitsubishi Megaview Pro 37
42' Mitsubishi Megaview Pro 42

There are a few more large rgb monitors out there but thats all i can remember right now.

Were those ordered in what is better? If so why did you put the A24E1WU before the D32E1WU.
Also I didn't know they made NEC's past the size of 29. Whats the difference between the XM series and the XP series? Plus why is the XM29 plus so highly regraded as an RGB monitor but the other NECs are not mentioned?
Haven't looked into Panasonics that much even though my current CRT is Panasonic and from what I'v read it's decent/good but obviously not RGB quality. Do those Panasonics have RGB capabilities?

My Panasonic CT-27SX12 is currently in my room where the Mitsubishi I mentioned earlier was more of something to currently use in the living room until I can find something better. Plus people have brought up modding their tvs to become capable of handling RGB so I was curious if the model I mentioned earlier would be capable. So I wanted to know how both the Panasonic that I have and the Mitsubishi that I plan to pick up this week compare to other high end consumer level CRTs. Pretty much I want the best consumer level CRT untill I can find the best professional CRT.

Your response was great you added a ton of TVs onto my list. All of them are RGB capable that you listed earlier right?

[tacoguy64]

Those were ordered by brand and size. Sony, NEC, Mitsubishi, and Toshiba. All of these monitors are rgb capable and also have multisync. There are other large rgb monitors as well but some of them might only offer 240p or just 480p like the Sony PVM 2530 which is a nice sized monitor but can only do 240p.

The main difference between the NEC XM and XP series come down to max resolution where the XM series tops out at 1024x768 and the XP series goes up to 1600x1200. The rest of the specs are very similar across all NEC presentation monitors. And from what I can imagine from the NEC XM29 popularity is because of its size and multisync capabilities. 29 inches is perhaps that sweet spot for many people of being big enough to game on without feeling small. Keep in mind that most crts, once they go over the 30' inch size they go up in weight considerably. Also the bigger crt are more prone to failure. I know that that was the case with the Sony BVM D32E1WU. You should be fine if you find something in good working order just make sure you test everything out.

I can't help you much with the consumer section. I believe that JVC that mvsfan was able to pick up might be up there since it has 800TVL. Certain Sony Wegas get good all around praise for their nice pictures as well. I see other consumer brands being mentioned as well. The consensus around here with consumer crt's is to take the best that you can get locally. You might actually already be good with the Panasonic you have.

[Dragon89o]

Those were ordered by brand and size. Sony, NEC, Mitsubishi, and Toshiba. All of these monitors are rgb capable and also have multisync. There are other large rgb monitors as well but some of them might only offer 240p or just 480p like the Sony PVM 2530 which is a nice sized monitor but can only do 240p.

The main difference between the NEC XM and XP series come down to max resolution where the XM series tops out at 1024x768 and the XP series goes up to 1600x1200. The rest of the specs are very similar across all NEC presentation monitors. And from what I can imagine from the NEC XM29 popularity is because of its size and multisync capabilities. 29 inches is perhaps that sweet spot for many people of being big enough to game on without feeling small. Keep in mind that most crts, once they go over the 30' inch size they go up in weight considerably. Also the bigger crt are more prone to failure. I know that that was the case with the Sony BVM D32E1WU. You should be fine if you find something in good working order just make sure you test everything out.

I can't help you much with the consumer section. I believe that JVC that mvsfan was able to pick up might be up there since it has 800TVL. Certain Sony Wegas get good all around praise for their nice pictures as well. I see other consumer brands being mentioned as well. The consensus around here with consumer crt's is to take the best that you can get locally. You might actually already be good with the Panasonic you have.

So Nec made a 29 inch XM and XP. Why do I hear more about the XM then the XP if the XP has the ability to do more resolutions? Also what all do you know about the BVMD32E1WU? I am on the hunt on that one and it's currently in my top 3 list and very possible it would be ranked 1 on that list. I'm not too concerned about space since I'll either have the room or I'll make it work if I don't. I like the larger sizes so I can actually sit back a bit further and not need to be so close up.
On a different note besides Ebay or Craigslist whats the best method in finding professional grade monitors? I have not been able to find any Mitsubishi Megaviews or Nec models. I can find some Sony BVMs as they pop uo enough.

[tacoguy64]

I am not entirely sure but my guess is that there are probably more XM29 made than there were XP29. More people running into the NEC XM29 means more posting about them on youtube which exposes them to more people. Those higher resolutions are nice but wouldn't stress out too much over them since you can game at 720p on either monitor and it would look good and identical. The only gaming situation that benefits from the extra resolution is PC gaming. Every other scenario both monitors will be virtually identical.

I don't know much about the BVM D32E1WU aside from what commonly known. It's 32' inches widescreen with 27' or 25' viewable display image in 4:3 aspect ratio. 1000TVL and aperture grill technology makes it the sharpest of the big crt rgb monitors. Wide multisync capabilities lets it display anywhere from 240p to 1080i, letting you hook up almost any console from the NES and up to todays consoles like the Wii U. It has some of the highest quality colors on any display. And all digital menu controls. It does come with its downsides in that they are pretty hard to find which makes them pretty expensive compared to the smaller models. They are heavy and bulky. And finally they are the most prone to failure of all the BVMs. It is normally a good idea to get one that was recently serviced by a tech. Other than that, I would say that this is one of the top monitors you can get.

And when we tell you that these monitors are hard to find, we weren't joking. It took me months of very constant searching to find mine and I got lucky. Other people can and have taken a lot longer. Ebay is by far the easiest place to find them but they are the most expensive. You also run the risk of damage through shipping. You can try looking at craigslist but they are very hard to come by. Try going to your local churches, auctions, public surplus auctions online, crt recycling centers, and old production studios.

The difficulty of finding a large rgb crt is the main reason they tell people to look for consumer crt tvs in their area instead. Because unless you strike gold and get lucky finding one right away then it's a whole lot of hassle.

[mvsfan]

if you do go the consumer route make sure you get a tv with component inputs unless you plan to rgb mod it.

component is a close second to rgb and often you can get a very nice picture out of it with some adjustment.

[Ikaruga11]

component is a close second to rgb and often you can get a very nice picture out of it with some adjustment.

Component is better than RGB on some consoles.

[Windfish]

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R4 ... m&_sacat=0

^Is this the famous BVM 20F1U? It's missing the Analog panel. Can I buy the panel separately and install it myself?

[Dragon89o]

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R4 ... m&_sacat=0

^Is this the famous BVM 20F1U? It's missing the Analog panel. Can I buy the panel separately and install it myself?

Yeah you can. The panel just is a cover.

The only gaming situation that benefits from the extra resolution is PC gaming.

And finally they are the most prone to failure of all the BVMs. It is normally a good idea to get one that was recently serviced by a tech. Other than that, I would say that this is one of the top monitors you can get.

And when we tell you that these monitors are hard to find, we weren't joking. It took me months of very constant searching to find mine and I got lucky. Other people can and have taken a lot longer. Ebay is by far the easiest place to find them but they are the most expensive. You also run the risk of damage through shipping. You can try looking at craigslist but they are very hard to come by. Try going to your local churches, auctions, public surplus auctions online, crt recycling centers, and old production studios.

The difficulty of finding a large rgb crt is the main reason they tell people to look for consumer crt tvs in their area instead. Because unless you strike gold and get lucky finding one right away then it's a whole lot of hassle.

Well I would at least like the option to connect a steam machine to the TV if I know there is a CRT that could do that better then another I'd try and find that one.

Also the the 32 has more chance of failure even compared to the 24 or they both the same?

I personally don't mind the hunt nor the price too much. I just want to make sure I don't over spend by too much. How much would you say the 20, 24, and 32 go for on ebay typically?

Also whats the better Ikegami models? Ikegami TM20-90RH vs Ikegami HTM-2050R or is there a better model from that brand and what are the pros and cons compared to the Sony BVMs?

And how much better is component to s video? And what sony high end consumer line tv would you all suggest? I just picked up the Mitusbishi for free. I'll have to upload some photos later in the week once I set up consoles to it. I'm looking to pick up a couple more high end consumer tvs until I get the professional grade monitors.

Last thing. I saw a NEC CRT FP2141 SB. It's a higher end consumer level PC monitor. What do you guys think of this for the dream cast? How does it compare to consumer tvs besides the lack of inputs?

[FinalBaton]

The XM37 Plus, although listed at 1280x1024, can actually do higher resolutions with a PC :

On my PC I've tested with success these on the XM37 Plus :


1280x1024
1400x1050
1680x1050
1920x1080

All at 60Hz.

Note that when you select a widescreen-ish resolution from your PC, like 1920x1080, the image's aspect ratio will be wrong, but you can easily remedy that by adjusting the monitor's height and width image settings.


Also for some reason the XM37 Plus won't do 1920x1080 from the PS3 or a blu-ray player, although it will do it for a PC or the XRGB-3. It can do the PS3 and BRP's 1080i and 720p, though.



The XM29 PLus is listed at 1024x768 max, but maybe it goes a little higher with a PC. who knows

[Windfish]

Yeah you can. The panel just is a cover.

Just a cover? This looks like more than just a cover:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SONY-BKM-20D-AN ... SwE7RXF8fq

Or am I misundertanding?

[Dragon89o]

Yeah you can. The panel just is a cover.

Just a cover? This looks like more than just a cover:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SONY-BKM-20D-AN ... SwE7RXF8fq

Or am I misundertanding?

Sorry, miss read your question. Thought you were referring to not liking the empty slot. Yeah you can buy that and install it.

[tacoguy64]

The XM37 Plus, although listed at 1280x1024, can actually do higher resolutions with a PC :

On my PC I've tested with success these on the XM37 Plus :


1280x1024
1400x1050
1680x1050
1920x1080

All at 60Hz.

Note that when you select a widescreen-ish resolution from your PC, like 1920x1080, the image's aspect ratio will be wrong, but you can easily remedy that by adjusting the monitor's height and width image settings.


Also for some reason the XM37 Plus won't do 1920x1080 from the PS3 or a blu-ray player, although it will do it for a PC or the XRGB-3. It can do the PS3 and BRP's 1080i and 720p, though.



The XM29 PLus is listed at 1024x768 max, but maybe it goes a little higher with a PC. who knows

Yeah, pc monitors can go above their max advertised resolution ratings. I haven't tried experimenting going above what my monitor is supposed to do but there is software that can push resolution and refresh rates. Though usually it's not advised.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R4 ... m&_sacat=0

^Is this the famous BVM 20F1U? It's missing the Analog panel. Can I buy the panel separately and install it myself?

Yeah you can. The panel just is a cover.

The only gaming situation that benefits from the extra resolution is PC gaming.

And finally they are the most prone to failure of all the BVMs. It is normally a good idea to get one that was recently serviced by a tech. Other than that, I would say that this is one of the top monitors you can get.

And when we tell you that these monitors are hard to find, we weren't joking. It took me months of very constant searching to find mine and I got lucky. Other people can and have taken a lot longer. Ebay is by far the easiest place to find them but they are the most expensive. You also run the risk of damage through shipping. You can try looking at craigslist but they are very hard to come by. Try going to your local churches, auctions, public surplus auctions online, crt recycling centers, and old production studios.

The difficulty of finding a large rgb crt is the main reason they tell people to look for consumer crt tvs in their area instead. Because unless you strike gold and get lucky finding one right away then it's a whole lot of hassle.

Well I would at least like the option to connect a steam machine to the TV if I know there is a CRT that could do that better then another I'd try and find that one.

Also the the 32 has more chance of failure even compared to the 24 or they both the same?

I personally don't mind the hunt nor the price too much. I just want to make sure I don't over spend by too much. How much would you say the 20, 24, and 32 go for on ebay typically?

Also whats the better Ikegami models? Ikegami TM20-90RH vs Ikegami HTM-2050R or is there a better model from that brand and what are the pros and cons compared to the Sony BVMs?

And how much better is component to s video? And what sony high end consumer line tv would you all suggest? I just picked up the Mitusbishi for free. I'll have to upload some photos later in the week once I set up consoles to it. I'm looking to pick up a couple more high end consumer tvs until I get the professional grade monitors.

Last thing. I saw a NEC CRT FP2141 SB. It's a higher end consumer level PC monitor. What do you guys think of this for the dream cast? How does it compare to consumer tvs besides the lack of inputs?

Both BVMs might have the same specs but they use different components. The larger size of the 32' model makes all the difference in the world of electronics. You also looking for smaller monitors?

Can't say much about Ikegami monitors. All I know is they use shadow mask technology and come in a few different models. Generally they are nice. Oh and I think most models I've seen dont do multi-sync.

S-Vdeo is the minimum I would want out of my display. The jump from S-video to component can be big. Usually you will see a sharper images with deeper colors. Some systems can give you a really nice output from S-video and some can look really good in component.

PC monitors are a good alternative to rgb crts. The only thing to keep in mind is that most PC monitors cant do multi-sync, which means you will need to pair the monitor with a line doubling device like the xrgb 3 or the OSSC. Also high end pc monitors are no bigger than 23' inches. The dreamcast really looks amazing when paired with a nice pc crt. That NEC monitor you listed is a really nice one if you decide to go that route.

[Dragon89o]

Yeah, pc monitors can go above their max advertised resolution ratings. I haven't tried experimenting going above what my monitor is supposed to do but there is software that can push resolution and refresh rates. Though usually it's not advised.

Yeah, that would be interesting increasing it's resolution or refresh rate. I guess that would decrease the lifespan of that monitor? Also this may be a dumb question but it's been years since I used a CRT for a PC. Do they also have scanlines like TVs and if they do how do they compare in terms of how many TVL a PC Monitor has vs a TV?

Both BVMs might have the same specs but they use different components. The larger size of the 32' model makes all the difference in the world of electronics. You also looking for smaller monitors?

Can't say much about Ikegami monitors. All I know is they use shadow mask technology and come in a few different models. Generally they are nice. Oh and I think most models I've seen dont do multi-sync.

S-Vdeo is the minimum I would want out of my display. The jump from S-video to component can be big. Usually you will see a sharper images with deeper colors. Some systems can give you a really nice output from S-video and some can look really good in component.

PC monitors are a good alternative to rgb crts. The only thing to keep in mind is that most PC monitors cant do multi-sync, which means you will need to pair the monitor with a line doubling device like the xrgb 3 or the OSSC. Also high end pc monitors are no bigger than 23' inches. The dreamcast really looks amazing when paired with a nice pc crt. That NEC monitor you listed is a really nice one if you decide to go that route.

So shadow mask technology that sounds familiar. Doesn't another brand use that too? So you don't know any other cons or pros to them? If they are on the same level as a BVM or a PVM? Or their TVL count?

Also in terms of modding your TV to output RGB not every TV would be compatible of that and if there is no guide on my specific tv how hard would it be to apply another guide for another tv to a different tv? Obviously things would be in different places but what I'm pulling RGB from would or could look similar and I would just need to find what ever "that" is right? (At least in theory)

Does anyone know of any other good PC CRTs? From the person that is personally selling that monitor he had listed it as top 3 PC CRT monitors due to what it is capable of and where it placed in top 3 would be subjective. I can buy it for around 60 and that is with out offering a better offer and possibly getting less. He used it for his dream cast. So is it even worth it?

The term multi-sync refers to a monitor or tv having several different inputs? Just making sure we are on the same page because I already knew that would be a con with a PC monitor. So I would have to get converters or a switch to have several inputs correct? Also rgb can technically go through VGA but the monitor/tv has to be capable of taking the signal? If not or even so lets ignore that previous statement. How does VGA normally compare to S video and component?

[tacoguy64]

Surprisingly, pc crts do in fact have the ability to display scan lines. They aren't as pronounced as they are on other displays but they are definitely there. Very easy to miss if you don't pay attention. And TVL is a analog spec not digital. PC crts use pixels to measure resolution the TVL rating does not apply.

Shadow mask and aperture grill are just two different manufacturing technologies used when making crts. At their most mature points, I would say neither was better than the other, they are just different. People around here are split between the two.

I don't have any knowledge about that TV to RGB TV mod, your best bet is to check out that thread which is active at this time. People there should be able to help you with any question you have.

Generally high end PC crt that are above 20 inches are going to be good. I am not sure about the specific brands but generally Mitsubishi, NEC, Sony, and Viewsonics are what to look out for. I also remember hearing about other companies using rebranded Sony monitors and selling them as their own. I think Gateway and dell might have sold some. I'm not sure if that particular NEC model is considered top 3 since most high end crt's were all really close in terms of capabilities.

[sky-13]

Barco also made 32 inch multisync RGB monitors. The one I ran into had both BNC and believe it or not a native RGB SCART port. The monitor only supported 240p to 480p. These must be fairly old professional CRTs which makes it much harder to find with a decent screen.

I wish I could recommend it, but mine died in shipping , all I can really say is they exist and are incredibly heavy. One positive is that unlike other 25+ inch RGB monitors, Barcos seem to have flown under the radar and are, usually, very reasonably priced.

[Ed Oscuro]

And TVL is a analog spec not digital. PC crts use pixels to measure resolution the TVL rating does not apply.

Not really - the world's analog. We can just assume that when using the native resolution of the set that the TVL should always be equivalent to the native height of the set (assuming a square or wider display), but the concept behind TVL still works, and still is used when judging resolution during motion or when scaling.

[Dragon89o]

So whats the difference between the A24E1WU and the D24E1WU?

[Fudoh]

the most important difference is that the D series comes with a RGB/YUV input board by default, while the A series doesn't. And finding one its own is very hard.

[tevey]

And the A models have a different board connector so older boards doesn't fit in the A model.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

[Dragon89o]

Also from what I can find. The a model is newer then the d model. The d models were made in the 90s where the last known manufactured a model seems to be 2009? Can't confirm that last part though. So the a models are more likely to have less hours. So are all boards harder to find for the a series or only the one that didn't come by default with the a series that the d series did?

[tacoguy64]

And TVL is a analog spec not digital. PC crts use pixels to measure resolution the TVL rating does not apply.

Not really - the world's analog. We can just assume that when using the native resolution of the set that the TVL should always be equivalent to the native height of the set (assuming a square or wider display), but the concept behind TVL still works, and still is used when judging resolution during motion or when scaling.

True but you don't see anything nowadays being measured in TVL. At least not when it comes to newer monitors. Still makes what I said wrong though

Actually it looks like some crt pc monitors can do multi sync.

Yeah, I know there are some but I don't have much knowledge about them. Most those monitors I believe came out in the late 80s and early 90s.

[Fudoh]

True but you don't see anything nowadays being measured in TVL. At least not when it comes to newer monitors. Still makes what I said wrong though

digital displays have a fixed resolution, there's no sense in using the TVL spec any longer.

On PC CRTs I hardly ever saw a "optimal" resolution being listed. The specs usually just tell you the maximum supported resolution based on the horizontal refresh rate the monitor has. This resolution is usually higher than what the TVL would tell you. Basically the maximum supported resolution at a certain refresh rate comes down to the chassis used, while the TVL rating is something derived from the tube and it's mask itself.

A good example is the 900 or 1000 TVL specification on the multi-sync BMVs. This tells you that a 20" BVM has it's resolution sweetspot at 1280x720p, while the chassis supports a 1920x1080i resolution although the tube (with its 900-1000 TVL) cannot resolve the full horizontal resolution of 1920 pixels.

The same is true for a lot of classic PC CRTs, where the optimal resolution based on the TVL would be around 1280x960 while the monitor itselfs supports resolution up to 1600x1200 just as well.

[Guspaz]

I had a 19" monitor that maxed out at 1600x1200 (the Viewsonic A90, IIRC), and while everything was really tiny, and it flickered a lot being at 60Hz, the individual pixels were still discernible. But it was too unpleasant (tiny and flickery) to be usable, so I mostly stuck to the highest resolution that got 75Hz: 1280x1024.

Nobody talked about TVL for PC CRTs back then, it was never even a listed/available spec in any technical documentation. Everybody talked instead about the dot pitch.

[Einzelherz]

Nobody talked about TVL for PC CRTs back then, it was never even a listed/available spec in any technical documentation. Everybody talked instead about the dot pitch.

In theory, aren't they the same/close to the same thing? I've even seen professional monitors brochures that mention the dot pitch.