XRGB-3

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Fudoh
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by Fudoh »

So it seems this is a capacitor issue in the XRGB-3's PSU. My Furman units are 120V 60hz. Could connecting my XRGB-3 to this blow the capacitors? or was this just something that happens over time with the XRGB-3's PSU?
yes, you need PSU replacement or PSU recap. And yes, it's basically happening to all the XRGB-3 PSUs.
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BuckoA51
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by BuckoA51 »

The XRGB3 used an unusual DC adapter tip didn't it? Wouldn't simply chopping that off and attaching it to a suitable replacement PSU be a viable solution too?
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Fudoh
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by Fudoh »

finding a replacement is actually the bigger problem. I think it used a 11V PSU.
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mikejmoffitt
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by mikejmoffitt »

I would be shocked if a 10 or 12V PSU wouldn't work just fine. There's no way it isn't being regulated down to 5, 3.3, etc internally.
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Edward_Tz
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by Edward_Tz »

All the XRGB-3 power supplies are affected? I thought the new ones fixed the cap issue of the old power bricks.
My power supply has been fine. It's one of the newer ones.

You can get one of the variable power supplies from Mouser or digikey. The 12v ones can usually be adjusted a bit. Read the datasheet before ordering. That's what I'll most likely do if users are reporting that newer XRGB-3 power supplies are dying.
kel
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by kel »

mikejmoffitt wrote:I would be shocked if a 10 or 12V PSU wouldn't work just fine. There's no way it isn't being regulated down to 5, 3.3, etc internally.
There may be a 9v regulator in there also for the AN15865A IC if I remember correctly. A 10v power supply may be a little on the low side if so.
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lordnikon
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by lordnikon »

I would think cap replacement would be a piece of cake in this instance? Its a small board with just two caps side by side. A $2.49 fix. Even if one doesn't have solder experience, this would be the perfect gateway project. I actually fall into this category. Might as well if the PSU is already on the fritz.

As stated by ikaruga007, the caps needed are:

Code: Select all

16V 1000uF low ESR
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lordnikon
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by lordnikon »

How does one safely open the XRGB-3's AC Adapter/PSU for repair?
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ApolloBoy
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by ApolloBoy »

Just get a new one with similar specs, fixing the PSU usually isn't worth it.
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lordnikon
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by lordnikon »

Thanks ApolloBoy, my initial ebay searches were too simplistic, so I assumed a capacitor replacement was the way to go. I dug back a bit further and found kazuo's post here, which lead me to find viable replacement adapters: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 09#p989809

The XRGB-3's adapter is 11V 2A, so I am planning on buying this adaper:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/370304104919

Then using this guide to do the tip replacement and check for wire polairty:
http://www.silysavg.com/tutorials/ac-dc ... izing.html
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Strider77
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by Strider77 »

It's two caps particularly that go bad. It's a super easy and cheap fix.
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Licentious Howler
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by Licentious Howler »

Hello everybody.

My apologies that my first post on this forum happens to be a series of questions (if such a thing is looked down upon here) and pretty complex ones at that, but I figured there's really no other knowledge base on the web so specialized in linedoublers/upscalers, so I'd just take it right up to the experts. I also apologize if questions like this and info regarding the XRGB 3 has been answered elsewhere, but I honestly could not find any info like this on the web, and this huge thread can be a bit difficult to parse with the search function.

Anyway, first a little bit of a preface:

I have paired an XRGB 3 with a Mitsubishi Diamondtron (Diamond Plus 200), and after 2 weeks of tweaking and getting familiar with the device (and updating to the latest English firmware), the results are nothing short of spectacular (due in large part to the monitor... somehow... having natural raster lines at 31 khz and a few neighboring resolutions). I have tested a wide range of consoles from an NES to a Playstation 3, and I am extremely satisfied with just about every one of them, but there are a few small hiccups I'm running into...


My first issue is with that age-old, well-documented issue with bright flashes of white knocking out the screen in B1 mode, but in my testing, I noticed that the "Game In" port seems to be less susceptible to this issue (but certainly doesn't fix it 100%). (I could explain why I came to this conclusion in more detail if anybody cares.)

I will be picking up sync stripping SCART cables to remedy the situation for RGB signals (I've needed to pick up higher quality cables for a long time anyway), but as for component video signals, I'm not sure how to feed that into the "Game In" adapter... The XRGB 3 wiki and Fudoh's writing on the matter both say something along the lines of: 'You can "If you have a suitable adaptor"', and a few old posts in this thread seem to indicate that something like this may do the trick:

Image

Can anybody confirm if those did work?

Furthermore, would I be correct in assuming that component through the "Game In" port would support 480p and higher?

If I can get something that works and find I'm pleased with the results, perhaps I could even try feeding S-video and composite>YPbPr adapters in there too... I doubt anybody would have recommendations for going down that path? (There are a couple dozen games that I really prefer over composite, eg. dithery Sega Genesis and 3D Playstation titles, many Atari 2600 games, etc. so I at least want to give this a try.)


The only other issues I'm having is that in order to keep colour purity, I have to adjust the NTSC Dot Clock on some consoles using composite or S-video, which I can live with in most cases... except the NES. I have to adjust it pretty far, pretty much to the absolute acceptable threshold, but this sounds like an inherent limitation to the XRGB 3. If I send it through a composite>component adapter, it might solve the issue though... if not, I might just have to live with B0 mode in this case.

I guess if anybody is familiar with this issue...???

And finally, B0 mode kinda blows--as in, it always seems to look blurrier than B1, and while the "Pixel Mapping" greatly improves the scaling, it seems to break most of the screen adjustment settings within the XRGB 3, leaving me adjusting my monitor to its max to get the right aspect. But I guess there's no fixing that according to the research I've done.


Btw, do B2 and B3 do anything different than B0? I could never spot a difference.


Thanks for any replies, and my apologies if I asked some noobish questions.
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Fudoh
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by Fudoh »

Can anybody confirm if those did work?
the pictured adapter would only work if it was a JP21 pinout, but I very much doubt that these are available with anything but a straight EURO pinout.

And yes, the JP21 input on the XRGB-3 supports D2 as well (D2 = 480p), but it does not support composite or s-video, just component and RGB.

Why do you deal with composite on your NES ? Get yourself a RGB mod, especially with this kind of setup.
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by Licentious Howler »

Oh wow, I didn't expect Fudoh to reply to me first...!
the pictured adapter would only work if it was a JP21 pinout, but I very much doubt that these are available with anything but a straight EURO pinout.
Ah dang it, I knew I forgot to mention something important...!

I don't own any JP21 cables--it's all Euro SCART, but I'm using a simple Euro>JP21 adapter.

I honestly don't know how component is passed through the SCART cables/inputs... would the Euro>JP21 adapter also have to explicitly support component for this to work, or does it just use the existing pins in a way that pretty much any old cable/adapter can understand...?
Why do you deal with composite on your NES ? Get yourself a RGB mod, especially with this kind of setup.
I'm looking into it in the somewhat near future, but I still would like to leave composite as a viable alternative supposing I find some NES game(s) that seem(s) to benefit from it (I tend to prefer games like Silent Hill or Vectorman over composite, for example), so I was kind of hoping I could get that working with the XRGB 3 nicely.

Thanks for your input anyway.
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BuckoA51
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by BuckoA51 »

Component is passed over SCART cables using the RGB lines for Y, Pb and Pr, so if you went Component->that adapter you pictured->scart to JP21->XRGB3 it would work.

I found on my XRGB3 that the game in had less noise than the other component video inputs. I never had problems with picture blanking and component sources though.
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by Licentious Howler »

Oh wow, and I got Bucko! I asked for experts, and I sure did receive!

That's great to hear about the component signal, so I put one on order.

(Now hopefully I'll have better luck with the build quality on these sorts of adapters than I usually do.)

I never had problems with picture blanking and component sources though.
Thankfully, it's pretty rare for me; I had it happen once during the intro to Super Mario Galaxy, and with some 240p test suite patterns (which didn't bother me much, really), but the moment I decided I should try to do something about it was when it blanked during common spell effects in Final Fantasy Tactics.

It's kind of funny, because this wouldn't be as much of an issue if I could just get equal (or at least a bit closer) picture quality in B0 mode. I hardly need the low latency for a turn-based RPG after all.

Thanks for your time, again.
Edward_Tz
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by Edward_Tz »

Well seems I got hit with a power supply issue. Had this XRGB-3 for over a year now. Newer style power supply.

Symptoms.
When first powered on the picture drops in and out. Basically cycles about 3-5 times then it goes "normal" and I can access the menu.
Sometimes it'll hang with the AV light on like there's an input. (There nothing connected) This usually fixes itself after about 30 seconds.
New settings wont save.

Cracked open the power supply and I see nothing obvious. Measures 11.2v. Seems fine in that regard.

Think it could be something else?

*edit
Did a reset and all problems seems to have gone today. May still get a new power supply just to be safe. Probably should had done that off the bat but these power supply issues reported here got me paranoid.
ShadowofBob
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by ShadowofBob »

I just picked up an XRGB-3 to use on my Genesis/CDX, Saturn, and SNES all with composite sync cables in B1 mode. All are connected using a SCART to VGA cable going into D2 (set to RGBS) input. So far I've been playing around with it trying to figure everything out. Got it flashed with the latest English firmware successfully. It appears the PSU was replaced at some point with a 12V 2amp unit as I can see the tip has being soldered/heat sinked to the new PSU wire. Have a few questions and observations.

First off, I noticed that in B1 the SNES has a "shaky" signal on my Panasonic plasma (GT50, circa 2012). However, my Saturn looks great and totally stable so I'm wondering this is just a result of line doubling the SNES off spec sync signal. Even the menu for the XRGB-3 seems "shaky" when the SNES is plugged in. I can limit this effect by using scan lines as it makes it harder to notice. The "shakiness" doesn't occur on my CRT PC monitor or LCD computer monitor.

Next, when in B1 mode what exactly does the Mode button on the front of the unit do? It says it changes the resolution on the OSD but I am certain it is still 640x480 according to my LCD monitor and CRT. For some reason my Panasonic Plasma doesn't like anything other than when the OSD says 640x480. I did notice that when the OSD says "640x480" that the source has pillar boxing on the sides. Is this for SNES games to give them square pixels? All other resolution modes in B1 stretch the image to the edge of the screen.
I also noticed that using the mode button in B1 dims the output significantly. The only way to restore original brightness is to select the resolution then put the XRGB-3 in standby and turn it back on. This restores original brightness to whatever resolution you selected.

Lastly has anyone ever had issues with B0 mode being broken? I knowingly purchased the XRGB-3 at a discount since it had known problems in B0 which is fine, but figured I'd troubleshoot a bit in case it is fixable. The image is largely chopped up and overlaid on top of itself multiple times. This happens regardless of DVI or VGA output and is the same result on all 3 displays I tried it on. The OSD menu is fine though. I thought this might be a bad firmware flash when I got it, but flashing to the latest firmware had no effect. Doing a reset doesn't change anything either. See screenshot below.

Image

Image
Last edited by ShadowofBob on Sun Apr 17, 2016 5:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
Edward_Tz
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by Edward_Tz »

B0 mode wont work on my TV without the signal going through a rgb interface.

XRGB-3 has slight image jitter issues. Can make it unnoticeable with most consoles.
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by Licentious Howler »

Giving an update about using a component>SCART adapter:

It has improved the stability of the picture over component sources a great deal.

As this one GIF is already 10 MB, I won't provide any other visual examples:

http://i.imgur.com/e67auBS.gifv

("Before" is with D-Terminal, "After" is with the Game In port.
Oh, and my apologies about the quality--it's just a cheap phone camera, but it shows the effect well enough.)

Every 240p test suite pattern works perfectly now, so do the spell effects Final Fantasy Tactics (that I could test anyway). I had to go through a lot of games to find even one that exhibits the sync issue anymore, and so far the only one is the intro to God of War II (lightning), and oddly enough, only on the PS2 version--the PS3 "HD" version remains stable in that instance.

Interestingly, it also reduced my 240p/480i switch time by ~1/4-~1/3 of a second.

I guess if anybody was interested in fixing their sync issues with component sources, you might try feeding it through the Game In port like I did--but only if you have a SCART>JP-21 adapter, of course!

I did notice a teeny tiny bit more noise with this setup, but I can only notice it on flat color test patterns--never during an actual game, but that could just be my cables for all I know.





I suppose I can try my hand at answering some of ShadowofBob's questions...
I noticed that in B1 the SNES has a "shaky" signal on my Panasonic plasma (GT50, circa 2012).
Really late reply, sorry, but perhaps modifying the AFC setting could remedy this?
Next, when in B1 mode what exactly does the Mode button on the front of the unit do? It says it changes the resolution on the OSD but I am certain it is still 640x480 according to my LCD monitor and CRT.
B1 mode seems to ignore any settings related to resolution, and simply acts as a passthrough as far as I can tell (unless it's linedoubling sources lower than 480p, of course). This was extremely evident to me, as using a PS3 at 720p results in my monitor matching that resolution. As for why the OSD still reports your specified resolution, as opposed to the one it's currently outputting, I dunno.

My guess is the mode button simply doesn't work (or doesn't work like it's supposed to) unless you're in B0. As for why it darkens the screen, I've noticed lots of settings can do that to my unit; for example, if I enable V-Sync at all, then my screen is always dimmer, even after a power cycle. Thankfully, I haven't had a need for it yet.
I did notice that when the OSD says "640x480" that the source has pillar boxing on the sides. Is this for SNES games to give them square pixels? All other resolution modes in B1 stretch the image to the edge of the screen.
I can't seem to reproduce that behaviour at all.

And yes, that B0 mode looks fantastically broken. I can't get anything even close to that mess.

B0 mode wont work on my TV without the signal going through a rgb interface.
I guess it could be your TV, as opposed to your XRGB-3, but I can use any source in B0.
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Fudoh
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by Fudoh »

B1 mode seems to ignore any settings related to resolution, and simply acts as a passthrough as far as I can tell (unless it's linedoubling sources lower than 480p, of course).
while it does ignore the higher output resolutions, it will change the underlying sync timing and it will make a small visual difference. Best (sync) compatibility is gained by setting the the output resolution to XGA, while VGA (640x480p) offers the best visuals. Setting it to something else might give you a black screen (will depend on your display).
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by ShadowofBob »

Fudoh wrote:
B1 mode seems to ignore any settings related to resolution, and simply acts as a passthrough as far as I can tell (unless it's linedoubling sources lower than 480p, of course).
while it does ignore the higher output resolutions, it will change the underlying sync timing and it will make a small visual difference. Best (sync) compatibility is gained by setting the the output resolution to XGA, while VGA (640x480p) offers the best visuals. Setting it to something else might give you a black screen (will depend on your display).
Thanks!
That definitely makes sense and matches the behavior I noticed myself. There seems to only be two settings for the mode button in B1. VGA (640x480), which is slightly pillar boxed, and everything else that horizontally stretches the content to the edges of the screen. Would be curious to see the actual changes in the sync signal.

I used my VGA to component transcoder (RCA brand) and it seems to clean up the shaky sync a lot compared to using my TVs VGA input straight from the XRGB-3. I've got a Gefen VGA to DVI transcoder/scaler coming tomorrow though so I'll probably just use that. Should be better than the VGA anyways since it will have SMPTE timing via HDMI on my TV.

No one else has had that odd behavior in B0?
Last edited by ShadowofBob on Tue May 03, 2016 6:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
Licentious Howler
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by Licentious Howler »

Fudoh wrote:while it does ignore the higher output resolutions, it will change the underlying sync timing and it will make a small visual difference. Best (sync) compatibility is gained by setting the the output resolution to XGA, while VGA (640x480p) offers the best visuals. Setting it to something else might give you a black screen (will depend on your display).
Oh, well no wonder I didn't notice any real differences then--I've only heavily tested this on my (unsurprisingly) very lenient CRT so far.

That's good to know if I ever have to use this on a different kind of display though, thanks for sharing.
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Laughingman.s9
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by Laughingman.s9 »

Can anyone post the xrgb3 picture settings or tell me how to reset them to factory?

I'm noticing alot of black crush on certain games compared to when I run them straight to my TV from my xselect d4

I want to fine tune my settings based off the original factory settings so I can determine if the problem is the xrgb3 or my admittedly complicated chain
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kel
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by kel »

Put it in standby mode and then hold the Menu and OK buttons while turning the unit on to reset to factory settings.

If it's anything like mine then it's probably the XRGB-3. I find the standard settings way too dark and it doesn't help that the picture settings seem to be mislabeled. It can be quite confusing working out which setting actually does what.
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by Laughingman.s9 »

kel wrote:Put it in standby mode and then hold the Menu and OK buttons while turning the unit on to reset to factory settings.

If it's anything like mine then it's probably the XRGB-3. I find the standard settings way too dark and it doesn't help that the picture settings seem to be mislabeled. It can be quite confusing working out which setting actually does what.
It might be, but I find no matter how much I tweak my settings I can't get certain details to shine thru when I compare it to just running my ps4 straight to the TV so I fear it could be my setup

For reference, this is how I have my setup right now

Ps2 running into my xselect d4, from there dsub to dsub connection to xrgb3, then dsub to extron203, from here simultaneously output to gefen vga to dvi and audio authority 9a60, from 9a60 to key digital msw4x2 component switch and then finally to my Sony w800b

There's in that chain that could potentially be degrading the signal but god do I love the picture when It finally gets to the TV apart from the darkness and black crush
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ApolloBoy
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by ApolloBoy »

I just bought an XRGB-3 yesterday, I'm looking forward to trying it out as I don't know if the 1080p output will work on my monitor (a Dell E2414H), and I have some rather unique video mods on a few of my consoles. I'll post results once it arrives.
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by ApolloBoy »

So my XRGB-3 came in today and I noticed that the B1 firmware hasn't been loaded. Will I have to completely reset the XRGB-3 or is there an easy way of doing it? I've tried looking around but it's really unclear on how to do any kind of firmware updates.
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by Edward_Tz »

ApolloBoy wrote:So my XRGB-3 came in today and I noticed that the B1 firmware hasn't been loaded. Will I have to completely reset the XRGB-3 or is there an easy way of doing it? I've tried looking around but it's really unclear on how to do any kind of firmware updates.
Wiki helps
http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/XRGB-3

Note that it wont work with Win 8 and later. At least for me it didn't.
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ApolloBoy
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by ApolloBoy »

Edward_Tz wrote: Wiki helps
It didn't help because it doesn't say anything about if you already have the latest firmware but not the B1 firmware. Doesn't the B1 firmware have to be loaded first before any newer firmware can be flashed?
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