Best shmup that you DIDN'T like/enjoy

Post by **Shatterhand** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:50 am

Yeah.. just don't do it in FRONT OF ME with a game I still haven't finished!

I don't know, I really don't see the point in credit feed a game like crazy, finish it, and never play it again - Which is exactly what those friends of mine do.

I have played Sonic Wings Special in 2p mode with a friend (Me being the player 1), and while in the beggining he was sucking at it, it didn't take too long (With a few advices from me) for him to keep it up with me.

I remember other friend I have... I told him I was playing Strikers 1945 II , saying how I was having a hard time to finish it... and then he comes "Oh man , that game is so easy! I finished it really quickly... then I sold the game".

Then I asked him.. "Did you see the ENDING and the 2nd loop?" and then he said "Ending? 2nd loop? What ending?"

He felt really stupid.

Nei First · Post by **Nei First** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 1:29 pm

I'll probably be outcasted for this... But I really just don't like Mars Matrix.

qatmix · Post by **qatmix** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 7:52 pm

I hate the infinite credits thing.

I like it when a game offers more credits due to playtime such as ikaruga etc

sffan · Post by **sffan** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 8:51 pm

I can TOTALLY identify with shatterhand: Watching someone else credit-feed a game and getting past my one-credit point is annoying as hell.

It's especially bad with games where the score doesn't reset to zero each continue, like SNS 2, so I have to pull out my memory card or else my friend will get an undeserved high score.

Or when someone got on my high score list in DDP-DOJ playing No Bullet Mode and continuing to the end. Grrrr!

I guess it's not their fault for not getting it, but still.

No continues is the way to go if you want the game to remain interesting. Just pretend it's like Xevious or some other old game where you can't continue even if you wanted to. They should have stuck with that tradition, but it's too late now of course.

Acid King · Post by **Acid King** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 9:00 pm

Shatterhand wrote:
I don't know, I really don't see the point in credit feed a game like crazy, finish it, and never play it again - Which is exactly what those friends of mine do.

See, that's just stupid. Credit feeding has its place though, which is why I think back lash against people who do is kinda ridiculous (except those types you mentioned. "Man that game was easy because I used 100 continues and kept tapping the bomb button"). I credit feed games to the end so I can see what's coming up. I've credit fed ikaruga to the end dozens of times, each time it takes fewer continues and helps when I play for score because I know whats coming up, which helps extend my runs. Some people just don't want to play for score and just want to enjoy the game. Who says you have to play to get better or obsess over score to have fun with a shooter?

Blue Lander wrote:Radiant Silvergun is to shmups as Final Fantasy 7 is to RPGs. "Outsiders" think they're the best of their respective genres, but neither are all that terribly exciting. And all that mainstream hype sours "hardcore" gamers to those games.

Note:The following statement is not directed at anyone in particular.

I think some "hardcore" fans of shooters (and music and everything else, basically) just become elitist douchebags that hate anything that strikes a chord with people who are outside "the know". They'll dismiss stuff as crap because it doesn't fit into their narrow scope of expertise or taste and bitch about changes to gameplay or sound or what not. It all comes down to personal taste and the worst taste is [Mod edit Dylan1CC disparaging/inflammatory comment edited ] of the "I OWN SIX THOUSAND PCBS AND I'VE ONE CREDITED THEM ALL!!! IKARUGA SUCKS BALLS AND IS NOT A SHOOTER, YOU STUPID NOOB!!!" kind. Generally, it's more understated than that, but you get my drift.

Dylan1CC · Post by **Dylan1CC** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 10:12 pm

^^^^

It's OK to vent a bit but keep the anger reigned in. None of this "People who 1 credit are elitist @#$%^" nonsense.

Get back on topic please and no more personal attacks on specific types of players from either the "score/1cc" vs the "casual player" camp. `

Devilsheep · Post by **Devilsheep** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:06 pm

Hmm...so do any of you really know what those last stages are like?

As for a shooter I didn't like...um...

Philosoma

Great premise and scary game, but after playing it recently I've lost interest in it.

Acid King · Post by **Acid King** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:27 pm

Dylan1CC wrote:^^^^

It's OK to vent a bit but keep the anger reigned in. None of this "People who 1 credit are elitist @#$%^" nonsense. Get back on topic please and no more personal attacks on specific types of players from either the "score/1cc" vs the "casual player" camp. `

I didn't call people who 1CC games elitists, you missed the point of my post completely. My point is that some people take things too far and view themselves as the last word in what's good and what's not good and disregard casual opinions because of their self ascribed status. Their opinions have almost nothing to do with quality but with their projections on the genre.

adam76 · Post by **adam76** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 11:08 pm

Ikaruga, for me, just feels like an exercise in memorization. Most any shooter has a certain reliance on memory but this feels moreakin to a school test-its just not FUN! R-type makes me feel positively guilty about not liking it because its held with such reverance by so many people but i just find it way to unforgiving.

tehkao · Post by **tehkao** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 12:30 am

Another really mediocre shmup IMHO that inexplicably gets a lot of attention is GBA Gradius Galaxies....it wasn't even developed by Konami themselves.

Ceph · Post by **Ceph** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 4:28 pm

To revive this old thread: Ikaruga. I own it, I try to like it but somehow I can't enjoy it; probably because the black/white system doesn't allow for any relaxation. To me, Ikaruga is more chore than fun. I urge Treasure to make no successor that includes color-switching of the ship.

PS. on the other hand, collecting bullets using the ship's sword in RSG is fine IMO.

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 4:34 pm

i hate dangun feveron.. its the only time i regretted not playing MAME

that game sucks, i cant understand why so many like it...

Xexyz · Post by **Xexyz** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 4:43 pm

I tend to like most shmups, especially the simpler ones. That might be the reason why I don't really care for Ikaruga & DDP: DOJ.

Post by **Dave_K.** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:51 pm

sven666 wrote:i hate dangun feveron.. its the only time i regretted not playing MAME that game sucks, i cant understand why so many like it...

Dangun is the ultimate "twitch reflex" shmup. It a nice break/alternative to the typical cave shmup. But since its so difficult (twitch wise), it turns most off as it will take awhile to even beat any of the default scores!

On the first page of this thread I posted my initial dislike of DDPDOJ. Well its been almost a year now, and after 1CCing the first loop of DDP I can finally appreciate the difficulty of DOJ. I still haven't really played it much, only because there are so many other great shmups I could be playing. So I give it a little time maybe once a month, and only play for the 1CC, or in this case, just as far as I can make it in the game disregarding score and chains. I feel sorry for people who buy this and think they can master it in any reasonable length of time.

Neon · Post by **Neon** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 6:02 pm

tehkao wrote:I'm shocked that so many people here don't like Souky...why? It's one of the most playable shmups around...I can see why it would not be your top 5 but to say you can't "stand it" is inconceivable to me.

I didn't like the web mechanic, terrible soundtrack also. In all the game really pales next to Garegga, Batrider IMO.

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 6:12 pm

Neon wrote:
tehkao wrote:I'm shocked that so many people here don't like Souky...why? It's one of the most playable shmups around...I can see why it would not be your top 5 but to say you can't "stand it" is inconceivable to me.

I didn't like the web mechanic, terrible soundtrack also. In all the game really pales next to Garegga, Batrider IMO.

I really like Souky, but I would now agree that it pales next to Garegga.

I guess these days the most-liked game that I'm still not enjoying is Layer Section. Still hasn't caught on with me.

DC906270 · Post by **DC906270** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 7:37 pm

I guess these days the most-liked game that I'm still not enjoying is Layer Section. Still hasn't caught on with me.

yeah, Layer Section is DULL, DULL, DULL

LSU · Post by **LSU** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 8:25 pm

R-Type(s) for me - I can see that they're obviously really well crafted games, but I just don't enjoy playing through them very much.

Edge · Post by **Edge** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 8:58 pm

Ikaruga is the one for me,
the gameplay couldn't click with me at all.

Acid King wrote:I didn't call people who 1CC games elitists, you missed the point of my post completely. My point is that some people take things too far and view themselves as the last word in what's good and what's not good and disregard casual opinions because of their self ascribed status. Their opinions have almost nothing to do with quality but with their projections on the genre.

I completely agree with you in this point. I really hate it when some people think they are the underground community and all other opinions are only from noobs. Anyones opinion is worth the same for me.

neojma · Post by **neojma** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:01 pm

I think this is an interesting question. It's a tough decision to find a shooter that you truly do think "hey, this is a pretty good game" yet for some reason you don't get into it even though you think it's a quality game. There are plenty of shmups I don't like, and to me that means I don't think they are "good" or the "best" of anything. I don't read the question as asking for a popular/well respected game in the community that my view personally deviates from the norm.

I dislike Radiant Silvergun. I know lots of people like it. That doesn't make it a "best" anything to me. I think it's a lousy shooter, lots of people think it's a great shooter - that's what it comes down to. I'm entitled to my own opinion, and my opinion is NOT that RS is a good game that I don't enjoy. If I really don't enjoy something, I can't understand how I could honestly believe it was good. Unless we define goodness based on popularity these days.

That being said, my choices:

1. Einhander to me fits the bill. I really am impressed by the audio-visual package, the bosses, the pacing. I like it and think it's a good game. However, I can't get over my apathy about actually playing the game.

2. Gradius V - same deal. I appreciate the work that went into it, but I just can't get myself excited to play it. I always pop it in and end up wanting to go back to Gaiden instead. It's technically excellent and plays by the Gradius formula (which I do enjoy), but it doesn't inspire me at all.

3. Twinkle Star Sprites. I like the ideas a lot, a blend of shooter, puzzler, and the competitve fighter feel. I like the colorful graphics and the control. I WANT to love this game, but every time I play it I just don't get into it.

*. I would have put Mushihimesama on this list until recently. It's Cave! It's bright! There are bullets everywhere! It has a weird insect theme! These are all things I appreciate. But I just got a ho-hum feeling from the game even though I could analyze the whole thing piece by piece and truly believe it is a good game. I try to rationalize it and explain my lethargic attitude by saying the PS2 port looks too blurry, or that the slowdown gets in my way of enjoying the game. But that isn't it - I just don't get the feeling that the sum of all the excellent parts equals an excellent whole. I say until recently though, because I've slowly been coming around to Mushihimesama and all the remixed PS2 modes over the past couple weeks. I think it's going to graduate to games I legitimately enjoy (though not as much as other Cave titles like EspGaluda, DDP, or DDP-DOJ).

Zweihander · Post by **Zweihander** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:12 pm

I love Dodonpachi Dao-Ou-Jou but i can never actually enjoy playing it... ><

Dandy J · Post by **Dandy J** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:20 pm

Acid King wrote: I didn't call people who 1CC games elitists, you missed the point of my post completely. My point is that some people take things too far and view themselves as the last word in what's good and what's not good and disregard casual opinions because of their self ascribed status. Their opinions have almost nothing to do with quality but with their projections on the genre.

Thing is, most of the "casual" players that like Ikaruga, like it because of the polarity system, which is fine. The polarity system is a wonderful and fun maechanic for a shmup. But they completely ignore the chaining system, which is usually the #1 reason why Ikaruga is disliked. If they cared as much about the scoring system as much as the "hardcore" players, they would probably hate it more than anyone here does.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 12:01 am

Among my previous year purchases, I'd say Harmful Park - It was cool, and challenging, but still not in the same league of crazyness I got from the Parodius packs (and not as cute as Twinbee, for that).

But speaking in general, my vote goes to Ikaruga.... Yeah, from what I read so far I'm definitely in good company here.

Acid King · Post by **Acid King** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 12:17 am

Dandy J wrote: Thing is, most of the "casual" players that like Ikaruga, like it because of the polarity system, which is fine. The polarity system is a wonderful and fun maechanic for a shmup. But they completely ignore the chaining system, which is usually the #1 reason why Ikaruga is disliked. If they cared as much about the scoring system as much as the "hardcore" players, they would probably hate it more than anyone here does.

That's assuming a lot. I could easily turn it around and say if the "hardcore" players could learn to disregard the scoring systems now and again, they would probably hate it a lot less than they currently do.

It's weird responding to posts I made almost a year ago.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 12:31 am

Acid King wrote: That's assuming a lot. I could easily turn it around and say if the "hardcore" players could learn to disregard the scoring systems now and again, they would probably hate it a lot less than they currently do.

Casual players should listen to casual players, etc. I seriously can't enjoy a game that was designed with an elaborate scoring system in mind without playing it for score most of the time. Games with thought out scoring systems always feel empty with those aspects ignored. The only exceptions I can think of are a few Cave games, and I wish I liked those scoring systems to get the full effect.

Sorry, there's no value in an opinion of a game where the core design is ignored. Otherwise it's just did the game "feel" cool? That's useless to me and anyone who can't get out of the habit of seeing the games for their entire package.

ahnslaught · Post by **ahnslaught** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 12:53 am

Hi all, I'm new to the forums here...

Anyways, back when it first came out, I thought MUSHA was great; however, playing it recently, I didn't really like it too much because the levels just seemed to drag on forever. Music's still great, though!

Acid King · Post by **Acid King** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 12:58 am

Rob wrote: Casual players should listen to casual players, etc. I seriously can't enjoy a game that was designed with an elaborate scoring system in mind without playing it for score most of the time. Games with thought out scoring systems always feel empty with those aspects ignored. The only exceptions I can think of are a few Cave games, and I wish I liked those scoring systems to get the full effect.

Sorry, there's no value in an opinion of a game where the core design is ignored. Otherwise it's just did the game "feel" cool? That's useless to me and anyone who can't get out of the habit of seeing the games for their entire package.

Whether or not you find a persons opinion valuable isn't at question. It's the fact that people shit on other peoples opinions because of some status they ascribe to themselves, cause they've been playing shooters for years and years or own a cabs. I've seen a ton of people shit on Ikaruga and Silvergun and keep harping on the fact that "mainstreamers" think they're the best shooters ever. Thats not attacking a game on the merits of the game, it's attacking it because of some bullshit image that people have in their heads cause they see themselves as more knowledgable and any opinion of someone not like them instantly turns to shit.

For example, everyone crapped on that guys review of Giga Wing 2 because he seemed so clueless, and in that situation, it makes sense. But if someone writes a review of Ikaruga and calls it the best shooter of all time because of the polarity and the chaining system (which I don't think any reviewer negelcted to mention or fan of the game does not know about), people shit on it because he "doesn't really know shooters." And that's bullshit.

elvis · Post by **elvis** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:18 am

Dave_K. wrote:
sven666 wrote:i hate dangun feveron.. its the only time i regretted not playing MAME that game sucks, i cant understand why so many like it...
Dangun is the ultimate "twitch reflex" shmup. It a nice break/alternative to the typical cave shmup. But since its so difficult (twitch wise), it turns most off as it will take awhile to even beat any of the default scores!

Interesting to see a few folks not liking Dangun Feveron. I don't have the time to play for hours apon hours, so memorisation-heavy games just shit me off. Dangun is a nice "turn your brain off and play" type game.

I much prefer to play shumps that rely wholly on reflexes. In fact, I'd love to see someone bring out a shmup that was totally randomised in enemy fire "patterns" (yes, I realise a "random pattern" is an oxymoron) and enemy locations. Pure reflex play, and no memorisation.

Maybe it's just me being all impatient-MTV-generation and whatnot, but I don't like playnig games that force me to play them 100 times over to memorise every level perfectly.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:25 am

Acid King wrote:I've seen a ton of people shit on Ikaruga and Silvergun and keep harping on the fact that "mainstreamers" think they're the best shooters ever. Thats not attacking a game on the merits of the game, it's attacking it because of some bullshit image that people have in their heads cause they see themselves as more knowledgable and any opinion of someone not like them instantly turns to shit.

I think people have an opinion of why those games aren't fun and also opinions of Treasure-philia, which are two different things. Honestly haven't seen anyone use that as a reason to "attack" the games. To make a cheap punchline, sure. Guilty.

Dandy J · Post by **Dandy J** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:55 am

neojma wrote:But I just got a ho-hum feeling from the game even though I could analyze the whole thing piece by piece and truly believe it is a good game. I try to rationalize it and explain my lethargic attitude by saying the PS2 port looks too blurry, or that the slowdown gets in my way of enjoying the game. But that isn't it - I just don't get the feeling that the sum of all the excellent parts equals an excellent whole.

Same here. Something about the game just doesn't agree with me. I think it's just a combination of the scaling/bullet patterns/hitboxes/score system...but like you said, maybe it'll grow on me.