Cloning the Gamecube component cable

[meneerbeer]

Bad Ass Consoles are working on a plug and play version, expected later in the year. It won't have the scanlines, line doubler/deinterlacer etc but, well, it will be plug and play.

I am pretty sure it will have them. The digital version can actually be built smaller than the analog version due to only needing an FPGA and not an extra DAC.

[lev11]

But if its plug and play how does the controller line get tapped into for the OSD?

@bobrocks95 the caps move about in different main board revisions, I've found hanging off spacers (from the drive cage) to be a pain for later access or maintenance, so prefer to mounting it from the mainboard instead. I'll try and get some pics to show what I mean.

[meneerbeer]

But if its plug and play how does the controller line get tapped into for the OSD?

@bobrocks95 the caps move about in different main board revisions, I've found hanging off spacers (from the drive cage) to be a pain for later access or maintenance, so prefer to mounting it from the mainboard instead. I'll try and get some pics to show what I mean.

You could add some buttons for that. Otherwise, it would also be possible to make a cable that allows intercepting the communication between the GameCube and the controller, just like the input displays you see on twitch.

[BuckoA51]

GCVideo Lite is aiming to be as affordable as possible and (unless there's been a change of plan) won't have those features. A button to access them would have to be pretty darn small

[Unseen]

Otherwise, it would also be possible to make a cable that allows intercepting the communication between the GameCube and the controller, just like the input displays you see on twitch.

I wouldn't feel very comfortable with such a solution unless that cable includes a bit of ESD protection for the line going to the FPGA. The point where it connects internally was chosen to utilize the Cube's own ESD protection hardware, but with an unprotected external connection there is a (small) chance that hot-plugging a controller fries the FPGA pin.

An IR remote might be a better option for a completely-external solution.

[meneerbeer]

Otherwise, it would also be possible to make a cable that allows intercepting the communication between the GameCube and the controller, just like the input displays you see on twitch.

I wouldn't feel very comfortable with such a solution unless that cable includes a bit of ESD protection for the line going to the FPGA. The point where it connects internally was chosen to utilize the Cube's own ESD protection hardware, but with an unprotected external connection there is a (small) chance that hot-plugging a controller fries the FPGA pin.

Protection circuitry would indeed be needed.

My point was more that there are still enough options to control the settings. So no need to omit the linedoubler etc.

[Guspaz]

If you're just trying to output RGB or component over analog, there is no need for a line doubler, or an OSD, or a remote control... I can see a possible need for that in an external HDMI cable, but when you're just trying to replace the component cable with something that doesn't cost $200, all that is going overboard.

[BONKERS]

If you're just trying to output RGB or component over analog, there is no need for a line doubler, or an OSD, or a remote control... I can see a possible need for that in an external HDMI cable, but when you're just trying to replace the component cable with something that doesn't cost $200, all that is going overboard.

Yup. This is all I want/need

[BuckoA51]

Got an e-mail from one of my customers who tried the GC HDMI mod with a Sony KDL-40HX800. This TV gives no picture in enhanced DVI mode unfortunately. The TVs from around 2010 so quite surprising that it doesn't work.

Enhanced DVI mode off does work, but obviously then no sound.

[Unseen]

Got an e-mail from one of my customers who tried the GC HDMI mod with a Sony KDL-40HX800. This TV gives no picture in enhanced DVI mode unfortunately. The TVs from around 2010 so quite surprising that it doesn't work.

Hmm, interesting. 2.0 or 2.1?

[BuckoA51]

2.1, all the mods we've shipped have been 2.1.

[RGB32E]

Unseen, is there ultimately no getting around "cheating" by incorporating a HDMI Tx IC instead of driving the HDMI output directly from the FPGA to achieve ~100% compatibility? Looks like the HDN/Analogue Nt, UltraHDMI, and RetroUSB's AVS all use HDMI Tx ICs.

[Unseen]

Unseen, is there ultimately no getting around "cheating" by incorporating a HDMI Tx IC instead of driving the HDMI output directly from the FPGA to achieve ~100% compatibility?

No, there is no reason why an FPGA implementation can't reach the same level of compatibility as a dedicated HDMI TX chip. You can even buy complete IP blocks from Xilinx that implement that function in an FPGA if you don't mind the price. Also remember that Kevtris bought an HDMI protocol analyzer to ensure that the output from his HDMI Tx chip was within specs and I'm pretty sure that it found at least one problem when he made a video about it.

And no, I'm not going to drop 2500 EUR on such a thing - I'm just a hobbyist: If it works for me, the primary goal has been accomplished and if it happens to work for others that's nice too. ;)

[RGB32E]

No, there is no reason why an FPGA implementation can't reach the same level of compatibility as a dedicated HDMI TX chip. You can even buy complete IP blocks from Xilinx that implement that function in an FPGA if you don't mind the price. Also remember that Kevtris bought an HDMI protocol analyzer to ensure that the output from his HDMI Tx chip was within specs and I'm pretty sure that it found at least one problem when he made a video about it.

And no, I'm not going to drop 2500 EUR on such a thing - I'm just a hobbyist: If it works for me, the primary goal has been accomplished and if it happens to work for others that's nice too.

Ok, fair enough! I recall Kevtris having a HDMI analyzer and that it was able to find some issues in the development of the UltraHDMI as well. I wonder if Kevtris would be interested in taking a look? RetroRGB is within driving distance of Kev, right?

[RGB0b]

RetroRGB is within driving distance of Kev, right?

Nope, you're thinking of Game-tech. I'm in the NYC-area.

[meneerbeer]

From what I have experienced myself, long cables will not work with GCVideo. A 4 meter HDMI cable did not work. If your TV does not seem to work with GCVideo, you should try a different cable, if you did not already.

[bobrocks95]

Want to selfishly bump this thread to ask Bucko if he has any insider info to give on his new board for GCVideoDVI. Looked like meneerbeer's solution in the MyLifeInGaming video, but I couldn't really say.

[leonk]

FWIW, the Hi Def NES HDMI output for some reason had compatibility issues with both my 2015 Marantz AVR as well as 2015 Samsung UNJ6300 (Samsung's top of the line 1080p TV). I had to cycle the ports until it recognized the HDMI signal from the NES and locked on.

When I switch the HDMI / HDCP off (I forgot the menu option .. I think it's DVI or something like that) both the TV and AVR instantly sync'ed all the time from cold boot.

HDCP is a pain in the ASS. Most AVR receiver firmware updates are due to compatibility upgrades because of HDCP! I wish HDCP never existed. The alliance tried to solve a problem that never was. Who in their right mind will try to capture uncompress digital stream out of HDMI for rebroadcast when dumping a Bluray disc is so much easier and quicker!! (and you don't have to worry about video recompression!)

[BuckoA51]

Want to selfishly bump this thread to ask Bucko if he has any insider info to give on his new board for GCVideoDVI.

It's not really my/our board (MLIG said it was I know), it's designed by a guy called Dan (goes by meneerbeer on here, didn't realise) who lives in Europe. It will be available in DIY versions too and first boards should be ready in about a month.

[Koop]

So from my understanding there's no fully external solution yet right?

I just don't want to have to buy those component cables, which I have been very close to doing recently. If anyone wants to give me hope to hold out just a bit longer lol...

[Guspaz]

BadAssConsoles has said that he's using the revenue from the internal solution to fund the external solution. So if too many people hold off on ordering the internal one to wait for the external one, then the internal one may not get made.

I'm torn. I want the external one so as to preserve my options and not make major changes to my cube, but then it might not get funded...

[BuckoA51]

I don't honestly see that big a market for this mod anyway, given there's so many alternative ways of playing Gamecube and GBA games. Obviously I love for folks to get whatever mods they want, but I don't anticipate this being anywhere near as popular as HDMI N64, for instance.

[Guspaz]

It's true that you can play GameCube games on a Wii, but it has softer component, and no HDMI option.

There is also no alternative to playing GBA games on a TV without emulation. The GBP is the only option that I'm aware of, apart from perhaps the Wide-Boy64 AGB, which is extremely rare and expensive since it was never sold to the general public.

[BuckoA51]

The difference in component output between Wii and GC is very slim though and the GB player has plenty of issues of its own (I should really stfu not like I'm going to be selling this mod or anything )

[leonk]

The difference in component output between Wii and GC is very slim though and the GB player has plenty of issues of its own (I should really stfu not like I'm going to be selling this mod or anything )

I find playing GC on the Wii to be a pain. All the extra steps just to get into the correct menu, switch controllers, etc. I'm lazy. I like the plug and play of the GC.

[Guspaz]

What are you talking about? The steps to play GC on the Wii is exactly the same as the steps to play a Wii game on the Wii. Insert the disc, select the disc channel. That's it. Done.

[bobrocks95]

What are you talking about? The steps to play GC on the Wii is exactly the same as the steps to play a Wii game on the Wii. Insert the disc, select the disc channel. That's it. Done.

It's annoying to have to use a Wii controller to get to it then switch to a Gamecube controller. And if you want to force 480p through Swiss loading the homebrew takes more steps than an SD Media Launcher or XenoGC in a Gamecube. Minor annoyances, but worth noting.

[RGB32E]

I don't honestly see that big a market for this mod anyway, given there's so many alternative ways of playing Gamecube and GBA games. Obviously I love for folks to get whatever mods they want, but I don't anticipate this being anywhere near as popular as HDMI N64, for instance.

Considering that the GCVideoDVI doesn't upscale (480p max), it's biggest benefit is a potentially less expensive alternative to the official component cables. Given the cost of installation and the kit, you're likely not going to be saving much over the current market price for the official GCN Component cable. A full blown solution like the UltraHDMI (N64) or a 1080p output (boxed 960p) would be ideal, but would require a higher performance FPGA, and be much more than just a component cable replacement. It's my understanding that MarshallH (UltraHDMI N64) isn't interested in making a GCN version due to higher cost design and this.

http://www.videogameperfection.com/2015 ... -gamecube/

it’s quite difficult to see what could be added to the Gamecube HDMI mod that hasn’t already been included. Perhaps true upscaling to 1080p or 4k? For most people that would simply be unnecessary since modern TVs already do a good job with 480p content anyway.

This is a gross generalization that in my experience is false. If this was truly the case, then there would be no benefit in any of the XRGB units outputting anything over 480p - to which some would dubiously agree! [sarcasm]Who needs sharp pixels anyways and what were Kevtris and Marshall thinking with their HDMI solutions?![/sarcasm] From discussions with Unseen he's indicated that higher performance FPGA would be required for upscaling and that he doesn't have the interest in implementing scaling that preserves "non-square" pixel aspect ratios claimed for all 4:3 GCN games.

That said, the 720x480 pixel screen captures located here show a 640 pixel wide image for both Soul Caliber and F-Zero. While there might be 720 samples per active line, it illustrates that both games only have 640 active pixels, and the remaining pixels are part of the horizontal blanking period that have been added by the FPGA as visible padding. Even the OSD shows a conversion of 640x480 to 720x480! This choice is understandable for 480p only, as most HDTVs require the extra pixels for proper input sampling. Hence, I do not believe the claim that "oh, your TV will do a better job of upscaling" is anything more than shenanigans, and isn't the whole story.

BuckoA51, have you captured any GCN games that actually have more than 640 active pixels? I could see how anamorphic widescreen could cause aspect ratio challenges when upscaling, but for 4:3 content, upscaling could be better done outside of a 1080p TV.

[BuckoA51]

Sets that are really bad at 480p up-scaling are quite rare in my experience. Sure, some do better jobs than others, but few make a real hash of it, plus adding an external upscaler is going to mean more input lag. N64 mostly outputs 240p so that's a different story entirely, and has that weird blur-filter on it. Not saying a full custom upscale FPGA solution for the Gamecube wouldn't be nice, but it's not needed as much as it was for the N64.

If this was truly the case, then there would be no benefit in any of the XRGB units outputting anything over 480p - to which some would dubiously agree!

I'd take a lag-free design over something that added a ton of input lag, yeah, though it's always good to have choices.

BuckoA51, have you captured any GCN games that actually have more than 640 active pixels?

Not that I remember, I'll keep an eye out.

[Shuco13]

What are you talking about? The steps to play GC on the Wii is exactly the same as the steps to play a Wii game on the Wii. Insert the disc, select the disc channel. That's it. Done.

It's annoying to have to use a Wii controller to get to it then switch to a Gamecube controller. And if you want to force 480p through Swiss loading the homebrew takes more steps than an SD Media Launcher or XenoGC in a Gamecube. Minor annoyances, but worth noting.

Just use priiloader and configure your boot process to your personal taste without the need of changing controllers. Once you've set it up it can't be any easier and individual.

I'm really starting to get upset about people constantly bashing the Wii just to justify more expanisve or complicated hardware. There's only one thing the Wii will never be able to do and that's playing gameboy games natively.
All the pros outweigh that by far: Wii game support, affordable component support, easier softmod, better and more homebrew support, built in Wifi, cheap BBA
If you want native HDMI just go with the WiiU. It's really ridiculous people are claiming a huge difference between all three system and on the other hand often don't even bother what quality the rest of their equipment is (display lag, color accuracy, sound) or if they've set it up correctly. It's funny when you see little differences like those between Wii and GC ouput starting to faint when people start to blindly use default settings (from manufacturers or other users) without even judging if they match their hardware.

Regarding 480p, this is also a rumour I observed numerous times here (and as a result of discussions here?) in other forums as well. You guys really must be kidding if you say 480p equals 1080p input on a 1080p set. Nobody claimed TV sets wouldn't handle 480p correctly but since there is also extra processing involved, which isn't with 1080p, there is a very high chance your signal won't be displayed correctly in comparison to what you would get if you got 1080p in natively.

Oh and before I forget: I don't know what's all that fuss about the Xrgb mini having high input lag. The input lag is, at least on paper, not deniable, but taking into account that most people use customer TV sets which often outweigh that response time anyway makes this claim ridiculous. You should rather start to recommend people to watch out what kind of monitor they're buying instead of scaring them of with something 90% percent of gamers won't even realize.