The Sega Mega Drive/Genesis Thread (NEW)!!!

[Captain]

Hey, did someone mention Cappy and the avengers earlier? Yeah someone did.

I recall the soundtrack is astounding.

Try 06 here among others.

[soprano1]

Hey, did someone mention Cappy and the avengers earlier? Yeah someone did.

I recall the soundtrack is astounding.

Try 06 here among others.

No shit, look at the stellar composers!

[EmperorIng]

A quick question, since the search isn't being all that helpful:

Which Toaplan MegaDrive/Genesis ports were handled in-house by Toaplan? I know Hellfire and Same! Same! Same!/Fire Shark were, but not sure of the others.

[GSK]

Same!, Tatsujin, Daisenpu, Hellfire and Zero Wing (plus Snow Bros!) were all done by Toaplan.

Slap Fight MD was done by MNM/Mindware for Tengen.

Grind Stormer was done within Tengen by the same team that did the JP Marble Madness port.

Kyukyoku Tiger was done by Graphics Research for Treco.

Wardner Special was done by Dragnet for Visco.

[EmperorIng]

Thanks! Wardner is an underrated game in my opinion. It's not a top-tier platformer, but it packs a really mean punch - every single monster, sawblade, and errant bird wants your fat little prince dead! I dislike the environmental hazard overload of stage 2, and haven't gotten much past stage 3 to see the rest of the game, but it offers up some fun tactical jump-n-shoot action. Well, jump-n-lob, more accurately.

[BIL]

Same!, Tatsujin, Daisenpu, Hellfire and Zero Wing (plus Snow Bros!) were all done by Toaplan.

Slap Fight MD was done by MNM/Mindware for Tengen.

Grind Stormer was done within Tengen by the same team that did the JP Marble Madness port.

Kyukyoku Tiger was done by Graphics Research for Treco.

Wardner Special was done by Dragnet for Visco.

Great info - a few of us were wondering about the Toaplan MD ports' personnel, ages back. I was never quite sure about Snow Bros, other than it being a superb port.

[EmperorIng]

I had heard that Hellfire's Genesis port only accurately plays back sound on MD/Genesis Model 1s. Does that mean if I play the the port on my 3/4-motherboard Model 2, the music will play at a sub-PAL snail's pace?

[TransatlanticFoe]

I got a model 1 specifically so Hellfire's music wasn't knackered. I'm PAL anyway and the music on the model 2 is much much slower than your typical "we didn't even bother to speed the music up" PAL conversion. It is just the music though, the game speed is normal.

It's an issue with the hardware change in model 2 I believe, so I guess it's the same for other regions.

Still can't reliably get past the stage 2 boss in this game!

[soprano1]

I got a model 1 specifically so Hellfire's music wasn't knackered. I'm PAL anyway and the music on the model 2 is much much slower than your typical "we didn't even bother to speed the music up" PAL conversion. It is just the music though, the game speed is normal.

It's an issue with the hardware change in model 2 I believe, so I guess it's the same for other regions.

Still can't reliably get past the stage 2 boss in this game!

Does the music play correctly in emulators? Say, Kega Fusion?

[Rob]

Wardner is an underrated game in my opinion.

Probably on the unknown side of things.

I love those obscure, good-decent Genesis games, probably because I don't feel obligated to finish them (and then end up finishing them, because I don't feel obligated).

The buzz saw stage is a memorable one - like a primitive Super Meat Boy.

[EmperorIng]

Wardner's level 2 definitely has the coolest boss in these types of platformers I've seen in some time, just for creep-factor alone - it's almost straight out of John Carpenter's The Thing. Eat your heart out, Irem.

Does the music play correctly in emulators? Say, Kega Fusion?

I can confirm the music does play normally on Kega Fusion.

[BIL]

Love that bit. Check out Kujaku Oh II / Mystic Defender for another instance of horrendous yet functional second boss body-modding. ;3

I wish Wardner Special's colours didn't look so washed-out, though. Lowered detail I understand, but I can't believe the MD couldn't handle a closer approximation of the arcade's musty palette. It'd seem to be an easy fit. Still a great game to have around... it's inherently a bit bent-looking anyway. Too chubby to be menacing, too spidery and slaughterhousey to be cute.

I love all the MD Toaplan ports one way or another. Took me years to warm up to Tiger, but it's now one of my defining MD shooters. It's Snow Bros that impresses me the most, a craftsman's port just like Tengen labelmates Marble Madness and Gauntlet. Slap Fight had the inherent disadvantage of 3:4 aspect, but the original mode makes up for it a thousandfold. (Tengen publishing four superb arcade ports from as many different teams within a year or so is why I always wondered who exactly developed SB, haha)

This reminds me, none of my Tengen carts have melted/exploded yet. Three years baby!

[Damocles]

It's kinda naff, but I've been playing a ton of Crack Down lately, and even managed the 1cc tonight.

A 16-bit action game with a cover system and novel traps on nearly every level. Too bad the stage ideas were never fleshed out. With the instant kills and strict time limit, no time for hanging about. It's weird and unique and I love it.

[GSK]

I wish Wardner Special's colours didn't look so washed-out, though. Lowered detail I understand, but I can't believe the MD couldn't handle a closer approximation of the arcade's musty palette.

You're in luck! Wardner is one of the many games on the list of potential palette hacks by sega-16 user Barone: http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread ... ing-Corner

There are a lot of interesting potential hacks there, including XE-1AP and SCD music support for a few games.

[BIL]

A man of distinguished sensibilities. ¦3 Analogue support for VRDX could make a fantastic game essentially perfect. It's incredible how close Sega got to the sensation of analogue pedals and steering with just the stock pad. Pushing the F1 to the brink of spinout before flooring the gas into Bay Bridge's closing stretch never fails to renew my tolerance for a certain derided plastic mushroom.

Having refreshed my memory, I modify my previous comment on Wardner Special's palette! Rather than washed-out, it's oddly bright. Could actually use toning down. Excellent game though, gets tricky way the hell quicker than I'd recalled. That's a mean slate of precision-platforming deathtraps in stage 2! Much tougher than the PCE port of fellow chubby wizard platform/shooter Legend of Hero Tonma. Coincidentally both characters do a commendable impression of the 1970s Body Snatchers with their attack animations.

6-button Alisia Dragoon has long been a dream hack of mine - I don't really mind pausing to switch familiars, given how methodically they need to be deployed, but it'd certainly be a welcome bit of streamlining. I think the awful lags associated with basic movement - turning, jump landings - are way more pressing, though. Those really hold the game back from its full potential.

[MintyTheCat]

It's kinda naff, but I've been playing a ton of Crack Down lately, and even managed the 1cc tonight.

A 16-bit action game with a cover system and novel traps on nearly every level. Too bad the stage ideas were never fleshed out. With the instant kills and strict time limit, no time for hanging about. It's weird and unique and I love it.

CD is fun but I slightly prefer Gain-Ground - I have no idea why that game is so addictive but you end up loving your little people and every loss is a severe one to me Not about the graphics and all about the gameplay - awesome games both of them.

[MintyTheCat]

6-button Alisia Dragoon has long been a dream hack of mine - I don't really mind pausing to switch familiars, given how methodically they need to be deployed, but it'd certainly be a welcome bit of streamlining. I think the awful lags associated with basic movement - turning, jump landings - are way more pressing, though. Those really hold the game back from its full potential.

I need to get AD - it looks ace. It would not be hardwork to replace the 3B control for 6B if someone fancied doing it.
I think that it is really cool to improve upon MD titles personally; I had been noodling around with raiden Trad and Thunderforce 3 this past year and it becomes almost 'your own game' and less technical and more about design after a while

EDIT: whilst we are on the topic and this is the MD Thread: has anyone got a loose copy of Super SF2 for the MD? I need it for development purposes and provided that the cart works any condition is fine for me, Cheers.

[charlie chong]

got a stock jp md to replace my old asian one with flashy colours and a everdrive so been playing a load of the toaplan vert conversions(can't afford the pcbs anymore with all these crazy noob collecteurs buying up everything) and they are all pretty damn good fun even if not arcade perfect.
vv is pretty amazing to fit on a md cart with a definite proto batsugun/cave feel.finding it hard as nails which is always good
fire shark is probably my favourite so far tho.everything just feels right.

[soprano1]

Wardner's protagonist reminds me of Eric Cartman...

[Captain]

He's nice for a change. Kicks enemy ass, actually looks okay once he gets his fancy robe. Compared to most the other protagonists of the time he's pretty unique for having an obvious flaw, the only similar fatmen you'd see are in fighting games, sometimes.

[BIL]

My favourite thing in Wardner is probably the henchmen hopping around stage 2. They look kinda shaggy and unkempt, but could just as easily be homeless and/or mentally ill. Oh well, whatever, MOW 'EM DOWN KID also intermittent blood splatters on the walls, somebody musta taken a buzzsaw to the grill.

Ben Dover's a chubby oddball protagonist done right imo. For one done wrong see Ghost Manor (TG16):



PFFT GOOD JOB GUYS

Or for a Japanesu example, Power Blazer. It's Rokkuman with hockey hair in sweatpants, a grubby vest and a crash helmet. Western Ahnuld remodel might be generic but at least it's not offensive to disabled people.

Actually hell, Toaplan's own weird mascot thingy sucks too. Looks like a California Raisin's left nut. Pipiru or whatever he's called.

I need to get AD - it looks ace. It would not be hardwork to replace the 3B control for 6B if someone fancied doing it.
I think that it is really cool to improve upon MD titles personally; I had been noodling around with raiden Trad and Thunderforce 3 this past year and it becomes almost 'your own game' and less technical and more about design after a while

It's a good game at the very least - I'd call it great without the laggy controls, which can be ignored on Normal but demand conscious working around on Hard (fast bullets flying constantly, and they hurt both player and familiars). Kujaku Oh II, Jewel Master and even scrappy El Viento are less ambitious but more enjoyable MD wizard sidescrollers, imo. The first two are much cheaper, too. ;3 Not EV though. Must be an anime covergirl thing.

I wonder how stuff like AD and Holy Diver (FC) manage to do so much right, only to gum things up at the most basic of levels, in ways games years older never did. I'll usually stick with original code no matter what, but it's hard to in these cases.

got a stock jp md to replace my old asian one with flashy colours and a everdrive so been playing a load of the toaplan vert conversions(can't afford the pcbs anymore with all these crazy noob collecteurs buying up everything) and they are all pretty damn good fun even if not arcade perfect.
vv is pretty amazing to fit on a md cart with a definite proto batsugun/cave feel.finding it hard as nails which is always good
fire shark is probably my favourite so far tho.everything just feels right.

Definitely finding this myself since getting into the pre-32 bit consoles. There's something really satisfying about a good "arcade imperfect" port; both those that channel the arcade spirit in spite of hardware and "consumer software" considerations, and ones that exploit those issues to create something unique. The best ones tend to do both.

The MD and PC Engine are both great for these. I plan to build a dedicated MAME cab at some point in the future, like Ex_Mosquito's badass setup... but for now I figure the ROMs aren't going anywhere, so I've focused primarily on consoles. Would never be without ports like MD Daimakaimura and PCE Ninja Spirit, regardless. For me they're as essential to their consoles as any of the native productions.

[Captain]

Bydo can go mindfuck themselves.

This is true horror.

That said, Calling Jewel Master more enjoyable than AD makes no sense. It's not nearly as smooth and polished, maybe it's just the weapon combos (I'm also pretty sure it doesn't have an anime girl cover)

Anyway, I'm anticipating the hybrid front translation for a while now. However there hasn't been word about it for quite some time. I really, really hope it wasn't scrapped. At least translator says he's working on Phantasy Star G2 instead.

[BIL]

This is true horror.

¦3

Spoiler

That said, Calling Jewel Master more enjoyable than AD makes no sense. It's not nearly as smooth and polished, maybe it's just the weapon combos (I'm also pretty sure it doesn't have an anime girl cover)

No no: Jewel Master and Kujaku Oh II lack anime girl covers. Unless you count teh naked blonde on the latter's back cover. ;3

As for smoothness, if we're talking how they handle... dear god man have you played Alisia Dragoon. (・｀W´・) It's as smooth as a glass dildo in a garbage disposal! Some dickbrain thought Prince of Persia-style turnaround lag was a great idea in a fast-action sidescroller full of Contra bullets. Another assclown didn't playtest enough to catch the landing stall glitch on medium jumps (not min/max ones, though!). Then a third knobjockey totally okayed 6-1's screen-edge riding (guaranteed bullets in the face from offscreen robots, pending scholarly memorisation).

Actually for all I know it was just one donkey-bothering miscreant, or maybe four - point is AD's mechanically shoddy, much like Holy Diver and Raf World. Cool games with lots of personality, but ho ho hoooly shit! Either you learn very specific workarounds for their issues, or settle for your play looking like hot garbage. And believe me, I still forked out the smackerfords for all three, so I don't say this idly. ¦3

JM is comparatively unambitious but responds sharply, keeps a good pace, and has some interesting customisation re: melee vs ranged attacks. Also fuckin choons. Obviously fundamentals and ambition are ideal, but when forced I'll always choose the former.

[Captain]

¦3

I will have my revenge, mark my words.

Hmm, I always thought the break after medium jumps in AD was intentional, and made players know exactly when to use each kind of jump. I imagine it would be easy to make a hack with it removed though, as it did annoy me.

Aside from that and the issues you mentioned I still think AD is a better game, even with them, here's why.

First of all, the levels are utterly filled with secrets and powerups. The powerups themselves are skippable but damn you feel good when you find them. The level layout itself is masterfully designed compared to the likes of jewel master, which is still good but not on the same level, and the blandness of El Viento. This isn't just a way to extend gameplay, it literally is more gameplay.

Next, you have your pets and weapon power management, which adds mechanics to an otherwise spammy game. See, in JM you might be able to customize a whole bunch of weapons but in the end it's just spamming them over and over, meanwhile AD has that charge attack, and you get to manage your helper at the same time. The bosses are also leagues better than in jewel master, not being a cakewalk but still posing a threat, and they're all so stylish to boot, well except for the second one.

I'm not even going to compare the music. (not saying JM has a bad ost, it's also really good, but you really can't compare it).

Finally, AD naturally looks way better.

[BrianC]

I looked up Ghost Manor. It looks like it was developed by ICOM, the same company known for adventure games like Shadowgate and some of the Sunsoft published Looney Tunes games for SNES. Telling from videos, it seems to have the same slippery control issue as some of their Looney Tunes games. The funny thing is that there is also a completely unrelated game for the Atari 2600 named Ghost Manor.

I'm glad Power Blazer was changed for the US, but we almost got it in its original form. At one point, it was going to be released here under the name "Power Mission".

[charlie chong]

Definitely finding this myself since getting into the pre-32 bit consoles. There's something really satisfying about a good "arcade imperfect" port; both those that channel the arcade spirit in spite of hardware and "consumer software" considerations, and ones that exploit those issues to create something unique. The best ones tend to do both.

The MD and PC Engine are both great for these. I plan to build a dedicated MAME cab at some point in the future, like Ex_Mosquito's badass setup... but for now I figure the ROMs aren't going anywhere, so I've focused primarily on consoles. Would never be without ports like MD Daimakaimura and PCE Ninja Spirit, regardless. For me they're as essential to their consoles as any of the native productions.

yeah for years i was like arcade perfect port/rom/pcb or nothing!! but now i can see the 16 bit console versions can be just as fun in they're own way (or better in the case of games like e-swat and a few others)
i think being burnt out from playing too much samey cave crap for years(anything they released after ketsui just seems so generic with fiddly scoring systems being the only thing that really changes between games) also makes the older stuff more appealing to me now.

[Squire Grooktook]

snip

There's certainly plenty argument that AD is a great game, despite it's flaws. But the topic at hand is which game controls more smoothly. Whether by design or not, AD is definitely stiffer due the aforementioned movement and jumping quirks.

I've always thought of AD as being a "wizard simulation platformer" where stiff and limited movement and control is offset by devastatingly destructive ranged powers, the usages of which must be carefully planned and timed for maximum effectiveness. Still though, it could feel a bit more responsive, even if it was limited (see: Castlevania).

[Captain]

Heh, you may be on to something. I wouldn't call it unresponsive but stiff - it definitely is.

Point - blanking the charge attack though, nothing can replace it.

[BrianC]

Definitely finding this myself since getting into the pre-32 bit consoles. There's something really satisfying about a good "arcade imperfect" port; both those that channel the arcade spirit in spite of hardware and "consumer software" considerations, and ones that exploit those issues to create something unique. The best ones tend to do both.

The MD and PC Engine are both great for these. I plan to build a dedicated MAME cab at some point in the future, like Ex_Mosquito's badass setup... but for now I figure the ROMs aren't going anywhere, so I've focused primarily on consoles. Would never be without ports like MD Daimakaimura and PCE Ninja Spirit, regardless. For me they're as essential to their consoles as any of the native productions.

yeah for years i was like arcade perfect port/rom/pcb or nothing!! but now i can see the 16 bit console versions can be just as fun in they're own way (or better in the case of games like e-swat and a few others)

I have always liked playing arcade ports on older systems, including the 2600. Some fare better than others, but others are very good in their own right. One older port I really like is Jr. Pac-Man on the 2600. Does a nice job of maintaining the arcade version's fast pace and mean ghosts. I actually prefer it over the A800 proto (which seems to be complete, but somewhat unpolished compared to the 2600). A800 version feels a bit slower and is missing the intermissions between levels (2600 is missing them too, but plays part of the music from them at the start of levels). 2600 version also has better sound, despite the A800 having a better sound chip.

Some ports have me a bit torn. Rolling Thunder 2 looks garish in spots and is lacking some of the scaling from the arcade, but adds extra levels with bosses and plays extremely well.

[BIL]

I will have my revenge, mark my words.

Still though, it could feel a bit more responsive, even if it was limited (see: Castlevania).

Exactly. "Punishingly strict" and "instantly responsive" aren't mutually exclusive! Imagine duelling CV1's Dracula with AD's turn-around lag. :[

Heh, you may be on to something. I wouldn't call it unresponsive but stiff - it definitely is.

To be fair to AD, it's only on Hard that the laggy controls really become an issue. Normal's lower bullet speed, bullet count and enemy HP make calculatedly blasting through bottlenecks much more viable, where Hard will leave you stranded with no charge and tons of flak+live enemies bouncing about.

Normal's enemy attributes with Hard's nastier damage scale would've been ideal. As it is, Normal's fun but overly forgiving, while Hard's an annoying clusterfuck requiring painstaking workarounds.

Point - blanking the charge attack though, nothing can replace it.

Cockslapping bosses across the face with the flamey option is my favourite. ¦3