Why won't anyone RGB mod an NTSC Gamecube?

[atheistgod1999]

Why hasn't anyone done this yet? It has to still generate RGB internally, they wouldn't a change the GPU like that for the PAL verison. Why don't people just wire the RGB pins to the analog port on the back of the Gamecube? I don't understand why this is something that is so hard people instead have to RGB mod the >$300 component cables, basically defeating the whole purpose. Can some console modder explain why NTSC Gamecubes can't be RGB modded?

[kel]

You would have to replace the DAC to get RGB because the DAC in the NTSC Gamecube only outputs Composite and S-Video. Not quite as easy as it sounds to be honest though. It can be done but it would be far easier to import a PAL Gamecube and region mod it instead.

[Guspaz]

It generates RGB internally in the digital domain, and doesn't have any hardware to do the decoding and analog conversion of the RGB information. Modding the gamecube for RGB would require tapping the digital lines and doing that decoding/conversion... which is exactly what the existing RGB GameCube mod (the GCVideo-Lite) does.

TL;DR: There is an RGB mod that does exactly what you want.

[austin532]

Plus with the recent news about the HDMI mod, it's going to be harder to find someone who wants to RGB mod a GC.

[atheistgod1999]

It generates RGB internally in the digital domain, and doesn't have any hardware to do the decoding and analog conversion of the RGB information. Modding the gamecube for RGB would require tapping the digital lines and doing that decoding/conversion... which is exactly what the existing RGB GameCube mod (the GCVideo-Lite) does.

TL;DR: There is an RGB mod that does exactly what you want.

So how does it encode the composite and s-video if it has no decoding hardware?

[Guspaz]

It has hardware to decode the digital RGB signal into analog composite and s-video. It does not have the hardware to decode the digital RGB signal to analog RGB.

That's what the GCVideo mod does. GCVideo-DVI adds the hardware to convert the digital RGB signal into a DVI signal (also RGB but not the same signalling) and GCVideo-Lite adds the hardware to convert the digital RGB signal into an analog RGB signal.

The parts/designs to build these mods are freely available, but nobody really seems to be building it yet: it seems like modders are currently focused on the UltraHDMI (N64) mod, or perhaps they're waiting for GCVideo to be more mature (although GCVideo-Lite hasn't been updated in a year and is difficult to build).

[mickcris]

megalomaniac is hopefully going to release his board soon

https://twitter.com/BadAssConsoles/stat ... 5849887744

I think he was working on the lite but not sure he is doing both. here's a picture from last year that appears to be the lite

https://twitter.com/BadAssConsoles/stat ... 7390903296

[bobrocks95]

To add some info that people may find useful...

The digital output of the Gamecube isn't YCbCr or any other standard output. This is what took so long for the GC-Video HDMI mod, which partly reverse-engineers the MX chip in the component cable, but instead of doing the DAC conversion, converts it to a standard HDMI/DVI signal to output directly in a digital format.

In a similar vein, the DAC inside the Gamecube is likely a custom component (not 100% sure on this), but the DAC definitely differs between a PAL Gamecube and an NTSC one, because as OP said, a mod would have been figured out a LONG time ago given the cost of component cables. Maybe there's another reason but that's my best guess- it's certainly not from lack of trying. People at one point imported leftover MX chips from manufacturers in China and recreated the circuit inside the component cable, to the point where all remaining MX chips dried up.

Maybe you can swap the NTSC DAC with a PAL one, but that would require a PAL Gamecube, and you should just region mod the PAL GC at that point instead. Pure conjecture there.

EDIT: Also, megalomaniac isn't the only one making boards, some other people on gc-forever have made their own versions, though I wouldn't call any of them ideal from the last time I looked. Been a while though and I've been waiting on mega's board anyway (though it keeps getting pushed back in favor the the N64 HDMI mod as Guspaz said).

[cfx]

.

[atheistgod1999]

WAIT. I GOT AN IDEA. Why not mod the Gamecube for SDI?

[Guspaz]

Because it would be much harder to convert to SDI (it's serial, much higher clockspeed required), nobody has any devices that support it (professional connection that does not exist in the consumer world), and it doesn't support 480p?

Even people around here would need to buy an SDI option card for their PVM or convert it to HDMI, so it makes more sense to just convert to HDMI (or rather DVI) in the first place.

[antron]

I've been told that there will never be a direct GC to HDMI external cable available. What's missing that you have to get from inside?

[Guspaz]

Nothing, the problem is that sourcing the GameCube digital connector is very difficult. The connector would require two stacked PCBs with a gap between them since the socket uses a centre insulator with conductors on the outside of it.

Somebody made a CG mockup of a connector with the intent of, I suppose, printing it, and somebody did hack together a custom one from scratch using some sort of spring-loaded things, but nobody has really figured out a good mass-production approach.

As such, everybody is focused on internal mods. There's no major roadblock to doing HDMI either internally (which people have already done) or externally via an adapter cable (apart from the connector).

Of course, if you're doing an RGB mod, you might as well wire up the analog RGB outputs to the multi AV connector and just use standard Nintendo RGB cables.

[antron]

Thanks for explaining that. So there is hope.

[bobrocks95]

If your concern is lack of modding skills, I'm pretty sure the megalomaniac board releasing soon (?) will be like his MEGA Gamecube drive boards- you lay the board directly over the pins on the motherboard and solder the board on like the easier mod chips for older consoles.

If you just would prefer not to cut any holes in your case/want the solution to be portable then I dunno; seems like Mega's board is the only thing in active development, though I haven't been to the gc-forever forums in a while. Nobody seemed to make a big push for a cable solution from what I saw.

[BuckoA51]

With the basic PlutoII based HDMI mod we've been doing you can output 240p, 480i either direct or line-doubled or 480p so you could use a HDMI to VGA converter, kind of massively overkill for what you're asking for though.

[bobrocks95]

I plan to use an HDMI to component adapter when the board is released so I can play the GBI software on my CRT. People who don't plan to use their Gamecube with a digital display may still find it more convenient to region-mod a PAL console.

[darcagn]

I plan to use an HDMI to component adapter when the board is released so I can play the GBI software on my CRT. People who don't plan to use their Gamecube with a digital display may still find it more convenient to region-mod a PAL console.

It's just the standard GCVideo-DVI firmware right? If so, it doesn't work with HDMI-to-component adapters. At least, it didn't work with mine. The picture had a screwed up appearance. http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p1125057

Maybe another one will work, if so, let us know so I can get it

[bobrocks95]

It's just the standard GCVideo-DVI firmware right? If so, it doesn't work with HDMI-to-component adapters. At least, it didn't work with mine. The picture had a screwed up appearance. http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p1125057

Maybe another one will work, if so, let us know so I can get it

Hmm, have you tried it with the most recent update? It fixed a very minor video problem some people had and might fix that too.

Can you post an updated Amazon link too? The one in your old post is dead- I'll give a different one a try I suppose.

[darcagn]

It's just the standard GCVideo-DVI firmware right? If so, it doesn't work with HDMI-to-component adapters. At least, it didn't work with mine. The picture had a screwed up appearance. http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p1125057

Maybe another one will work, if so, let us know so I can get it

Hmm, have you tried it with the most recent update? It fixed a very minor video problem some people had and might fix that too.

Can you post an updated Amazon link too? The one in your old post is dead- I'll give a different one a try I suppose.

I haven't tried it with the latest update yet. Haven't gotten around to opening the GC so I can update it.

I tried looking up a new link on Amazon but it doesn't seem like they have it anymore. It was the Kanex Pro HDMI to Component converter. They have the reverse product though (Kanex Pro Component to HDMI converter).

[bobrocks95]

I guess I'll definitely try a different brand then haha. I'll poke around some other forums first too, maybe somebody is already using one they're happy with.

[Guspaz]

Why not just use the GCVideo-Lite board, which spits out RGB, and then use an RGB to component adapter? Such adapters are like $30 when you're talking about just the PCB.

[bobrocks95]

I'd do that if I wanted to mod 2 Gamecubes, leaving one always hooked up to a CRT. I'm fine switching one back and forth between a CRT and a digital display though, and RGB of course wouldn't allow for 480p.

Anyone looking for a purely 240p cube for Gameboy games and I guess some homebrew or emulation collections should go with GC-Video Lite, but otherwise I'd say it's been superseded by the DVI version.

[Guspaz]

I'm biased, GBI is literally the only reason I bought a GameCube

[BuckoA51]

Well has to be said the Gameboy player is far from perfect, it's better with the Game Boy Interface homebrew but even so...I cannot lie, I usually prefer an emulator for the stutter-free experience.

[Unseen]

Why not just use the GCVideo-Lite board, which spits out RGB, and then use an RGB to component adapter? Such adapters are like $30 when you're talking about just the PCB.

Why would you use an external RGB-to-component adapter if you can just tell GCVideo-Lite to output component video? Just because there is an RGB jumper on the board doesn't mean you have to use it. ;)

[darcagn]

Why not just use the GCVideo-Lite board, which spits out RGB, and then use an RGB to component adapter? Such adapters are like $30 when you're talking about just the PCB.

That would be nice if all you needed was the PCB I'm not too enthusiastic about soldering all of those tiny SMD components onto a tiny crowded board.

It's way easier to buy a preassembled HDMI board from KNJN. If the GCVideo-Lite board were available preassembled I would buy one in a heartbeat and put the digital connector back into my GameCube.

[bobrocks95]

Well has to be said the Gameboy player is far from perfect, it's better with the Game Boy Interface homebrew but even so...I cannot lie, I usually prefer an emulator for the stutter-free experience.

Does the ULL version still give you stutter?

[Thomago]

Does the ULL version still give you stutter?

It gives tearing instead of stutter

[bobrocks95]

I don't think the author was able to sort that out either, right? It doesn't tear for me, but IIRC is just awful for others. Of course, ULL is in black-and-white through S-Video so I use the low-lag version anyway.