XRGB-mini Framemeister

[Guspaz]

You don't believe what to be true? You mostly repeated what I said.

[elmalloc]

I don't believe the 8350 to be 33ms. Several data points online have it at 18.5ms, ProjectorCentral has it at 33ms. When I bought it originally it was due to 1 frame lag. Nowadays I think the Optoma GameTime and BenQ projectors meant for gaming still can't keep up, most modern TVs can't either although displaylag.com shows a few newer sony's are in the 1 frame lag range.

I didn't really repeat what you said, just gave more information. The initial 3000 series 2D quality is not as good as the 8350/8345, and it's 3D was just junk/useless. They've since improved the 3D from what I hear.

[Guspaz]

One frame or two, it's not particularly laggy as a projector, but lower would be nice: I can feel a small difference in some games moving to the CRT, but only in games that are really sensitive to latency, like Super R-Type.

In any case, my core point is not so much regarding the latency of the 8345/8350, but the latency increase that would be required to move to a newer projector. My 8345 is still a great 1080p projector, and while a new bulb may be required in a year or two (having had it for quite a while now). It just frustrates me that there doesn't seem to be any upgrade path on the horizon.

[BuckoA51]

Long shot but... tried to pass through/process PC desktop at both 1080p and 720p through the mini (as I wanted to capture PC footage and it's just conveniently wired for that), but although the lights come on on the device to show it's synced, all I get is a blue screen. Any ideas? (can't imagine many people are running a PC through one of these!) HDCP is confirmed off, tried it at 50 and 60hz, TV and DVDO edge both show the PC with no problem.

[Guspaz]

Things to check:

HDMI vs DVI profile resolution/refresh rate (1080p59.94 versus 1080p60, as well as the signalling differences)
RGB vs YPbPr colour space
Full vs limited RGB range
8bbp vs 10/12bpp

These settings should be available in the nVidia control panel, presumably ATI lets you select them too.

[BuckoA51]

All sound advice and all checked, though even if some of those are set wrong I'd expect some kind of picture.

My HDMI N64 is due tomorrow that means shifting some gear to get to the HDMI switch anyway, so I'll have a look at the cabling. PCs hooked into the same 8x8 matrix as everything else though, and the PC displays direct to my TV and on the Edge, and every other device displays on the Mini....

[axlblazeadam]

Anyone have any idea why S-video with all my Genesis models look like this through the XRGB mini? It's as if the mini isn't terminating the chroma signal:



I then put a 75 to ground on the chroma pin and it was still way off:



No idea why this is. The picture looks fine straight to my TV's with S-video and even directly through the capture card:



That's basically what it looks like on my TV's as well.

What's up with the XRGB mini acting goofy with S-video?

Why use S-video if it's easy to use the RGB output of your Genesis? I've played all SoR series for Genesis and Megadrive with the RGB cables through the Framemeister and they look amazing with RGB!

[Pasky]

Why use S-video if it's easy to use the RGB output of your Genesis? I've played all SoR series for Genesis and Megadrive with the RGB cables through the Framemeister and they look amazing with RGB!

This totally solved the issue, thanks!

[elmalloc]

One frame or two, it's not particularly laggy as a projector, but lower would be nice: I can feel a small difference in some games moving to the CRT, but only in games that are really sensitive to latency, like Super R-Type.

In any case, my core point is not so much regarding the latency of the 8345/8350, but the latency increase that would be required to move to a newer projector. My 8345 is still a great 1080p projector, and while a new bulb may be required in a year or two (having had it for quite a while now). It just frustrates me that there doesn't seem to be any upgrade path on the horizon.

I believe the BenQ W1070 and 1080ST (short throw) both are around 24ms and are shorter in the tooth than our projectors, in case you'd like to try them. They are both relatively inexpensive as well.

I think there is a Sony in the $2500 range that also has 24ms (Sony VPL-HW40ES). Some of Sony's newer TVs have low input lag on displaylag.com as well (18ms+).

[FBX]

Why use S-video if it's easy to use the RGB output of your Genesis? I've played all SoR series for Genesis and Megadrive with the RGB cables through the Framemeister and they look amazing with RGB!

This totally solved the issue, thanks!

I had to do the jail bar fix on mine (CXA interference) to get RGB to look good, but after I did, it looks absolutely perfect.

[BuckoA51]

Updating the firmware solved my issues with the PC (either that or just resetting a bunch of settings anyway).

Edit - Looks like I have to do a settings reset every time I want it to work with my PC. This thing sure has a lot of bugs (a statement said about every scaler ever).

[Braca862]

All sound advice and all checked, though even if some of those are set wrong I'd expect some kind of picture.

My HDMI N64 is due tomorrow that means shifting some gear to get to the HDMI switch anyway, so I'll have a look at the cabling. PCs hooked into the same 8x8 matrix as everything else though, and the PC displays direct to my TV and on the Edge, and every other device displays on the Mini....

Where did you get an HDMI modded N64?

[BuckoA51]

From my website That's the nice thing about running my store, I get to be first in line

If you want in on the waiting list PM me or contact me through my website, we're good to go with them, just Marshall is out of stock of the actual mod boards.

[hipstir]

FBX,

I am seeing a strange problem with your xbox progressive widescan and 4/3 profiles. When I enable scanlines I see either one or two solid white lines depending on the profile selected. This does not happen with the dreamcast profile and everything looks proper but I'm unable to apply that profile to a component input for some reason. Any thoughts on what might be wrong? I've attached two pictures for you to see. Thanks!

PS. The images are very large.

Spoiler

Spoiler

[FBX]

Are you trying to use those profiles on a wii? Because that's what it looks like from those pics. Integer scaling is very picky on the Framemeister when it comes to scanlines, so if you try to use one console's profile on another, the scanlines may show fragmentation even when both consoles have the same resolution. If these lines show up on an actual xbox, that means I'll have to go back and redesign them as I don't recall worrying about scanlines for 480p (not to mention that 480p mode is broken on the Framemeister anyway due to false contouring).

[hipstir]

Are you trying to use those profiles on a wii? Because that's what it looks like from those pics. Integer scaling is very picky on the Framemeister when it comes to scanlines, so if you try to use one console's profile on another, the scanlines may show fragmentation even when both consoles have the same resolution. If these lines show up on an actual xbox, that means I'll have to go back and redesign them as I don't recall worrying about scanlines for 480p (not to mention that 480p mode is broken on the Framemeister anyway due to false contouring).

I also see the same issue on my xbox original both via component and using a x2rgb+ with csync enabled. I can take a picture if it helps.

Secondly would you consider creating profiles for 480p 3x resolution? I wonder if the image could take up the entire screen vertically, knowing that we loose 180 pixels both at the top and bottom for a total of 360 scaled pixels lost.

[FBX]

I'll look into it and make corrections if I get the scanline issue to show up.

On the 3x scale, you'd be losing 60 pixels from the top and 60 from the bottom. Are you sure you want that? I assume useful for some sort of emulation mode of the wii?

Anyway, I'll post an update asap (edit: forgot my xbox is on loan to my brother. I won't be able to get to this until Monday).

[hipstir]

I just figured it would be nice to have a profile where the entire vertical portion of the screen could be used, similiar to the sega 5x profiles and still remain pixel perfect.

On a side note, profiles created with both interlaced and progressive settings, are the scaling factors the same to remain pixel perfect? Reason I ask is since the xrgb is limited in displaying all profiles, would switching filters via the remote accomplish the same result without tweaking any settings via the menu? This way I would only store the progressive profiles and when playing an interlaced gamei would then use the remote to switch between filters dynamically.

[rayik]

Bought a framemiester xrgb mini. Waiting for it and cables to be delivered. Went all euro scart cables (including euro scart to mini).

Read the entire 298 page thread over the last 1 1/2 weeks. Very interesting and informative reading. Looking forward to trying out FBX’s profiles.

I have some consoles without FBX profiles: Magnavox Odyssey 2 ( soon to be composite video modded), Atari 5200 (s-video modded), Turbografx 16 with CD unit (US) (soon to be rgb modded), Atari Jaguar (rgb cable on the way) and Sega Saturn (rgb cable coming) . In the weeks (and maybe months) ahead, I’ll post settings that work for me on those systems.

[elmalloc]

Hi,

I finally got my Framemeister hooked up to my SNES. I'm using a EUROSCART +CSYNC cable from an SNES Mini.

I'm using the pixel purists 5x SNES profile connected to a Panasonic 60ST50 plasma TV.

First thing, every 10 minutes or so the screen will start flickering very badly. I'm playing Super Mario World and TMNT4. My first thought was to play with the SYNC_LEVEL, but I'm not sure yet as I'm still a newbie to the Framemeister.

Has anyone experienced this before or could it point to a faulty SNES/Cable/Framemeister/TV?

Thanks!

[squall139]

Hello,

I just had mini xrgb to play one ps, ps2, xbox, gamecube largely. I can not for the moment have the same rendering as "CRT TV because I could try with a friend. On my mini xrgb (in RGB and output 720p @ 60) lines are coarser (large) as cathodic tv. by default, scanlines are "80" (I can not change), but there may be other parameters to be modified to have made "original" like on tv cathodic (crt). i'm sorry for bad english. not easy to explain the situation. I know it's possible to use "profils", but i don't know how it works on xrgb mini (firmware is 2.0 for information, the last i think).

My settings are wrongs i guess. not easy for a beginner.

thanks in advance, good game.

[axlblazeadam]

Hi,

I finally got my Framemeister hooked up to my SNES. I'm using a EUROSCART +CSYNC cable from an SNES Mini.

I'm using the pixel purists 5x SNES profile connected to a Panasonic 60ST50 plasma TV.

First thing, every 10 minutes or so the screen will start flickering very badly. I'm playing Super Mario World and TMNT4. My first thought was to play with the SYNC_LEVEL, but I'm not sure yet as I'm still a newbie to the Framemeister.

Has anyone experienced this before or could it point to a faulty SNES/Cable/Framemeister/TV?

Thanks!

What do you exactly mean with flickering? Screen going black and back to the image real quick?

[elmalloc]

Hi,

I finally got my Framemeister hooked up to my SNES. I'm using a EUROSCART +CSYNC cable from an SNES Mini.

I'm using the pixel purists 5x SNES profile connected to a Panasonic 60ST50 plasma TV.

First thing, every 10 minutes or so the screen will start flickering very badly. I'm playing Super Mario World and TMNT4. My first thought was to play with the SYNC_LEVEL, but I'm not sure yet as I'm still a newbie to the Framemeister.

Has anyone experienced this before or could it point to a faulty SNES/Cable/Framemeister/TV?

Thanks!

What do you exactly mean with flickering? Screen going black and back to the image real quick?

Yes, very fast. Let's say it's 30 times a second.

So I played with the SYNC_LEVEL. I tried the default 9, 15, 0, and 25. Around 25 or 26 it would immediately begin to flicker. The other settings, it would do that after 10-15 minutes and then fix itself after 10 seconds. I'm currently on SYNC_LEVEL 20 and about 30 minutes of super mario world I didn't have any issues. Initially i used SMW and after a couple minutes it started to flicker, so I went to TMNT4.

Is this normal for the SNES MINI, or is my ST50 Plasma acting up? Or are the retro console cables fubar? It this type of response game dependent (TMNT4 seemed to have problems as I was testing with it most of the time), or console dependent?

Thanks!

[axlblazeadam]

Hi,

I finally got my Framemeister hooked up to my SNES. I'm using a EUROSCART +CSYNC cable from an SNES Mini.

I'm using the pixel purists 5x SNES profile connected to a Panasonic 60ST50 plasma TV.

First thing, every 10 minutes or so the screen will start flickering very badly. I'm playing Super Mario World and TMNT4. My first thought was to play with the SYNC_LEVEL, but I'm not sure yet as I'm still a newbie to the Framemeister.

Has anyone experienced this before or could it point to a faulty SNES/Cable/Framemeister/TV?

Thanks!

What do you exactly mean with flickering? Screen going black and back to the image real quick?

Yes, very fast. Let's say it's 30 times a second.

So I played with the SYNC_LEVEL. I tried the default 9, 15, 0, and 25. Around 25 or 26 it would immediately begin to flicker. The other settings, it would do that after 10-15 minutes and then fix itself after 10 seconds. I'm currently on SYNC_LEVEL 20 and about 30 minutes of super mario world I didn't have any issues. Initially i used SMW and after a couple minutes it started to flicker, so I went to TMNT4.

Is this normal for the SNES MINI, or is my ST50 Plasma acting up? Or are the retro console cables fubar? It this type of response game dependent (TMNT4 seemed to have problems as I was testing with it most of the time), or console dependent?

Thanks!

Mmm, don't think it can be the sync level in this case (or the Framemeister for that matter). I would backtrack this problem by hooking it up to another TV first. Or do you have any other console to test through the Frameister on this TV?

[axlblazeadam]

Bought a framemiester xrgb mini. Waiting for it and cables to be delivered. Went all euro scart cables (including euro scart to mini).

Read the entire 298 page thread over the last 1 1/2 weeks. Very interesting and informative reading. Looking forward to trying out FBX’s profiles.

I have some consoles without FBX profiles: Magnavox Odyssey 2 ( soon to be composite video modded), Atari 5200 (s-video modded), Turbografx 16 with CD unit (US) (soon to be rgb modded), Atari Jaguar (rgb cable on the way) and Sega Saturn (rgb cable coming) . In the weeks (and maybe months) ahead, I’ll post settings that work for me on those systems.

Good luck with Saturn, it's a nightmare to get that one right. Here are my "standard" settings for most PAL games.

H_POS 63
V_POS 35
H_WIDTH 17
V_WIDTH 32
H_SCALER 4
V_SCALER 7
ZOOMSIZE 89
ZOOM H_POS 50
ZOOM V_POS 45
ZOOM WIDTH 50
ZOOM OVERSCAN 100

Can look up my NTSC settings too if you need.

[rayik]

Bought a framemiester xrgb mini. Waiting for it and cables to be delivered. Went all euro scart cables (including euro scart to mini).

Read the entire 298 page thread over the last 1 1/2 weeks. Very interesting and informative reading. Looking forward to trying out FBX’s profiles.

I have some consoles without FBX profiles: Magnavox Odyssey 2 ( soon to be composite video modded), Atari 5200 (s-video modded), Turbografx 16 with CD unit (US) (soon to be rgb modded), Atari Jaguar (rgb cable on the way) and Sega Saturn (rgb cable coming) . In the weeks (and maybe months) ahead, I’ll post settings that work for me on those systems.

Good luck with Saturn, it's a nightmare to get that one right. Here are my "standard" settings for most PAL games.

H_POS 63
V_POS 35
H_WIDTH 17
V_WIDTH 32
H_SCALER 4
V_SCALER 7
ZOOMSIZE 89
ZOOM H_POS 50
ZOOM V_POS 45
ZOOM WIDTH 50
ZOOM OVERSCAN 100

Can look up my NTSC settings too if you need.

Would appreciate the NTSC settings (In US). Thanks.

[Shuco13]

Regarding SYNC_LEVEL: It's highly different from input to input. Getting it right needs testing different consoles with various games and taking the level where you don't get any hicups.

[amaradona]

Hi,

I finally got my Framemeister hooked up to my SNES. I'm using a EUROSCART +CSYNC cable from an SNES Mini.

I'm using the pixel purists 5x SNES profile connected to a Panasonic 60ST50 plasma TV.

First thing, every 10 minutes or so the screen will start flickering very badly. I'm playing Super Mario World and TMNT4. My first thought was to play with the SYNC_LEVEL, but I'm not sure yet as I'm still a newbie to the Framemeister.

Has anyone experienced this before or could it point to a faulty SNES/Cable/Framemeister/TV?

Thanks!

What do you exactly mean with flickering? Screen going black and back to the image real quick?

Yes, very fast. Let's say it's 30 times a second.

So I played with the SYNC_LEVEL. I tried the default 9, 15, 0, and 25. Around 25 or 26 it would immediately begin to flicker. The other settings, it would do that after 10-15 minutes and then fix itself after 10 seconds. I'm currently on SYNC_LEVEL 20 and about 30 minutes of super mario world I didn't have any issues. Initially i used SMW and after a couple minutes it started to flicker, so I went to TMNT4.

Is this normal for the SNES MINI, or is my ST50 Plasma acting up? Or are the retro console cables fubar? It this type of response game dependent (TMNT4 seemed to have problems as I was testing with it most of the time), or console dependent?

Thanks!

Got the same issue with a super famicom ,the 55st50 and the c sync cable.
I am using now a "normal" scart cable and do not have issue any more.
No idea why thou.

[Das Muel]

Does anybody else get jailbars with RGB output from a Sega Saturn? It only seems to affect some of the Saturn's output resolution modes (I'm using a JAP White model 2 Saturn, RGB Scart, composite video as sync). The problem was quite easy to correct with an XPC-4, but the Framemeister lacks some of the XPC-4's manual adjustment options.

[jarop]

Hi all
I've been banging my head against the wall trying to solve what is probably a really basic issue with my XRGB-mini. I went from running my mini straight from HDMI out -> TV to running it through a 4x2 splitter, and through that 4x2 splitter I am no longer getting any output. Other outputs I've tried through said splitter are a Wii U and a PS3. As expected, the Wii U works fine through the splitter and the PS3 needs a 2x1 splitter to strip the HDCP first before it works. My issue is that for some reason the XRGB needs to go through the 2x1 splitter to get any signal out through the 4x2 splitter. I'm on v2.02 and according to "full status" HDCP is set to on and I'm assuming that has something to do with it. I've been looking at this (http://www.micomsoft.co.jp/XRGB-mini_Ver200_OSD_E.pdf) OSD chart and I cannot for the life of me work out how to toggle HDCP off, if that's even the problem to begin with.

Can anybody shed some light on this issue? Apologies if it's something basic. I've been hacking away at it for a couple of weeks with no luck