Nes rgb with composite colors?

[leonk]

I was trying to see what is off with those pictures, and I finally figured it out! You don't have vertical scan lines!

On my Sony PVM as well as the 29" CRT on my Sega New Astro City arcade, I can see the square pixels that make up the picture. With the XRGB mini (and NES HDMI) you can tell that they're "fake".

The colors do look nice though.

[bobrocks95]

You mean the vertical lines of the aperture grille, correct? It does lend a certain quality to the image; I've seen people speculate that 4K displays may be able to more accurately represent CRT "pixel" structure

[Voultar]

I was trying to see what is off with those pictures, and I finally figured it out! You don't have vertical scan lines!

On my Sony PVM as well as the 29" CRT on my Sega New Astro City arcade, I can see the square pixels that make up the picture. With the XRGB mini (and NES HDMI) you can tell that they're "fake".

The colors do look nice though.

Vertical scanlines? Raster lines aren't vertical, they sweep horizontally, drawn west to east.. Are you talking about the dot-pitch/phosphor grill?

[Guspaz]

He's talking about the aperture grille, but CRTs don't have pixels, since it's an analog beam sweeping left to right, changing in intensity as quickly as the signal tells it to (and as fast as the monitor can). One "pixel" from the source device is going to hit a bunch of red/green/blue phosphors, they're not lined up with subpixels like on a digital display.

[FBX]

That is the playchoice 10 palette.

You know what? Looking at it again, I actually think it looks perfect.

Try it yourself. You may not like it as much in person than with photos from a screen. Most find it way over the top and nothing like the home console experience.

[leonk]

Try it yourself. You may not like it as much in person than with photos from a screen. Most find it way over the top and nothing like the home console experience.

I find all games to be too saturated / yellow with PC10 palette.

[cfx]

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[The_Atomik_Punk!]

That is the playchoice 10 palette.

You know what? Looking at it again, I actually think it looks perfect.

Try it yourself. You may not like it as much in person than with photos from a screen. Most find it way over the top and nothing like the home console experience.

I genuinely thought Skips was trying to pull everyone's leg, because his photos look nothing like the PC10 colours (if they really are, your camera really does suck dude ). The disparity between FBX's unsaturated palette and PC10 is like night and day; one's really low key and slightly muted, the other is vibrant as hell (a.k.a the yellow piss machine):

[Guspaz]

It's not hard to accurately simulate the look of a still image on a CRT using a modern display with a very high pixel density. If the individual pixels are more densely packed than the human eye can distinguish, then any two dimensional image can be reproduced. The problem is doing this without a ton of latency, and what happens when you start to think about motion rather than a still image. OLEDs can have incredibly low response times (a hundredth of a millisecond), so a very high density OLED display with a high refresh rate should be able to do a credible simulation of a CRT, although the flicker might not be quite right. It'd be close enough, though.

Given that an OLED display could theoretically be updated a hundred thousand times a second (because of the low response time), you could actually simulate the electron beam on a sub-scanline basis, although the bandwidth required to do that would be absurd. Oh well, give it a few decades.

[Skips]

You guys are thinking way to hard into this. I was just posting pictures of the two palettes I liked the most which is PC 10 and the FBX unsaturated palettes. Was not really comparing them or anything.

*EDIT* The colors in your PC10 screens are a bit over saturated. I am not sure what you are capturing it with but not even on the various BVM's I have owned was the red ever THAT saturated when using the PC10. Close to that but not that bad.

[The_Atomik_Punk!]

You guys are thinking way to hard into this. I was just posting pictures of the two palettes I liked the most which is PC 10 and the FBX unsaturated palettes. Was not really comparing them or anything.

*EDIT* The colors in your PC10 screens are a bit over saturated. I am not sure what you are capturing it with but not even on the various BVM's I have owned was the red ever THAT saturated when using the PC10. Close to that but not that bad.

I posted that comparison for the benefit of atheistgod1999, whose the OP and was initially inquring to the NES RGB kit colour palettes. I just wanted him to understand, after saying that your pics look perfect, that that's not how the PC10 palete would look in person if he bought a kit to install.

Those pics I posted are direct screen grabs from Nestopia. I don't own a capture card, but the PC10 palette looks exactly like those images, maybe slightly less saturated, but basically that for me ( 36' Sony Trinitron through Component w/ CVS287).

[FBX]

I'm hoping at some point down the road I can make some sort of payment/donation to Tim for a new POF file using the YUV correction palette I settled on. I'm tapped right now, but hoping down the road I can when I've built some savings back up. This and Framemeister projects have depleted my 'petty cash' so to speak. On top of all that, I've already got several requests for PSP profiles.

[The_Atomik_Punk!]

I'm hoping at some point down the road I can make some sort of payment/donation to Tim for a new POF file using the YUV correction palette I settled on. I'm tapped right now, but hoping down the road I can when I've built some savings back up. This and Framemeister projects have depleted my 'petty cash' so to speak. On top of all that, I've already got several requests for PSP profiles.

Dude, I would totally kick some bucks Tim's way for all of his exceptional work; dang I'd also contribute to a Patreon or something setup for your efforts as well- you've definitely spent a lot of coin on this endeavor, whereas the rest of us are mere beneficiaries of your work (albeit VERY appreciative!).

[Skips]

I forgot to post this the other day. One of the things I love about the FBX unsaturated palette is how good looking it is with games like Mega Man

[The_Atomik_Punk!]

Shit, FBX's unsaturated palette looks great with everything (well, except for that Framemeister Greenish Yellows issue demonstrated in Contra and Metroid). Here's a great Mega Man 2 pic and one from Faxanadu:



Check out that awesome depth of field shading achieved in the background of Heatman's stage, and that wicked orange colour too. All other palettes I've tried wash out that depth of field effect because they're too darn vibrant (and also look weird and pinkish). Oh, and why not a shot of Faxanadu, because it's dark moody palette looks even better with FBX's DC Final Unsaturated.

[FinalBaton]

Well i'm not gonna lie : I love the colors on those two screenshots, Atomic_Punk

Would you mind uploading a pic of Castlevania 1 and Castlevania 3 with the same palette?

[The_Atomik_Punk!]

Well i'm not gonna lie : I love the colors on those two screenshots, Atomic_Punk

Would you mind uploading a pic of Castlevania 1 and Castlevania 3 with the same palette?

My man, I'm not using a capture card from real hardware: I'm pulling these screen grabs directly from the emulator Nestopia. From there, you can load a custom palette (like FBX's DC Final Unsaturated) to try out any game you want to see how it looks. It's really straightforward; PM me if you have any troubles, as you can then contrast/compare all of your favourite games with any palette before deciding on a firmware to flash.

[FBX]

Fudoh awesomely donated money for paying Tim to do one last firmware version for us. I requested the following order of palettes:


Playchoice 10 >>> YUV Corrected (as per my updated http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html) >>> Framemeister Unsaturated (green pull manually corrected)


I've sent the request to Tim as well as letting him know of the donation. Crossing fingers!

Update:

I've sent Tim the package of the finalized palettes to be used:

http://www.firebrandx.com/downloads/fin ... ettes2.zip

You guys should check it out as well, since the Unsaturated palette is now updated with the green pull manually corrected.

[FBX]

Sorry for the double post, but I have to admit the unsaturated palette with the manual corrections definitely gets back into my good graces. Though not part of the corrected colors, check out the difference on the Contra guys compared to the YUV palette:



Note how the shadow tones on the skin look more natural, while the YUV palette they look almost glowing.

[The_Atomik_Punk!]

Original FBX Unsaturated palette (with green pull) on left, corrected on right:









That's right, this is now the greatest NES RGB palette EVER MADE

[FBX]

Dammit! I put the wrong YUV palette in that zip file I linked to. Here's the correct collection of palettes:

http://www.firebrandx.com/downloads/fin ... ettes2.zip


And not to worry about the unsaturated palette, it's the correct version in either package. I just accidentally put an old YUV palette I made in there by mistake.

[Arasoi]

.

[Taiyaki]

This is so exciting. So for those who already have an NES RGB installed what's the process to update the palettes with FBX's palette? Will it require specific hardware to update the firmware or does it require installing an additional part?

[FBX]

This is so exciting. So for those who already have an NES RGB installed what's the process to update the palettes with FBX's palette? Will it require specific hardware to update the firmware or does it require installing an additional part?

I'm waiting to hear back from Tim as I have funds to pay him for his time on this, but we need him to do another firmware update with the package from here:

http://www.firebrandx.com/downloads/fin ... ettes2.zip

Which would end up being a 3-palette selection combined with the playchoice 10 palette, and would be arranged as follows:

Playchoice 10 >>> YUV-Corrected >>> FBX-Unsaturated (new corrected version)

How this can be interpreted in terms of editing the NES palette is up to the individual, I suppose. It could be argued the purplish color is what he intended, or it could be argued he would have chosen differently given other options. Interesting nonetheless.

The color appears in the 3rd slot of the 2nd set of blue colors of the NES. In both the YUV palette and my direct capture, this set of blue has a slight purple tinge due to a red-weighted gray portion added to each blue value. The direct capture came out as 144, 138, 254 in respective RGB.

[panzeroceania]

How is the work going on the Family Computer color testing by your friend? I know you mentioned some of the numbers were coming out differently than the numbers from a front loading NES.

[FBX]

How is the work going on the Family Computer color testing by your friend? I know you mentioned some of the numbers were coming out differently than the numbers from a front loading NES.

He got way too busy with his job. Likely will be that way for the next several months.

[atheistgod1999]

I fired up Mario 1 via composite on my BVM, and the sky actually does look a little purple when chroma is set to auto. When I set the chroma to manual and turn it up to max, it looks like RGB colors. Of course, I can't do the opposite for RGB because it disables all those options when it's displaying that.

[FBX]

Tim came through on the final palette firmware update I wanted:

http://www.firebrandx.com/downloads/nesrgbfbxfinal.zip

I've already used it to update my NESRGB, and everything looks beautiful!

I've uploaded full instructions on my project page. Hit "refresh" until you see the update date of January 19th, that's the new version with the installation instructions:

http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html




Done and done!

[Smashbro29]

Is it though? You said done last time, you never know.

The eyeballing never truly ends!

[FBX]

Is it though? You said done last time, you never know.

The eyeballing never truly ends!

It's for real this time. Last time would have been the end of it except for discovering the green bias issue with the Framemeister. I just got done playing several hours of NES games, and the corrected unsaturated palette is perfect.