Most ridiculous anti-shmup hogwash?

[dial911]

I can't tell you how many times I've heard people say something to this degree:

<b>"Man those games are just too easy"</b>

That is after they credit feed their way through the game.

[Neo Rasa]

The description sounds like Blowout, which was a pretty good game actually. It controlled like Abuse (Blowout first came out on the PC and then on the XBox/PS2/Gamecube) where you could move in any direction with the keyboard and aim any way you wanted while doing so with the mouse. On the consoles you used the trigger buttons to rotate your aim.

Pretty cool game actually, lots of secrets. The texturs on the enemies are stupidly animated and too dark though. When you fight dozens of them at a time it makes it hard to tell which ones are falling over dead and which ones are about to jump at you or shoot.

Fun game since you can get it sealed for like five USD now.

[highlandcattle]

Man I don't think I would ever like to live in america where a storeclerck mocks his customers for buying a game! I dunno what my storeclerck thinks about me but atleast he's not disrespectfull!

-Hey you got viewtifull joe in?
-Sure man here you go, wait a min,you like 2d shooters don't you?
-sure do
-Well I got a secondhand copy of Rayforce in
-oh gimme,have you found out if you can order from that 505 gamestreet budgetline?
-Not yet,I'll look in to it. That'll be 35 euros please
-Thanks CU
-laters

[Zweihander]

I recall on X-Play, Morgan was practically having an orgasm narcking on 2-D games because of how bad the game she was reviewing was (sorry, can't remember the name - was a contra style shooter that took place on a space station, and you had to wander a maze). She said things like "oh 2D is dead... this game proves that 2D is dead... I just can't believe that they'd make a 2D game... there's nothing left in 2D to be done... 2D is outdated, there's no way a 2D game can be fun anymore..."

About 20 episodes later, R-Type Final and Gradius V both score 4 out 5s.

Blowout.

Also, more quotes, from various people at my college, observing me getting my shmup-on...

(while playing ESPGaluda during a break between classes...)
"You kiddin' me... dis is a PS TWO game?! get out, dog..."

(while playing Mushi, someone's reaction to the game being released in 2005, as opposed to their guess of 1995..)
"No way... get the fuck out..."

(while playing Shiki 2 on Dreamcast)
a few people: *...roll eyes, snort, and walk away*

I may walk away when people are playing Tekken 5 or Soul Callibur 3, but I don't roll my eyes and snort just to make a spectacle of it.

Oh, here's a classic: (again, while I was playing Galuda)
"what the fuck, he's a fairy!"
(upon reaching Seseri)
"'ey look, its a bigger fairy!"

Cracked me up... I had to make an effort to tune it out, since laughing was screwing up my bullet-weaving. Almost got hit a couple times, and Seseri hasn't hit me in over half a year....

EDIT: Okay, Seseri hits me once every time I play-- in stage 5-1. ;P

[WarCheese]

Hello fellow shmuppers:

On a similar but unrelated note, I like to quote a line from a review for Mushihime sama:

"It is rather amusing to see Sony’s almighty PS2 choke to death on a measly 2D shooter. " from http://www.siliconera.com/index.php/mushihime-sama/

2D shmups are not necessarily games of a past era... In fact, manic shmups are pushing the limitation of console technology...

Cheers.

WarCheese

[Dale]

Hello fellow shmuppers:

On a similar but unrelated note, I like to quote a line from a review for Mushihime sama:

"It is rather amusing to see Sony’s almighty PS2 choke to death on a measly 2D shooter. " from http://www.siliconera.com/index.php/mushihime-sama/

2D shmups are not necessarily games of a past era... In fact, manic shmups are pushing the limitation of console technology...

Cheers.

WarCheese

That really makes me wish that in the new concil generation that maybe some new 2-D games specifically designed for the new system,s would be made. I mean think about it just imagine if there was a new 2-D Mega Man game made it would look so spritetastic(MY NEW WORD)it would probaly make me cry tears of joy. I also wish treasure would stop screwing around with handhelds and make a full new mainstrem concil game using sprites just imagine if they,d designed GSSH for PS2 or X-box specs they could probaly get 4-player mode to work,There just arent enough 2-D games made anymore but if someone would just take advantage of second demension it would be so awesome, Seduko 4 maybe.(crosses fingers)

[Texhnolyze]

Also, more quotes, from various people at my college, observing me getting my shmup-on...

(while playing ESPGaluda during a break between classes...)
"You kiddin' me... dis is a PS TWO game?! get out, dog..."

(while playing Mushi, someone's reaction to the game being released in 2005, as opposed to their guess of 1995..)
"No way... get the fuck out..."

(while playing Shiki 2 on Dreamcast)
a few people: *...roll eyes, snort, and walk away*

This is what happens when gaming becomes mainstream, catering to the masses. To hell with the mainstream.

[GaijinPunch]

"I'm totally boycotting Ibara because the graphics aren't true-low-res."

It's one thing to devote an entire thread to bashing someone that no longer posts somewhere. It's particularly bad when it's not true.

I'll preorder this even if it's a bad port like Mushi was and even if I won't be playing this till 2007. Cave needs to know we want them to keep doing games as they do.

source

This is not Gamefaqs people.... although it's slowly favoring it.

[Neon]

"I'm totally boycotting Ibara because the graphics aren't true-low-res."

It's one thing to devote an entire thread to bashing someone that no longer posts somewhere. It's particularly bad when it's not true.

I'll preorder this even if it's a bad port like Mushi was and even if I won't be playing this till 2007. Cave needs to know we want them to keep doing games as they do.

source

This is not Gamefaqs people.... although it's slowly favoring it.

Clearly you have your own take on things despite the facts.

I wrote (first post of the thread, btw)

I'm not going to talk too much shit about the guy, since he's not here to defend himself,

And did you read the Ibara thread?

At any rate, it's still stupid.

[Fighter17]

I recall on X-Play, Morgan was practically having an orgasm narcking on 2-D games because of how bad the game she was reviewing was (sorry, can't remember the name - was a contra style shooter that took place on a space station, and you had to wander a maze). She said things like "oh 2D is dead... this game proves that 2D is dead... I just can't believe that they'd make a 2D game... there's nothing left in 2D to be done... 2D is outdated, there's no way a 2D game can be fun anymore..."

About 20 episodes later, R-Type Final and Gradius V both score 4 out 5s.

Blowout.

Also, more quotes, from various people at my college, observing me getting my shmup-on...

(while playing ESPGaluda during a break between classes...)
"You kiddin' me... dis is a PS TWO game?! get out, dog..."

(while playing Mushi, someone's reaction to the game being released in 2005, as opposed to their guess of 1995..)
"No way... get the fuck out..."

(while playing Shiki 2 on Dreamcast)
a few people: *...roll eyes, snort, and walk away*

I may walk away when people are playing Tekken 5 or Soul Callibur 3, but I don't roll my eyes and snort just to make a spectacle of it.

Oh, here's a classic: (again, while I was playing Galuda)
"what the fuck, he's a fairy!"
(upon reaching Seseri)
"'ey look, its a bigger fairy!"

Cracked me up... I had to make an effort to tune it out, since laughing was screwing up my bullet-weaving. Almost got hit a couple times, and Seseri hasn't hit me in over half a year....

EDIT: Okay, Seseri hits me once every time I play-- in stage 5-1. ;P

In school people know I play shmups, and some of my friends play shmups together! With the ZSNES emulator, me and my friend were playing Aero Fighters on Netplay, and oh boy it was fun. Later that day we were playing Mario Kart.

My friend keep bugging me about the SNES version of Raiden Trad. He loves it, but I keep telling him that there're better ports of it on different consoles.

On a similar note, I went inside a EB Games, and there were these gamers talking about games and such. I told the clerk that I still play old-school games and such, and he was laughing like hell. I had my Neo Geo Pocket Color on that day so I flashed it in front of his face and he couldn't believe it. "Too fucking old, get a PSP." was his comment.

[GaijinPunch]

Clearly you have your own take on things despite the facts.

I'm not defending anyone -- I just thought you should know he basically said the opposite of what you had eluded to in this thread. And regardless of what you said in the other thread, was it really necessary to start it? Why not use google, or just ask him directly... he's hardly hard to get a hold of.

[elvis]

On a similar note, I went inside a EB Games, and there were these gamers talking about games and such. I told the clerk that I still play old-school games and such, and he was laughing like hell. I had my Neo Geo Pocket Color on that day so I flashed it in front of his face and he couldn't believe it. "Too fucking old, get a PSP." was his comment.

EB make their money in two ways:
1) Game and console sales (duh)
2) Advertising (companies pay big money to have their games on their front page of the website, as well as the instore displays and quarterly catalogues they push out).

Both of the above are powered by flashy bling graphics and wow factor, and regular sales. Regular sales aren't made from games that people play for months/years. They need to sell mediocre-gameplay/flashy-graphics mainstream games to fickle kids who will just bug mum and dad to buy another 10 titles next month because they are bored with the current crop.

To me, nothing credible has ever or will ever be said by anyone even vaguely associated with EB. They are nothing more than money hungry leeches feeding off the current mainstream hype industry that is modern gaming. That same industry is losing money left right and centre, as the recent financial reports of the big companies (EA, Take Two / Rockstar, etc) are proving (check out Kotaku.com for regular reports). EB will do anything to keep that hype alive, and keep the money train on its tracks, including telling people to "buy a PSP", simply because it's new tech, disregarding whether or not the unit actually has a decent library of *FUN* games (quality, not quantity).

I don't buy from EB, and never will. If I can find a local release of a game on the shelves of places like K-Mart, Woolworths and Toyworld here in Australia, then I will. Most of the time the Australian market is too small for people like 505 to even bother with, and you'd be lucky to find titles from them ever. As such, I tend to buy import direct from Lik-Sang, Play-Asia, etc. At least that way I don't have to put up with lowlife moron EB staff telling me what I should or shouldn't enjoy.

[Fighter17]

On a similar note, I went inside a EB Games, and there were these gamers talking about games and such. I told the clerk that I still play old-school games and such, and he was laughing like hell. I had my Neo Geo Pocket Color on that day so I flashed it in front of his face and he couldn't believe it. "Too fucking old, get a PSP." was his comment.

EB make their money in two ways:
1) Game and console sales (duh)
2) Advertising (companies pay big money to have their games on their front page of the website, as well as the instore displays and quarterly catalogues they push out).

Both of the above are powered by flashy bling graphics and wow factor, and regular sales. Regular sales aren't made from games that people play for months/years. They need to sell mediocre-gameplay/flashy-graphics mainstream games to fickle kids who will just bug mum and dad to buy another 10 titles next month because they are bored with the current crop.

To me, nothing credible has ever or will ever be said by anyone even vaguely associated with EB. They are nothing more than money hungry leeches feeding off the current mainstream hype industry that is modern gaming. That same industry is losing money left right and centre, as the recent financial reports of the big companies (EA, Take Two / Rockstar, etc) are proving (check out Kotaku.com for regular reports). EB will do anything to keep that hype alive, and keep the money train on its tracks, including telling people to "buy a PSP", simply because it's new tech, disregarding whether or not the unit actually has a decent library of *FUN* games (quality, not quantity).

I don't buy from EB, and never will. If I can find a local release of a game on the shelves of places like K-Mart, Woolworths and Toyworld here in Australia, then I will. Most of the time the Australian market is too small for people like 505 to even bother with, and you'd be lucky to find titles from them ever. As such, I tend to buy import direct from Lik-Sang, Play-Asia, etc. At least that way I don't have to put up with lowlife moron EB staff telling me what I should or shouldn't enjoy.

That's why after that day, I never went inside EB Games ever again.

[pixelcorps]

To me, nothing credible has ever or will ever be said by anyone even vaguely associated with EB. They are nothing more than money hungry leeches feeding off the current mainstream hype industry that is modern gaming. That same industry is losing money left right and centre, as the recent financial reports of the big companies (EA, Take Two / Rockstar, etc) are proving (check out Kotaku.com for regular reports). EB will do anything to keep that hype alive, and keep the money train on its tracks, including telling people to "buy a PSP", simply because it's new tech, disregarding whether or not the unit actually has a decent library of *FUN* games (quality, not quantity).

AMEN!!

I'm so glad I live within a few minutes walk from an import store.. I'd rather support polite and knowledgable staff , and pay a bit extra instead of dealing with a spotty robot paid to hawk playguides and hardware of the month...

[Neon]

Clearly you have your own take on things despite the facts.

I'm not defending anyone -- I just thought you should know he basically said the opposite of what you had eluded to in this thread. And regardless of what you said in the other thread, was it really necessary to start it? Why not use google, or just ask him directly... he's hardly hard to get a hold of.

Well, credits to him. I was referring to the Ibara thread however. I'm not really up to digging through it over this but subtract the word 'totally' from what I said and I doubt it's even a paraphrase.

Anyways, I more or less agree with your NTSC-J sentiment...buying a Japanese console and games is easier than screwing around with mods, etc. and the consoles themselves typically look better.

[Acid King]

Maybe I should finish up that article. Seriously, if you buy NTSC-J only games, you're almost always buying off the internet, or from stores in Japan. You never, and I mean never, hear bullshit from dipshit store clerks. I've only stepped into a Gamestop or Electronics Boutique once, and that was b/c I needed a cable.

Same here. There's pretty much nothing I want there although sometimes I find good stuff for cheap (Legacy of Kain Defiance 9.99 new) but buy most everything online. The last time I got a shooter at an EB it was Gradius V. I went up to the clerk and asked for it "Gradius V? Doesn't exist." and said it wasn't in the computer. Next day, I walked into the same store and asked for it and a different guy was like "Yeah here it is...."

[zimmy]

The manager knew me and asked my opinion of Halo 2. I turned and said, "Turok in a space suit."

Oh, that's classic, as a big Halo-hater, I'll have to quote that a few times in future converstations... However, please don't hate me because my hate for Halo comes from a different source. In addition to being a shmup fan, I also enjoy PC FPS games, and in my opinion, Halo would've been seen as the mediocre repetitive game it is if it had been released on the PC where it could've competed with real FPS games. Just consider me a general action game fan; 2D, 3D, overhead, first person-doesn't matter; good games are just good games to me.

Hmmm, and there seems to be a lot of hate for EB, that's too bad. I personally love EB, since they're the only places that seems to hold any games that have aged a little. You can only get recent stuff stuff at other stores. Sure they may try to sell you stuff, but they are a business after all, and making money is sort of how they keep those oldies on the shelf. The key is to just say no. Don't want a magazine subscription? Don't want a PSP? Don't want to be a gold member? Just say no, it's that easy. Personally, if a store still sells Dreamcast games(as my local EB does)a visit is diffinently worth saying no once or twice when I check out. Now I guess import stores would be the best option, but considering I've never seen an import store in my whole life and I don't enjoy the benefit of having my own credit/debit card for the online equivalent, that's not exactly a viable option, is it?

[elvis]

please don't hate me because my hate for Halo comes from a different source. In addition to being a shmup fan, I also enjoy PC FPS games, and in my opinion, Halo would've been seen as the mediocre repetitive game it is if it had been released on the PC where it could've competed with real FPS games.

No hate from me. I'm a huge Unreal Tournament (on PC, not console) fan. Halo is feels as if the whole game is being played underwater in slow motion.

Keyboards and mice for FPS, joysticks and buttons for shooters. Not the other way around.

[Acid King]

please don't hate me because my hate for Halo comes from a different source. In addition to being a shmup fan, I also enjoy PC FPS games, and in my opinion, Halo would've been seen as the mediocre repetitive game it is if it had been released on the PC where it could've competed with real FPS games.

The control on the PC was really poor too. The cursor movement was weird, not tight and crisp like counterstrike or basically any other PC based FPS.

[HayakawaKen]

I dunno, I actually hyped up GV and Shiki to a few people at my work... EB, y'know the scuzzy place everyone dumps on here. Anyways, it actually sold pretty well despite people thinking "oh it's too old" etc. I dunno, I guess there's just a lot of those stores that are run by pure idiots. I brought ESPGaluda to work a few times and people were pretty impressed with it even. I guess your mileage may vary when it comes to game stores. You'd be surprised how many casual fans of the genre there are around, most approaching it with a sense of nostalga, but liking it nonetheless.

[kemical]

well, you gotta remember, shmups aren't the most amazing best type of game ..there is no way to determine that, we just happen to enjoy them, everyone enjoys different things.

but I think that your average "blockbuster" console/pc games are going to start hitting walls with storytelling soon.. they keep trying to be more realistic, more immersive, more polygons, more real-world, but they are still using the same storytelling formula, trying to copy movies.. but for games like these to truly achieve "interactive entertainment" they are going to need to drop the whole movie-formula.. the whole cutscene/scripted sequence type thing.

I think that when this hopefully starts happening, when cutscenes truly start getting old, there will be more emphasis on interesting gameplay ideas and stuff. There is always going to be the baby-sitting entertainment type games, like call of duty 2 or quake 4 or halo 2, etc, because a lot of people just want an experience rather than sitting down to play chess or checkers...


Already, you can look to the casual market (although its flooded with puzzle games mainly due to it's PC/mouse input roots) and the indie development crowd for games that try gameplay-oriented stuff...
I think that services like Xbox Live Arcade, are going to be extremely helpful in getting lots of "hardcore gamer" people exposed to gameplay oriented stuff, also casual games, but because of the even playing field, ie all running xbox360 and all with a certain type of controller, this will open up the ability for casual games to move away from puzzles and mouse-bound stuff.. blabla bla.

you also have your portable/mobile games, but most of the time any sidescrollers/shooters for these are done due to strictly hardware limits, and the actual gameplay is usually poor or uninspired.. it's similar to looking at genesis or snes days.. you have some great inspired games, and then lots of poor uninspired games.

You just need to start getting mainstream acceptance of experimental gameplay ideas, plus also use of "old" gameplay styles like sidescrolling stuff, and I think this will happen as more casual/indie games are brought to console users through services like xbox live arcade, and also as more blockbuster games begin to hit walls with movie-formula storytelling.

the end!

[Turrican]

"Menace is rubbish" - who said that???

Wait a minute... I like Menace

[zimmy]

There is always going to be the baby-sitting entertainment type games, like call of duty 2 or quake 4 or halo 2, etc, because a lot of people just want an experience rather than sitting down to play chess or checkers...

I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but if consider those games "baby-sitting entertainment," as I would assume you're talking about their plethora of scripted gameplay, then you would have to throw in shmups with them too. Shmups are probably the most scripted genre around, where every enemy movement is planned, and in 3D games like Ikaruga, the course of your ship goes through a predetermined path in the 3D world to increase the cinematic feeling of the game, and while most 2D shooters don't have predetermined paths(Raiden Fighters is the only one I can think of at this moment), the backround usually scrolls through an image that's unique at every part(I.E.-the backround image doesn't loop), essentially imitating a predetermined path, even if it still technically jsut scrolls up at the same pace. Now to shmuppers, that scripted gameplay is probably why we love the genre. In a well-done shmup, the gameplay is scripted artfully so that every moment feels different than the rest. I would even sort of draw similarities between scripting a shmup and writing a song. So given that shmuppers usually laud scripts in their own games, I sort of think it would be a little contradictory for us to cite that as a reason for disliking other games.

As can be seen from the last paragraph, I don't think scripted gameplay is that bad. Now cinematics are a different story, but I still don't think we've come to the point where cinematics don't just supplement gameplay, but actually replace it. Look at Grand Theft Auto 3, loads of quality cinematics, but still some original open-ended gameplay. While a lot of hardcore gamers look at cinematics as the down-fall of modern gaming, plenty of developers are going for the "open-ended" gameplay, essentially working in the opposite direction. Overall, I think all gamers can use a little faith in the gaming industry, even assuming they do pump out a lot of crap and only a little quality, is that really that different from movies, music, or books? All media of entertainment will have its geniouses, its imitators, and the just plain bad.

[professor ganson]

Me: "Do you have Chaos Field for the Gamecube?"
Gamespot employee: "How do you spell that?"

[hikarutilmitt]

The day after Mushihime came out for PS2 and we received our orders, HayakawaKen brought his Japanese PS2 to work (AT EB!!!) to play it during slow periods. I went there after work to pick up my copy of the game and try it out that night.

Fast forward about 30 minutes or so. My girlfriend is in the process of playing the game and this kid walks in, supposedly 18 or 19 but he doesn't look much older than 15, IMO. Anyway, he's watching the game and stuff, and then mentions it being "all old school" and stuff, then asks me when it came out.

"Came out yesterday, actually."

He just gave me a funny look and didn't say anything else about the game or us while he was in the store.

Now, I can understand someone being drawn to a game because it looks really awesome or something since that's the first thing you SEE about the game. That's fine. If that's all you want out of your games that's fine too. Limited time with games is what trading them in for new ones is for. However, essentially ignoring or shunning gamers just because a game "looks old" and you're enjoying it is a pretty stupid thing to do, regardless of the genre.

I do think that part of us playing 2D shmups so much is the nostalgia factor of the gameplay being, scoring systems aside, the simplistic gameplay. With each and every medium of pretty much anything, be it music, movies, games or whatever, the people from the previous generations will eventually be mocked by the newer generations of gamers for sticking to their "old games" or whatever simply because they think we're still in the past. The ones that get it worse are the ones from the newer generation that like and/or prefer the older generations of games.

My point? I think I may have lost it in the typing and lack of sleep, but nobody wins in this feuding of generations when it comes to having fun. My parents didn't like most of the music I listened to when I was younger (I'm 25 now and listen to a lot of classic rock, now), their parents didn't like what they listened to and I don't know the score on their previous generation. I, personally, think that a large portion of the more played music these days is dreck pumped out to make a buck and sound flashy whe it's just some guy yelling into a mic for 4 or 5 minutes. The only radio I listen to now is a morning show and the local classic rock station. I'm almost guaranteed to hate the music my kids will listen to, likely dislike the movies they watch and likely, VERY likely, not like the games they play.

I guess the only options we really have left, now, are to:

1) ignore them and play what we want, since they don't matter to our enjoyment anyway
2) "evolve" as gamers while gaming itself evolves and play the stuff e find fun, of the newer games
3) both of the above, playing just the stuff that's fun regardless of its age. I mean, there ARE some really, really bad shmups from the 8-bit and 16-bit days

[Zweihander]

3) both of the above, playing just the stuff that's fun regardless of its age. I mean, there ARE some really, really bad shmups from the 8-bit and 16-bit days

Certainly you don't mean... Zero Wing?!

...j/k. I heard ZW, as a shmup, actually blows. o_O

Still, when it comes to classic gaming in general... shmups tend to hold their core roots throughout the ages, while action games are all about that third dimension now.. i'll take Mario 3 over Mario 64, and Link to the Past over Ocarina or Majora, tyvm.

[Bloodreign]

Not exactly shmup related, but when I purchased Namco Museum 50th Anniversary the Gamestop employee at first asked me if it was X-Box or PS2. I said PS 2 of course as I told him that's all I owned, then I started chatting with him about Taito Legends and he was like "oh cool you know Rygar kicks ass in that collection." I scratched my head a second and told him that was a Tecmo game and that was X-Box, he then proceeded to ask me if I'd like to purchase the Tecmo Collection for X-Box just mere moments after I told him I had a PS 2.

I also once mentioned about Taito Legends at another forum I visit, and this one kid was like "why play this when I can play Resident Evil 4?" I in turn replied, why pay 50 bucks for a game I'll beat and retire, when I can pay 20 bucks for 29 games I know I'll never stop playing, that shut him up right quick. Even one of the other forum goers had to have a giggle at his expense, and pretty much agreed with my statement.

Now I know as I get older I appreciate the old games more and more, and don't find as much to like in newer 3-D games, too much focus on eye candy, and not enough on gameplay and replay value. But I admit the way Gradius V was done made my jaw drop because I knew love and care went into that game.

[Fighter17]

...j/k. I heard ZW, as a shmup, actually blows. o_O

Zero Wing wasn't bad at all. It was a great Toaplan shmup.

[Shatterhand]

I think mainstream gamers have a pronbem with more arcade games. They are twitch, needs lots of skills and reflexes, and they aren't made for you to WIN. You are supposed to LOSE and LOSE and LOSE and LOSE up until after many tries, you eventually win. And there's of course, the graphics factor.

Now, usually most of my friends who are mainstream gamers don't make bad comments about shmups. If anyone sees me playing a shmup (or any other 2d game), and complains about the graphics, I usually always reply with "I don't want to look something beautiful, I want to PLAY THE GAME. If I wanted something beautiful I would be looking at a fucking painting.", which usually shut them up. If they complain the game is not realistic enough, I usually reply like "Yeah, like actually killing someone has anything to do with moving a mouse and pressing a button". And if they complain the game is too hard, I reply "Yeah, that's not for cry babies. You can go play your Final Fantasy games or whatever, this is for REAL MEN" (Yeah, it´s stupid, but it works ).

But in all honesty, most people I know actually respect the genre. They may complain the games are too hard, but they usually don't fault the genre for this, but their lack of skill .

And those days the son of my neighbours went here at my house (My mom was talking to his mother).. he's 12 years old, and I asked him if he wanted to play some games. He said yes, and then he asked me if I had GTA or Need for Speed.

I said I didn't have.... I actually put him to play Pro Evolution Soccer 5, as it is the most "mainstrean" game I own. He didn't like it too much, so he asked for some game where he could shoot stuff (Probably wanted something like Halo....)

I couldn't resist, and I put him to play Batrider... and while he credit feeded through the game, he was actually having LOTS of fun.. he was like "WOW... what kind of game is this?" I said it was as shmup, and he then said "Do you have more games like that?"... I showed him Battle Bakraid, and then he credit feeded through the game THREE times in a row. Then he was leaving (His mom called for him), and I explained to him that the real challenge in those games is to try to beat them without using continues, and he was like "Great, let's try that the next time I'm here"

There's still hope... forget the current generation, let's save our kids!

[Dylan1CC]

While my brother and friends all credit feed, they at least try to get better at the games when they do play them and have a lot of respect for the genre. As far as gaming media, here is one of the worst, from the August 2005 EGM in their pathetically small import "section," (which used to be one of the better parts of the mag before they shrunk it down to almost nothing) some uncredited moron editor:

"Then how about a game that combines the two least popular genres on the planet-- text adventures and overhead shoot-em-ups-- into a single $65 package? The Shiki series has so much backstory behind its bulet-ridden hide that the creators actually made an adventure game based on it. And your choices in this adventure affect the difficulty and enemy setups of the shooting sections. When did shooter plots get so complicated? Beats us-- it's to the point where developers even sell a separate DVD with artwork, interviews, and original radio-drama bits. All this for a game in which you press a single button...a lot.

Yet I'm sure he/she'd give Square glowing Oscar winning props on their beyond idiotic rehashed angst "plotlines."