XRGB-mini Framemeister

[FBX]

I thought it was pretty well known? Or is there some inconsistency between 1CHIP-02 models where some do and some don't?

Yes it seems some 1CHIP-2 have CSYNC connected and some don't as reported by some users here.

I think it's the SFC models where some of the -02 revisions also don't have Csync. I've not heard any reports of this also being the case on NTSC models.

[Hamburglar]

OK well oddly enough, I somehow fixed my sync issue with the 1CHIP-02. No clue what the hell it did but here's what I did:

I soldered a wire from pin 7 to the encoder to pin 3 on the A/V multi-out. I also soldered a wire from pin 3 to pin 9 on the multi AV out. This way, I figured, csync is going to both the 3 and 9 pin, so no matter which RGB cable I use (wired for csync or composite sync), it will work. Or that's my theory anyway.

Anyway I just did this and now my 1CHIP-02 plays on my XRGB Mini just fine. I guess some 1CHIP-02s really do not have csync wired up? I noticed the encoder on mine was an "S-RGB", and my other 1CHIP-02 had an "S-RGB A". No clue if this could be the difference.

[cerwym]

Has anyone noticed an issue with the unit stripping vertical lines in HDMI_DIRECT mode?

I have recently obtained a HDMI Splitter (Powered) and I've noticed the following scenarios;

There is no missing line when I DON'T use the framemeister and use the splitter.
There is a missing line when I DO use the framemeister and DO use the splitter.
There is a missing line when I DO use the framemeister and DON't use the splitter.

Is this a known issue or something that I can correct on my end if I've buggered about with something that would cause this (As far as I'm aware though, everything that would adjust scan and positioning is locked in DIRECT mode).

Comparison Screenshots;

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/353 ... eister.png - WITHOUT FRAMEMEISTER
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/353 ... eister.png - WITH FRAMEMEISTER

[bonzo.bits]

I finally downloaded FBX' framemeister profiles - wow! Awesome job on the SNES and N64. I don't even mind losing a few pixels off the top and bottom in 5x, just happy to have something fill the screen vertically and look pretty good with scanlines in 1080p output.

I have a few questions for FBX; will you ever do a Saturn profile? If not, do you have some tips for calculations, etc, in order to get perfect pixels at1080p output from the Framemeister?

[Rongolian]

In the new RGB episode in My Life in Gaming, they tackle the Hi Def NES, that has some interesting scaling options. One of the options they used was integer scaling 4x vertically but 5x horizontally, I think it looked pretty neat.

FBX, have you ever taken a look at getting the Framemeister to scale in this way? Is it possible?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TI60A3DpI6w

(4x by 5x scaling shown around 4:50)

[Fudoh]

I have a few questions for FBX; will you ever do a Saturn profile? If not, do you have some tips for calculations, etc, in order to get perfect pixels at1080p output from the Framemeister?

you can start out with the MD profile and take it from there. The active resolution is pretty much the same for the Saturn's standard resolution.

One of the options they used was integer scaling 4x vertically but 5x horizontally, I think it looked pretty neat.

Horizontal integer scaling doesn't do anything on the Mini, since you don't have a digital signal to start with but an analogue signal which gets generically sampled first.

[Playcubeman]

Hello excuse me for my english but I'm french.
I therefore has a super Nintendo, Samsung 4k hu7500 a tv and a mini xrgb. I plugged it all on my tv but I am disappointed with the result. I find my work 4k tv as well as xrgb.
Can you give me tips to improve the image?
Thank you.

[FBX]

In the new RGB episode in My Life in Gaming, they tackle the Hi Def NES, that has some interesting scaling options. One of the options they used was integer scaling 4x vertically but 5x horizontally, I think it looked pretty neat.

FBX, have you ever taken a look at getting the Framemeister to scale in this way? Is it possible?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TI60A3DpI6w

(4x by 5x scaling shown around 4:50)

I actually helped advise on that video

But anyway, the 5x4 trick is an oldie from emulators. I didn't much like how wide it was myself some years ago when I was doing emulation instead of the real console.

As mentioned in the video (and by Fudoh here), the Framemeister doesn't require horizontal integer scaling; just only on the vertical.

[bonzo.bits]

I have a few questions for FBX; will you ever do a Saturn profile? If not, do you have some tips for calculations, etc, in order to get perfect pixels at1080p output from the Framemeister?

you can start out with the MD profile and take it from there. The active resolution is pretty much the same for the Saturn's standard resolution.

Thanks, Fudoh. I was hoping that would be the case

FBX, it was the mention you got on the latest MLIG video that inspired me to dl your profiles. Thanks again.

[fafangus]

Hello excuse me for my english but I'm french.
I therefore has a super Nintendo, Samsung 4k hu7500 a tv and a mini xrgb. I plugged it all on my tv but I am disappointed with the result. I find my work 4k tv as well as xrgb.
Can you give me tips to improve the image?
Thank you.

Salut l'ami ^^ je suis aussi français
Primo tu as quoi comme modèle de Snes (SFC?) ?
Tu as quoi comme soucis à l'image qui ne te parait pas agréable (défaut de scaling ? problème de synchro ?)
Pour les réglages tv 4k via xrgb-mini je ne peut pas t'aider j'ai un 1080p

[Playcubeman]

Hello excuse me for my english but I'm french.
I therefore has a super Nintendo, Samsung 4k hu7500 a tv and a mini xrgb. I plugged it all on my tv but I am disappointed with the result. I find my work 4k tv as well as xrgb.
Can you give me tips to improve the image?
Thank you.

Salut l'ami ^^ je suis aussi français
Primo tu as quoi comme modèle de Snes (SFC?) ?
Tu as quoi comme soucis à l'image qui ne te parait pas agréable (défaut de scaling ? problème de synchro ?)
Pour les réglages tv 4k via xrgb-mini je ne peut pas t'aider j'ai un 1080p

Salut, je possède une snes française.
Enfaite j'ai testé le xrgb avec scailine et sans scailine.
Ensuite j'ai branché la snes directement sur la tv. Donc avec le traitement de la tv et sans xrgb.
Résultat, la tv travail aussi bien sans scailine que le xrgb... C'est pas normal si ?

[Xyga]

What settings you are using on the mini please ? also post the picture links you've shown on neo-arcadia, that might prove useful.
Is you Samsung set to 'game mode' ?

[Playcubeman]

<font><font>Quels sont les paramètres que vous utilisez sur le mini s'il vous plaît? </font><font>aussi poster l'image Liens que vous avez montré le néo-arcadia, qui pourraient se révéler utiles. </font><font>: wink: </font></font>
<font><font>vous est Samsung ensemble de «mode de jeu"?</font></font>

I use the settings mark here
http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/XRGB ... AMEMEISTER

pictures:
http://www.cjoint.com/c/EKutARcFtXv
Xrgb scaline 720

http://www.cjoint.com/c/EKutGsz3XGv
Samsung tv 4K

http://www.cjoint.com/c/EKutFlBKhNv
xrbg 1080

[bonzo.bits]

Update for any Saturn owners, the FBX profiles for Genesis do a great job of sharpening up the image. Motion appears smoother now too, at least in Sega Rally. Sharpness of text and logos have taken a noticeable bump too.

Question for those with expertise in messing with Framemeister settings to ensure that the output fits the display on a pixel-by-pixel basis (perfect pixels), what is the best way to determine that my display is achieving perfection (or as close to perfection as possible)? Do I simply adjust zoom, h pos and v pos by the smallest increments and observe the results? Since loading the FBX profiles, I've been looking at the screen right up close and can see that there appears to be slight smudging between colours where the pixel borders are. It's only noticeable when viewing distance < 50cm which is at least 1m closer than I usually view from. Problem is that now I've noticed it, I want to find out if it can be improved.

Display is a plasma, so it could just bea quirk of the technology itself. I have no technical knowledge of dithering or how/why it occurs, but I can see a lot of it on the entire display.

As an example of the smudging, using the 4x profile where each pixel is multiplied to 16 pixels, where a block of 16 light-coloured pixels is displayed next to a block of 16 daek-coloured, the row of dark pixels immediately next to the light block, becomes row of pixels of a colour that is a combination of the light and dark colours. Again, this can't be noticed any further than 50cm from the screen, but, I would really appreciate any advice or knowledge that could be shared

[fafangus]

Xyga wrote:
<font><font>Quels sont les paramètres que vous utilisez sur le mini s'il vous plaît? </font><font>aussi poster l'image Liens que vous avez montré le néo-arcadia, qui pourraient se révéler utiles. </font><font>: wink: </font></font>
<font><font>vous est Samsung ensemble de «mode de jeu"?</font></font>


I use the settings mark here
http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/XRGB ... AMEMEISTER

pictures:
http://www.cjoint.com/c/EKutARcFtXv
Xrgb scaline 720

http://www.cjoint.com/c/EKutGsz3XGv
Samsung tv 4K

http://www.cjoint.com/c/EKutFlBKhNv
xrbg 1080

Salut, on va continuer en anglais lol

Here a pic of my SFC with mario 3 :
http://imgur.com/avrATY0
And a short video : (don't blame me my hdd are not ssd for now ^^) :
https://youtu.be/TbIHGgbF8Mc

At the little of the video you could see my settings

I go like that :
240p (SFC for this instance) > Sync Strike > Extron rgb 203rxi > Extron Matrix > Xselectd4 > Extron matrix > Xrgbmini (Dterminal input)

[Playcubeman]

Xyga wrote:
<font><font>Quels sont les paramètres que vous utilisez sur le mini s'il vous plaît? </font><font>aussi poster l'image Liens que vous avez montré le néo-arcadia, qui pourraient se révéler utiles. </font><font>: wink: </font></font>
<font><font>vous est Samsung ensemble de «mode de jeu"?</font></font>


I use the settings mark here
http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/XRGB ... AMEMEISTER

pictures:
http://www.cjoint.com/c/EKutARcFtXv
Xrgb scaline 720

http://www.cjoint.com/c/EKutGsz3XGv
Samsung tv 4K

http://www.cjoint.com/c/EKutFlBKhNv
xrbg 1080

Salut, on va continuer en anglais lol

Here a pic of my SFC with mario 3 :
http://imgur.com/avrATY0
And a short video : (don't blame me my hdd are not ssd for now ^^) :
https://youtu.be/TbIHGgbF8Mc

At the little of the video you could see my settings

I go like that :
240p (SFC for this instance) > Sync Strike > Extron rgb 203rxi > Extron Matrix > Xselectd4 > Extron matrix > Xrgbmini (Dterminal input)

Merci pour tous par contre je vois pas en quoi ca peut m'aider... (je suis peut etre fatiguer)....
Question meme en 720 mes scanline n'ont pas toutes la meme epaisseurs, comment faire pour regler ce soucis?
Je souhaite jouer avec la transparence des scanlines et je sais pas comment faire.....
Désolé j'ai beaucoup de questions ????

[Guspaz]

Translation:

Thanks for everything, although I'm not sure how it helps me... (maybe I'm just tired)....
Question: even in 720, the scanlines aren't all the same thickness. How do you fix this problem?
I'd like to play with the transparency of the scanlines and I don't know how to do that.
Sorry for having so many questions ????

[Fudoh]

The 720p upscaling on that Samsung looks atrocious. If disabling the overscan and using the set's game or PC mode doesn't help, there's nothing you can do. Then it's simply the TV's scaling engine that's failing you.

[Tomdominer]

Does anyone have any recommendations for pal 384×288 3DO settings? or any pal settings in general?

I have NTSC 60hz consoles for the most part but I only have a pal 3DO and therefore don't have any great profile settings.

[fafangus]

I've got a samqung too...

The fact is you've got a pal snes, so in terms of picture you could get a better upscale with a sfc (240p over 288p) I suppose, and you could add a rgbmod to your sfc that could sharpen the pixel over a non modded or a non 1chip version

And add a rgb amplifier (not sure of the term ? ^^) (extron) could make the picture more stable

[FBX]

As an example of the smudging, using the 4x profile where each pixel is multiplied to 16 pixels, where a block of 16 light-coloured pixels is displayed next to a block of 16 daek-coloured, the row of dark pixels immediately next to the light block, becomes row of pixels of a colour that is a combination of the light and dark colours. Again, this can't be noticed any further than 50cm from the screen, but, I would really appreciate any advice or knowledge that could be shared

That's the analog nature of the conversion process. It's also what allows the Framemeister to avoid scrolling artifacts on the horizontal axis no matter what width the image is set to. It still requires integer-scaling on the vertical axis though. At any rate, you will always see a little smudging with the Framemeister. The only way around this is all-digital HDMI mods like the one for the NES.

[Fudoh]

The only way around this is all-digital HDMI mods like the one for the NES.

or a processor with an optimized input sampling like Marqs OSSD.

[RGB32E]

As an example of the smudging, using the 4x profile where each pixel is multiplied to 16 pixels, where a block of 16 light-coloured pixels is displayed next to a block of 16 daek-coloured, the row of dark pixels immediately next to the light block, becomes row of pixels of a colour that is a combination of the light and dark colours. Again, this can't be noticed any further than 50cm from the screen, but, I would really appreciate any advice or knowledge that could be shared

That's the analog nature of the conversion process. It's also what allows the Framemeister to avoid scrolling artifacts on the horizontal axis no matter what width the image is set to. It still requires integer-scaling on the vertical axis though. At any rate, you will always see a little smudging with the Framemeister. The only way around this is all-digital HDMI mods like the one for the NES.

Incorrect. It's the chroma subsampling artifact caused by the XRGB-mini's HW (e.g. 4:4:4 -> 4:2:2). The XRGB-3 and XPC-4 do not subsample (FPGA scaling instead of Marvell Qdeo) so you do not get those sorts of artifacts on pixel value transitions. Full red to black or blue are obvious examples (e.g. Super Castlevania 4 life UI).

[Guspaz]

o_O That is not something that I would expect from a $400+ device, particularly considering that an FPGA for upscaling costs a lot less than that.

[RGB32E]

It's generally something you do not notice under normal circumstances. Similar colors next to each other do not exhibit this issue. The unit sells for closer to $300 now (in USD of course). Can't believe I've had the mini for nearly 4 years now!

[FBX]

I thought an analog RGB signal by its nature cannot have 'perfect' sharpness like a digital signal would. So wouldn't there always be some edge degradation between pixels?

[Fudoh]

FBX, did you see the OSSC demo video marqs uploaded some time ago ? That's a good example how 444 processing along with optimized sampling can pretty much achieve perfect results from analogue 15khz RGB signals.

[FBX]

FBX, did you see the OSSC demo video marqs uploaded some time ago ? That's a good example how 444 processing along with optimized sampling can pretty much achieve perfect results from analogue 15khz RGB signals.

I missed it, where can I check it out?

Also when you say "pretty much", does that mean as sharp as say HDMI NES?

[Fudoh]

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p1146943

Also when you say "pretty much", does that mean as sharp as say HDMI NES?

as close as it gets. When you watch the video, don't forget that the video is 4:2:0 while the original output is 4:4:4, so the cross color effects you see where (especially on reds) are not present on the original video.

[FBX]

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p1146943

Also when you say "pretty much", does that mean as sharp as say HDMI NES?

as close as it gets. When you watch the video, don't forget that the video is 4:2:0 while the original output is 4:4:4, so the cross color effects you see where (especially on reds) are not present on the original video.

Wow that is incredibly sharp for an RGB source! A few questions:

The video appeared to be a sort of 3x scale as far as I could see. Will there be 4x and 5x overscanned options?

Can it handle width correction with some sort of interpolation so the pixels stay uniform?

What system was that game coming from, and would any RGB sourced system be that sharp?

Thanks for your time on that!