Breaking into scrolling shooters

[Special World]

Hi everyone, I made a list of scrolling shooters for people looking to get into the genre:

https://catstronaut.wordpress.com/2015/ ... -shooters/

My idea for the article was this: There are a ton of great scrolling shooters, but the #1 thing a new player will need is fun games that are affordable and available. I tried to examine these games from a number of other perspectives to decide which ones would be good for new players, but I didn't have a hard and fast checklist for each game. Personally, I think every game on the list has very different strengths that might make them appealing to new players.

This isn't the first list like this that's been written, and I'm sure it won't be the last. But I'm posting this because I want to hear from you guys. Which picks do you agree with, and which do you disagree with? What games would you pick for new players, and why?

[Cagar]

I'd definitely move Crimzon Clover WI near the top of the PC-list.
Cool as fuck, many difficulties and modes, very modern with online leaderboards and such, cheap and often on sale.

ChoRenSha68k is a good game, but pretty hard to get to work like intended (especially if you're not good with computers).

[Special World]

Ya, I definitely considered replacing Danmaku 2 with Crimzon Clover... Ultimately though, I decided that Danmaku was a very straightforward game that anyone would enjoy. I went with my gut on that one, even though I think Crimzon Clover is the better game.

I had problems with Cho Ren Sha's audio, but a quick Google search fixed it. Didn't know it was typical.

[Cagar]

Ya, I definitely considered replacing Danmaku 2 with Crimzon Clover... Ultimately though, I decided that Danmaku was a very straightforward game that anyone would enjoy. I went with my gut on that one, even though I think Crimzon Clover is the better game.

I had problems with Cho Ren Sha's audio, but a quick Google search fixed it. Didn't know it was typical.

Aside from audio, I've faced monitor flickering and wrong aspect ratio (<- very common)

[Obiwanshinobi]

Pretty much every non-shmupper I recommended it to seemed to enjoy Raiden III on PC, now on GOG and Steam. I consider the Ghost Squad port as relevant as S&P2, but if the first S&P and Wild Guns on VC can be played with pointer controls, it would also be just to mention those.
S&P2 certainly plays like a Gradius V's sibling (and of the last-gen systems library, downloadable The Red Star PSP port deserves to be mentioned in this sentence).
Speaking of Under Defeat HD, it would be fair to note it's on 360 too.

[Special World]

I never really warmed up to Raiden III. I love RFA and Raiden IV is very good, though. I wanted to add Raiden IV Overkill to the PS3 section, but it's $20 and I decided $15 was the cutoff limit for me personally to say "this is a cheap game." I would have actually liked to cut it off at $10, but RFA is a great collection of 3 games and Sin and Punishment 2 is pretty much one of the only retail Wii shooters. Wild Guns would have been a great pick though; I'm pretty sure everyone loves that game.

Under Defeat HD is another one I excluded because of price—it's more expensive on the Xbox Live marketplace, for some reason.

[Obiwanshinobi]

I see PAL 360 and PS3 copies dirt-cheap all the time. Was there no US print at all?

[Squire Grooktook]

Ya, I definitely considered replacing Danmaku 2 with Crimzon Clover... Ultimately though, I decided that Danmaku was a very straightforward game that anyone would enjoy. I went with my gut on that one, even though I think Crimzon Clover is the better game.

I think Clover would win casuals more then DU2 primarily because of its wealth of content: You have boos mode (pretty simple), original, time attack, unlimited, 2 difficulties for all, etc. It probably has the most polished stuff packed into it since Futari.

[Special World]

Yeah, boost mode is what was making me reconsider. Really easy, accessible scoring system with a lot of eye candy. I consider the normal game pretty punishing, but boost mode ain't like that. To be honest, I kind of knew you guys would say "what were you thinking!?" for me putting DU2 in there over Crimzon Clover. But you gotta trust your gut, even when your gut is supporting a game that has grazing as a scoring mechanic (ew!). Sometimes guts are just a terrible burden.

[Special World]

Also I really wish it was Boos mode

I would love Boos mode

[Squire Grooktook]

Also I really wish it was Boos mode

I would love Boos mode

Wouldn't we all

[Special World]

One thing I was wondering—what do you guys consider to be "important factors" when recommending games to new players? Because for me, the list is almost too huge to make any sense out of.

Low price. Easy to find. Unlockable continues. Simple and satisfying scoring. Great graphics. 3D graphics. Chunky 2D sprites. One amazing game mode instead of a bunch of confusion options (think Akai Katana Shin—what the hell is the difference to a new player?). Easy to 1CC. Challenging and satisfying to 1CC. Great powerups. The list goes on.

A lot of the time people will be like "Oh, well this game is easy so new players will like it." But I've found in my own experience that's not true. Oftentimes, if a game is too easy I'm immediately bored. It's one of the reasons why I can't 1CC anything. Like, "Oh, I can get to stage 4 on one credit... I better be playing on baby mode right now." I think maybe the best attribute a game can have is if it just makes sense, if it's easily readable and immediately understandable. And that's one thing where a *lot* of modern STGs falter. They just don't make any sense; they don't read well. It's no surprise to me that Cave (maybe???) went under, because none of their newer games make any fucking sense. What is the last Cave game that made sense? I have no idea.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Most (all of 'em?) shmups I like, I liked first time I played them, so a good first impression is where it's at. Raiden III in particular had FAST bullets (faster than your average bullet hell's early stages), none of the rose petals/pink snow curtain prelevant nowadays, no poorly drawn artwork and it was darn self-explanatory to anyone who's played video games for at least a decade (even my favourite Cave shmup Dangun Feveron has a pretty obscure system if you don't expect a shmup to be like that).

As for cheapness, although it's not scrolling, Geometry Wars Galaxies (already a collection of two games) for Wii comes with a downloadable DS port of the original Geometry Wars.

[Weak Boson]

Score Rush is a good mention - but you could also mention that there's a free to play version on PC with online multiplayer. https://ga.me/games/scorerush-mp

I do think Crimzon Clover has to be there too. My opinion is that a good game for beginners is just one that's really fun.

[Squire Grooktook]

One thing I was wondering—what do you guys consider to be "important factors" when recommending games to new players? Because for me, the list is almost too huge to make any sense out of.

Low price. Easy to find. Unlockable continues. Simple and satisfying scoring. Great graphics. 3D graphics. Chunky 2D sprites. One amazing game mode instead of a bunch of confusion options (think Akai Katana Shin—what the hell is the difference to a new player?). Easy to 1CC. Challenging and satisfying to 1CC. Great powerups. The list goes on.

I think it varies from person to person, even on the "casual" level. Some people like a particular kind of presentation (and that could be of any kind, a lot of people would flock to something anime styled while a lot of other people would regard it with aversion), and some people don't care about presentation at all. Some people get bored if the beginning is too easy, and some people are intimidated by an immediate challenge, etc.

Based on that, I think the best games would be the ones that offer a wealth of content, for everyone to enjoy. Mushi Futari and it's 3 modes, arranges, and novice modes. Crimzon Clover seems to be popular with newcomer too for the same reason. I imagine Raiden Fighters Aces would work similarly well due to the 3 games and wealth of player ships to choose from.

[Tim James]

I didn't enjoy CRS68K until after I spent enough time with Jamestown to learn to appreciate the genre. It was too hard and there's no autofire. It's free and it's a cool novelty but it's not what I'd recommend to someone unless they just wanted to goof around for a bit.

I always suggest Jamestown for someone who doesn't care about the genre and may never get into it. The "wacky" story, Western graphics, and multiple game modes and difficulties make it pretty easy to suck in even random Call of Duty bros, though I've never personally tried to convert anyone that mainstream.

I suggest Crimzon Clover for people who want to dive straight into a bona fide arcade shooter. Novice mode is perfectly balanced.

[Special World]

It seems like my PC section is entirely underwhelming, haha. I think the problem is probably that I have little enthusiasm for playing on PC, so I don't have quite the depth of knowledge/feeling for them that I do for console shooters. I really enjoy Cho Ren Sha and Alltynex Second, but I think those are all I'm driven to play on PC. So when I approached the article from the perspective of "Well, I have to like it myself to be able to recommend it," that maybe led to some picks that other people wouldn't have made. For instance, Jamestown I can recognize as a "good for new players" shooter... but I don't actually care for it. Crimzon Clover I'm aware is many people's holy grail, but while I like it in theory, nothing about the game really gets my blood pumping, and to me it's much too hardcore to recommend to new players (novice mode is more accessible for sure, but I think just about anybody will balk at playing a "novice" setting—gamers are too used to mainstream games where "easy" is just an insult). And something like rRootage, which I've heard many non-shooter players say they love, is just endlessly boring to me.

Compound this with the issue that I believe every "curated list" should be the honest opinion of the person who posted it, and more problems arise. You might not agree with this—after all, isn't it best for a beginner list to put forward games that beginners tend to actually like? Well, maybe. But I've read gaming press for far too long to accept that "group decision" is the best option. After all, that's how you end up with lists where Asteroids and Galaga are of tantamount importance, or a sort of internet-wide groupthink where Sine Mora and Ikaruga are the only shooters that matter.

But I do consider my PC section the weakest. Cho Ren Sha is great, but it has sound and video problems, and I can believe the mindset that it takes a fuller understanding of the genre to accept a comparatively basic shooter. Alltynex Second is one of those expansive games that shows shooters can be more than just "shoot things, get points," but is it maybe too visually plain or too structurally complicated to recommend? Danmaku Unlimited 2 is, I think, a great beginner game, but I actually don't have a ton of passion for it. I play it every once in a long while because it's simple and straightforward (it'd be better without the scoring system, honestly) and the soundtrack works well for it.

So I'm gonna think about changing my PC picks and shuffling them around, but we'll see. Hopefully you guys continue to have input. I also wanted to maybe make a 3DS list, but I think that would end up being "here are literally the only shooters you can get for 3DS." In that regard, PS4 is basically out of the question.

[Squire Grooktook]

Personally I think CRS68k and Alltynex are fantastic recommendations. Jamestown is a good spectacle, but I personally find the level and pattern design to be far too bland to win too many people over. I like some aspects of DU2 (a few boss patterns and level design elements), but I'd definitely swap it out with CC. Especially since CRS68k/Alltynex/CC would form a nice little "holy trinity" of manic, weird, and traditional danmaku.

CRS68K doesn't seem that bad to me, in terms of getting it to run. I never experienced anything more then audio hiccups before I switched the compatability mode (as easy as right clicking and choosing an option), and never experienced them again after doing so. It's also tied as my favorite stg. Do not insult it in my presence.

[eebrozgi]

Just adding to the discussion regarding CRS68k, it was one of the games that I got into the genre with, and I appreciated it even as a total newbie. It was hard but completely straightforward and it has a great soundtrack. Never cared too much about the autofire and background complaints personally, I can understand them though. It is THE shmup that I recommend to pretty much anyone since it's also freeware.

Also, got to playing ALLTYNEX Second recently, and I really like the game, but I'm not sure if I would go around recommending it to everyone as an entry game. The crazy 3D camera madness gets in the way of readability a bit and I was massively confused with the default button settings on my first credit, where pressing 1+2 counts as pressing 3 and the order matters and what did I shoot now oh my god

[Obiwanshinobi]

How about Hydorah? First - not just horizontal, but any direction - scrolling shmup since Gradius Advance/Galaxies that, on a cab, wouldn't look like a poor cousin displayed next to any arcade classic.*) If the gameplay was no good and it cost money, presentation alone wouldn't warrant a recommendation, but my first impression it made wasn't bad either.

*) Some will say Under Defeat's presentation is no less compromising in its own way, but I beg to differ (the cow animation is awkward and the smoke following horizontal scroll makes no more sense than bullets doing the same).

[Special World]

Hm... I'll think about revising the PC section a bit before my semester starts next week. I think I'll probably replace Danmaku Unlimited 2 with Crimzon Clover, as that's what I was thinking of doing in the first place. I really don't like when reviewers assume what I'll like or not like, so I guess I should not assume that new players will like DU2 more than CC:WI (even though I don't like it more myself). I remember really liking Hydorah, so I'm gonna give it some playtime and probably add it to the Also Try list.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Blast Works paragraph is a bit misleading: the editing tool was meant to be its selling point (arguably the main "game"). A reader could be forgiven for suspecting the writer of not having tried it out at all.

[Special World]

That may be the premise of the game, but I'd argue that's not the irresistible premise of the game. Personally I thought the game itself was unique and fun and the editor was kind of not worth messing with much.

[Squire Grooktook]

It's fun either way, but the editor is really good once you get the hang of it. Doesn't beat learning to code obviously, but it's a good way to get some ideas off the ground.

Also Tumiki Fighters is fucking great.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Well, if you want to give the readers impression you played games you're talking about, "it's cheap and it's a game" sounds a bit short for that.

[Tim James]

For fun I did a quick survey of the Steam forums and reviews for Jamestown. A lot of people seemed surprised and excited that they liked it so much, indicating that they had little prior experience with shmups. But there were only a couple of threads asking for more games like it, and not many suggestions for hardcore shooters.

This is completely unscientific but I still think it deserves a special mention for people who might never get that far into the genre.

[Squire Grooktook]

For fun I did a quick survey of the Steam forums and reviews for Jamestown. A lot of people seemed surprised and excited that they liked it so much, indicating that they had little prior experience with shmups. But there were only a couple of threads asking for more games like it, and not many suggestions for hardcore shooters.

This is completely unscientific but I still think it deserves a special mention for people who might never get that far into the genre.

My experience with Jamestown is that a lot of my non-shmup friends like it...for the presentation.

They play it, and think fondly of it, but it doesn't provoke them to play any other shmups.

I wouldn't call it a gateway shmup based on that.

Spoiler

Personally I think Jamestown has some good ideas, but mostly falls short of greatness thanks to relatively bland level and boss design. It's really all about the multiplayer. As a single player game, I can see that it wouldn't compel anyone to play more shmups because it's gameplay is just not that standout IMO.

[Stevens]

I would compare Jamestown to Gauntlet - Both are a lot of fun to play with 2-4 people, kind of misses the mark if you're playing alone.

[Tim James]

I wouldn't call [Jamestown] a gateway shmup based on that.

It was a gateway shmup for me, but I can accept that others are different.

And weird. And dumb. Etc.

[Obiwanshinobi]

I wouldn't know the reason why, but Warblade 2 player is certain non-shmuppers' party game of choice. I also watched them play Counter Strike, Pinball FX and the original Mortal Kombat on MAME in party situations. There wasn't much chemistry between me and them in this regard (they would credit-feed through any co-op arcade game when played with me).