VGA to YUV transcoder vs VGA to HDMI upscaler?

[cr4zymanz0r]

My main concern is input lag.

I know a VGA to YUV/Component transcoder would not introduce lag and would be at the mercy of my HDTV (I can't notice lag on my Samsung HDTV on component native systems such as PS2). However, it seems like these are $100+ (particularly for any known to be of good quality).

Then there's cheap VGA to HDMI upscalers such as this http://www.amazon.com/dp/B006JW6L7O/
I assume the image will look fine, but having never dealt with any no-name whatever-to-HDMI upscaler, I'm suspicious that it's not taking gaming into a account and will have input lag issues.

The cheapest option would be preferred if it works well. Anybody have any experiences to share?

[Fudoh]

Then there's cheap VGA to HDMI upscalers

these are no upscalers, just mere A/D converters. They're lag free.

[cr4zymanz0r]

Then there's cheap VGA to HDMI upscalers

these are no upscalers, just mere A/D converters. They're lag free.

Oh really? I assumed nearly all analog-whatever to HDMI converters also upscaled. I might have to grab one if they truly are lag free. Sounds too good to be true

[FinalBaton]

Then there's cheap VGA to HDMI upscalers

these are no upscalers, just mere A/D converters. They're lag free.

Oh really? I assumed nearly all analog-whatever to HDMI converters also upscaled. I might have to grab one if they truly are lag free. Sounds too good to be true

"The VGA to HDMI format converter converts analog PC RGBHV and audio signal to digital HDMI format. It allows you to connect the analog HD-15 RGBHV output from PC to the digital HDMI input of the latest HD ready plasma, LCD or DLP TV. Its high bandwidth capability supports a wide range of PC and HDTV resolutions. Package: 1 x VGA to HDMI HD Video 1080P Converter Box Adapter 1 x Power Adapter (US Version) 1 x Manual"

The bolded part worries me, make it sound like it could upscale... Fudoh are you certain that this model doesn't upscale?

Did research on it as best as I could but since there's no model number anywhere, it's kinda hard. Couldn't find a more extensive product description.
Maybe someone who has it could confirm if it's purely a transcoder.

If not, this one should do, says in the description that it doesn't upscale :
http://orei.com/index.php/orei-xd-m345- ... apter.html

[BazookaBen]

The only thing I'm wondering about is added lag from digitizing the signal and scaling it separately, vs doing it all at the same time when you use the TV's component input

[Fudoh]

The bolded part worries me, make it sound like it could upscale... Fudoh are you certain that this model doesn't upscale?

you mean that $16 box from Amazon ? Doesn't scale. I got one of those.

[FinalBaton]

The bolded part worries me, make it sound like it could upscale... Fudoh are you certain that this model doesn't upscale?

you mean that $16 box from Amazon ? Doesn't scale. I got one of those.

Excellent then. That's a very cheap option for us who don't have VGA ports on our tv

[FinalBaton]

The bolded part worries me, make it sound like it could upscale... Fudoh are you certain that this model doesn't upscale?

you mean that $16 box from Amazon ? Doesn't scale. I got one of those.

Does it do a good job?

[Fudoh]

Just as good as native VGA input on your TV.

Meaning: it doesn't handle 15khz signals and it won't fully resolve SMPTE resolutions (720x480 is seen and sampled as 640x480).

[FinalBaton]

Just as good as native VGA input on your TV.

Meaning: it doesn't handle 15khz signals and it won't fully resolve SMPTE resolutions (720x480 is seen and sampled as 640x480).

Nice.
I plan on using it on an XRGB-3 VGA output, using B1 mode.

[Fudoh]

It's not perfect, but it's ok. The XRGB-3's output timing is also 720x480 instead of true VGA, but on low-res titles it's not this important.

[FinalBaton]

Cool. What would the flaws be in the 15$ converter? compared to a reference one?
And what would the reference be for such converters?

[Fudoh]

They're all the same, you if you went VGA to component first and then component to HDMI, then you'd get the full resolution.

[FinalBaton]

They're all the same, you if you went VGA to component first and then component to HDMI, then you'd get the full resolution.

And I tink I read here before that good VGA to component converters are more expensive than VGA to HDMI converters. Is this correct?

(trying to decide if I should go VGA to HDMI or VGA to component)

[Fudoh]

roughly $110 compared to less than $20.

[FinalBaton]

roughly $110 compared to less than $20.

Oh!

The VGA to HDMI route becomes very interesting then

Thanks for all the info Fudoh!

[telemetry]

I see two models on that Amazon page: the unlabelled "Orei" with no model-number, and the "premium" Orei XD-600.

However the original item (unlabelled) merely says "supports a range of PC and HDTV resolutions", whereas the XD-600 fine print clearly says "Upscales VGA to HDMI 720p or 1080p".

Seems like the cheaper model is the one to get.

[FinalBaton]

I see two models on that Amazon page: the unlabelled "Orei" with no model-number, and the "premium" Orei XD-600.

However the original item (unlabelled) merely says "supports a range of PC and HDTV resolutions", whereas the XD-600 fine print clearly says "Upscales VGA to HDMI 720p or 1080p".

Seems like the cheaper model is the one to get.

Definitely!

[cr4zymanz0r]

Well, I got the cheap VGA to HDMI converter in from Amazon and....eh.

It doesn't feel like there's any lag to me, but I've noticed some other issues. My gameroom HDTV is a Samsung that has VGA and HDMI. My XRGB-3, XPC-4, and Dreamcast work fine via VGA. I bought this adapter so that when I get a bigger TV in the future, I'll be able to plug VGA devices into HDMI since newer TVs don't have VGA.

1.) XRGB-3 (in upscaling mode. Haven't tried line doubling mode yet) and XPC-4 work fine with the adapter on my TV, but the image is shifted to the right by (me guessing) 20 or so pixels. For instance, when playing NES games through the XRGB-3 on VGA I'd notice the solid cover overscan area on the left side of the screen. When using the VGA to HDMI adapter, that solid color overscan area was noticeable larger. I haven't compared enough yet to determine if it's cutting anything off the right side or the screen or if it's slightly squashing the image.

2.) Dreamcast did not work at all on my TV with the adapter. I got sound and a static completely garbled image despite it working with VGA, and the TV detected 640x480 @ 60hz on VGA and HDMI with the adapter. However, I got out spare PC monitor with HDMI and it worked on there. It still had the image shifting issue noted above though.

[Fudoh]

My gameroom HDTV is a Samsung that has VGA and HDMI. My XRGB-3, XPC-4

with this kind of setup you might want to get something better.
You know - by the way - that your XPC-4 acts as a VGA to DVI converter, right ? DC > XPC (1080p) > TV looks amazing.

The problem with your DC is caused by the DC VGA box. It probably doesn't have any components to bring down the RGB levels to proper consumer levels.

[cr4zymanz0r]

My gameroom HDTV is a Samsung that has VGA and HDMI. My XRGB-3, XPC-4

with this kind of setup you might want to get something better.
You know - by the way - that your XPC-4 acts as a VGA to DVI converter, right ? DC > XPC (1080p) > TV looks amazing.

The problem with your DC is caused by the DC VGA box. It probably doesn't have any components to bring down the RGB levels to proper consumer levels.

I guess I never completely thought about going that route, but then I'd need a device that combines DVI and audio into HDMI, since a simple DVI to HDMI cable isn't going to route the audio to my TV.

Let me ask you this Fudoh. Do you think there'd be any issues with this setup:

DC and XRGB-3 (in line-doubling mode) to VGA switchbox to XPC-4 to DVI + audio combining device to HDMI to TV?

I know the XRGB-3 also has DVI out, but if I could route it through the XPC-4 that would simplify the hookups.

[Fudoh]

I guess I never completely thought about going that route, but then I'd need a device that combines DVI and audio into HDMI, since a simple DVI to HDMI cable isn't going to route the audio to my TV.

your TV is likely going to have some kind of audio input that can be associated with one of the HDMI inputs. Almost all TVs do.

DC and XRGB-3 (in line-doubling mode) to VGA switchbox to XPC-4 to DVI + audio combining device to HDMI to TV?

certainly works.

[telemetry]

Well, I got the cheap VGA to HDMI converter in from Amazon and....eh.

1.) XRGB-3 (in upscaling mode. Haven't tried line doubling mode yet) and XPC-4 work fine with the adapter on my TV, but the image is shifted to the right by (me guessing) 20 or so pixels. For instance, when playing NES games through the XRGB-3 on VGA I'd notice the solid cover overscan area on the left side of the screen. When using the VGA to HDMI adapter, that solid color overscan area was noticeable larger. I haven't compared enough yet to determine if it's cutting anything off the right side or the screen or if it's slightly squashing the image.

I had this same problem with my VP30+SLG...when set to 480p output, the image was shifted right by 20-30 pixels. I could re-center this with the VP30 H-shift offset at -30 (seemed about right), but the VP30 doesn't remember the setting between restarts...definitely a pain.

Maybe that has something to do with the 720x480p sampled as 640x480? Just thinking maybe there was a ~30 pixel area on each side...

For $15 it was an interesting experiment, but for adding SLG+VGA input into my TV I'll look for something a little higher quality.

[Xyga]

your TV is likely going to have some kind of audio input that can be associated with one of the HDMI inputs. Almost all TVs do.

I've never seen even one that do, this must be very brand/series and even 'era' dependent (?)