Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[Squire Grooktook]

It's only weakness imo is it doesn't have the top notch arcade level challenge of x86, and the last stage is rather disappointing (recycled corridors with a few gimmicks, then a boss rush. In fact I might argue that the first 4 stages are perfectly "meat and potatoes" while the last two stages are a little too gimmicky). Still though, it's one of the few games where I find graceful play (speed through levels and bosses as fast as possible while taking as little damage as possible) to be as compelling and replay demanding as any scoring system.

How on earth can you call the Leaning Tower of Pisa's "Mode 7 without Mode 7 showoff"/"repeat the exact same series of jumps 500 times" section "perfectly 'meat and potatoes'"?

Roughly 20 seconds of moving up the "stairs" formation with enemies coming at you from different angles/timings. Roughly 10 seconds of the vertical formation (the platforms here are much more erratic here so the "exact same jump" isn't applicable) with the same enemies. Than 10 more seconds of the "stair" formation. So about 40 seconds out of a 5-7 minute stage? The brunt of Bloodlines first 4 stages are platforming + enemy placement that demands mastery of your chosen characters moveset.

[Obscura]

You're forgetting about the "tilting blue tower with the Medusa heads". And the copy-paste vertical pole-vaults on LeCarde's path.

Bloodlines stage 3 is one of the worst in the history of the series.

EDIT: Also, I forgot to mention this earlier, but good lord Bloodlines bosses that aren't Queen of Moss suck.

[Squire Grooktook]

You're forgetting about the "tilting blue tower with the Medusa heads".

60 seconds with medusa heads and varied platform placement, not to mention candles (and a 1up!) encouraging some more risky action.

And the copy-paste vertical pole-vaults on LeCarde's path.

About 10-20 seconds long at most.

Plus it's got the harpies, one of my favorite enemies due to their unpredictable aggression (never quite know when their going to attack) and habit of swarming around you. While it's visually copy and pasted, the weirdly placed walls and asymmetrical left/right tilt of the floors ensure you're not quite easy going through. I actually love that part of the stage, especially when you're trying to do a super cool speed clear and try rushing through as fast as possible before the Harpies swarm you. Intense as fuck.

Bloodlines stage 3 is one of the worst in the history of the series.

It's actually one of my favorites =3




*edit*

EDIT: Also, I forgot to mention this earlier, but good lord Bloodlines bosses that aren't Queen of Moss suck.

I have a few complaints with them but disagree overall.

Stage 1 boss: Pretty excellent and what the rest should be. Pretty random, nice fast variety of offensive attacks, and forces you to space around him and the rooms layout carefully. Everything a CV boss should be.

Stage 2 boss: Not quite as good, but very fun thanks to the tricky rng rocks and the occasional need to jump to hit him (finding a window between the rocks and his erratic movement towards and away from you makes it pretty fun).

Stage 3 boss: A little bit too static for my tastes, but getting into the rythum of hitting him every time for an speed kill (topped off with i-framing through his last phase jumps) is endlessly satisfying.

Stage 4 boss: Weakest of the bunch by far. Too easy to dodge, annoying hitboxes, and takes way too long. Still some fun to be had in speed killing him though.

Stage 5 boss: A bit too static once again (only thing that's random, as far as I can tell, is whether she will cancel out of her "lunge" or not, which throws off my perfect corner trap speed kill sometimes). Still fun, and has one of the most wicked fun speed kill strats in the game.

Stage 6 bosses: What happened? Too static. Like I'm suddenly fighting the weaker bosses in Hard Corps. Bartley herself takes the cake for being a painfully slow puzzle boss. Death and Dracula however do have some very fun speed kill strats, despite how weak they are otherwise.

So in short, a bit of a mixed bag. Too static or too easy to dodge at points, but going for a "high score" in no damage speed killing everything is endlessly entertaining. Good fun though not perfect.

[Obscura]

What part of Bartley even qualifies as a "puzzle boss"? You walk back and forth and smack her. She's a glorified version of the pathetic water mage midboss from stage 2.

Speaking of stage 2 boss, try bringing an axe to that fight sometime. And then prepare to laugh your ass off.

[BIL]

Bloodlines stage 3 is one of the worst in the history of the series.

Bloodlines' st2 and st3 autoscrollers are perfectly forgiveable in the context of the game's other 95%, the pace of which leaves the rest of the traditional series standing. Even without considering the speedkilling angle of its powerup mode Squire covered. Bloodlines is a chainsaw massacre like nothing in the traditional series. Not all of its bosses are hits but generally I don't see them for very long before they explode and I'm on my way, Bartley being the game's only real gaffe.

re the notion of XX being "meat and potatoes" by comparison - that distinction goes to X68k. Bloodlines and Rondo aren't as fastidiously committed to the original, but neither are they arthritically plodding, nonsensically designed and fundamentally tatty.

I like XX's halting, occasionally successful attempt at no-nonsense Dracula via a misbegotten Rondo hack as much as the next guy, but let's not overdo it!

[Obscura]

re the notion of XX being "meat and potatoes" by comparison - that distinction goes to X68k.

Agreed. Like I said, X68K is probably not just the best 16 bit Castlevania, but the best Castlevania, period. I'd say that XX is the second best 16-bit CV and 4th best overall (behind X68K, 3, and 1).

I still don't see XX as plodding or nonsensical; it's never felt "too slow" for me (well, aside from the Necromancer's insane slowdown, I'll give you that one), and I just don't get the "nonsensical".

[BIL]

Nonsensical is the kindest way I can describe the key dungeon* as well as the game barring me from a chunk of its advanced stages and bosses unless I flunk out of that neat little pillar hop and bend over for the bad end. There's some things I just don't do.

Then there's Rondo's earlier bosses being plonked into XX's later game - st1 Serpent inexplicably stinking up an otherwise brilliant st5', and although I really like him, what's st2's Werewolf doing in the Bad End equivalent? And why was Rondo's Dullahan CTRL+Vd into st3's massive empty room where he can't hit you even if you weren't being forced to use the key?

Slowdown is A-OK by me, but god damn do I hate that sludgy walk speed that XX and Dracula Densetsu II inexplicably suffer from. I don't know who had the bright idea that traditional Dracula = slow movement but they're (to borrow Patchy's terminology again) liars. Compare the scrolling speed of the original and all of its sequels, it's brisk. I feel like I'm constantly fighting against the trudge in XX, and to be fair it's a problem that dissipates as the game proceeds since later stages have less empty corridors, more battlegrounds (as in the excellent sunken city and superior clock tower).

*I can totally dig off-kilter, game-breaking lunacy of the sort that ensues there, I'm just not convinced it was intentional.

[Squire Grooktook]

Bartley is only a puzzle in that it takes a moment for players to figure out her defensive strategy before the fight becomes a snorefest. No argument here that that fight sucks utterly.

Speaking of stage 2 boss, try bringing an axe to that fight sometime. And then prepare to laugh your ass off.

What, you think I devised an elaborate corner-trap strategy against the Moth Queen but never tried bringing an axe or a super sub weapon to the stone fight

That's actually another great example of a speed kill. Pummeling his eye with Sub-Weapon-Crash on the way down from the raft, and then jumping like crazy to axe his eye to death while rng rocks rain down on you is hella fun. Thanks for proving my point about why the game is so amazing.

x68 really tops off the classic franchise, but if I have one regret, it's that we never got a Bloodlines 2 to bring x68's arcade-level difficulty (and perhaps a slightly better final stage) to the games more fast paced and aggressive take on CV.

[Ed Oscuro]

Nonsensical is the kindest way I can describe the key dungeon* as well as the game barring me from a chunk of its advanced stages and bosses unless I flunk out of that neat little pillar hop and bend over for the bad end. There's some things I just don't do.

This, a million times. You pays your money and takes your chances; nobody's a chump for selecting Eric in Bloodlines, or even in VK.

I do agree that the Leaning Tower stage in Bloodlines isn't the biggest hit - but you can view it as just a relatively short experiment. Elizabeth Barthory is an outright failure, but again doesn't take that long. It certainly seems more appealing than the lego-built opening of Wih Castrevania with all its AoS-style overdone tileset.

And again a note on Dracula XX movement speed: It seems very similar to Rondo. Rondo's overall animation speed looks good, but Richta glides along. Dracula XX Rikuta's feet solidly push off the ground, at the cost of looking like a jogger with short legs.

[Squire Grooktook]

Heheh, speaking of Eric:

Here's something I whipped up real quick to show how fun speed killing can be Bloodlines. These strats never get old for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtRB91SGJMY

Warning: Does not actually feature Dracula or all the bosses. My strat against his Drac's last form is incredibly fun, but I'm lazy and decided to save it for when I actually record a playthrough.

[BIL]

Spoiler

Dracula MD is such a MURDA_SIM

Never seen the low attack used aggressively like that! With John I usually boot 'em in the grill + chuck a subweapon for good measure.

And again a note on Dracula XX movement speed: It seems very similar to Rondo. Rondo's overall animation speed looks good, but Richta glides along. Dracula XX Rikuta's feet solidly push off the ground, at the cost of looking like a jogger with short legs.

Although I've only eyeballed it so far (no testing equipment sadly), it feels to me like XX's scrolling speed is slow compared to Rondo (and IV on the same system) too. I used to wonder if it might be some bizarre emulation issue with the SFC's skinny native res, but the real deal on a vanilla CRT feels about the same.

Raiden III effect I guess. Maybe it's all in my head. >_>

Maybe what I perceive to be Dracula XX is actually a Halloween-themed Korean porno VHS I picked up at the gas station. SFC boxes have roughly similar dimensions after all.

[Squire Grooktook]

Them some tight links on the minotaurs for sure. There's a similar trick where you can stunlock the knights in Versailles hallway (right before the illusion pillar battle), but linking the jabs is super tight and if you fail they bring the axe down on your head lol.

Raiden III effect I guess. Maybe it's all in my head. >_>

It's definitely a curious subject of how screen resolution, scrolling style, animation, etc. effects the sense of speed in a game, particularly on the MC move speed.

For example, Guwange's (un-focused) movement always felt so smooth to me for some reason, like it was just the perfect speed. I have to wonder if it's not just the smoothness of the animation pulling tricks on my brain. The move speed in Rayforce also feels distinctly different when horizontal screen scrolling locks (feels faster when it locks, which is odd because I usually have the opposite experience with shmups).

I'd be willing to bet it's a very subtle difference, none the less (I'd also be willing to bet Rondo Richter probably moves very slightly faster). There's still no mercy for Raiden III or Dracula XX in my mind!

[BIL]

Oh yeah, I always considered Rondo vs XX speed a straw/camel's back situation. If the former were a hair slower I'm sure it'd bother me too. All the traditional games' "Simon" characters feel about this way to me, with the exception of outright quick Bloodlines where even John's slower walk is still damn nippy.

Incidentally, went looking for more good GB action games last month. Decided to give Dracula Densetsu another look, since I'd recently tried out the first Nemesis and found it easily as good as its sequel.

Never again.

I liked DD1 enough to loop it several times as a kid on vacation, and it does still have some decent platform/action once you hit stage 3, but good god damn. Game is paralytically slow, even when it's not actually slowing down. Felt like I was dying.

(also, Battle of the Holy is one of the series' best tunes ever with Revenge not far behind. >_< )

[Squire Grooktook]

(also, Battle of the Holy is one of the series' best tunes ever with Revenge not far behind. >_< )

I'm also quite fond of Death Fair. CV: Adventure Rebirth also has some amazing tracks (perhaps the best of which was unused), on top of being a fantastic arcade tough game on hard mode.

[Austin]

You're forgetting about the "tilting blue tower with the Medusa heads". And the copy-paste vertical pole-vaults on LeCarde's path.

Bloodlines stage 3 is one of the worst in the history of the series.

I don't know what you are smoking man, but whatever it is, it must not be very good.

[Ed Oscuro]

Raiden III effect I guess. Maybe it's all in my head. >_>

Maybe what I perceive to be Dracula XX is actually a Halloween-themed Korean porno VHS I picked up at the gas station. SFC boxes have roughly similar dimensions after all.

Well, ultimately that's what it's all about, right?

My "jogger with short legs" remark doesn't really capture the feeling of how SFC Richter gets so damn little done for so much effort. I don't mind that snappy feeling of response to d-pad inputs, but for long treks it still does look pretty comical.

[BIL]

I prefer to think he's been training with ankle weights like Sendo from Hajime no Ippo, but he was so startled by that popup Akumajo in the intro he forgot to take 'em off. ^_~



Whoaaaaaa!

[Ed Oscuro]

Maybe Coach-On-Bicycle just gave Richter's leash a sharp tug. "Ain't no time for that little Richta! You gotta train for the prize fight!"

[dojo_b]

For me the worst part about Dracula X SNES is not the slow walking (I jump along when I can, which in defiance of all gaming tradition seems to speed you up considerably).

It's the ludicrously bright, peppy, repetitive Stage 5 music. It's something out of an aerobics video. And when Belmont is making his way through the well-appointed yet claustrophobic, also over-bright interior halls, and is fighting repetitive fights against green and purple knights (which in better circumstances are fun enemies), well the whole thing becomes revolting. It's like a personal hell---not an awesome platforming-hell a la Holy Diver and its ilk, but a place where lost souls wander in sadness and confusion (echoes of Twin Peaks' Red Room).

Here, if you care to see what I mean. I put up with all kinds of poor aesthetic choices in games, but somehow this one really makes me feel unwell.

[Obiwanshinobi]

For me the worst part about Dracula X SNES is not the slow walking (I jump along when I can, which in defiance of all gaming tradition seems to speed you up considerably).

Games where jumping speeds you up are pretty common (Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance comes to mind and I think many first person shooters*) do that, too). Actually, isn't it just the way Super Mario Bros. game engine works?

*) I read "skiing" was considered an exploit in Starsiege: Tribes, then embraced by game designers in Tribes 2.

[dojo_b]

Games where jumping speeds you up are pretty common (Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance comes to mind and I think many first person shooters*) do that, too). Actually, isn't it just the way Super Mario Bros. game engine works?

Pretty sure not from my experience with at least SMB1/3. One can consult good speedruns; most of the 2D platformers for which I've watched 'em don't seem to be filled with jumps. Speed is rewarded in many games, so it's natural to not want to encourage ridiculous jumping behavior.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Most real-time action games depict characters more athletic than we are in the real world. Truth is, for a fit bipedal creature, jumping is the fastest way to spring forward. If our bodies on Earth could sustain it, we'd be doing it all the time. When walking on the moon will be cheaper and safer, I predict that we shall.

[Ed Oscuro]

Wow, that guy item crashes (the Drac X Stage 5 vid) so many times to kill a lowly spear knight...shoulda just tossed the axes. 30 hearts, probably not faster. Or does Richter not throw them far enough?

That is a pretty weird level design, but Op 13 always seems to be played in places like that. Weird wood paneling and gaslight fixtures - almost semi-appropriate for the time period, but not really. Ends up looking cheap rather than impressive, as intended. I didn't encounter that area on my recent playthrough, thankfully

TASvideos says about SMB:
(http://tasvideos.org/GameResources/NES/ ... oBros.html)

Accelerating faster (SMB1, SMB2j except with Luigi)
When you need to accelerate from zero speed, you can do it faster if you jump a small jump backwards and steer to the opposite direction Mario is facing. This can be used to start a level faster, to accelerate faster after exiting a pipe and to complete a walljump faster.

Press "left" and "right" for 1 frame. Press the "A"-button for 1 frame to make a small jump to the right. Start holding the "B"-button. When landing on the ground you will need to face backwards for one frame (without holding the "B"-button). The next frame you can start jumping again, holding the "B"-button and you will have gained running speed.

Dang SMB, you primitive. So many gud strats get their start here. Walljumping!

Of course you can also just hold the fire button when moving for greater speed.

[Squire Grooktook]

I love Opus 13 ;_;

[BIL]

Backflipping constantly would be the fastest mode of travel in XX, but I refuse to do any of that stuff. :/ Kills the vibe!

And the copy-paste vertical pole-vaults on LeCarde's path.

Whoa, wait a sec - I thought this referred to the second and final autoscroller before the boss. Eric's vertical bit earlier is a blast. It's infested with tough, RNG-crazed Harpies who'll swoop in to wreck your POW in the blink of an eye, and like all Bloodlines enemies are meaty as fuck to slaughter en masse. Not seeing the problem. Copy/paste? lmao.



I don't mind XX's green armour halls, but then I love they and the Pikemen's subweapon-countering footsie game. Cramming in all five whip strikes with a minimum of retreats is good simple fun, given how hard you'll get hit if you push them too far. Too bad Rondo's Armour Lords, the ultimate footsie exponents, are AWOL like so much other cool CD-ROMtastic stuff. I also love the platforming segments with those crumbling footholds and lots of meddling ravens.

Not that I get to see XX st5 often anyway since it's BAD END ONRY. :[ Dracula XX: when it's bad, it's a fucken hack. When it's good, it's good! st5 is both at the same time >__< (lol infinite wallmeat, catering bill through the roof!)

The hallway segments are actually taken from Rondo's mandatory final stage (clock tower), which I've always found a bit weaksauce overall*. XX's may be short but the tension of its Pikeman/Medusa/Bone Pillar-guarded elevator shaft is far superior to anything in the PCE game's, and XX's own clock tower of course nukes Rondo's from orbit. Made sense shunting the halls down a couple stages.

*though GHOST SHAFT and his new pals DEAD WYVERN (he frying without wings!) and DEAD BEHEMOTH (http://i.imgur.com/yxhUukR.jpg) are a great boss battle. And like most of Rondo's best bosses not in XX! wahhh!

I love Opus 13 ;_;

I know right? That song is the series' very definition of "sup motherfucker?" So jaunty, especially in Rondo's optional gauntlet stage. Then again XX doesn't have the knowingly goofy early 90s anime style, expertly done comic relief or general joie de vivre that makes songs like that and Cross A Fear work so well in its context. So I guess it might come across as a bit deranged in dour ol' XX.

This is how I feel striding along the marble bridge of Rondo st2' against a parallax BG of blue sky, fluffy white clouds and green forest with Cross A Fear blasting loud.

And this is me owning the Armour Lord Bros to Op.13!

[dojo_b]

That song is the series' very definition of "sup motherfucker?" So jaunty, especially in Rondo's optional gauntlet stage. Then again XX doesn't have the knowingly goofy early 90s anime style, expertly done comic relief or general joie de vivre that makes songs like that and Cross A Fear work so well in its context. So I guess it might come across as a bit deranged in dour ol' XX.

I am starting in on Rondo and I guess I can see what you mean. The anime really changes the tone. And maybe it's my continued suckage at XX Stage 5---the full expectation that I'll be back in these same monotonous windowless corridors again soon, facing the same mad cardio instructors in their spandex-colored armor---that drives the irritation over the top.


On a more positive note, I am loving Metal Storm. Getting to the point where a 1CC seems vaguely possible. In case anyone likes this game but hasn't tried the JP release, DO SO---and get yourself to stage 6, where the newly-introduced, ever-present laser beams make things so much more harrowing (in addition to beefed-up platform design). Picture this: A platform-jumping level where the platforms are constantly rising, and loop around from the bottom, but the upper and lower edges of the screen are deadly. To escape one needs not only to walk/jump briskly forward, but also to reverse gravity on many occasions and follow the platform undersides (with enemy harassment all the while).

While all the main stages feature intelligent double use of space, this one really keeps the fire burning under you. I suppose it's not so hard after enough practice, but I'm guessing the second loop will remedy that. Anyway, such a winning level format that it deserves to appear in more games, brazen copying or no.

[Imhotep]

I've been playing Actraiser 2 (SFC) these days, I've beaten hard mode today. Such a great game, the engine is really up to the challenge that hard mode provides. Aside from the tough but intuitive action I also love the outstanding presentation, based on Christian mythology, in all its details. I'm thinking this game is one of its generation's finest.

[Perikles]

ActRaiser 2 is also another example of a game that was made a lot harder in the US - you get fewer lives, enemies are more resilient (namely the mid-bosses), some platforms are missing (Gratis & Almethea), spikes are lethal, a couple of enemies sit in other positions (for example, there is one of those floating demon/lion faces in the Ice Palace that can be completely avoided by ducking in the SFC version, but in the US version he is lower on the screen which means that he will knock you off the crab if you just sit there ), the Tower of Babel/Souls is a lot harder etc. Not all of those changes were for the better I'd say (to give one glaring example: the fire-shooting "stick monsters" have 3 HP (that is one full bubble and a small one) in the SFC version which is anything but an arbitrary number; the gliding dive attack does three points of damage, thus allowing the player to instantly kill them. This is fairly important in Gratis since those creatures are located on small platforms with no space to move around - in the US version they have 4 HP which will probably result in a few hits due to touching the guys because one cannot kill them with the dive). I definitely think that it was wise to reduce the number of lives, though, three lives per act (two if played on Hard) should be more than enough to clear the game.

[BIL]

Oh wow, that doesn't sound good! I always thought SFC ARII's difficulty was absolutely pitch-perfect. Then again I've never tried the overseas version, so maybe it's not as severe as I'm thinking.

Metal Storm's FC stage 6 is amazing. Always kills me a couple times when it's been a while, it's pretty easy to panic and fly straight into crackling electric doom.

[Volteccer_Jack]

in the US version they have 4 HP

They have 5 HP in both versions if you're playing on Hard mode like a good boy