too close for comfort - black label

[nesrulz]

Replacing the files of 1.5 with bl and...

Thx, working.

Beautiful BL music.

btw...

Isn't DFK's BL tougher than the original?

That's right, DFK BL is tougher.

[Bananamatic]

Unless you own the PCB, you don't have the right to play the arcade games, just play the ports.

-input lag
-game randomly crashes when i try to start a credit, happens even multiple times per session
-missing BGM when i start practice from st5 midboss (happens almost more often than it doesn't)
-absolutely no 4:3 menu support, either 50% of the menus is visible or you use impossible to read wide mode
-menu controls get sometimes stuck
-online scoreboards are worthless as they don't even run on arcade rules
-weird ass glitches like the pause overlay being on while the game isn't paused and the other way around, forcing you to reset

at least we got an anime intro for 50% of the budget that everyone skips, aya hirano for another 30% and 50 cheat options that are only good for 5 minutes of hilarity

cave can eat my ass, whoever was in charge of this port should get waterboarded and i can't wait to emulate it instead

[system11]

It will run worse than the port, by a lot.

[Xyga]

I don't believe it.
Currently cv1k in MAME are far from bad aside from the wrong speed problem.
Nothing seems to miss on screen, stuttering is gone and sound's okay too, lag isn't as bad as, say, Garegga.
Someone get the speed issue fixed and that will give an ulcer to anti-cv1k emulation cultists (totally worth it. )

[trap15]

The input lag is much worse than Garegga, it's something in the ballpark of 3 frames for Futari. The sound quality and graphics quality is much worse than the ports.

[Xyga]

Not if you try in RA or GroovyMame with the proper features and settings, and image quality is only a matter of your choice of display and upscaling or shaders. Otherwise it's pretty much perfect, much better than the ports if you know how to use an emulator.

Get the speed fixed and BOOM ! CANCER !

But please go on, your misinformation campaign is working.

[trap15]

No, the input lag situation is built into the game. You're not going to lower it. It's 3 frames. Check with frame advance if you don't believe me. The graphics are by definition lower quality being 320x240 compared to the ports being at least 2x resolution. The music is all compressed to hell, check Espgaluda 2.

[Bananamatic]

meant good emulation obviously, not the current state that's only good as a demo if you want to grab the ports

almost forgot, st4 boss uses a weird opening pattern every single time in training mode on expert, one that doesn't even exist when you play a full credit
wouldn't be surprised if there was more stuff waiting to be discovered

Not if you try in RA or GroovyMame with the proper features and settings, and image quality is only a matter of your choice of display and upscaling or shaders. Otherwise it's pretty much perfect, much better than the ports if you know how to use an emulator.

But please go on, your misinformation campaign is working.

we're trying to play shmups here

No, the input lag situation is built into the game. You're not going to lower it. It's 3 frames. Check with frame advance if you don't believe me.

i thought futari had 2 frames of input lag on pcb? either way the futari port is literally perfect, no way in hell an emu with speedhacked slowdown is going to outdo it

[Xyga]

No, the input lag situation is built into the game. You're not going to lower it. It's 3 frames. Check with frame advance if you don't believe me.

Could be, I'll recheck them one by one if you want, but with frame_delay in GM or hard-gpu-sync, whatever these do the cv1k feel more responsive than Garegga.
And even if they're stuck at 3 frames, I wouldn't call that too bad and definitely not unplayable.

The graphics are by definition lower quality being 320x240 compared to the ports being at least 2x resolution.

That's not relevant at all, most of the ports have a basic if not fucked-up 2x scaling option with zooming option and lousy filters.
I can display a clearer image with any MAME build and much better control upscaling if I want, apply more and more advanced and convincing pixel shaders. No contest, the ports are far behind emulators already.
Plus the native 240p output is a big plus in a 15KHz emulation setup and you know it, it looks perfect like that and it's easy to get if you own a proper crt for that.

The music is all compressed to hell, check Espgaluda 2.

Don't care, not really listening to it while playing anyway so I don't notice the lossy compression.

Nothing you said here makes emulated cv1k games as horrible as you would like people to believe.
The only major problem is speed, and as you said yourself it's and easy fix so someone will soon do it anyway.
We're this close. DESPAIR.

we're trying to play shmups here

uh yeah of course, so i miss your point

[Bananamatic]

we're trying to play shmups here

uh yeah of course, so i miss your point

you consider 3 frames of input lag and highly questionable slowdown in exchange for (subjectively) slightly better graphics far ahead of lagless emulation with fairly accurate slowdown

[cave hermit]

So the DFK black label OST is the hypest shit.

[Bananamatic]

So the DFK black label OST is the hypest shit.

get the port, then you can set it to 1.5 and play the better game with the better soundtrack

[trap15]

That's not relevant at all, most of the ports have a basic if not fucked-up 2x scaling option with zooming option and lousy filters.
I can display a clearer image with any MAME build and much better control upscaling if I want, apply more and more advanced and convincing pixel shaders. No contest, the ports are far behind emulators already.

Uh, what? Are we living on the same planet? They crunched the graphics down on the PCB, so the port is literally higher resolution. In the cases where the graphics weren't crunched down, they re-rendered the resources. Literally the only port that is like that is MMP/PS.

[Xyga]

@Banana: Nope, I'm saying 3 frames isn't the end of the world and I want to double-check trap's statement on that.

If you consider how much display lag most people deal with playing the 360 on hdtvs and monitors, how many actually play on an unquestionably sub-1 frame display ?
Or you need a crt, for glorious 360 480i lol.

The fucked-up slowdown issue I'm not considering it, I want it gone, I wish for a decent fix for it, which trap said is definitely doable.

On the picture quality side I'll stand my ground, Futari may be the better example, but not all Cave ports look that good, far from it.
And if you had experienced the advanced crt shaders, you wouldn't say 'slightly'.

I'm just saying that persistence in saying cv1k emulation is horrible is exaggerated and biased because it's one step from being just as worth as the ports if not even more enjoyable as a whole.
Only a fool would choose MMP/PS on 360 over MAME once the speed issue is fixed. And if only for these two games, it's worth it.

@trap: oh well that's good to know, still, to me the pcbs on a normal 15Kh crt look much better than the ports, that's how I've discovered the games to begin, all looking gorgeous and I'm aiming at that kind of rendering.
Maybe you find the pcb's output ugly, well if so yeah we may not live on the same planet...

[IseeThings]

It used to be 10 years, no?

it's never been 10 years, even at the height of the NeoGeo stuff (which is the only time I've really felt it could have had a negative impact, because our emulation was near enough perfect) it was 3. The problem was aside from MAME nobody really cared about documenting/dumping things properly, once something was dumped there were hacks of hacks of hacks of it (mostly so the games would run in NeoRageX with it's buggy CPU cores and lack of support for encryption/protection) so it kinda made sense to document them, it could do no further damage than had already been done, and prevented history from being corrupted by all the emulator specific hacks.

Exceptions were made if a specific request came in to not support something, but that was rare.

[Dave_K.]

Only a fool would choose MMP/PS on 360 over MAME once the speed issue is fixed. And if only for these two games, it's worth it.

Those fools would be enjoying two extra Matsuri versions that will never be in Mame.

[Xyga]

Only a fool would choose MMP/PS on 360 over MAME once the speed issue is fixed. And if only for these two games, it's worth it.

Those fools would be enjoying two extra Matsuri versions that will never be in Mame.

Well that's perfect they can play those exclusive ports on the 360 then !
But if the original versions become decently emulated in MAME; why anyone would force himself to keep playing those on the 360 ?
I know not many people like the original PS but I'm one of them.

A pal visited once and we did comparisons on three different displays (good IPS + VA monitors & TV) 360 vs RA w/ crt-royale.
If we're talking about picture quality there was absolutely no contest.

BTW I went and checked several cv1k in RA w/ hard-gpu-sync and frame_delay 0
All show the same behavior: only 1 full frame is skipped.
The ship will either start moving on the first pressure or the second, then continue moving one in every two frames.
Actually very responsive as I remembered.
Mame's frame counter showing 100% with some hiccups from time-to-time, but that depends on which display I'm using.

[thetricker24]

I don't know why if emulation would be accurate it would make people stop buying ports.
Most of Shooting games players are very respectful, especially about CAVE...
For example, thinking about prometheus who only play on emulators, he bought some xbox360 ports without even owning a xbox360..
My favorite shooting game now is dodonpachi saidaioujou, I own the port and i will never sell it, but i would still love an accurate emulation of the original PCB... I had the chance to play with it while i was in Japan during sereval days, and let's being honest, a actual CV1K drivers with accurate slowdowns would be better than the laggy port... i LIKE this port, as a fan, and it's a MUST BUY, but I still check every months/weeks if a emulation of this game has been released.
By the way, mame always used to release rom at least 3 years after a game has been released.

[KAI]

Hypering at max rank in stage 4 is killing my cpu . Fucking hate mame, I better wait for the 360 emulation.

[Xyga]

But you'd need a monster cpu for a 360 emu... when a $100 or so Intel cpu can handle pretty much everything non-3D in MAME.

[cave hermit]

It's funny, DFK BL runs with almost no sound stutter despite how much shit is going on at once, yet MMP, Pink sweets, and Ibara all suffer from severe sound stutter at the title screen, the start of the first level, mini bosses, etc. despite how little is happening comparatively.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

That's not relevant at all, most of the ports have a basic if not fucked-up 2x scaling option with zooming option and lousy filters.
I can display a clearer image with any MAME build and much better control upscaling if I want, apply more and more advanced and convincing pixel shaders. No contest, the ports are far behind emulators already.

Uh, what? Are we living on the same planet? They crunched the graphics down on the PCB, so the port is literally higher resolution. In the cases where the graphics weren't crunched down, they re-rendered the resources. Literally the only port that is like that is MMP/PS.

The re-rendering of only certain graphics makes them look like complete shit in my opinion. I'd much rather have the whole thing in original low res. In the games where that wasn't the case and they knew they were going to make a high res port while they were making the arcade game (Katana and SDOJ) they at least have the whole thing in the same high res on the port and they look great but those games also look great in low res through a crt.

It's funny, DFK BL runs with almost no sound stutter despite how much shit is going on at once, yet MMP, Pink sweets, and Ibara all suffer from severe sound stutter at the title screen, the start of the first level, mini bosses, etc. despite how little is happening comparatively.

I think it has to do with the game uncrunching compressed graphics but I'm not sure. The MMP pcb sometimes gets a little sticky like at the beginning of stage 2, maybe the CPU multitasking.

[rtw]

I think it has to do with the game uncrunching compressed graphics but I'm not sure. The MMP pcb sometimes gets a little sticky like at the beginning of stage 2, maybe the CPU multitasking.

This is correct PS and MMP employ a much more CPU intensive compression than the other games.

[thetricker24]

hey guys please can you let me know how good/bad is the actual emulation of mushihimesama ?
i got mame slowpoke with it, and it found particulary very very very difficult... like, i use to be not that bad in shmups in general, i can clear saidaioujou or crimzon clover world ignition arcade original, but can not go to stage 5 maniac in mushi...
are there missing slowdowns ? or i suck so much at this ?

[Xyga]

You don't have to use the slowpoke build anymore, just use the latest 0.160 and set some blitter delay value of 63% or more (don't know which value is best, it doesn't work well-enough anyway).
Otherwise just wait until the day the slowdowns will be somewhat fixed. And no, just as they said nobody knows when because nobody's currently working on it.

[Bananamatic]

i found futari maniac and galuda II easier to clear than mushi original or maniac on the shitty current mame

it just seems to hit mushi worse than other games somehow

[coin]

Really digging the black label music.

Is there any way to advance the sound test in the service menu? I must be missing something?

[rtw]

shitty current mame

Comments like that are going to make MAMEDEV prioritize this for sure...

[system11]

shitty current mame

Comments like that are going to make MAMEDEV prioritize this for sure...

Agreed, other comments come to mind:

Biting the hand that feeds
Beggars can't be choosers

It's amazing MAME even exists at all and does what it does.

[monouchi]

Agreed.
Mame is not like the PCBs but it is a great way to test the games on.
Cant count all the times that mame has let me try a game before taking the jump and buy the pcb.