Help me pick out a new video card for my computer!

[evil_ash_xero]

I know absolutely nothing about video cards. But I know I need one.

Even simple looking games on Steam chug. And I know my computer should be able to handle some of these games.

What I'm looking for, is the best card I can get, in terms of performance. I want to be able to run the better emulators for SNES (not a big goal, I think). Also, I do have Dark Souls for PC, and cannot run it. If I can get something that can come close to running it properly, that would be cool. But that may be out of my computer's abilities.

So, something that will run emulators great, something that will run Steam games (that are doable on my PC) great.

It's getting pretty bad. I can't even play Risky's Revenge in 720, without it going in slow motion.

I had asked on here, a long time ago, about some cards, but I didn't get one then. Definitely need one now. No more putting it off.
Keep in mind, this is a "S" series, so it's the slim model. That was something that someone barely noticed, last time I was asking about cards.

I have a Dell Inspiron 580S.
Processor: Intel Pentium G6950 @ 2.80GHz 2.80GHz
Installed Memory: 4 GB (3.80 usable)
64 Bit operating System (Windows 7)

So help me out guys. Links would be great. And it doesn't have to be budget or anything. Options would be nice.

[Ed Oscuro]

I've not played Risky's Revenge but not being able to run a sidescroller smoothly sounds suspect to me. If the same programs are performing worse for you, it's time for a fresh install of your OS. If new programs are just slow, then you've probably got a variety of issues. Without knowing exactly what does what, I can't really guess what the problems are.

I want to be able to run the better emulators for SNES (not a big goal, I think).

However, I can tell you this: A video card won't help you with bsnes / Higan at all. It can help with Dolphin a good bit, but I think that CPU is going to be borderline for it. If you're interested in seeing what the Dolphin people recommend, look here.

The CPU is roughly 5 years old. That's going to limit what you can do with that machine. It probably is more than enough for many things (i.e., I can *almost* begin to dream about full speed Castlevania LoI in PCSX2 on a 2007 mobile Core 2 Duo, which is even older and slower than your CPU), but keep in mind this is going to limit your reasonable options - and what games you really will be able to get great performance out of. I don't know what your budget is here, but you might want to think that over. Good news, of course, is that your video card choice should carry over fine to a new PC, so long as you make sure not to buy another video card.

The next thing to note is that your PC has (if this is right) a 300W power supply. Not all of that is going to be available to the video card. That should be enough for cards that are likely to be in your budget, but you need to pay attention to this detail.

I'd think about the GeForce 750 Ti. It is about $150, but it should be very suitable for a system like that. There might be something fairly comparable on the AMD side (see the link above) but I don't think there is anything else that is that quiet, cool, and has that much performance in as small a package. Of course you can also go with slightly older lower-power cards too.

Dark Souls should get along fairly well with fairly old stuff, but I'm not sure your PC has enough power to keep an old card happy. I'm still rocking a graphics card from 2010 myself, and it's doing just fine in Dark Souls & DSfix, but it uses a fair amount of power (up to 300W by itself, though that's a worst case scenario and I never run it that hard).

Another option may well be to just pick up whatever is at your local big box retailer, but be wary of big graphics cards that need more power than your computer's PC can support. This won't be a problem with the 750 Ti, which doesn't even require another power connector. Overall, you're probably going to be OK with cards that are reported to use 200W, or cards which "require" a 300W power supply, possibly 350.

Another option would be to recycle the entire thing and start fresh - however you still should be able to roll the 750 Ti into that equation. I assume you'll keep the same monitor, and most games do fairly well on affordable graphics cards at even 1080p and 60 FPS (so long as rendering options are kept reasonable).

My personal plans are to probably get (probably) a Geforce 970 GTX and a new monitor (the one Xyga mentioned) around March. There may be some newer, cheaper video cards coming out then still, which might help drive down the price of current video cards lower.

Likewise, reportedly Intel is going to be releasing information about upcoming CPUs at CES, which starts tomorrow. I don't know if they will have affordable CPUs on offer, or how soon they will be available, but it's probably worth waiting a day.

Finally, you can do surprisingly well even at "budget" or near-budget prices these days. A good PC that does mostly anything you could want can be built somewhere around $500, especially if you take care not to leave all the fancy rendering options enabled.

[evil_ash_xero]

EDIT:

Just deleted my post.

OK, thanks for the response.

My computer is the slim type, so it needs a "low profile" card. And unfortunately, it's only got 250 watts.

Ideas? My options seem a bit limited.

[BuckoA51]

For a side scroller Risky's Revenge has some pretty demanding GPU requirements:-

NVIDIA® Geforce 9600GT, AMD® Radeon™ HD 3870 or higher (it must be able to manage Pixel Shader 3.0) with at least 512MB of display memory.

Certainly if that's the minimum spec and you're struggling to run it on an old onboard graphics chip I wouldn't blame poor performance on the OS.

[evil_ash_xero]

Well, my system doesn't have a dedicated graphics card. Hence, the poor performance.


EDIT AGAIN:

I went to Dell's site, and they have this listed as a good card for my system. http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/prod ... pid=205142

Are the specs good? Would I be able to play Ikaruga without it stuttering, in Steam?

Should I just upgrade my PSU, and get something more powerful?

[blizzz]

That HD5570 is ancient and completely overpriced. You could get a low-profile GTX 750Ti for less, though low-profile cards are noisier as they have less space for cooling. Also your CPU is crap. If you want to run bsnes you will need an i5. That Pentium CPU is as slow as it gets and will be a bottleneck in most games even with a new GPU.

You mentioned that it doesn't have to be budget. How about you buy a new PC with a decent i3 ($110), GTX 750Ti ($130) and an SSD ($100 for 250GB). That will be enough for most games, minus some modern AAA stuff and doesn't cost too much. I played Dark Souls 2 on an i3-4130 with a GTX 650 Ti Boost GPU, which I switched for a GTX 750 Ti recently.

Edit: To clarify why I recommend the GTX 750 Ti. It was the first card from the new generation of Nvidia GPUs, the same as the GTX 970 / 980. It's slower than the new high end cards, but it uses very very little energy, 60W max. I had an AMD HD6950 before which is a bit slower than the GTX 750Ti, but uses over 200W. It's probably the most performance you can get without an extra power cable.

[evil_ash_xero]

Well, it may be crap, but it's what I'm using for the next few years.

I only really emulate old games on my comp. I have been a little surprised that I've been having some issues with older games in Steam.
So, that's my main focus. Just to get that stuff running better. I really hate PC Gaming (it would turn into another version of my "technical side of gaming take out the fun" thread).

I would like it to play Dark Souls. But if it can't, I'll live. I have it on PC. I'll just make sure the next PC I get, has a bit more horsepower.
Right now, I can't even run Silent Hill 3 at full speed, which I find very sad.

So, you think the GTX 750 ti, and a low profile version of it, would be what I'm looking for? I can't seem to find it, on Amazon. If you could link a place to buy the low profile version, I'd appreciate it.

Too bad about the higher end SNES emulators. I guess it'll have to wait, as well.

[blizzz]

Gigabyte has low-profile versions of the GTX 750 and GTX 750 Ti. The 750 non-Ti is ~$20 cheaper but a tiny bit slower. This might be the better choice for you.

I don't know much about US hardware stores, but I looked them up on Newegg. The 750 costs $129 and the 750 Ti costs $150. Both have 2GB VRAM, which is optimal for that chip. Officially they require a 400W PSU, but the 750 Ti uses 60W and the 750 only 55W, so even a 250W PSU should be ok.

[evil_ash_xero]

Is this the same thing (the TI version).

http://www.amazon.com/Gigabyte-GV-N75TO ... N75TOC-2GL

It doesn't flat out say it's low profile, but if you enlarge the pic of the box, it says it is. And someone below asks about LP brackets.

So, is this the one? I would like a nice of one as I can get. So a TI sounds good to me.

[blizzz]

Yes, it's the same. GV-N75TOC-2GL, The L at the end denotes Low Profile I guess.

Btw, this is a PCIe 3.0 card, but it will work with PCIe 2.0 without any problems or performance hit.

[Lord of Pirates]

According to Toms the average is around the TDP but, there are very high spikes that your PSU might not be able to handle.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gef ... 50-20.html

Your CPU might cause a performance hit to the GPU, it will still be better than your integrated junk.


I thought it I should mention it even though neither is likely to happen going off what you intend to use it for.

[blizzz]

Interesting measurements. The PCIe slot only provides 75W, strange that it has such a high peak draw which exceeds the specification.

His PSU is a 250W TFX0250D5W from Bestec. From what I can find it provides 17A on the 12V rail. Since it's a DELL product you can expect that it actually delivers that much. So you get 204W for CPU + GPU. From a quick search it looks like the CPU draws ~82W max. That leaves ~120W for the GPU. It's not ideal, but I would assume that it's stable as long as nothing is overclocked.

[Lord of Pirates]

Interesting measurements. The PCIe slot only provides 75W, strange that it has such a high peak draw which exceeds the specification.

His PSU is a 250W TFX0250D5W from Bestec. From what I can find it provides 17A on the 12V rail. Since it's a DELL product you can expect that it actually delivers that much. So you get 204W for CPU + GPU. From a quick search it looks like the CPU draws ~82W max. That leaves ~120W for the GPU. It's not ideal, but I would assume that it's stable as long as nothing is overclocked.

The base and boost clock is higher on the non-ref. cards so he might need to underclock it.

[BuckoA51]

Make sure you get the card from somewhere you can return it if an upgrade to your PC is completely out of the question. I've had instances of newer cards just not playing nice with older motherboards.

[Ed Oscuro]

Edit: To clarify why I recommend the GTX 750 Ti. It was the first card from the new generation of Nvidia GPUs, the same as the GTX 970 / 980.

The other reasons are why I recommended it, but it's not "the same" as the GTX series. It has fewer features and a different core ("first generation" Maxwell; the new cards are all "second generation" Maxwell). This probably shouldn't affect a buying decision much because gaming on that old CPU will be slow even without special features available; however, one of the features on the GTX cards in particular allows more data transfer between the card and the CPU without increasing the bandwidth requirement, meaning that a somewhat slow PCI-E lane will nevertheless run faster (though, again, a really slow CPU might negate any such advantage even in theory).

Sites have been reporting there might be new "budget" GeForce cards coming out sometime in the first half of this year. These probably won't be options for this PC, but the new cards might help with pricing even further. I'd be more interested to see when AMD might release something new, but I'm not seeing that.

[Xan]

The GTX 960 will be released this month, current rumors say they went with a 128-bit bus and 2 GB which doesn't sound so hot if true. I really expected 192-bit and 3 GB. I'm on a 660 myself and this will probably be a fair bit faster, but 2 GB isn't that future-proof for a card of that speed, especially with all of these poorly optimized console ports.

[evil_ash_xero]

Thanks for the suggestions, guys. I appreciate it.

[Xyga]

I'm also thinking about a new computer (finally) something that can easily handle heavy emulators like PCSX2/Dolphin, heavy quality shaders in 1440 for MAME or so, no tearing plz lulz.

And something compatible with G-Sync or alternatives which I don't know shit about yet though, but I definitely want to experience.

I'm also concerned about drivers updates and such, so non-mainstream stuff kind of worries me (should I?)

[Ed Oscuro]

Your alternative is AMD FreeSync. There's also the DisplayPort spec DisplayPort 1.3 but I don't think anything is supporting that optional feature yet. It's interesting (but probably predictable) that nVidia went with a more vendor-lock-in-friendly option, but more expensive, while AMD leveraged an existing spec and "rushed" what seems to be just as good a solution to market. However it seems that AMD's solution naturally also requires something similar to the G-SYNC FPGA; part of the cost difference might be down to licensing fees. Time will tell how good the AMD FreeSync monitors are, while the G-Sync displays are more or less a known quantity, but I'm not expecting much beyond the apparent price delta. The LG 34UM67 looks interesting, especially if 60Hz is all you want and sticking with AMD GPUs (but why???) is not an issue. A short summary of FreeSync is available in this one-year-old AnandTech piece.

Looking at their news feed with the FreeSync tag, AMD is getting FreeSync supporting displays from both LG and now Samsung. I don't see any compelling OEM lineup difference on one side or another yet; the issue probably comes down just to price and maybe quality.

Adaptive Sync has been supported in AMD hardware for a few generations now apparently, and I wouldn't be worried about new graphics cards having some support for it going forward.

[blizzz]

Adaptive Sync has been supported in AMD hardware for a few generations now apparently, and I wouldn't be worried about new graphics cards having some support for it going forward.

From what I remember, even the R9-280X has no support for Adaptive Sync. But at this point there is no reason to buy AMD cards unless you want a low end card and safe a few bucks. If you want a good gaming card get a GTX 970, preferably one of the semi-passive cooled ones from MSI or ASUS. The GTX 960 might also be interesting if the price is right. I'm actually super glad that my old R9-280X broke and they replaced it with a GTX 970 (for a couple bucks extra). The 970 blows the 280X away in every regard, especially power consumption and lower (no) noise.

[Xyga]

GTX 970

Isn't that overkill even for PCSX2/Dolphin ? Also it's like half my budget lol.
I don't play pc games by the way (well there's pc shmups/doujin but that's it).

EDIT: I mean stuff like G-Sync is only available from their higher-end gear or what ?

[blizzz]

Hm, I have no idea about GPU requirements in emulators, never used any. But you don't have to get a high end card to use G-Sync. Even the 650 Ti Boost supports it. G-SYNC | Supported GPUs

[Xan]

For emulators I'd rather think about getting the fastest Intel CPU you can afford, ideally an overclockable version (and a good motherboard/PSU/cooler to go with it). GPU is really secondary here.

Regarding the 970, I've read on several sites that nearly all cards have issues with coil whine (where it's actually audible in games). Being familiar with this problem from past cards I'd probably not buy a 970. Incidentally the considerably more expensive 980 doesn't seem to suffer from it as much.

[Xyga]

Well I know I need a good CPU, but the GPU is still important if I want to apply at least a bit of real upscaling and filters. I don't need the best possible output, but still.
Also demanding emu shaders on full 1440 resolution I believe require some GPU muscle, not Hulk-like, but probably average, dunno exactly.

(regarding CPU though it's a different topic, some even recommend high-clocked i3 over 3,5GHz before overclocked i5, but I don't know which solution gives the most juice for the money)

[Xan]

A high-clocked i3 could be potentially better than a low-clocked i5 given that these emulators don't tend to use many threads, and might be more cost effective since you can save on other parts too then. Stuff like low-level DSP emulation on Dolphin is a real choker though, I wouldn't skimp on CPU power if emulation would be of much interest to me.

[Ed Oscuro]

Adaptive Sync has been supported in AMD hardware for a few generations now apparently, and I wouldn't be worried about new graphics cards having some support for it going forward.

From what I remember, even the R9-280X has no support for Adaptive Sync.

http://support.amd.com/en-us/search/faq/219

But at this point there is no reason to buy AMD cards unless you want a low end card and safe a few bucks.

Agreed, though if your budget is half that or less, the 750 Ti looks like a great option too, especially for SFF / noise- or heat- or power-conscious users. I don't think anything in the AMD lineup approaches it.

[blizzz]

Yea, as i remembered. Only the R9 295X2, 290X, R9 290, R9 285, R7 260X and R7 260 GPUs support dynamic refresh rates.

Btw, my GTX 970 has no coil whine, while my old R9 280X had a lot of it. It happens with all high end cards and is down to luck (and a good PSU) if you get a good or bad card.

[Lord of Pirates]

I'd consider waiting around for AMDs 3XX lineup before making a decision on the GPU unless you really want a new PC now.

[Ed Oscuro]

Yea, as i remembered. Only the R9 295X2, 290X, R9 290, R9 285, R7 260X and R7 260 GPUs support dynamic refresh rates.

It's very sneaky of them, isn't it?
Why this happened as it does, with AMD's renaming of old parts (even the cores getting and having features lopped off, i.e. Bonaire, Bonaire XT, and Bonaire XTX, though that's normal), was confusing to tease out until I found this:
http://www.techspot.com/news/57934-only ... plays.html <- everything made clear!
Ghosts of marketing decisions past come to haunt us this post-Christmastime.

It's annoying that AMD have chosen to say that "video playback and power-saving purposes" are part of their 'FreeSync initiative' when everybody uses the term FreeSync to refer to the adaptive sync - probably the vast majority of people using the term think it is in fact referring to AMD's Adaptive Sync. I hope they don't go branding parts with "Project FreeSync compatible" logos when they don't hold adaptive sync. They should have put the bit about partial support as a cool bonus, not the first line - oh by the way the part we care about? That's an afterthought.

It's not clear to me that G-SYNC parts are actually more expensive, but perhaps this sheds some light on why they have gone a different route for more widespread GPU support.

I'd consider waiting around for AMDs 3XX lineup before making a decision on the GPU unless you really want a new PC now.

I'm pretty concerned about AMD. They might be able to push down the price of low-performance, low-cost parts by flooding the market but they are becoming markedly less competitive than other companies in a variety of areas. What you say is right, but if all they bring to the table will be pressure on the bottom of the market, then I'm not sure how long I'd like to wait for that pricing to take effect.

[Lord of Pirates]

I'll agree on AMD's CPUs, which have been hurting since Intel tried to screw them, but performance has been relatively similar for AMD/nVidia GPUs for a while now. In terms of price/performance I think AMD is doing well with a lineup that had been running up against the 700 series when the cards beat out nVidia's current line in some cases (performance, not power). The Maxwell cards even make the 700 series cards look terrible in terms of power and heat (makes my 780 look like a power gorging beast ).

I can't really comment on other areas of their business but, their GPUs definitely don't have me worried at the moment.