PS3: Good news and bad...

Zweihander · Post by **Zweihander** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:31 pm

Click. I already started a thread there, which contains a magazine scan of said news.

The good: lack of region encoding. No having to mod your PS3 or import a Japanese one.

The bad: disc-encryption code technology. Evereyone with a PS3 will have to modify it to evade this threat.

Honestly, one out of every 100 US-released PS2 games interests me. However, I (and likely most people on the Shmups forums) would like to be able to play future Cave games, and the good news in said article could save us all a shitload of cash. However, the bad news could mean a universal plight for every future PS3 owner.

Discuss.

SAM · Post by **SAM** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:41 pm

It seems that I counldn't use my Hori RAP on the PS3...

I hate all the standard Sony PS controller. The same for the new wireless controller, I will gut it and make it into a Seimitsu joystick.

But it seems that I cannot put my joystick on the table and the console on the floor, like I did now. The inferred from the controller cannot reach the console then...

judesalmon · Post by **judesalmon** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 2:08 pm

Those are both old news pieces, but the thing about PS3 being region-free is looking increasingly likely, which is of course good, although it still might not be region-free for PS1 & 2 games.

Sony has got a patent for the disc-encryption technology, but has said it won't use it - it wouldn't be allowed to anyway.

Zweihander · Post by **Zweihander** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 2:11 pm

judesalmon wrote:Those are both old news pieces, but the thing about PS3 being region-free is looking increasingly likely, which is of course good, although it still might not be region-free for PS1 & 2 games.

Sony has got a patent for the disc-encryption technology, but has said it won't use it - it wouldn't be allowed to anyway.

Heh... guess I'm behind on the news.

I knew the issue of GI was a montn or so old, so I searched the last few pages for a PS3-related thread. None found, figured I'd inform anyone who didn't know yet. ^^;

Also, something told me Sony wouldn't use that technology on PS3-- namely, the fact that your PS3 would likely break down after a couple years, and you'd face the task of transferring your old PS3's registration over to a new one somehow, since the discs have already been branded like cattle.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 2:25 pm

Zweihander wrote:Also, something told me Sony wouldn't use that technology on PS3-- namely, the fact that your PS3 would likely break down after a couple years, and you'd face the task of transferring your old PS3's registration over to a new one somehow, since the discs have already been branded like cattle.

Not only that... What if you buy the latest Pro Evolution Soccer 19 and want to show it at a party at friend's home...

judesalmon · Post by **judesalmon** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 2:29 pm

You'd kill the second-hand and rental markets, but that'd be totally against most countries' laws, so they couldn't do it.

The technology could be used on copies though - if a copy was made of a game, that copy would only work on the console that it was first played on (as owner's are allowed to make copies of things they own for themselves).

Zweihander · Post by **Zweihander** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:16 pm

Turrican wrote:
Zweihander wrote:Also, something told me Sony wouldn't use that technology on PS3-- namely, the fact that your PS3 would likely break down after a couple years, and you'd face the task of transferring your old PS3's registration over to a new one somehow, since the discs have already been branded like cattle.
Not only that... What if you buy the latest Pro Evolution Soccer 19 and want to show it at a party at friend's home...

The answer to that goes without saying: Sony doesn't profit from you bringing your game to a friend's house-- that'd go against everyone buying a Sony® product brand-new, regardless of how badly it sucks!

Same reason they'd kill off the after-market, if it were legal: they wouldn't profit from it, so why should they allow it?

Welcome to the mindset of SCEA.

benstylus · Post by **benstylus** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:45 pm

Zweihander wrote:Same reason they'd kill off the after-market, if it were legal: they wouldn't profit from it, so why should they allow it?Welcome to the mindset of SCEA.

Welcome to the mindset of EVERY big corporation. Don't lay this all on Sony. You know darn well that movie studios, game companies, electronics manufacturers, etc. would kill to eliminate the aftermarket.

CIT · Post by **CIT** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:08 pm

All the videogame companies already tried to pull this shit in Japan by sueing 2nd hand game stores. Ever notice how all games between about 1999 and 2001 have a little "no resale" mark? Of course their case got kicked out of the courts, but no doubt they'll try to restrict resales again some other way.

iatneH · Post by **iatneH** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:20 pm

Yeah, about that second-hand and rental market, but what about the poor people whose system craps out (or stolen) and they have to buy a new one? The game won't work on the new system, but of course it won't work on the broken one either?

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:43 pm

Zweihander wrote:The answer to that goes without saying: Sony doesn't profit from you bringing your game to a friend's house-- that'd go against everyone buying a Sony® product brand-new, regardless of how badly it sucks!

Yeah, but the news is that Sony, or whoever would come up with this crazy idea, would be out of the market from day two. People are not that stupid.

Imagine McDonald start selling burgers for 15 dollars each. Imagine GameFAQs wanting money for reading the faqs, or Ebay asking money to buyers for subscription... The majority of people would be upset by these actions and would immediately look for an alternative.

It would be the same for PS3. But frankly I believe this is impossible from a legal standpoint, and quite illogical anyway: in the same news they tell me that I can import a game from Japan, but I won't be able to play it at my brother's PS3? Doesn't make any sense.

Nah. What if the game doesn't work properly, and I return it to the store? The guy at desk will surely say "Sure, let's try it on our consoles in the store" except that wouldn't be possible anymore...

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:00 pm

Yeah, but the news is that Sony, or whoever would come up with this crazy idea, would be out of the market from day two. People are not that stupid.

Indeed. To boot, Sony only came up w/ the technology... the fact that it would be utilized on the PS3 was pure speculation.

FatCobra · Post by **FatCobra** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:15 pm

Disk encryption? WTF? I thought CDs and DVDs were read-only?

jpolz · Post by **jpolz** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:33 pm

FatCobra wrote:Disk encryption? WTF? I thought CDs and DVDs were read-only?

Doesn't mean that there isn't a small writable portion of the disc that can be written to the first time you play it to lock to your console.

The n00b · Post by **The n00b** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:40 pm

Sony wouldn't do this. Microsoft would absolutely kill them everywhere but Japan if they did, and Japan's importance as a market is rapidly diminishing. They might kill the second hand market but the cost to the company would be too great.

UnscathedFlyingObject · Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:59 pm

^ I agree with teh noob.

Zweihander · Post by **Zweihander** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:59 pm

We're goin down, down, in an earlier round
And sugar we're goin' down swingin'
I'll be your number one with SecuROM®,
A disc-encryption complex, cock it and pull it!

....Yeah, I know. Fall-out Boy is lame. But here's Sony's swan song, since they'll be out of the console war if they do it!

ST Dragon · Post by **ST Dragon** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 11:34 pm

I remember reading an article some time ago, that the next Windows O/S will use encryption routines rendering cracked/hacked software and free media files like mp3s, useless!
But this type encryption on a game console? I really doubt that this is feasible.

It will be interesting however, to see a region-free PS-3 being able to play all those multi region PS-1 & PS-2 as well as PS-3 imports.

And what's this stuff about the PS-3 not being compatible with PS-1/2 memory cards? Is this verified?

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 11:58 pm

Remember this is "Security Holes R-US" Microsoft we're talking about. I'd give it 1 month after vista is released for someone to come up with a way to crack those protections. Free media unplayable? Doubt it. That's like having your car manufacturer forcing you to use gasoline from only Texaco or Mobil.

AWJ · Post by **AWJ** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 2:00 am

This is months-old news, and was never anything but rumormongering. Sony has officially stated that the PS3 will not use this technology to lock out secondhand games.

CMoon · Post by **CMoon** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 2:57 am

jpolz wrote:
FatCobra wrote:Disk encryption? WTF? I thought CDs and DVDs were read-only?
Doesn't mean that there isn't a small writable portion of the disc that can be written to the first time you play it to lock to your console.

Uhhh, meaning it would have a small part it writes to like a cd-r? That would be horrible news, since cd-rs aren't really 'burned' like CDs but rather a dye in the disc reacts to the laser. Obviously cd-rs are much more fragile than CDs and I'm sure games would 'go bad', all the time.

At this rate, they might be better having the ps3 'register' all new games by going on-line and sending the serial # of your machine and of the game to an on-line database. Of course they get around the breach of confidentiality by requiring that every new game put in the machine has a terms of service agreement.

Blah! The future looked so great when I saw it as a kid on the Jetsons.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 3:17 am

Honestly, I don't think piracy is harming Sony or everyone so badly... And this method wouldn't stop it anyway. Same with imports, once they created regions to prevent gamers to buy games that weren't localized yet.

Today, the problem belongs to the past. I mean, there are 100 millions PS2 out there, I don't think a guy who wants to play Homura is relevant for statistics. Try to go at Average Joe and tell him "Hey, import DMC 16, you'll have it six months before anyone, all in Japanese!" and he'll give you a weird look.
Not to mention that a lot of significant releases today come either worldwide, or even in USA or Europe before Japan.

UnscathedFlyingObject · Thu Jan 05, 2006 3:23 am

If they de-regionize everywhere, most europeans would be buying their shizz from Japan or USA since they usually get screwed with releases.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 3:35 am

UnscathedFlyingObject wrote:If they de-regionize everywhere, most europeans would be buying their shizz from Japan or USA since they usually get screwed with releases.

You mean: most europeans among the small, small minority who cares. Among the hardcore niche that would rather have a JRPG in full Japanese to avoid black bars...

FatCobra · Post by **FatCobra** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 7:06 pm

You can't stop piracy, no matter how hard the croporate giants try. Someone comes up with a new way to encrypt or protect software, some smart hacker will be right around the corner making a way to defeat it.

When will they learn?

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:21 pm

The n00b wrote:and Japan's importance as a market is rapidly diminishing

You are high. Don't mistake "not the largest market" with "uninmportant". Microsoft obviously doesn't think so.

Blade · Post by **Blade** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:22 pm

Thought I'd confirm what everyone else suspected.

I really wish they wouldn't do that CD Security thing though. Maybe there's an option to not have it or something.

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:43 pm

Again, just because they can, doesn't mean they will. Microsoft and Nintendo would PWN the hell out of them:

"Aw, so you bought a PS3 and now you can't borrow a game from your friend because they require you to sign on to the console with his SSN and DOB? Tough luck. If you had an X360 (or Revolution), all you have to do is put the game in and turn it on. Psst, it now includes Halo 3/Umpteenth Mario game for the low price of 299.00 and we'll even throw in three months of Premium Xbox Live/Nintendo Emulation service for free. Available everywhere where PS3s are being stocked, but do not get sold, nyuk nyuk."

It's freedom, or death.

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:28 pm

Blade wrote:Thought I'd confirm what everyone else suspected.

I really wish they wouldn't do that CD Security thing though. Maybe there's an option to not have it or something.

That's good news about region-free! What do you mean by "that CD Security thing"? Will CD-Rom based PS2 and PS1 games not work on it?

I hope it will be backwards compatible with import PS1 and PS2 games, THAT would be a real boon for shmuppers!

Still, it better be compatible with the Guncon 2!

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 1:01 am

if HD-DVD keeps the old regional setting (Region 2 for Japan & Europe) I found which format to side with.

How is that the more I read about PS3, the less I'm interested into buying one? (Pss, Kojima-sensei, make quick to change Snake's alliance for MGS4 - after all, it's war we're talking about).