Best Joystick (Sanwa, Seimitsu, ILSA) for playin Shmups

[Shadolf]

Hey folks,

I´m currently looking for some new Joysticks and Buttons for my NAOMI-Cabinet.
Can someone here suggest me a good (the best ) Joystick for playin Shmups.
And mybe the best buttons too .

And another question: can I connect all those Joystick with an I-PAC to my PC or are there some better options.
I think about gettin an I-PAC2 for 2 Joysticks and about 22 to 24 Buttons.

Thanks for any answers to come.

[matrigs]

I can imagine those "classics" will be mentioned a few times:

- Seimitsu LS-32
- Suzo Universal
- IL Magnetic

I personally cannot stop recommending the Seimitsu LS-55 as it's my all time favourite stick of choice for shmups and seems very underrated.

When it comes to technical stuff, check out kowals site for a lot of info:

http://www.kowal.itcom.pl/ArcadeParts_pliki/apJOY.htm

Here you have the most important data of all the sticks mentioned on his site in english:

http://www.kowal.itcom.pl/ArcadeParts_p ... tZESen.htm

Regardless - remember that you have to keep in mind your panel and mounting plate.

For example - i have an LS-55 in my Naomi Panel which has a mounting plate for Sanwa JLF sticks and it's a little bit on the short side.

[Shadolf]

Thanks for your help. I´ve just read, that the original Joysticks at my Virtua Striker 4 Cabinet are Analog Sticks.
All the sticks you´ve mentioned, are digital, right? Are there also good Analog Sticks I can use to change? And are they good for Shmups?
At least when I play with my XBOX360-Pad I use the Analogstick and I feel good with it.

I´m looking for the best controlls and the best experience.
Would be very nice to here more opinions from other Members too, because I think it´s a usefull topic for everyone .

[Ed Oscuro]

Yes, if it's right that the cabinet uses analog sticks, those are pretty much unheard of in this forum. I don't have a single game board that would make good use of those (if they even are compatible).

If the cabinet is JAMMA standard, you may be able to swap the sticks for regular digital sticks, by unbolting the old ones and putting in digital ones. I would be careful with an unusual and probably quite nice cabinet, of course.

You also don't want just any digital sticks - do make sure that they have eight-way capability, not four or two-way (well, that last type must be rare - I'm thinking the left-right lever of Pac-Land here). There's been a lot of talk here and there about what kind of restrictor plate you want under an eight-way stick - choices include a square gate or an octagon - personally I think whatever the major sticks come with is fine. Anything Matrigs mentioned is going to be fine - I'm just mentioning this in case you decide to look further afield, but frankly these requirements have been set in stone for a long time so there's not likely to be any surprises unless you look at old stuff that's probably not recommended anyway. The other thing to be aware of is that mounting isn't necessarily identical for all sticks - though it should be for anything intended to be slung under an arcade cabinet, I've still seen lots of talk of various sticks that have this or that issue.

Personally I'm interested in trying out the Hori Hayabusa sometime.

I have an LS-32 myself and I'd have to think that matrigs is right on the money here - even this well-regarded stick seems to have a bit much travel (distance to push before it engages a direction) for my liking. It's not terrible or anything, however.

[matrigs]

yself and I'd have to think that matrigs is right on the money here - even this well-regarded stick seems to have a bit much travel (distance to push before it engages a direction) for my liking. It's not terrible or anything, however.

What i personally hate about the LS-32 (and most sticks that have a pivot based on a "bearing") is the fact that once the restrictor engages, you can still push it a little further. This felt very wrong in more hectic situations. I just saw that this even has a name on SRK forums - "pivot popping"

Also those sticks have this initial deadzone before the spring engages where it moves ever so slightly.

The LS-55 (and LS-33) have both those problems fixed.

Thanks for your help. I´ve just read, that the original Joysticks at my Virtua Striker 4 Cabinet are Analog Sticks.
All the sticks you´ve mentioned, are digital, right? Are there also good Analog Sticks I can use to change? And are they good for Shmups?
At least when I play with my XBOX360-Pad I use the Analogstick and I feel good with it.

Analog sticks are pretty pointless for shmups and fighters and there is no point to trying to implement them.

You need to check if you have all the analog wiring as well. You most probably have a JVS board under the control panel like so:



Now you should have an array of connectors like so:



Top row is for digital controls, bottom for analog. Your panel is connected to the bottom row, right?

In this case it would be easier to buy a jvs-pac instead of a j-pac:

http://jvspac.kirurg.org/?page=install

You can then use the internal wiring.

[Ed Oscuro]

^ very informative post, thanks for that detail. What you say about the LS-32 definitely jives with my experience, so I'm even more excited to try out a LS-55/33 sometime.

Speaking of which, one thing still escapes me - people seem to rate the LS-33 and LS-55 as having a "far" engage and throw distances but they are physically smaller sticks. Probably the engage and throw distances scare many people away from them without knowing of their other qualities.

[chempop]

I like the Seimitsu LS-56 or and LS-58 (slightly light spring than the 56) with octagonal gate the most.
Of course it sometimes depends on your control panel mounts which sticks are even an option, but usually most sanwa and seimitsu can be installed with the correct mount plate. You’ll want to keep in mind that the LS-32/40 use a different mounting plate than the LS-33/56/55/58.

[speedlolita]

The LS-55 felt like a tight JLF to me. That basically means it was perfect.

[matrigs]

Speaking of which, one thing still escapes me - people seem to rate the LS-33 and LS-55 as having a "far" engage and throw distances but they are physically smaller sticks. Probably the engage and throw distances scare many people away from them without knowing of their other qualities.

The LS-33 has actually the shortest engage and throw of all japanese sticks. But it's also the lightest one. It's pretty much perfect for kids. I was playing with it for ages, but in the end i felt that i was doing to much unnecessary movement as even the slightest touch would engage it.

The LS-55 has a harder spring (more or less JLF hard), although is a bit softer than the LS-32. The engage is again shorter than the LS-32 and the only real drawback is the longer throw, but this can be fixed by simply wraping around a bit of electric tape around the upper part of the actuator that hits the restrictor.

[system11]

The Suzo 500 (aka universal and Wico universal) just clobbers everything by a thousand miles.

Unfortunately it's next to impossible to fit in Japanese cabs.

[Shadolf]

Hey Matrigs and all others,

nice to see some other opinions here.

I´ve just checked my connections at the panel and the controls are connected to bouth in the top row and the right one on the bottom row.
The JVS-PAC is a good idea. Currently i´m thinkin about what to do with my cab. I think I´ll sell the Triforce-Kit with the Virtua Striker 4 disc and so on.
Do you think I can sell the stuff and just keep the JVS-Board and the control panel without the buttons n sticks. Would make any sense?
Or should I sell every thing and put a new panel and so on in the cab? I don´t think I´ll play any Triforce games, cause I don´t play racing and sport games and I don´t want to buy a Lightgun just for Virtua Cop3 and HOTD 3.

[emphatic]

The LS-55 felt like a tight JLF to me. That basically means it was perfect.

Thanks for the tip. I'm gonna get one of these sometime in the future. I never have time to play arcade games though, so the sticks I have now are close to new still.

[Shadolf]

Hey emphatic,

was just at your blogg watching your beautiful custom instruction strips. Really nice.
You have no time for arcade games? When not for those, do you ever play? Poor poor emphatic

[matrigs]

Do you think I can sell the stuff and just keep the JVS-Board and the control panel without the buttons n sticks. Would make any sense?

Not really. First of all the mounting holes for the analog sticks might be different from digital ones. Then the button loom might be insufficient for your needs if you want to add more buttons. Lastly, you'll end up with the butt ugly panel overlay. Also selling the whole panel in "plug'n'play condition" will definitely raise the chance for a sale.

[emphatic]

Hey emphatic,

was just at your blogg watching your beautiful custom instruction strips. Really nice.
You have no time for arcade games? When not for those, do you ever play? Poor poor emphatic

Glad you enjoy my site. I have three kids, the youngest is almost two, so I have no quality time to spend on me/playing games. I also have other hobbies that is quieter that I can do when the family is sleeping. I hope to get back to shmupping when my kids are older though, I'm never gonna get rid of my cabs/PCBs.

[Shadolf]

Hey matrigs,

what´s about the Sanwa JLF Stick? I get a Controlpanel with Joystick mountings for Sanwa JLF sticks (no joystick mounting plate is required) from giz10p.
Or can I do somthing to mount the LS55 on this panel?

[matrigs]

Hey matrigs,

what´s about the Sanwa JLF Stick? I get a Controlpanel with Joystick mountings for Sanwa JLF sticks (no joystick mounting plate is required) from giz10p.
Or can I do somthing to mount the LS55 on this panel?

To mount the LS-55 to a panel with JLF brackets you just need to make two holes in the mounting plate that comes with the LS-55 so they correspond with the holes in the brackets.

I will try to remember to make a picture of the underside of my panel once i'm at home.

I'd like to remind you just again that with the JLF brackets, the LS-55 is a tad on the short side. About 21-22mm (23-24mm being ideal for japanese sticks).
I have fixed this by putting some washers in between the shaft and the balltop, but you might dislike the look / feel of this.

I have mounted JLF sticks in my Naomi two player panel and they of course fit and work fine.

I used them with custom actuators from user kowal, which reduce the throw and engage quite drastically.

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... m+actuator

[Monstermug]

Virtstick's imo "Built like a tank and tight like a virgin"

Sadly he seemed to have stopped making them anymore, but you do get a few people still selling unwanted spares.

[Shadolf]

Hey Matrigs,
I´ve bought the LS-58-01 for my cab now. I saw you posting some about that stick.
How does it copare to the LS-55? I also bought some LS-55 springs for exchange, what do you think about this?
And I think about getting some octagonal restriction plates. Please tell me what you think about all this.

[chempop]

It’s worth trying the octo-gate, as soon as I tried it I felt more in control and started playing better. It almost felt like cheating Now I can pretty much go back and forth from LS-56/58 w/octo and LS-32 w/square, but I have multiple machines with different setups.

The problem I had with the LS-55 was that the actuator isn’t a separate part like on other seimitsu sticks, it’s actually part of the metal shaft. I believe the best way to describe the action of the stick moving around and pressing the levers as a tad like “grinding”, it didn’t not feel smooth like the 56. I don’t think the spring from the 55 fits the 56/58, but I could be mistaken.

[blank964]

It seems reasonable to start with a shmup standard like the LS-32 and then potentially expand from there.

[kowal]

really hard to say what is best for shmups
I tested everything and the "clear" answer is impossible.
but I think suzo inductive is close to ideal.
about P360 - this controller is amazing but the correct "shmups" modification is very difficult or too expensive for the casual gamer.
1. SUZO inductive / P360 with short shaft for metal panel
.... long nothing
2. iL Magnetic / Suzo STC joystick
3. JLW-TM8 JP version (production stopped)
.... long nothing
4. JLF with short shaft or "my" bigger JLF actuator
5. LS33, LS32, LS56 and Ls58 all this stiks is similar but have different dynamics
.... long nothing - all others