At a guess i'd say he means because it's set in a WWII inspired steampunk warzone rocking fighter planes, tanks and heavy ordnance rather than a colourful bug world with dinosaurs, glowing octopuses and giant crabs.Cagar wrote: how does akai katana have serious art style compared to futari?
Accessible and awesome shooting games (for new players???) !
Re: Accessible and awesome shooting games (for new players??
Always outnumbered, never outgunned - No zuo no die
ChurchOfSolipsism wrote: ALso, this is how SKykid usually posts
Re: Accessible and awesome shooting games (for new players??
Cagar wrote:err? wtf?Special World wrote: 1. Horizontal
3. Serious art style
the scoring system is way more esoteric.
How is horizontal a bonus, and how does akai katana have serious art style compared to futari?
Horizontal is obviously a bonus for someone not into the genre, tate games can be borderline unplayable on most widescreen tv's. Needing a dedicated set up is pretty prohibitive if you're not already into the genre.
Re: Accessible and awesome shooting games (for new players??
Playing on a modern widescreen tv at all is already unplayable because of the input lag. (unless you're lucky) (my widescreen TV has 5 extra frames, completely unbearable. I probably wouldn't be able to clear futari original with it)Immryr wrote: Horizontal is obviously a bonus for someone not into the genre, tate games can be borderline unplayable on most widescreen tv's. Needing a dedicated set up is pretty prohibitive if you're not already into the genre.
Art style =/= theme.Skykid wrote:At a guess i'd say he means because it's set in a WWII inspired steampunk warzone rocking fighter planes, tanks and heavy ordnance rather than a colourful bug world with dinosaurs, glowing octopuses and giant crabs.Cagar wrote: how does akai katana have serious art style compared to futari?
And even if we're talking about themes, the theme being good because of ROCKING FIGHTER PLANES!! is so subjective that it's not relevant and should be forgotten in this whole discussion
-
japanesesuperplayer
- Posts: 30
- Joined: Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:30 pm
Re: Accessible and awesome shooting games (for new players??
Say what you want, but jumping T-Rexes with rocket-arms are pretty fucking cool.Skykid wrote:At a guess i'd say he means because it's set in a WWII inspired steampunk warzone rocking fighter planes, tanks and heavy ordnance rather than a colourful bug world with dinosaurs, glowing octopuses and giant crabs.Cagar wrote: how does akai katana have serious art style compared to futari?






Re: Accessible and awesome shooting games (for new players??
idk, i think dojbl is a lot easier to figure out and play than garegga, no matter the skill level. the weird thing is that garegga also has a lower raw difficulty than dojbl when played correctly, unless you try to 1-life it and/or turn on extended or somethingSkykid wrote:Dodonpachi DaiOuJou Black Label
One of the most beautiful things ever conceived on God's blue earth. About as accessible for new players as Battle Garegga, but oh so awesome.
they're relatively easy to find since they're popular enough to usually be in stock somewhere, and they cost about $20~30. that might seem a bit steep, but they are imports and they aren't horribly abused like a typical used game would be. i don't know how much it would cost to order one in japan or buy a copy from a doujin shop, thoughSpecial World wrote:Question: What's your favorite Touhou game? Can it be legitimately purchased for cheap or are all Touhou games just pirated to hell?
Rage Pro, Rage Fury, Rage MAXX!
Re: Accessible and awesome shooting games (for new players??
Raiden Fighters Aces is pretty inexpensive on US 360 and has three great Raiden Fighters games. Personally I'd say they're fairly approachable for a first timer.
Einhander and Raiden Project for Playstation are both inexpensive and are compatible with PS2, and Raiden Project is available in PAL as well as NTSC/U.
Oooh, and R-Types and R-Type Delta are also PS2 compatible!!
Einhander and Raiden Project for Playstation are both inexpensive and are compatible with PS2, and Raiden Project is available in PAL as well as NTSC/U.
Oooh, and R-Types and R-Type Delta are also PS2 compatible!!
-
Squire Grooktook
- Posts: 5997
- Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:39 am
Re: Accessible and awesome shooting games (for new players??
I think the theme is something to mention if it's good, at least in passing.Cagar wrote: And even if we're talking about themes, the theme being good because of ROCKING FIGHTER PLANES!! is so subjective that it's not relevant and should be forgotten in this whole discussion
Anyway:
G-Darius and Darius Gaiden.
Gradius, R-Type, and Darius were THE shmups for me and my brother, long before we ever even heard of Toaplan, Cave, Raizing, etc. It's pretty much in a holy trinity of classic legacy shmups. Both games can be played on the Taito Legends 2 ps2 collection (G-Darius only on ps2 version, Gaiden is on pc version and ps2 IIRC), and its port of G-Darius is arcade perfect (unlike the earlier ps1 port). They are also emulatable, though IIRC G-Darius is less well emulated than Gaiden (I think it has some sound issues in mame even though it plays well).
The Darius series is unique with its branching paths. I love it, and I suspect many new players would love the sense of adventure, variety, and replayability it comes with. Not to mention that there is a lot of fun to be had in devising a route, not just through the stages themselves but the overall path through the game.
The patterns, bosses, enemy variety, level design, pacing...all of it, is just golden. It really has something for everyone, and it has some of the most fun dodging out there.
They are relatively difficult, but a 1cc is pretty doable for a newcomer (Gaiden actually one of the first shmups I 1cc'd back when I was getting "serious" about 1cc's for the first time). There's not much to scoring (G is a bit deeper in this regard), and the games are most fun to play for survival anyway IMO. If you 1cc it though, there's still a shit ton of replayability in going for a no bomb/1 life clear (which is pretty balls hard), as well as completing all the routes. The ability to pick your stages also makes the difficulty more forgiving in some ways, as you can experiment and try other stages if you think the one you're stuck on is too hard. You never really feel trapped with this game.
G and Gaiden are almost identical design wise. Gaiden is more simple and classic, and has more stages. G brings the ability to capture enemy ships as weapons (potentially giving you a swathe of new weapons) as well as the cinematic alpha beam attack which is key to defeating the games bosses. I think the stages are a bit more "vicious" feeling in G, with simple enemy patterns but everything feeling quite a bit faster. Gaiden's bosses are smaller than G, which allows them to be more mobile and have interesting movement patterns on top of bullet patterns, but G still excels with some amazing cinematic and crazy creative attacks from its screen filling monstrosities. So basically play both.
also be sure to note about how you SHOULD NOT PLAY GAIDEN WITH AUTOFIRE unless you're trying to get on this forums leaderboard. Completely ruins any survival challenge as bosses die before they get to use their most fun patterns.
Aeon Zenith - My STG.RegalSin wrote:Japan an almost perfect society always threatened by outsiders....................
Instead I am stuck in the America's where women rule with an iron crotch, and a man could get arrested for sitting behind a computer too long.
-
Pteriforever
- Posts: 250
- Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:53 pm
Re: Accessible and awesome shooting games (for new players??
Blue Wish Resurrection Plus. Despite being my third 1cc, it was the one which got me into playing shmups seriously. It's forgiving, and sort of feels like a simplified CAVE game. Pretty much a great introduction to shmups.
Starhall || Abmneshi || Starhall 2
RegalSin wrote:The art in my opinion is quesitonable, because it looks like it relies on computer art
-
professor ganson
- Posts: 5163
- Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 3:59 am
- Location: OHIO
Re: Accessible and awesome shooting games (for new players??
Shikigami no shiro 2
Zanac Neo
Zanac Neo
-
LordHypnos
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:59 pm
- Location: Mars Colony, 2309
Re: Accessible and awesome shooting games (for new players??
Even though it's already been mentioned, I have to +1 rRootage. I think that the fact that the stages are discrete rather than sequential is really significant for 2 reasons: #1 is that it doesn't take up any time to play a credit, because each stage is only about 5 minutes long (even shorter if you're playing for score--trying to kill as quickly as possible--not that that's all that relevant to this discussion). It's something you could play in a couple minutes of free time. #2 is that most console / PC games have abandoned sequential stages to some extent now (or at least given you infinite continues starting at whatever stage / checkpoint you last played). This makes rRootage play in a bit more of a familiar way. You just complete one microchallenge at a time.
Additionally, rRootage has a wide swath of different difficulties (not in the sense of difficulty settings, but the lower numbered stages are easier and the higher ones are harder, and four whole gameplay modes that (as mentioned earlier) that are based on several classic shmups of the early 2000s (a good era for shmups, I think, even if they weren't all that popular at the time).
I think the random modes are kind of significant, too, as someone who used to play a shit ton of Tetris and not a whole lot of other games. I think that if I had known about rRootage in my teen years, I would have been into shmups a lot earlier.
Worst thing that will happen is you decide you don't like it, and only wasted like 15 minutes tops. I might suggest starting around stages 4A-5R, because the ones, twos and threes are way easy, though you can complete them pretty fast for completions sake. I'd say a beginner should just start with 1A
I also like Cho Ren Sha 68k as a beginner game. I think Squire summed it up pretty well, but would like to add that the music also kicks ass. Then again, I don't know that people without either some Sega Genesis nostalgia, or some late 80s - mid 90s japanese arcade game nostalgia would really like FM music as much as I do.
For the very small number of people who are into Dreamcast and are wanting to try shmups (I used to be in this category, but also I know a lot of people who still have Dreamcasts collecting dust somewhere), I would recommend a few things, although I don't think there's anything that's a perfect call for it. Not really in a particular order (spoilered because this is a pretty uncommon kind of beginner to find, and it's a super long post):
Additionally, rRootage has a wide swath of different difficulties (not in the sense of difficulty settings, but the lower numbered stages are easier and the higher ones are harder, and four whole gameplay modes that (as mentioned earlier) that are based on several classic shmups of the early 2000s (a good era for shmups, I think, even if they weren't all that popular at the time).
I think the random modes are kind of significant, too, as someone who used to play a shit ton of Tetris and not a whole lot of other games. I think that if I had known about rRootage in my teen years, I would have been into shmups a lot earlier.
Do it!EmperorIng wrote:rRootage is one of those games I really need to get around and play.
Worst thing that will happen is you decide you don't like it, and only wasted like 15 minutes tops. I might suggest starting around stages 4A-5R, because the ones, twos and threes are way easy, though you can complete them pretty fast for completions sake. I'd say a beginner should just start with 1A
I also like Cho Ren Sha 68k as a beginner game. I think Squire summed it up pretty well, but would like to add that the music also kicks ass. Then again, I don't know that people without either some Sega Genesis nostalgia, or some late 80s - mid 90s japanese arcade game nostalgia would really like FM music as much as I do.
For the very small number of people who are into Dreamcast and are wanting to try shmups (I used to be in this category, but also I know a lot of people who still have Dreamcasts collecting dust somewhere), I would recommend a few things, although I don't think there's anything that's a perfect call for it. Not really in a particular order (spoilered because this is a pretty uncommon kind of beginner to find, and it's a super long post):
Spoiler
Quick disclaimer: I don't personally care about graphics / music enough to sway me especially on one game or another (Maybe if it were technosoft-tier quality), but an outsider might
1.) Drill (demo)
Why I would recommend: Free (no link, because I think it's only really hosted on pirate sites these days. The developer did release the demo for free before they kind of collapsed and stopped working on it. Their site's been down for a while now), Pretty fun gameplay. Only one stage and two difficulties, so "clearing" it is something that a beginner could feasibly do (The demo is all that's left and it's only the first stage). pretty good music
Cons: Very rough around the edges, somewhat convoluted mechanics, Not everyone likes one stage games, CD-Rs will gradually wear down the laser, though I think Drill loads everything into RAM, at least.
2.) Sturmwind
Why I would recommend: Has a stage select mode that could be played more like modern games with discrete challenges (like rRootage), very easy arcade mode with no continues, even on hard difficulty, but not necessarily easy to beginners (Took me a while to clear it), this is the first shmup I ever played (excluding golden age games like Galaga). The visuals make it feel a bit more like it's using your dreamcast in a way that earlier consoles would probably fail at, though I'm not sure if it's really true. Accessible sci fi theme, and lots of references to retro shooters (Late 80s - mid 90s), pretty good OST
Cons: Kinda euroey, really easy, normal mode is way too long to actually clear in one sitting (Probably like and hour and a half). Asking price is probably going to be around $60 dollars (Though I haven't checked for like a year), which is probably gonna be too steep for someone who isn't pretty gung ho about the Dreamcast. Patterns aren't danmaku-like.
3.) Fast Striker 1.5
Why I would recommend: Most easily available Dreamcast shmups are really hard games (Gunbird 2 or Mars Matrix, for example), the exception is going to be the indie releases. Personally, I think Fast Striker is the best indie release for the DC (Though I haven't played all of them). It's got multiple modes that play pretty differently, danmaku-type patterns, interesting mechanics (bidirectional shot, the bullet eating shields that are kind of like bombs), but not way different from the norm, an excellent OST, pretty forgiving difficulty (though the lack of practice mode makes it a lot harder than it otherwise would be), and decent enemy / bullet patterns. Scenery that affects gameplay a little bit, though not a lot, might appeal to the types who think standard danmaku games don't have enough of that.
Cons: Once again $60. Someone who's really into Dreamcast or shmups might not mind, but someone who just has a DC sitting around probably would. Some of the pros could easily be construed as flaws to someone who just wanted to get good at CAVE games, for example (mostly those that make it not a purely bullet dodging game with only shot and bomb), novice mode kind of sucks (IMHO), dull graphics, originally designed for 16 bit early 90s hardware. Some have also complained about level design not being up to japanese developer standards, which is probably true. I still think it's fun, though
4.) Gunbird 2 (DC version)
Why I would recommend: Yeah, this is not a great choice for beginners. It's probably one of the most punishing games ever (and a 1-ALL is totally harder than a Mars Matrix 1cc). However, the DC version has a few things going for it. For one, it does have several different difficulties, and unlike most arcade shooters, I think the easier-than-arcade difficulties were pretty well thought out and well designed. I'd suggest starting on Child, probably. That's the only one I've cleared (Very Easy is still pretty hard, and Easy feels more or less the same as normal). The game is also (last I checked) cheaper than any other Dreamcast shmups (around $20). Apart from that, it's a top-tier game, and was pretty addictive to me even though I probably still don't stand a chance at clearing it any time soon, as my second shmup. Comedic cut scenes, lots of characters that play significantly differently, Morrigan from Darkstalkers for the Dreamcast fan who is also a Darkstalkers / Vampire Chronicle fan (probably not uncommon)
Cons: standard difficulty (which a lot of people refuse to switch down from, especially people who are used to easy games) is one of the hardest 1-ALLs out there, not to speak of a 2-ALL, Still pretty expensive by used non-shmup game standards
5.) Giga Wing
Why I would recommend: Haven't really played this one too much, but it's a classic game with good mechanics, and good level design. Somewhat forgiving due to the fact that you can shield and bomb. Good atmosphere and varied characters that feel different. Can sometimes be found new for $30, though I think it's usually around the same price for a good condition used copy. Cutscenes that might motivate you to try to get further. One stage that can only be accessed by not continuing, which might motivate someone
Cons: Not arcade perfect, and actually harder than the arcade by most accounts. $30 is still expensive for a used game. Not enough extends to actually make it forgiving.
6.) Mars Matrix
Why I would recommend: The pinnacle of all shmups from when it was first release until forever. Best scoring system. Also very fun to play for survival. Excellent mechanics and level design. I have heard accounts of people who otherwise don't care for shmups finding this one very addictive, or people who dislike danmaku games, and prefer old school games (In spite of MM having a small hitbox and patterns that require it, though I would call it manic rather than danmaku). Improved over the arcade, but not very different overall. Good atmosphere with accessible sci fi theme (a lot easier to sell to people, who aren't already into japanese stuff, than lolis, let me tell you). Shop system might help motivate one to improve (though it's pretty lame, actually).
Cons: none. J/K. I would say that the main issue is that it's pretty hard for a one loop game, might be too punishing for your average newbie (but, again, some people get into shmups because they are hard as balls rather than in spite of). $50 (last I checked) is pretty good for a DC shmup, but not great for a used game, even a used shmup. dull visuals. unremarkable music (though it fits very well with the level design)
I would probably never recommend Mars Matrix or Gunbird 2 to a beginner, as such, but I think you could do a lot worse, and I think people might find, in the case of Mars Matrix, that the originality makes it more interesting than something straightforward, and Gunbird 2 is pretty playable and addictive if you can accept that you're not looping arcade difficulty any time soon. Also PC games are probably a better choice in general than Dreamcast, to start out with, even for Dreamcast fans.
1.) Drill (demo)
Why I would recommend: Free (no link, because I think it's only really hosted on pirate sites these days. The developer did release the demo for free before they kind of collapsed and stopped working on it. Their site's been down for a while now), Pretty fun gameplay. Only one stage and two difficulties, so "clearing" it is something that a beginner could feasibly do (The demo is all that's left and it's only the first stage). pretty good music
Cons: Very rough around the edges, somewhat convoluted mechanics, Not everyone likes one stage games, CD-Rs will gradually wear down the laser, though I think Drill loads everything into RAM, at least.
2.) Sturmwind
Why I would recommend: Has a stage select mode that could be played more like modern games with discrete challenges (like rRootage), very easy arcade mode with no continues, even on hard difficulty, but not necessarily easy to beginners (Took me a while to clear it), this is the first shmup I ever played (excluding golden age games like Galaga). The visuals make it feel a bit more like it's using your dreamcast in a way that earlier consoles would probably fail at, though I'm not sure if it's really true. Accessible sci fi theme, and lots of references to retro shooters (Late 80s - mid 90s), pretty good OST
Cons: Kinda euroey, really easy, normal mode is way too long to actually clear in one sitting (Probably like and hour and a half). Asking price is probably going to be around $60 dollars (Though I haven't checked for like a year), which is probably gonna be too steep for someone who isn't pretty gung ho about the Dreamcast. Patterns aren't danmaku-like.
3.) Fast Striker 1.5
Why I would recommend: Most easily available Dreamcast shmups are really hard games (Gunbird 2 or Mars Matrix, for example), the exception is going to be the indie releases. Personally, I think Fast Striker is the best indie release for the DC (Though I haven't played all of them). It's got multiple modes that play pretty differently, danmaku-type patterns, interesting mechanics (bidirectional shot, the bullet eating shields that are kind of like bombs), but not way different from the norm, an excellent OST, pretty forgiving difficulty (though the lack of practice mode makes it a lot harder than it otherwise would be), and decent enemy / bullet patterns. Scenery that affects gameplay a little bit, though not a lot, might appeal to the types who think standard danmaku games don't have enough of that.
Cons: Once again $60. Someone who's really into Dreamcast or shmups might not mind, but someone who just has a DC sitting around probably would. Some of the pros could easily be construed as flaws to someone who just wanted to get good at CAVE games, for example (mostly those that make it not a purely bullet dodging game with only shot and bomb), novice mode kind of sucks (IMHO), dull graphics, originally designed for 16 bit early 90s hardware. Some have also complained about level design not being up to japanese developer standards, which is probably true. I still think it's fun, though
4.) Gunbird 2 (DC version)
Why I would recommend: Yeah, this is not a great choice for beginners. It's probably one of the most punishing games ever (and a 1-ALL is totally harder than a Mars Matrix 1cc). However, the DC version has a few things going for it. For one, it does have several different difficulties, and unlike most arcade shooters, I think the easier-than-arcade difficulties were pretty well thought out and well designed. I'd suggest starting on Child, probably. That's the only one I've cleared (Very Easy is still pretty hard, and Easy feels more or less the same as normal). The game is also (last I checked) cheaper than any other Dreamcast shmups (around $20). Apart from that, it's a top-tier game, and was pretty addictive to me even though I probably still don't stand a chance at clearing it any time soon, as my second shmup. Comedic cut scenes, lots of characters that play significantly differently, Morrigan from Darkstalkers for the Dreamcast fan who is also a Darkstalkers / Vampire Chronicle fan (probably not uncommon)
Cons: standard difficulty (which a lot of people refuse to switch down from, especially people who are used to easy games) is one of the hardest 1-ALLs out there, not to speak of a 2-ALL, Still pretty expensive by used non-shmup game standards
5.) Giga Wing
Why I would recommend: Haven't really played this one too much, but it's a classic game with good mechanics, and good level design. Somewhat forgiving due to the fact that you can shield and bomb. Good atmosphere and varied characters that feel different. Can sometimes be found new for $30, though I think it's usually around the same price for a good condition used copy. Cutscenes that might motivate you to try to get further. One stage that can only be accessed by not continuing, which might motivate someone
Cons: Not arcade perfect, and actually harder than the arcade by most accounts. $30 is still expensive for a used game. Not enough extends to actually make it forgiving.
6.) Mars Matrix
Why I would recommend: The pinnacle of all shmups from when it was first release until forever. Best scoring system. Also very fun to play for survival. Excellent mechanics and level design. I have heard accounts of people who otherwise don't care for shmups finding this one very addictive, or people who dislike danmaku games, and prefer old school games (In spite of MM having a small hitbox and patterns that require it, though I would call it manic rather than danmaku). Improved over the arcade, but not very different overall. Good atmosphere with accessible sci fi theme (a lot easier to sell to people, who aren't already into japanese stuff, than lolis, let me tell you). Shop system might help motivate one to improve (though it's pretty lame, actually).
Cons: none. J/K. I would say that the main issue is that it's pretty hard for a one loop game, might be too punishing for your average newbie (but, again, some people get into shmups because they are hard as balls rather than in spite of). $50 (last I checked) is pretty good for a DC shmup, but not great for a used game, even a used shmup. dull visuals. unremarkable music (though it fits very well with the level design)
I would probably never recommend Mars Matrix or Gunbird 2 to a beginner, as such, but I think you could do a lot worse, and I think people might find, in the case of Mars Matrix, that the originality makes it more interesting than something straightforward, and Gunbird 2 is pretty playable and addictive if you can accept that you're not looping arcade difficulty any time soon. Also PC games are probably a better choice in general than Dreamcast, to start out with, even for Dreamcast fans.
YouTube | Restart Syndrome | 1cclist | Go Play Mars Matrix
Solunas wrote:How to Takumi your scoring system
1) Create Scoring System
2) Make it a multiplier for your actual score
-
To Far Away Times
- Posts: 2068
- Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:42 am
Re: Accessible and awesome shooting games (for new players??
Might as well start with Futari.
With its tremendous production values and design, good difficulty for new players (Black Label), and easy to understand scoring mechanics, it's just an all around fantastic game.
With its tremendous production values and design, good difficulty for new players (Black Label), and easy to understand scoring mechanics, it's just an all around fantastic game.
-
Special World
- Posts: 2220
- Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:12 am
Re: Accessible and awesome shooting games (for new players??
I prefer the visual design of Futari to that of Akai Katana and almost any scrolling shooter out there, but a large majority of videogame players would be *completely* turned off by a vibrant game where you control a pink-haired female anime character riding a beetle and blasting evil lobsters. This may not be the case in Finland but I assure you it's the case in the United States.Cagar wrote:And even if we're talking about themes, the theme being good because of ROCKING FIGHTER PLANES!! is so subjective that it's not relevant and should be forgotten in this whole discussion
http://catstronaut.wordpress.com/
- catstronaut loves games
-
Special World
- Posts: 2220
- Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:12 am
Re: Accessible and awesome shooting games (for new players??
Also, a question: Do you guys have any recommendations for DS and 3DS? All I can think of are Big Bang Mini and Recca Summer Carnival. How's Metal Torrent? Steel Empire is probably a pretty good game but I can't convince myself to pay $30 for a digital download, especially when it looks incredibly Euroshmup. It does look fun but I can't get myself to buy it when there are so many other things I should play first.
http://catstronaut.wordpress.com/
- catstronaut loves games
Re: Accessible and awesome shooting games (for new players??
Metal Torrent is awesome, I recommend it for people familiar with the genre. Don't know if it'd be something a new player could get into though, the real fun is in the scoring.
@trap0xf | daifukkat.su/blog | scores | FIRE LANCER
<S.Yagawa> I like the challenge of "doing the impossible" with older hardware, and pushing it as far as it can go.
<S.Yagawa> I like the challenge of "doing the impossible" with older hardware, and pushing it as far as it can go.
-
LordHypnos
- Posts: 2014
- Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:59 pm
- Location: Mars Colony, 2309
Re: Accessible and awesome shooting games (for new players??
Yeah, Metal Torrent is super score focused. It's probably a bit out there to be recommending to newbies, but it is cheap and relatively low difficulty (especially with the accipiteur--so easy I blind 1LC'd it). Definitely an interesting game that I ought to get back to one of these days.
YouTube | Restart Syndrome | 1cclist | Go Play Mars Matrix
Solunas wrote:How to Takumi your scoring system
1) Create Scoring System
2) Make it a multiplier for your actual score
Re: Accessible and awesome shooting games (for new players??
The game I really have to recommend as a beginner is Dodonpachi Resurrection for iOS and Android.
The platform is available to almost everyone, and the game is not expensive. You get to play Cave's best known title in its full form, and you can play it literally anywhere, any time. It has a practice mode with some handy features. Phones have a natural Tate mode!
The best thing about it though is that you get to learn how to dodge without the added risk that comes from ship speed restrictions in the proper version. You can use any ship type and still move around as fast as your finger can go, not to mention travelling in smooth curves as opposed to 8 directions only.
This makes the phone version a very handy sketch pad for trying out ideas and learning to dodge. Once you've got the hang of it, you can easily take your ideas back to the real 360 version. It's not too hard to refine your basic phone route to take account of ship speed.
Last week I managed to 1-all the phone version after many months of casual play. This would not have been possible if I couldn't practice anywhere, including packed underground trains on the way to work etc.
Not too sure about the other Cave phone ports, the controls felt unwieldy on the Mushihime games and especially Galuda II. Danmaku Unlimited however is also *GREAT* for dodge training on the phone.
The platform is available to almost everyone, and the game is not expensive. You get to play Cave's best known title in its full form, and you can play it literally anywhere, any time. It has a practice mode with some handy features. Phones have a natural Tate mode!
The best thing about it though is that you get to learn how to dodge without the added risk that comes from ship speed restrictions in the proper version. You can use any ship type and still move around as fast as your finger can go, not to mention travelling in smooth curves as opposed to 8 directions only.
This makes the phone version a very handy sketch pad for trying out ideas and learning to dodge. Once you've got the hang of it, you can easily take your ideas back to the real 360 version. It's not too hard to refine your basic phone route to take account of ship speed.
Last week I managed to 1-all the phone version after many months of casual play. This would not have been possible if I couldn't practice anywhere, including packed underground trains on the way to work etc.
Not too sure about the other Cave phone ports, the controls felt unwieldy on the Mushihime games and especially Galuda II. Danmaku Unlimited however is also *GREAT* for dodge training on the phone.

Re: Accessible and awesome shooting games (for new players??
The passage read "a warzone rocking fighter planes...etc" as in a slang possessive - not 'rocking fighter planes' as a heavy metal euphemism. Reading is hard I know.Cagar wrote: And even if we're talking about themes, the theme being good because of ROCKING FIGHTER PLANES!! is so subjective that it's not relevant and should be forgotten in this whole discussion
The semantics ever.Art style =/= theme.

You know exactly what he was talking about - only a complete idiot wouldn't. I have no idea why you bothered challenging it. Boredom?
Always outnumbered, never outgunned - No zuo no die
ChurchOfSolipsism wrote: ALso, this is how SKykid usually posts
-
Obiwanshinobi
- Posts: 7470
- Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:14 am
Re: Accessible and awesome shooting games (for new players??
Raiden III (worked for a couple of folks I recommended it to). Is a blast in co-op as well.
Warning Forever.
Warning Forever.
The rear gate is closed down
The way out is cut off

The way out is cut off

Re: Accessible and awesome shooting games (for new players??
I will second this. I played it on the 3DS and 1cc'ed this game. The difficulty on this game is very low and high score chasing is why you would replay this game. It's fun overall though just to take a break from bullet hell.LordHypnos wrote:Yeah, Metal Torrent is super score focused. It's probably a bit out there to be recommending to newbies, but it is cheap and relatively low difficulty (especially with the accipiteur--so easy I blind 1LC'd it). Definitely an interesting game that I ought to get back to one of these days.
Re: Accessible and awesome shooting games (for new players??
They run about 1500 yen new, and you can find all of them from EoSD on in pretty much any doujin store.Despatche wrote:I don't know how much it (2hu) would cost to order one in japan or buy a copy from a doujin shop, though
---
I'll second Darius Gaiden since I'm biased, but it's unfortunately not that easy to get for a really new casual player, since it's either Saturn or JPS2. G I'm not so sure about being beginner friendly, it looks great visually but it's a little bit too complex for my taste and seems to emphasize memorization and routing far more than Gaiden does. Good game but maybe not good as "My First Darius" training wheels.
And I've gotta agree with DanMagoo actually, Cave's iOS stuff is probably the very very best choice for beginners, for all the reasons he pointed out. Even as a serious player I think the freedom of the touch controls helped teach me a lot about the genre when I was first starting out on the 1cc path. Only unfortunate thing is most casual players think $15 for an iOS game is highway robbery, and it's hard to blame them given the quality of 99% of the library.
But more so thank DFK, Maximum is probably the best of Cave's iOS games for beginners. The adaptive difficulty and extremely intuitive simple controls feel absolutely perfect. You can really tell it was designed specifically for the iPhone. And it's a pretty challenging game even for serious players if you are pursuing lower paths. I've often heard people talking about how it can't be 1cc-ed because your lives are reset between stages, but I disagree. It's definitely exciting and difficult to try to do an entire 1 -> 5 run without failing.
-
EmperorIng
- Posts: 5240
- Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:22 am
- Location: Chicago, IL
Re: Accessible and awesome shooting games (for new players??
It's on the US PS2 as well, along with G-Darius.
While Darius Gaiden drew me into shmups with its bizarre surreal visuals and ease-of-play, I can tout myself as a bit of a 'special snowflake' in that regard, because I know a lot of people look at it and say the game is too weird for them.
Hence my initial recommendations of Raiden IV and Gradius V: they're easily accessible, have instantly relatable themes (space/sci-fi), and are of high quality.
While I like Cave games, some of the stuff might be off-putting, because again, visuals and aesthetics do matter - I think Gradius was appealing for a long time because of its "timelessness" in a sense. Same with Raiden. A Cave game like Ketsui, DOJ, or Akai Katana are easier to recommend than the little girl-filled DFK or the colorful Mushihimesama Futari. Of all of those games, as well, only one is easily accessible and cheap (Akai Katana). It would win in that regard for me, even if its game mechanics might strike people as a little weird (I haven't played it, but doesn't it have a familiar system similar to Guwange?).
While Darius Gaiden drew me into shmups with its bizarre surreal visuals and ease-of-play, I can tout myself as a bit of a 'special snowflake' in that regard, because I know a lot of people look at it and say the game is too weird for them.
Hence my initial recommendations of Raiden IV and Gradius V: they're easily accessible, have instantly relatable themes (space/sci-fi), and are of high quality.
While I like Cave games, some of the stuff might be off-putting, because again, visuals and aesthetics do matter - I think Gradius was appealing for a long time because of its "timelessness" in a sense. Same with Raiden. A Cave game like Ketsui, DOJ, or Akai Katana are easier to recommend than the little girl-filled DFK or the colorful Mushihimesama Futari. Of all of those games, as well, only one is easily accessible and cheap (Akai Katana). It would win in that regard for me, even if its game mechanics might strike people as a little weird (I haven't played it, but doesn't it have a familiar system similar to Guwange?).

DEMON'S TILT [bullet hell pinball] - Music Composer || EC2151 ~ My FM/YM2612 music & more! || 1CC List || PCE-CD: The Search for Quality
Re: Accessible and awesome shooting games (for new players??
Nah it's different from Guwange, it's more like a lockable option and a power up mode. AK is a very bad choice for new players imo, because it just doesn't make any goddam sense and makes no attempt to teach you how to properly approach it. A few of my non-shmup player friends tried it out at my place because they were attracted to the visuals, but hated it and began to assume that all modern shmups must be list it.
Can't argue with you on Gradius' classic vibe, but I think the series trademark recovery is way too frustrating for modern Casual players and V in particular will make an inexperienced player assume the genre is just totally impossible. Were I going to recommend a Gradius title it would be SFC III, despite it's flaws.
Can't argue with you on Gradius' classic vibe, but I think the series trademark recovery is way too frustrating for modern Casual players and V in particular will make an inexperienced player assume the genre is just totally impossible. Were I going to recommend a Gradius title it would be SFC III, despite it's flaws.
Re: Accessible and awesome shooting games (for new players??
Recently I've been pleasantly surprised by the FC version of Gradius, via the eshop. Unlike FC Salamander and Gradius II I never liked it enough to own in addition to the PS1 Deluxe Packs, but as something a bit simpler to play on the bus/train it works superbly. Looking at it from a beginner's perspective I could see it imparting some classic shooting fundamentals without scaring or boring anyone (the latter two ports aren't arcade-tough but their opening stages can both stomp newbies pretty hard). It's fast-paced, solidly built, has catchy tunes, and the NES/"retro" nostalgia value doesn't hurt either.Special World wrote:Also, a question: Do you guys have any recommendations for DS and 3DS? All I can think of are Big Bang Mini and Recca Summer Carnival. How's Metal Torrent? Steel Empire is probably a pretty good game but I can't convince myself to pay $30 for a digital download, especially when it looks incredibly Euroshmup. It does look fun but I can't get myself to buy it when there are so many other things I should play first.

光あふれる 未来もとめて, whoa~oh ♫
[THE MIRAGE OF MIND] Metal Black ST [THE JUSTICE MASSACRE] Gun.Smoke ST [STAB & STOMP]
Re: Accessible and awesome shooting games (for new players??
I knew exactly what you meant with that rock-plane metal band when I quoted it.Skykid wrote:The passage read "a warzone rocking fighter planes...etc" as in a slang possessive - not 'rocking fighter planes' as a heavy metal euphemism. Reading is hard I know.Cagar wrote: And even if we're talking about themes, the theme being good because of ROCKING FIGHTER PLANES!! is so subjective that it's not relevant and should be forgotten in this whole discussion
The semantics ever.Art style =/= theme.![]()
You know exactly what he was talking about - only a complete idiot wouldn't. I have no idea why you bothered challenging it. Boredom?

Ooooonce again you're calling other forum member a 'complete idiot'. I really wish that you had lower post-count so that a ban wouldn't crash the economy of the off-topic sex tourists.
Skykid kiltti, vaikka olisinkin lukenut väärin, niin älä ole aina noin itsekeskeinen
Regarding subject:
Okay, heavy metal fighters might appeal to more people, but i wouldn't think that it's that big of a deal, when mushihimesama is conceptually just as flashy and exploding visually. (didn't someone make a thread about how much he enjoys futari while listening to black metal?

You can of course list a few games in your article, and I think that most people here agree that futari deserves the mention.

god i sound like a cave salesman
Re: Accessible and awesome shooting games (for new players??
*Fistbump*ACSeraph wrote:And I've gotta agree with DanMagoo actually, Cave's iOS stuff is probably the very very best choice for beginners, for all the reasons he pointed out. Even as a serious player I think the freedom of the touch controls helped teach me a lot about the genre when I was first starting out on the 1cc path. Only unfortunate thing is most casual players think $15 for an iOS game is highway robbery, and it's hard to blame them given the quality of 99% of the library.
But more so thank DFK, Maximum is probably the best of Cave's iOS games for beginners. The adaptive difficulty and extremely intuitive simple controls feel absolutely perfect. You can really tell it was designed specifically for the iPhone. And it's a pretty challenging game even for serious players if you are pursuing lower paths. I've often heard people talking about how it can't be 1cc-ed because your lives are reset between stages, but I disagree. It's definitely exciting and difficult to try to do an entire 1 -> 5 run without failing.
Last edited by DanMagoo on Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Accessible and awesome shooting games (for new players??
LordHypnos wrote:
For the very small number of people who are into Dreamcast and are wanting to try shmups (I used to be in this category, but also I know a lot of people who still have Dreamcasts collecting dust somewhere), I would recommend a few things, although I don't think there's anything that's a perfect call for it. Not really in a particular order (spoilered because this is a pretty uncommon kind of beginner to find, and it's a super long post):
2.) Sturmwind
Why I would recommend: Has a stage select mode that could be played more like modern games with discrete challenges (like rRootage), very easy arcade mode with no continues, even on hard difficulty, but not necessarily easy to beginners (Took me a while to clear it), this is the first shmup I ever played (excluding golden age games like Galaga). The visuals make it feel a bit more like it's using your dreamcast in a way that earlier consoles would probably fail at, though I'm not sure if it's really true. Accessible sci fi theme, and lots of references to retro shooters (Late 80s - mid 90s), pretty good OST
Cons: Kinda euroey, really easy, normal mode is way too long to actually clear in one sitting (Probably like and hour and a half). Asking price is probably going to be around $60 dollars (Though I haven't checked for like a year), which is probably gonna be too steep for someone who isn't pretty gung ho about the Dreamcast. Patterns aren't danmaku-like.

As far as cheap and more accessible shmups?
On the 360:
Valkyrius and Steam and Metal are both cheap and worth the sub $5 asking price.
And as someone else already mentioned...Blue Wish.
Show me everything you have, puppet of Geppetto.
Re: Accessible and awesome shooting games (for new players??
!!!!!Stevens wrote: Valkyrius
It's INSANE how little attention this game got. If it had just a tiiiny bit more polish and was published by Treasure for Xbox live, it would be a great, great game.
..but right now it's just a .. western doujin game that no-one cares about.
Damn I gotta play it now ->
-
Squire Grooktook
- Posts: 5997
- Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:39 am
Re: Accessible and awesome shooting games (for new players??
I love the shit out of Valkyrius.
Aeon Zenith - My STG.RegalSin wrote:Japan an almost perfect society always threatened by outsiders....................
Instead I am stuck in the America's where women rule with an iron crotch, and a man could get arrested for sitting behind a computer too long.
-
Special World
- Posts: 2220
- Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:12 am
Re: Accessible and awesome shooting games (for new players??
Guess I gotta try out Valkyrius!
http://catstronaut.wordpress.com/
- catstronaut loves games
-
Special World
- Posts: 2220
- Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:12 am
Re: Accessible and awesome shooting games (for new players??
The 360 sure dominated last gen... I can easily think of a bunch of games I would recommend to any shooting fan. The Wii and PS3 are more like "here's what I'll recommend you if you don't have a 360."
With the exception of the Wii Virtual Console, which is an amazing marketplace for scrolling shooters.
With the exception of the Wii Virtual Console, which is an amazing marketplace for scrolling shooters.
http://catstronaut.wordpress.com/
- catstronaut loves games