Mega Man Zero

[KindGrind]

I recently picked up a Gameboy Micro, and wanted to hear a bit about your impression on the series. I know the Zero collection exists, but I'd rather pick up the GBA carts and play on my little new machine.

How do these games compare to the Mega Man X series, for example, which are, for me, pinnacle of the series? I heard the Zero games are tough, which means they're right up my alley. Do you feel like it might be a problem playing on a tiny screen?

Any input appreciated!

Edit: typos!

[EmperorIng]

The first Zero game is very different from the rest of the series. The mission-based structure adds a bit of variety in the levels you choose, and depending on whether or not you fail or succeed in the missions. The game is almost-universally panned as being too difficult; no one can argue that at the least, it heavily punishes failure. The limited life system really is at fault here. You have to spend some time "grinding" to upgrade your abilities (the more you shoot the more your shot levels up, the more you use your saber the more effective it gets etc.). This thing carries over throughout the series, and while I don't exactly like it, for the most part it's pretty inoffensive. The first game is not too shabby, but I wouldn't call it amazing.

The second is in my opinion the best of the four. It ditches the mission structure for a more MMX-like level selection, and there are enough secrets and abilities (and items/cyber-elves) to make the playthrough enjoyable. The only hitch for me is that starting here, using all the cool cyber-elves actually prevents you from learning the boss attacks after each level, which means you have all these things and no real opportunity to use them, at least on specific playthroughs. It's up to you to figure out what's worth it.

The third is more of the same, with good levels and difficulty. I hated the plot (lol) though which means I like it less.

I never finished Zero 4. By that time too much consecutive Zero burned me out. I wasn't feeling it. Others call it a great end to the series though.

I think if there is one game from the series you should play, it would be Zero 2. Zero 3 would come next. While I didn't mind Zero 1, and I had fun with it, it is tough to absolutely recommend.

All of these games are about 100x better than Megaman and Bass (GBA), for general MM reference.

[Pretas]

You should go back and finish Zero 4, it's by far and away the pinnacle of the series. It's also much easier to acquire EX Skills, since you only need to beat each mission with the harder weather setting (adding extra hazards and a new attack for each boss). The apocalyptic final stage and confrontation with Dr. Vile/Weil is without a doubt the most dramatic sequence in any Rockman game.

Zero 3 is my least favorite. Stage and boss designs were somewhat underwhelming (Omega in particular is a total pushover, despite being the penultimate boss), and it's quite easy to extend your maximum life capacity to extreme levels, eliminating most of the challenge. I also have no idea what Inti was trying to do with "cyberspace mode."

Note that Zero 3 has an assortment of extra content, distributed on E-Reader cards in Japan, that is inaccessible in the US/PAL GBA versions. The extras were included as unlockables on the DS collection in all regions.

[ColonelFatso]

My chief problem with MMZ is the cramped viewing area compared to the size of Zero - then again, compared to the classic series, MMX is a little cramped too, but not to a debilitating extent. I died way too many times to spike floors which were placed just out of visibility to have any fun playing it. I was put off enough to not even bother with the other games - perhaps they're better at working with the real estate available on screen, but I just can't get that sour taste out of my mouth.

[Pretas]

You're supposed to slowly slide down walls in obstacle courses full of spikes instead of blindly jumping down shafts.

It may be little consolation, but there is a cyber-elf in Zero 1 that permanently covers all spikes in the game with ice once used. Of course it takes a long time to grind enough crystals to use it.

[ColonelFatso]

That's not really what I'm getting at. I like the danger of spikes and bottomless pits in Rockman games, it's just that if the game is designed to punish you for completing stages slowly - which it is, to an extent, even on your first playthrough when you're not going for S ranks - the stage layouts shouldn't revolve around visibility-based trial and error or sliding slowly down every wall just in case there's a spike trap at the bottom.

[Wooph]

The screen is definitely cramped. Zero was too big for the GBA's screen. Getting high ranks involves memorizing the stage. About two months ago I replayed the first game to really hammer out the boss fights and generally found that the most enjoyable fights are the ones that take place in a roughly screen sized room.

[Captain]

Imo the Zero games start off as too hard, but become ridiculously easy after some practice. Basically because there are no "wild card" moments where you can lose even when prepared.

Best in the series is probably Z2 or Z3. Z4 is not such a great ending until you reach the final missions and final boss. On the other hand Z1 is much more...bland than the others, but as with most sequels, you can see the originality in it. and it is still very enjoyable.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Didn't really played any, but I don't like this kind of blown-up graphics on handhelds.*) Everything's bigger than it needs to, meaning you see less of everything at once. Mega Man & Bass looks blown-up for a good reason and still shows more of playfield.

*) Aliren Soldier isn't on handheld, but does the same.

[Captain]

There are two versions of Mega man and Bass, and one of them isn't even blown up.

[Moniker]

Loved all the Zero games. The first is good but has its share of problems - easily worth playing; the others are just great. I'd have to agree that 4 is probably the best. Really liked 3 as well. Never really felt the pinch of inadequate screen real estate, but I never went for high ranks, either. I like the inclusion of rank; gives you a more dynamic difficulty. May have to give 'em another playthrough, since it's been awhile.

There's lots of discussion of the series in the Mega Man Miscellanies thread.

[Leandro]

I also didn't play Zero 4 yet because of burn out.

Overall, I liked this series even better than the X games. Better paced and focused

[KindGrind]

Thanks for the input. I'm in the middle of a Zelda:TP run, but once I'm done I'll get one and try it out. Considering the games are like 10$/piece, it's not that big of a setback.

[Ruldra]

I also didn't play Zero 4 yet because of burn out.

Same here. Played through MMZ1-3, then the 4th game comes along and I'm like "Welp, this series will never end" and didn't bother with it. I was annoyed when I found out it was the last one, lol.

[Squire Grooktook]

Zero 4 is the best imo, Zero 1 is the worst.

Zero 1 = every environment recycled twice, and the level design isn't that great to begin with. The last few stages are fun, and it's still a fun game, but it's a bit lacking compared to the others.

Zero 2 = Polished and improved Zero 1. Better level design and more challenging and tight bosses. Seemingly recycles a few areas like Zero 1, but features completely new level design for every area so it's a much more varied experience.

Zero 3 = insanely content heavy. Probably the longest Mega Man game ever. Pretty solid throughout.

Zero 4 = The best IMO. Best level design, best boss design, and best finalie. One of the best in the entire MM franchise IMO.

How do these games compare to the Mega Man X series, for example, which are, for me, pinnacle of the series?

IMO they surpass the X series, though your mileage may vary on this. The level design in the Zero series I've always found to be much more solid and consistent overall.

Imo the Zero games start off as too hard, but become ridiculously easy after some practice. Basically because there are no "wild card" moments where you can lose even when prepared.

I think this is present to some degree, but not quite. There are a few wild card areas here and there, it's just the problem is that the games aren't structured like arcade games, so the occasional place where you have to just react or improvise based on a randomized boss attack or ai don't mean much when you have all the tries and attempts in the world to pull it off. I mentioned this before, but it's pretty much the "issue" with all the MM games for me, and pretty much any non arcade styled action game in general.

[Pretas]

The first three X games on SFC are quite solid, especially the third. The 32-bit trilogy took a huge dive in quality, with far more simplified and linear stages and often near-nonexistent difficulty. X5 does have an interesting time limit running through the whole game to create tension and prevent you from grinding for powerups too much, though. It was actually intended to be the end of the X series.

X7 and X8 are weird games that feel like part of a different series, developed by the no-name studio ValueWave. The former is widely considered the worst X sequel, and has a notoriety similar to Sonic 2006 with fans.

Can't speak for Command Mission.

[Moniker]

How do these games compare to the Mega Man X series, for example, which are, for me, pinnacle of the series?

IMO they surpass the X series, though your mileage may vary on this. The level design in the Zero series I've always found to be much more solid and consistent overall.

Mega Man X is undoubtedly a masterpiece unsurpassed by anything else in the MM repertoire, save maybe Mega Man 10. X3 and X4 are awesome tier; I'm not too fond of X2, but many disagree. I think anyone would agree that X5 on gets pretty patchy. As you said, Zero is solid and far more consistent than X, although its high points don't equal up to the highs of X... mainly referring to the first installment.

Still a firm devotee of the classic series. Ten sequels that are all insanely good? Unheard of in gaming or anywhere else.

[Mortificator]

I like all the console X games as well. X7 becomes more fun after X is unlocked and all the characters are maxed-out with power chips, which unfortunately takes three playthroughs. I ran through it again on a complete file after I beat X8 was surprised how much I enjoyed it. Like Xtreme 2's mandatory separate missions for X and Zero, X7's character-building nonsense should have never been there in the first place.

[KindGrind]

I played X7 only because I had this idea of beating all Mega Man games at some point. I almost gave up because of it. X8 didn't really fare a lot better. I don't remember much of the games, mind you - only a feeling of chore/sigh/sweat all together. Hard to explain.

X3 is also one of the weakest entries in the series, imo, but I know some of you loved it.

X is quintessential Mega Man, much like Mega Man 2 is. These 2 really do stand apart, with X4 following shortly after. Anyways.

I'll look into Zero - awesome feedback, people. I knew the shmup forums had an educated opinion on this series!

[Captain]

The first three X games on SFC are quite solid, especially the third. The 32-bit trilogy took a huge dive in quality, with far more simplified and linear stages and often near-nonexistent difficulty. X5 does have an interesting time limit running through the whole game to create tension and prevent you from grinding for powerups too much, though. It was actually intended to be the end of the X series.

X7 and X8 are weird games that feel like part of a different series, developed by the no-name studio ValueWave. The former is widely considered the worst X sequel, and has a notoriety similar to Sonic 2006 with fans.

Can't speak for Command Mission.

X6 is balls-hard, but also very weird to play, hence people forget it even exists.

[Wyrmnus]

Megaman Zero 4 is my favorite Megaman game, hands down. Dat Area Zero theme.

[CStarFlare]

X3 is also one of the weakest entries in the series, imo, but I know some of you loved it.

I played X3 earlier this week and shut it off after the eight bosses. Wanted to stop sooner.

I've owned it for years and probably finished it once. There's nothing obviously wrong with it, it just fails to connect - I do think the additional unnecessarily added collectibles detracted from the overall game. I feel a pull when I know there's a chip/ride armor right over there but I don't really think either adds to the game so I pass it by and end up feeling weird about it. It's different than a head piece, which has always been worthless but somehow felt worth getting. Zero was a thing but similarly almost not using. I forget he's there, partially because the game doesn't seem to want him there.

When I was young, X3 was awesome because it had so much stuff. Now that I'm older, X2 is awesome because it seems like a refinement of the original that distinguished itself with quality rather than new things. There's something special about X2's music, too. I dig the rhythm instrumentation.

On topic - I played Zero 1 quite a bit trying to get perfect ranks on everything. I gave up before succeeding, but I feel the fact that I 1) wanted to play the game at that level and 2) stuck with it for quite a while speaks to how highly I thought of it. I haven't played on a Micro, but I always assumed any sort of gaming on that thing would be a little sub-par and action gaming especially so.

[KindGrind]

On topic - I played Zero 1 quite a bit trying to get perfect ranks on everything. I gave up before succeeding, but I feel the fact that I 1) wanted to play the game at that level and 2) stuck with it for quite a while speaks to how highly I thought of it. I haven't played on a Micro, but I always assumed any sort of gaming on that thing would be a little sub-par and action gaming especially so.

I did play Advance Guardian Heroes and could do pretty well on the tiny screen. Not a difficult game by any stretch, but playable.

If I were to pick only one Zero game as a starting point, would it make sense for me to skip the first game (as from the comments I've gotten from users here, it's not excellent) and start with the second or third? Would I really be missing out?

[CStarFlare]

Based on what they're saying, if you have any interest in playing them all and enjoying them, starting at the beginning is the way to go. 1 will probably feel like a step back after a later game. If you just want to see Zero at its zenith then one of the others is the way to go.

[Squire Grooktook]

Based on what they're saying, if you have any interest in playing them all and enjoying them, starting at the beginning is the way to go. 1 will probably feel like a step back after a later game. If you just want to see Zero at its zenith then one of the others is the way to go.

Yeah, I'd actually concede that. Zero 1 isn't bad, it's just each game got better and better IMO.

You can finish it relatively quickly too, and like all Mega Man games, it's a very compelling ride when you first pick it up.

[gct]

I actually want to go back and discuss the hardware.

I have a GameBoy Micro, and I love it - but for any extended gaming I start to feel like it is too much of a strain for my old eyes, and it becomes rather uncomfortable for anything requiring heavy shoulder button use. This is especially applicable to MMZ where you may need to dash and jump while charging a weapon, the miniature size of the GBM doesn't give much purchase for holding on.

As a result of this I went on craigslist and picked up one (actually two) of the AGS-101 backlit GBA SP and enjoy the experience much more. I had a front-lit version for a very long time since they were still in production and it was always my preferred form factor for GBA hardware (I have 2x GBA, 3x GBA SP, 1x GBM, 2x NDSL and 1x GBP if that counts)

If you don't have a GBA SP I would recommend picking up a used AGS-101 model to give it a try - they cost hardly anything these days.

[mamboFoxtrot]

X6 is balls-hard, but also very weird to play, hence people forget it even exists.

And the people who do remember it often put it in the same "Sonic '06" level territory...
Its not that bad, but it is quite the rush job. I think it was released just seven months after X5. Because of this, some of the stages are very lazy, and there's some silly glitches and such. While it has some cool ideas, bosses, weapons and such, it also has a lot of bad ones. It has an unhealthy obsession with RNG, enemy spam, recycled gimmicks, and revisiting stages to get parts/armors/upgrades/etc. The Nightmare system could have been a pretty cool extension of the level effects in X1, but mostly its just really damn annoying.
Oh well, it did lead to one of my favorite commentated challenge runs on YouTube.

As for the Zero series, I have 2~4, but I haven't played them too much yet. I don't feel like they make good handheld games since the stages can be kind of long and there are many unskippable dialogue scenes (and unfortunately no "Sleep Mode" option). The GBA SP is also not very comfortable to use for extended periods of time, especially when using the shoulder buttons.
I fucking love that Zero Knuckle, though. Its like taking the whole Robot Master weapon concept and going full Kirby-mode with it. You can also angle it downwards and look like you're grabbing people's junk...

[Moniker]

The GBA SP is also not very comfortable to use for extended periods of time, especially when using the shoulder buttons.
I fucking love that Zero Knuckle, though. Its like taking the whole Robot Master weapon concept and going full Kirby-mode with it. You can also angle it downwards and look like you're grabbing people's junk...

I recommend playing the whole series on an lcfw-ized PSP. There's a really awesome GBA emulator for it. Far better than the shite SNES emulators (don't get me wrong.. I can play Metroid Super Zero Mission on it). Nintendo made some badass handhelds, but none of them are very ergonomic. Still, they continue to own the best d-pad ever. The WiiU Gamepad FTW. Once they put the Zero series on it, I'll be all over it.

[Pretas]

Or you could pick up the Zero Collection for DS, which is by far and away the recommended option for playing the series. All the formerly Japan-only e-Reader content from Zero 3 is included, there's an unlockable gallery, and you can configure the controls to the X/Y buttons.

[copy-paster]

The hardest one for me may be Z1 (even the creators want the game being the hardest game ever), cause for it's poor cyber-elf system, some bosses are unbeatable without grinding all your weapons, limited player attacks and abilities, etc but the story are great and worth to play.

The second and third one is the best in the series and also my favorite Zero games, it gives more player abilities (EX skills) and various attack patterns, balanced level design and enemy attack patterns which it's still challenging but fair, reducing cyber-elves system to make the game more enjoyable. The only flaw is if you use too many cyber-elves it makes the player rank decreased, which if you didn't reaching A or S rank after completing each level you didn't get a EX skills for bosses that you defeat, also Z2 has weak story development and dull endings while Z3 has best both story and endings in entire MM games IMO.

Well, Z4 for me it was so-so, Z3 was originally to be the end of the series according to the creator but Capcom gets out-of-the-money and wanted Inti to make this game. The story are bit imposed, some enemies are copy-edit-paste from previous series, and the level design are bit repetitive. Despite the flaws it has more easy ways to get EX skills, interesting item-crafting system, crazy final bosses, and both dramatic final scene and endings. I also like the moment while Zero eventually enjoying his "Dai-Ou-Jou".

I hope Capcom remakes these four games into consoles/PC with smaller sprite size, at least like MMX gameplay screen size...