gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thread
Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
IMO 3.5 is the only way to go. As you said, simple is best. One can always use adapters from there.
Would it reduce costs to not include a scart cable? Maybe you don't need to include one with every order. I could be wrong but I would think probably half of us use scart to bnc cables and already have them ready.
Would it reduce costs to not include a scart cable? Maybe you don't need to include one with every order. I could be wrong but I would think probably half of us use scart to bnc cables and already have them ready.
Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
I still need to do math, will do it once I will have boards here. Roughly what I saved on components was spent on board assembly so base price is the same. However I still have to solder SCARTs and other plastic components myself.Taiyaki wrote:IMO 3.5 is the only way to go. As you said, simple is best. One can always use adapters from there.
Would it reduce costs to not include a scart cable? Maybe you don't need to include one with every order. I could be wrong but I would think probably half of us use scart to bnc cables and already have them ready.
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Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
So your considering a 3.5 jack? Good on you.. well done!!!
This industry has become 2 dimensional as it transcended into a 3D world.
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Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
I'd be interested in taking you up on thisBuckoA51 wrote:If anyone in the UK wants one of these next batch I will pay your shipping costs if you let me borrow it for a few days to review.
Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
Put me down on the waiting list.
I want one of these for sure.
Out of curiosity, are these daisy chainable?
I may need to add a second by the end of the year.
I want one of these for sure.
Out of curiosity, are these daisy chainable?
I may need to add a second by the end of the year.
Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
Added to list.sazyario wrote:Put me down on the waiting list.
I want one of these for sure.
Out of curiosity, are these daisy chainable?
I may need to add a second by the end of the year.
Yes, daisy-chaining will work.
Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
I didn't said that .neorichieb1971 wrote:So your considering a 3.5 jack? Good on you.. well done!!!
Everything is based on demand. 4 people want JP21, 2 people - Mini-DIN->MiniDIN in addition to output SCART, and 2 more want some external audio option. It's difficult to please everybody. Also if I will start adding just random output connectors of different types it'll increase switch price, and majority of users will not like it. All of this can be implemented relatively easy through output SCART.
I write down every proposal here but currently majority of people are happy with switch as it is now, and I really don't want to do yet one more redesign, too much revisions etc.
Sorry.
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Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
Definite UK order here. Not sure if BuckoA51 still wants one for review, but I'll order one either way.
Could you add me to the list please superg?
Could you add me to the list please superg?
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Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
So is there a one stop place to buy scart leads then? quality ones?
Some of my scarts hum through the audio.
Some of my scarts hum through the audio.
This industry has become 2 dimensional as it transcended into a 3D world.
Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
Fair enough. However, this brings up another point. As I read that I thought to myself it's impossible - how can anybody drive four video lines with only 1mA? Then I read some posts on your other thread an realised how it works.superg wrote: Yeah, I know this. According to standard I shouldn't drain power from pin 8 but it's very convenient not to have external power supply and there aren't a lot of official cables now. Next version will have integrated DC jack on PCB (now it's floating cable which goes to board through SCART connector, not very handy but at least some compatibility). Another nice use-case with power over pin 8 is daisy chaining with only one external power supply. So simply it supports external power only on first switch link in daisy chain, and not relying on pin 8 or power from pin 8 from unofficial cables and IMO it's best compromise, user will decide what's best for him.
Also I would like to mention, that switch is almost transparent in terms of power consumption. If not lm1881 (which consumes up to 10mA), it consumes around 1mA. But I agree that having lm1881 on board is a good idea.
What you have built here is an automatic passive video switcher. The is not how video switch boxes are normally made. The conventional way is to terminate the video (at 75 ohms), use a CMOS multiplexer to switch between channels with a buffer amplifier on the output with 2x gain to drive the output. The on resistance of the multiplexer not very important now so you can use cheap switches like the SN74LV4053. But that's not the biggest advantage of this method.
The problem with the passive switch is that parasitic properties of the video cables get worse with the length. The quality of SCART cables is generally not good, but it's generally not a big problem if the cable lengths are kept below 2 metres. If you plug a game consoles into two passive SCART switches daisy chained from a with 1.5m long SCART interconnects you will have a 5m long transmission line of poorly defined impedance.
Oh yes, of course. I just meant to point out that the price of consumer electronics connectors may be lower than you expect. For example, you could buy 1000 pcs of good quality Taiwan made SCART connectors for US$210 from 4uconnector.com according to the currently listed prices. This way you can get the specific kind of connector you want (including colour!), rather than whatever the distributor feels like stocking.superg wrote:It's definitely nice suggestion, however I still need to figure out a demand for such a switch. I have no idea how many units I will be able to sell at all, and it's a bit risky to invest bigger amount of money for SCART sockets without knowing whether I will sell them all.viletim wrote: -For production volumes you can buy connectors directly from the connector factory. The prices are much lower than distributors and they can make them in any colour you like.
When I last looked I didn't find anything suitable from my usual wholesalers. The 8 pin mini DIN cables that I did find were old Apple Mac printer cables that have some wires crossed over. The cables I sell in my shop are made for me by a small cable factory in China.superg wrote:Yeah, but with MiniDIN I still need to solder the other end myself (being it SCART or another MiniDIN). I think I will use same straight SCART for output and by default I will provide SCART->SCART cable (which is standard, I will just need to find inexpensive source of them)viletim wrote: -It's a good idea to have both the mini-DIN8 and SCART connectors for output. Making special cables is no fun.
And as an option I will offer SCART->MiniDIN. BTW: where can I buy MiniDIN cable assembly like the one you're using in your NESRGB kit?
(digikey has this one: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/e ... ND/2625275, but I think it's too thick and expensive also)
Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
Do you mean picture integrity can be roughly measured by the length of the output cable + cable connecting the console to the box? In that case I'm pretty sure most will have 2m or more even without daisychaining.viletim wrote:The problem with the passive switch is that parasitic properties of the video cables get worse with the length. The quality of SCART cables is generally not good, but it's generally not a big problem if the cable lengths are kept below 2 metres. If you plug a game consoles into two passive SCART switches daisy chained from a with 1.5m long SCART interconnects you will have a 5m long transmission line of poorly defined impedance.
Would connecting the power supply remedy this?
Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
Have you ever tried using a non-powered VGA switchbox, e.g. a dumb N-way switch?
You notice the picture degrades really bad, you get ghosting, blurring, etc? Well... that's basically what will happen
unless you have a proper powered buffering amp circuit as mentioned above. Plugging in a power source
isn't going to help here since it will only power the auto-switching part.
You notice the picture degrades really bad, you get ghosting, blurring, etc? Well... that's basically what will happen
unless you have a proper powered buffering amp circuit as mentioned above. Plugging in a power source
isn't going to help here since it will only power the auto-switching part.
Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
Not quite.alamone wrote:Have you ever tried using a non-powered VGA switchbox, e.g. a dumb N-way switch?
You notice the picture degrades really bad, you get ghosting, blurring, etc? Well... that's basically what will happen
unless you have a proper powered buffering amp circuit as mentioned above. Plugging in a power source
isn't going to help here since it will only power the auto-switching part.
What viletim said is true, but such degradation is very relative. Few people here are using daisy-chaining with 2 switches and by default I supply 5ft cables (I use higher quality multi-thread acoustics cable for MiniDIN->SCART). So according to their and my testing it was still fine (and for my tests I used 3 switches sequentially and total cable length was 15ft). Don't forget that TV/XRGB has an internal amplifier inside.
Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
Agree, so much effort not to use external power supply. As I've said in my previous post, I tested 3 switches in sequential chain and wasn't able to notice any difference. And in real life there should be only 2 levels in hierarchy (parallel connection and not sequential), I doubt anybody will have more than 64 devices .viletim wrote: Fair enough. However, this brings up another point. As I read that I thought to myself it's impossible - how can anybody drive four video lines with only 1mA? Then I read some posts on your other thread an realised how it works.
What you have built here is an automatic passive video switcher. The is not how video switch boxes are normally made. The conventional way is to terminate the video (at 75 ohms), use a CMOS multiplexer to switch between channels with a buffer amplifier on the output with 2x gain to drive the output. The on resistance of the multiplexer not very important now so you can use cheap switches like the SN74LV4053. But that's not the biggest advantage of this method.
The problem with the passive switch is that parasitic properties of the video cables get worse with the length. The quality of SCART cables is generally not good, but it's generally not a big problem if the cable lengths are kept below 2 metres. If you plug a game consoles into two passive SCART switches daisy chained from a with 1.5m long SCART interconnects you will have a 5m long transmission line of poorly defined impedance.
Well, to be honest now I don't know what would be best solution. After all maybe relying solely on the power supply is not as bad idea as I thought initially.
Anyway I got PCB batch today, everything works perfectly, and now all official cables provide enough power (tried official PSX, Xbox and Dreamcast SCART's, everything is plug and play). Still when LM1881 is turned on and official cables are used, it needs external power.
Thanks for the link, I will keep that in mind!viletim wrote: Oh yes, of course. I just meant to point out that the price of consumer electronics connectors may be lower than you expect. For example, you could buy 1000 pcs of good quality Taiwan made SCART connectors for US$210 from 4uconnector.com according to the currently listed prices. This way you can get the specific kind of connector you want (including colour!), rather than whatever the distributor feels like stocking.
Oh, I've seen plenty of those crossed over on ebay.viletim wrote: When I last looked I didn't find anything suitable from my usual wholesalers. The 8 pin mini DIN cables that I did find were old Apple Mac printer cables that have some wires crossed over. The cables I sell in my shop are made for me by a small cable factory in China.
Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
What scart cables use LM1881? Do any of the retro console accessories cables on ebay use it?
Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
I've seen somewhere SMD2 cable with integrated lm1881.Taiyaki wrote:What scart cables use LM1881? Do any of the retro console accessories cables on ebay use it?
I need LM1881 only for my Mega Drive 2. Other people reported that they needed it also for some other consoles.
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Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
Depending on where you buy cables, they're labeled as "sync-strippers" or "sync-cleaners". Retro Console Accessories (Retro Accessories on the forum) labels them as sync-strippers.Taiyaki wrote:What scart cables use LM1881? Do any of the retro console accessories cables on ebay use it?
Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
Can I assume that since those made by Retro Accessories are not official cables they work without needing power?
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Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
Correct, it gets power from the +5v line provided by the console.Taiyaki wrote:Can I assume that since those made by Retro Accessories are not official cables they work without needing power?
And to be clear, the LM1881 circuit is normally in the XRGB mini adapters she sells. The circuit isn't in the cable she sells normally. I think the some of the Genesis cables are the exception though.
Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
Thank you, that makes sense.
Would installing the LED on the nesrgb scart by Tim make it so the gscartsw would require additional power?
http://etim.net.au/cable-adapter/scart- ... -guide.htm
Would installing the LED on the nesrgb scart by Tim make it so the gscartsw would require additional power?
http://etim.net.au/cable-adapter/scart- ... -guide.htm
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Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
what is that?Taiyaki wrote:Thank you, that makes sense.
Would installing the LED on the nesrgb scart by Tim make it so the gscartsw would require additional power?
http://etim.net.au/cable-adapter/scart- ... -guide.htm
Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
That's the Scart cable for the NES made by Tim, the same person who made the nesrgb. I was wondering whether it wouldn't be better not to install the LED in order to have it running without power on the gscartsw.EmperorZelos wrote:what is that?Taiyaki wrote:Thank you, that makes sense.
Would installing the LED on the nesrgb scart by Tim make it so the gscartsw would require additional power?
http://etim.net.au/cable-adapter/scart- ... -guide.htm
Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
delete
Last edited by mickcris on Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
It should be just fine.Taiyaki wrote:That's the Scart cable for the NES made by Tim, the same person who made the nesrgb. I was wondering whether it wouldn't be better not to install the LED in order to have it running without power on the gscartsw.EmperorZelos wrote:what is that?Taiyaki wrote:Thank you, that makes sense.
Would installing the LED on the nesrgb scart by Tim make it so the gscartsw would require additional power?
http://etim.net.au/cable-adapter/scart- ... -guide.htm
Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
Oh cool, this is moving along.superg wrote:For now it's only 10 switches.Taiyaki wrote:How many will be stocked? Should we start preordering?
I will add you to my queue if you want.
I am not ready to pay for big quantities, so most likely it'll go 10-20 every batch.
But further batches will go faster if I will not need any changes.
Is my name early enough in the queue for one of these next 10?
Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
You're almost in the top of list, absolutely you'll get one this batch.Forks wrote: Oh cool, this is moving along.
Is my name early enough in the queue for one of these next 10?
Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
Also, I think I will be able to implement JP21
Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
I do, drop me a PM and we'll work out the specifics.Not sure if BuckoA51 still wants one for review, but I'll order one either way.
OSSC Forums - http://www.videogameperfection.com/forums
Please check the Wiki before posting about Morph, OSSC, XRGB Mini or XRGB3 - http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/Main_Page
Please check the Wiki before posting about Morph, OSSC, XRGB Mini or XRGB3 - http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/Main_Page
Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
A little update.
Here's how new switch looks:
Just did some chaining:
My Sega Genesis connected through 4 switches sequentially, no visible degradation. 5ft Genesis SCART cable + 4 * 4ft switch-switch SCART cable, which is 21ft in total.
I was able to see some degradation starting from 5 switches in chain.
However there is no any reason for having more than 2 switches in daisy chain, it should grow in breath first order so you may clearly have 8 switches (64 input ports) connected to 9th root one.
I am still waiting for silicon pads and hopefully on this weekend I'll finish testing and check pricing.
FYI: here's main development thread:
http://www.assemblergames.com/forums/sh ... RT-project
A lot of information is scattered around, just skim through these topics, there are a lot of information on the switch.
Here's how new switch looks:
Just did some chaining:
My Sega Genesis connected through 4 switches sequentially, no visible degradation. 5ft Genesis SCART cable + 4 * 4ft switch-switch SCART cable, which is 21ft in total.
I was able to see some degradation starting from 5 switches in chain.
However there is no any reason for having more than 2 switches in daisy chain, it should grow in breath first order so you may clearly have 8 switches (64 input ports) connected to 9th root one.
I am still waiting for silicon pads and hopefully on this weekend I'll finish testing and check pricing.
FYI: here's main development thread:
http://www.assemblergames.com/forums/sh ... RT-project
A lot of information is scattered around, just skim through these topics, there are a lot of information on the switch.
Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
FYI: I've just updated topic with actual information and photos.