How well do PAL-NTSC signal converters work?...

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dave4shmups
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How well do PAL-NTSC signal converters work?...

Post by dave4shmups »

Since I'm not having any luck trying to find a multi-region/multi-system CRT TV, I have been thinking about getting a PAL-NTSC signal converter. On Amazon, at least, they don't get great reviews, but I'm assuming that how well any one converter works depends on how well it's made.
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Re: How well do PAL-NTSC signal converters work?...

Post by Fudoh »

Do you really need a framerate conversion ?

The cheap NTSC-PAL converters (other way around since I'm in Europe) that have been available since NES days only convert the color carrier, so you usually get a "PAL60" output. Using RGB instead usually solved the problem, since many older european TVs didn't have NTSC decoders on board, but were able to display in 60Hz nevertheless.

So, which display and what sources are you looking ?
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Re: How well do PAL-NTSC signal converters work?...

Post by ApolloBoy »

Fudoh wrote:Using RGB instead usually solved the problem, since many older european TVs didn't have NTSC decoders on board, but were able to display in 60Hz nevertheless.
Or you can also use a PVM, most of them support PAL (and even SECAM) just fine.
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Re: How well do PAL-NTSC signal converters work?...

Post by dave4shmups »

Which Sony PVMs will accept a PAL signal? Because I looked on Ebay, and they are plentiful. I would want a color one, of course, and it would need to have standard RCA/AV inputs.
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Re: How well do PAL-NTSC signal converters work?...

Post by ApolloBoy »

dave4shmups wrote:Which Sony PVMs will accept a PAL signal? Because I looked on Ebay, and they are plentiful. I would want a color one, of course, and it would need to have standard RCA/AV inputs.
Only the old ones lack PAL support, so most of the PVMs you'll find will have PAL support. They don't have RCA inputs for composite video (they use BNC connectors), but you can get BNC to RCA adapters for dirt cheap.
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Re: How well do PAL-NTSC signal converters work?...

Post by Xan »

If you don't need RGB you could also look for a FD Trinitron/WEGA model. Convergence of course isn't as good as on a PVM but they are still nice gaming TVs. Generally here in Europe TVs could do NTSC starting from the late 90s (at least)...
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Re: How well do PAL-NTSC signal converters work?...

Post by ApolloBoy »

Xan wrote:If you don't need RGB you could also look for a FD Trinitron/WEGA model. Convergence of course isn't as good as on a PVM but they are still nice gaming TVs. Generally here in Europe TVs could do NTSC starting from the late 90s (at least)...
I think Dave is in the US so that wouldn't apply; very few TVs here in the States support PAL.
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Re: How well do PAL-NTSC signal converters work?...

Post by Ed Oscuro »

In the US you can get by with a component (YPbPr) TV and possibly a transcoder. I haven't gotten my Kramer going stably yet - beware of the old goods.
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Re: How well do PAL-NTSC signal converters work?...

Post by dave4shmups »

Ed Oscuro wrote:In the US you can get by with a component (YPbPr) TV and possibly a transcoder. I haven't gotten my Kramer going stably yet - beware of the old goods.
What about a converter like this one? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... -_-Product
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Re: How well do PAL-NTSC signal converters work?...

Post by Ed Oscuro »

Well, I don't know. Are you okay with using composite? :lol:
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Re: How well do PAL-NTSC signal converters work?...

Post by dave4shmups »

Ed Oscuro wrote:Well, I don't know. Are you okay with using composite? :lol:
Absolutely; that and RF are all that my CRT has. Speaking of RF, let's say that I bought a PAL computer, for example, that only had RF out-would it work with that converter? Or would I need something else?
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Re: How well do PAL-NTSC signal converters work?...

Post by Fudoh »

No, you cannot convert RF with a composite converter. You would need a PAL tuner that accepts PAL RF and outputs composite PAL first (e.g. a PAL VHS recorder).
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Re: How well do PAL-NTSC signal converters work?...

Post by speedlolita »

As someone who lives in Europe, why on EARTH do you want support for PAL? :lol:
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Re: How well do PAL-NTSC signal converters work?...

Post by dave4shmups »

Fudoh wrote:No, you cannot convert RF with a composite converter. You would need a PAL tuner that accepts PAL RF and outputs composite PAL first (e.g. a PAL VHS recorder).
OK, thanks! The reason why I want support for PAL, is, first and foremost, because I want to get an Amiga CD32. Yeah, I know people talk down about that console, but I personally think that it looks awesome, AND the games are on CD-ROM, not older 3.5 floppy disks. The only Amiga game that I really love that didn't get a release on the CD32 is Test Drive II: The Duel. But that's fine, because the Genesis version is almost identical.

I'd also like to get an Amiga CDTV, because it just looks awesome, and because not all CDTV games work on the CD32; or so I've been told.

As far as PAL RF gaming goes, you all in the UK and Europe got some AWESOME 8-bit computers! Seriously, if I lived in a PAL country, other then the aforementioned Commodore consoles, I'd probably spend a lot of my time gaming on computers like the Dragon 32 and 64, the Oric Atmos, and the ZX Spectrum-and maybe some others, as well.

So those are the reasons why I want to be able to do PAL gaming where I live. It's easy to find HDTVs that support PAL here, but not as easy to find CRT TVs, even on Craigslist, that can.
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Re: How well do PAL-NTSC signal converters work?...

Post by ApolloBoy »

dave4shmups wrote: OK, thanks! The reason why I want support for PAL, is, first and foremost, because I want to get an Amiga CD32. Yeah, I know people talk down about that console, but I personally think that it looks awesome, AND the games are on CD-ROM, not older 3.5 floppy disks.
You're far better off getting an Amiga 1200 or 600, the CD32 is nowhere near as upgradeable as those models and expansions for the CD32 will probably cost you more than getting a 1200 plus a good RAM expansion. You don't have to be restricted to floppies either, nor with CDs if you use an HxC Floppy Emulator and/or WHDLoad (and why do I get the feeling you're going to ask questions about those instead of just Googling them, as is typical with you?).
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Re: How well do PAL-NTSC signal converters work?...

Post by neorichieb1971 »

Go easy on Dave. I think he would rather someone here he trusts to answer him directly rather than investing money into something that "site ABC" says. I was once in the position he is now in and I believe thats what forums are for.

If I you were you Dave I would explore the possibility of just buying an amiga monitor. Since the A1200/CD32 and other compatibles were dual 50/60hz the monitors would most likely support both.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Commodore-1084- ... 4ad5d74b28

Obviously the standard cables would work or be easily modified to support all those computers/consoles you want to explore.
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Re: How well do PAL-NTSC signal converters work?...

Post by dave4shmups »

neorichieb1971 wrote:Go easy on Dave. I think he would rather someone here he trusts to answer him directly rather than investing money into something that "site ABC" says. I was once in the position he is now in and I believe thats what forums are for.

If I you were you Dave I would explore the possibility of just buying an amiga monitor. Since the A1200/CD32 and other compatibles were dual 50/60hz the monitors would most likely support both.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Commodore-1084- ... 4ad5d74b28

Obviously the standard cables would work or be easily modified to support all those computers/consoles you want to explore.
I'll Google the stuff; I already got a little off-topic here to begin with. I forgot about the 1084, although I think there's a 1084S model.
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Re: How well do PAL-NTSC signal converters work?...

Post by dave4shmups »

dave4shmups wrote:
neorichieb1971 wrote:Go easy on Dave. I think he would rather someone here he trusts to answer him directly rather than investing money into something that "site ABC" says. I was once in the position he is now in and I believe thats what forums are for.

If I you were you Dave I would explore the possibility of just buying an amiga monitor. Since the A1200/CD32 and other compatibles were dual 50/60hz the monitors would most likely support both.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Commodore-1084- ... 4ad5d74b28

Obviously the standard cables would work or be easily modified to support all those computers/consoles you want to explore.
I'll Google the stuff; I already got a little off-topic here to begin with. I forgot about the 1084, although I think there's a 1084S model.
Thanks for that link! Does the 1084 support RF? I also didn't see, in the pictures in that auction, a PAL-NTSC switch; although it may just recognize the different signals automatically.

What about the Commodore 1702? People just rave about how great it is for retro gaming, but I don't know if it can support both PAL and NTSC.
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Re: How well do PAL-NTSC signal converters work?...

Post by Unseen »

dave4shmups wrote:Does the 1084 support RF?
No
I also didn't see, in the pictures in that auction, a PAL-NTSC switch; although it may just recognize the different signals automatically.
I never tried it, but people seem to claim that it's auto-detecting PAL vs. NTSC. This may or may not be true for every version of the monitor though.
What about the Commodore 1702? People just rave about how great it is for retro gaming, but I don't know if it can support both PAL and NTSC.
The 1702 is Composite/almost-but-not-quite-S-Video(*) only and does not have an RGB input, which in my opinion completely disqualifies it for retro gaming purposes.

(*) Standard S-video these days uses 0.7Vpp signal levels, the 1702 is designed for the C64 which outputs 1Vpp. Connecting standard S-Video to the 1702 with an adapter cable will probably result in a slightly less saturated picture.
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Re: How well do PAL-NTSC signal converters work?...

Post by Fudoh »

Thanks for that link! Does the 1084 support RF? I also didn't see, in the pictures in that auction, a PAL-NTSC switch; although it may just recognize the different signals automatically.
The 1084 isn't multi-standard, at least mine wasn't. NTSC was b/w only, except for RGB. And no RF support, but I think you should really skip that idea. If you run into a RF-only system, there's certainly an easy enough mod to add composite.
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Re: How well do PAL-NTSC signal converters work?...

Post by dave4shmups »

Crap. OK, well I guess that I should keep on looking for a PAL and NTSC compatible CRT. When I'm searching for one on Craigslist, for example, should I use the term "multi-system" or "multi-region"? Or, just "region-free"?

I don't have a problem with a display that's LCD, but it would need to be able to display in a 4:3 aspect ratio.
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Re: How well do PAL-NTSC signal converters work?...

Post by neorichieb1971 »

Why do you need RF when you have RGB?

All the commodore units support RGB and its an amiga monitor. The auction states its got an RGB cable already.

I would seriously not buy a PVM unless your buying from this forum. I bought 2 or 3 and all had issues. Your buying a 24 year old tube so good luck with that.

If you really want 100% compatibility just buy a 14" TV from this forum from the UK. It has RF, SCART RGB and some of them are NTSC (The Sony's are).

The shipping will be OK if you can wait 6 weeks. The offset from that is that you could possibly get one for free since they are thrown away left and right. Then you need a step up converter. Then your good to go. I bought a brand new Sony 14" (£35) about 2 months ago still in its box. I haven't turned it on yet though waiting to move into my new home.

Get something like this -

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sony-Trinitro ... 2ed30c87ae

There are probably enough UK people here that are local to one of the auctions for free pickup. you might even be lucky and find someone who will depart with a good 14 CRT.
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Re: How well do PAL-NTSC signal converters work?...

Post by dave4shmups »

neorichieb1971 wrote:Why do you need RF when you have RGB?

All the commodore units support RGB and its an amiga monitor. The auction states its got an RGB cable already.

I would seriously not buy a PVM unless your buying from this forum. I bought 2 or 3 and all had issues. Your buying a 24 year old tube so good luck with that.

If you really want 100% compatibility just buy a 14" TV from this forum from the UK. It has RF, SCART RGB and some of them are NTSC (The Sony's are).

The shipping will be OK if you can wait 6 weeks. The offset from that is that you could possibly get one for free since they are thrown away left and right. Then you need a step up converter. Then your good to go. I bought a brand new Sony 14" (£35) about 2 months ago still in its box. I haven't turned it on yet though waiting to move into my new home.

Get something like this -

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sony-Trinitro ... 2ed30c87ae

There are probably enough UK people here that are local to one of the auctions for free pickup. you might even be lucky and find someone who will depart with a good 14 CRT.
Why does having RGB cancel out the need for RF? Anyway, GREAT idea about getting a UK TV! I never thought of that! Do you think that anyone on Ebay UK would be willing to ship a 14'' TV here to the U.S.? I didn't see that option in the Ebay link that you provided. Shipping costs do worry me; even a 14'' would be heavy.
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Re: How well do PAL-NTSC signal converters work?...

Post by neorichieb1971 »

I was proposing that you get a UK person to buy from ebay and use that UK resident to purchase it on your behalf. Lets say the TV was in Cornwall (as the link suggests), find someone on here that lives near there to test, pick it up for you and box it up for shipping.

If you use airmail it will be expensive, but if you use sea shipping it will be cheap. It will take 6+ weeks for it to arrive though. When I moved to the USA I sent all my games (100's of them) from the UK and that didn't cost that much. A TV would cost less than £50 I would think.

Nobody in the UK uses RF for videogames. All the Commodore computers and consoles support RGB. The only console i know that doesn't support RGB is the NES from the UK.

I would buy a 14" on your behalf but the problem is when I looked on ebay the nearest one was 45 miles away.

This one is quite near at 20 miles..

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/14-Sony-Trini ... 20e7595a35

I'll keep an eye on it. If I buy it and shipping is too much i'll keep it.
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Re: How well do PAL-NTSC signal converters work?...

Post by dave4shmups »

neorichieb1971 wrote:I was proposing that you get a UK person to buy from ebay and use that UK resident to purchase it on your behalf. Lets say the TV was in Cornwall (as the link suggests), find someone on here that lives near there to test, pick it up for you and box it up for shipping.

If you use airmail it will be expensive, but if you use sea shipping it will be cheap. It will take 6+ weeks for it to arrive though. When I moved to the USA I sent all my games (100's of them) from the UK and that didn't cost that much. A TV would cost less than £50 I would think.

Nobody in the UK uses RF for videogames. All the Commodore computers and consoles support RGB. The only console i know that doesn't support RGB is the NES from the UK.

I would buy a 14" on your behalf but the problem is when I looked on ebay the nearest one was 45 miles away.

This one is quite near at 20 miles..

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/14-Sony-Trini ... 20e7595a35

I'll keep an eye on it. If I buy it and shipping is too much i'll keep it.
OK, thanks! :D Please keep me posted! If it doesn't work out, then no worries. There are plenty of NTSC consoles and games that I can purchase and enjoy over here.
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