What to learn after deathsmiles

[tzakiel]

I am a shmup newbie, just now getting into them at 30+ years old. I've collected a great list of games and focused on deathsmiles for now... I think I am ready to take on another game or two. What are some more good shmups to "warm up" to the genre? I like a mix of interesting scoring and somewhat forgiving gameplay until I get better. I tried mushihimesama and, damn, maybe it's MAME (even with blitter on) but I can't play it for shit, can't even make the top scores. Looks like a great game though.

here are some i am interested in, maybe someone can give me some pespective on which are going to be do-able for a low skill person such as myself.

Mushimesama
MH futari / BL
Ketsui
Battle garegga
Armed police batrider
Terra diver
ESP ra de
ESPgaluda

[broken harbour]

EDIT - My suggestion was dumb because I skimmed the original post.

[CStarFlare]

Espgaula is very much one of "THE" beginner shmups. Futari Black Label is good too, but I don't know if MAME handles it very well.

Garegga and Batrider are not, but they're worth giving a shot anyway. If you fall in love with them, they'll force you to develop your skills to a whole other level than Deathsmiles and Espgaulda require for casual play.

[chempop]

For mame a lot of the older cave titles play better iirc: ESPrade, Guwange, Donpachi, Dodonapchi, Progear, Dangun Feveron. Definitely worth looking into other developers, besides Cave and Raizing (Psikyo, Takumi, Capcom, Konami, Seibu, Toaplan, etc)

Do you have access to any consoles?

[tzakiel]

For mame a lot of the older cave titles play better iirc: ESPrade, Guwange, Donpachi, Dodonapchi, Progear, Dangun Feveron. Definitely worth looking into other developers, besides Cave and Raizing (Psikyo, Takumi, Capcom, Konami, Seibu, Toaplan, etc)

Do you have access to any consoles?

Tried dodonpachi and although I know I will like it, it just kicked my ass. I have better like with dai fukkatsu but only marginally. Both kick my ass, and not sure I understand the scoring. Might just need more practice.

I really like espgaluda and espgaluda ii scoring wise but they are both trashing me.

I have access to pretty much every shmup worth a damn for any console or arcade (except x360, I don't have), so it's not an issue. I also have a copy of ikaruga for DC which I was planning to give a shot as well.

[Patashu]

Grab shmupmame http://shmupmame.wordpress.com/download/ (compared to mame, it has lower input latency and lower visual latency on all shmups you're going to think of playing, which means better performance all around), grab Dodonpachi, grab A-Laser ship, learn that the hitbox is here and use savestates to make the game as fine-grained as possible/practice individual segments of it. You'll improve a lot faster than just doing full game runs/until you game over/whatever because you'll be able to devote your attention to just a single kind of challenge at a time, and move on when you feel like practicing one specific other thing.

Reason why Dodonpachi is, it's hard, but it's a very 'classical' kind of hard (there aren't many 'gimmicky' types of threats, just basic bullet patterns pushed to be just dense enough that you have to improve your skill or determine a good route to comfortably tackle them. Of course, you can savestate practice with any other cave shmup and you'll come out learning basically the same skills, so don't think that this is the only way you can start out. Yes, Dodonpachi will kick your ass. That's GOOD. If you're not dying then you're not learning. Dodonpachi is very well tuned so that you have to get a good route, good skill or die trying, as are most Cave games. You could play easier stuff, but you won't learn as fast as a consequence - not worth it IMO.

Also while practicing refer to the PROMETHEUS guide for practicing. It is amazing and you will agree: http://goo.gl/Fi2zE
By the way, I and a couple of friends are currently learning/practicing to clear Dodonpachi 1-ALL. So if you want to share advice, video snippets, routes, tactics, cheer one another on, etc, then feel free to add me on skype (patashu0) or AIM (patashu0 as well) or MSN (Patashu@hotmail.com). I'm also willing to try any shmup emulatable in MAME you are too alongside you.

(BTW, Mushihimesama and anything more recent made by Cave will emulate poorly in MAME - savestates won't work properly, slowdown won't work properly and I think they run at a different speed to PCB too. For the 1st reason mainly but also 2 and 3 I would avoid playing these in MAME except out of personal curiosity for now. Hopefully a developer will rise to the challenge of fixing this emulation in the future.)

[KAI]

What about playing a Milestone game?

[ACSeraph]

Darius Gaiden - ABDGLQV - auto-on

[tzakiel]

Grab shmupmame http://shmupmame.wordpress.com/download/ (compared to mame, it has lower input latency and lower visual latency on all shmups you're going to think of playing, which means better performance all around), grab Dodonpachi, grab A-Laser ship, learn that the hitbox is here and use savestates to make the game as fine-grained as possible/practice individual segments of it. You'll improve a lot faster than just doing full game runs/until you game over/whatever because you'll be able to devote your attention to just a single kind of challenge at a time, and move on when you feel like practicing one specific other thing.

Thanks for the advice. I actually use groovymame on a crt screen in a cab. Input/display lag isn't a problem! I'll give dodonpachi an honest shot.

[Chacranajxy]

Well, sticking to Cave shooters... Mushihime (the original) isn't too terribly difficult. It's challenging, but one of the more manageable titles for people just getting into Cave shooters. It's also one of their best games.

The easiest vertical shooter Cave's made is probably Dodonpachi Daifukkatsu, if you're just playing for survival. That was the first Cave 1CC I got, and it only took about a day of playing. I actually found it considerably easier than even Espgaluda, which a lot of people point to as being Cave's easiest shooter.

[Aleksei]

Metal Black.

[ACSeraph]

Metal Black.

[Patashu]

Well, sticking to Cave shooters... Mushihime (the original) isn't too terribly difficult. It's challenging, but one of the more manageable titles for people just getting into Cave shooters. It's also one of their best games.

The easiest vertical shooter Cave's made is probably Dodonpachi Daifukkatsu, if you're just playing for survival. That was the first Cave 1CC I got, and it only took about a day of playing. I actually found it considerably easier than even Espgaluda, which a lot of people point to as being Cave's easiest shooter.

The thing about things like 'DFK is the easiest 1CC for survival' is that it's a sleight of hand act:
-You're playing a ship with uses-one-bomb autobombs and a mechanic that basically makes you invincible, so what constitutes a 1-ALL in DFK is actually comparatively sloppy play compared to in other games (higher mistake count is permitted etc).
-It doesn't end after the first loop - it's not a 1CC, it's just the first part of the game. It sounds like pedantry, but it means you haven't beaten the game, just passed the first milestone.
I don't mean to say 'don't play DFK', of course. It's actually pretty fun, I like a lot of the patterns in it, though the loop 2 gets really ridiculous and it's pretty clear you're intended to be hypering/otherwise cheesing a lot of boss and miniboss patterns now. Maybe play it with Power instead of Bomb or Strong so you don't have a ridiculous amount of auto-bombs.

[ACSeraph]

-It doesn't end after the first loop - it's not a 1CC, it's just the first part of the game. It sounds like pedantry, but it means you haven't beaten the game, just passed the first milestone.

A 1-ALL is still a type of 1cc, and the initial goal for most survival players.

Agreed that DFK encourages sloppy play to some degree, when played for pure survival. I'm wary to recommend it to beginners if only because it might teach bad habits.

[trap15]

Gemini Wing

[Plasmo]

Try out Espgaluda or Mushi Futari BL Original. Both are very newcomer friendly.

I you feel warmed up enough, fire up Garegga and enjoy your life.

[Jonst]

Akai katana is quite forgiving and allows a fair bit of room for mistakes.Also has a great scoring system...I'd go with climax/zetsu and slash mode over arcade though,once you get used to the mechanics,it's quite beginner friendly imo.

[dannnnn]

Don't worry about which games give you trouble, just find one that you really enjoy and stick with it. Familiarity is the key and you'll only get that through consistent practice. Most importantly, pay attention while you're playing. I know this sounds obvious but you'd be surprised how easy it can be to drift into autopilot. Get into the habit of memorising enemy placement so that you can anticipate what's coming next and position yourself accordingly. Also, don't get demoralised if you're not coming close to a 1CC or whatever your goals may be, just focus on setting a new personal best and making gradual progress. Since you asked for suggestions, maybe try Battle Bakraid normal course or Batsugun Special Version, both are decent choices for a beginner IMO.

Lastly, in your profile it shows which forum you're most active in, do your best to make it this one

[n0rtygames]

Why not continue to play Deathsmiles for a serious score?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Q-RtxN7pz0

[Eaglet]

Try out Espgaluda or Mushi Futari BL Original. Both are very newcomer friendly.

I you feel warmed up enough, fire up Garegga and enjoy your life.

^This.

Check out Ketsui as well. Somewhat hard for survival (especially in the beginning) but it has lots of fun and weird patterns and will teach you to play aggressively.

[50Hz]

imo as a fellow scrub, I found Mushi original much easier than Espgaluda (which I'm still having difficulty clearing thanks to my inconsistency with Seseri and 5-2 + Jakou)
Yes Mushi has faster bullets and less cancels but the patterns are friendlier and the final boss goes down without too much trouble and can be bomb spammed if need be.

[Acid King]

I'd second dannnnn's suggestion to just stick with whatever you like best, but if you're really gettig frustrated then something like Futari's Novice, or Batrider and Bakraid's Normal courses are good picks. In terms of difficulty, Novice mode in Futari is the easiest, followed by Batrider's Normal course. Both are pretty good for beginners and are probably your best bet if you're having a tough time in Galuda. Futari gives you autobombs so you can focus on dodging. Batrider and Bakraid encourage bombing offensively and most bosses go down pretty quick with bombs.

[Blinge]

it just kicked my ass.

Get used to this, and keep playing. that's the first step. =]

[Patashu]

it just kicked my ass.

Get used to this, and keep playing. that's the first step. =]

Amen!!

[chempop]

-It doesn't end after the first loop - it's not a 1CC, it's just the first part of the game. It sounds like pedantry, but it means you haven't beaten the game, just passed the first milestone.

A 1-ALL is still a type of 1cc, and the initial goal for most survival players.

Agreed that DFK encourages sloppy play to some degree, when played for pure survival. I'm wary to recommend it to beginners if only because it might teach bad habits.

You haven't beaten a game unless you get the world record, so why bother trying, right?

I sorta agree that DFK might be too lenient with the bullet canceling and autobombs.
Actually, Mushi1, Galuda, and Dodonapchi are all good starter cave games... but you'll get a lot out of trying a variety of (non-cave) games while you are starting off.

[LordHypnos]

I don't really have a lot of experience or anything to make suggestions, but I gotta agree with some others that there are games worth playing that aren't CAVE or Raizing. Definately at least give them a fair shot.

[Eaglet]

that aren't CAVE

Agree with this.

or Raizing

But not this.
There are only some ten'ish people playing Raizing seriously in the west.
We need new blood.

[mastermx]

It's been said before, but it bears repeating. Play blue wish resurrection. It's free, very beginner friendly, and will teach the basics. It also has a very customizable difficulty.

[endoKarb]

There are only some ten'ish people playing Raizing seriously in the west.
We need new blood.

Isn't that ~80% of the active player base already?

[Plasmo]

Good point!