soukyugurentai emulation

[Jeneki]

I would love an M2 style widget for monitoring rank in this game. I avoid the powerups as that's a known contributor, but sometimes the stage 3 boss is just way angrier than usual and I have no idea why.

[DMC]

Yeah, such gadget would be neat.
Getting 100% hit rate on stages increases rank a bit too, but not excessively.
It could also be that you destroy the centre part, which activates the "chaotic bullets attack" iirc, which he typically uses closer to the end of the battle.
Or that you do not destroy the two small turrets on the shoulders at the back, because their attack will be mixed with the other attacks after a while.
Or you mean the homing rockets are more aggressive? I only notice that if I've powered up the shot one level (hence, I do not power up at all).

[Sengoku Strider]

I would love an M2 style widget for monitoring rank in this game. I avoid the powerups as that's a known contributor, but sometimes the stage 3 boss is just way angrier than usual and I have no idea why.

That boss can be brutal, too, because it gives you such little area to operate in.

[Bassa-Bassa]

I just realized the OP went MIA. He asked a question and checked out.

You don't mean in the slightest that he may be this guy's new account, do you?

Why are people using MAME to emulate the Saturn instead of Mednafen?

Because [Groovy]Mame's the only one that guarantees emulation with no additional lag and there exists an arcade equivalent in this case?

Last I checked, even the lockon's wireframe didn't render properly.

The Saturn is one of those must-own consoles, really. At least until the Mister core shows a better face.

Look, you're not wrong about the benefits of owning the real thing, but how long has it been since you fired it up in MAME?

A bit too long, I admit. Glad it got fixed recently, but seems STV is still far from getting close to completion (and less demanding to reasonably use frame delay with it).

[Rastan78]

I would love an M2 style widget for monitoring rank in this game. I avoid the powerups as that's a known contributor, but sometimes the stage 3 boss is just way angrier than usual and I have no idea why.

There's an ST in the strategy forum that goes over the rank system pretty well. I only ever owned and played the Saturn version. I'm kinda curious if there were other changes and bugfixes besides the bomb scoring glitch and what aesthetic differences there are to the ST-V version.

[Gamer707b]

I would love an M2 style widget for monitoring rank in this game. I avoid the powerups as that's a known contributor, but sometimes the stage 3 boss is just way angrier than usual and I have no idea why.

There's an ST in the strategy forum that goes over the rank system pretty well. I only ever owned and played the Saturn version. I'm kinda curious if there were other changes and bugfixes besides the bomb scoring glitch and what aesthetic differences there are to the ST-V version.

I have experienced that on stage 3 boss too. Sometimes he is PISSED and throws everything but the kitchen sink. I'm gonna have to check out that strategy you mention.

[Steven]

I have not played the game in a while, but I have a vague memory of bombing the stage 3 boss the moment he appears to destroy his flamethrowers immediately, unless I'm thinking of another boss instead. Yeah, those probably give points and the game greatly reduces point values for things that you kill with bombs, but I'm not playing for score; I can't even clear the game yet, on either Saturn normal difficulty or ST-V normal difficulty, so for now just surviving is good, I think.

[Prickly Angler]

Stumbled across this thread some time ago (blame me for only following hi-score and strategy sections )

As it is now, the main shot is quite useless for scoring, because there is no multiplier connected to it. Only the secondary weapon, the lock-on, is connected to the multipler system (for example, if you lock on to 6 enemies you get a x4 multiplier applied to each of them). So an arrange mode could try to integrate the main shot somehow. A straightforward way would be to add a timer for each multiplier so that once you used the lock on shot to trigger a multipler, you have a few seconds where you can use the main shot to exploit it.

My guess is that Raizing thought of doing something like that because

a) they did it in Dimahoo (you first use the charge weapon to trigger items, then you can use the main shot to obtain further items as long as the timer bar is active)
b) there is a visual error in Soukyugurentai that hints of something like the above. For example, if you use the lock-on to trigger a x4 multiplier you will see the flashing x4 for a while (as if there were a timer) before it disappears. If you shortly thereafter use your main shot to destroy an enemy, the flashing x4 will pop up again (as if the multiplier was reactivited by the main shot), but there is no multiplier applied to your score. For a long time I took for granted that I could get a multiplier with the main shot this way so I tried to kill enemies with the main shot quickly after the lock-on, but then I counted the points and it was clear there is never a multiplier connected to the main shot.

This is really interesting, I had absolutely no idea ! Imo it would have been pretty bad not to have put it in Great Mahou Daisakusen, but in Soukygurentai it's not that bad since in most sections you don't really have time to shoot and are encouraged to just use locks. An arrange that uses the shot or that punishes less for power-uping would be great to see though.

The NALS weapon (especially Pinpoint) is so satisfying to use, so I don't mind too much. Pinpont is probably my favorite weapon in any shmup all things considered: great visuals and sound effects, great build-up-and-release dynamic, great balance between being powerful but not overpowered, addictive multipliers with immediate reward, it encourages you to move and proactively kill enemies rather than passively stay at the bottom, it offers great flexibility by letting you switch between two NALS weapon to utilize both their strengths. I don't know, i generally like lock-on weapons like the "Free range" in TFV and the Rayforce and Crimzon Clover ones, but Souky has the best lock-on I've seen (what are the other candidates?).

Big kuddos to that, I really agree that Pinpoint feels so great to use. It really is overpowered compared to all other N.A.L.S, which are more difficult to use and really feel underpowered in comparison.

There is some additional slowdown, but it's almost entirely during big scene transitions where there's not much action, and the additional bonus ship is exclusive and a lot of fun.

 

From what I recall from mutmut02’s streams it’s not only during that scene, it’s just that it’s in that scene that it’s the most apparent.

Considering Duckstation is a highly responsive emulator, I bet you could find ways to mitigate the extra slowdown of the ps1 port and have a very nearly comparative Soukyugurentai experience.

There’s still differences with the Saturn port aside from slowdown and PSX special mode. From what I’ve seen on streams PSX AC mode on level 5 is substantially harder than AC/Saturn LVL 5.

There were no glitches or fixes from STV to Saturn, it is as straight a conversion as you can expect. If anything it seemed to have added a few slight bugs here and there, mainly with graphics/sprites.

Can you think of any bugs/glitches that are on Saturn but not on ST-V ? I’ve seen many on the Saturn and assumed them to be also there on ST-V but I’ve never been able to confirm this.

Again, this was "fixed" but this does change the big score dynamic from never bombing, which can add a neat layer of strategy to the game as you can control the bomb spawns somewhat.

As I explained in the recent STG Weekly episode (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fh6ExmxqLi4) not having that bug could also add a neat layer of strategy that is unexploited for the moment : using bombs to get 0% ennemy remaining in stages, suiciding to get more bombs, increasing rank to insane limits and no-missing to keep the power-up chain going. With the bug most boss fights involve camping by finding the easiest pattern to farm bombs and staying there, and by unoptimizing certain sections/ boss destruction because you cannot risk to not pray for rng bomb drops, which is pretty bad and not very Raizing imo.

I'm not sure what the differences between the ST-V and Saturn versions of Soukyuugurentai are, but I think there is some sort of score glitch or something like that in the ST-V version that was fixed on Saturn.

I’ve never been able to figure out what Toyama was referring to there. For a while I thought the bomb bug was corrected on Saturn port until I accidently triggered it. Maybe he was thinking of the input lag (which is sorta bad on ST-V).

So yeah, who knows. If I run into him again, I'll be sure to ask him

On what circumstances have you guys met ? It’s nice that you were able to talk about Soukyugurentai with him

I'm kinda curious if there were other changes and bugfixes besides the bomb scoring glitch and what aesthetic differences there are to the ST-V version.

Judged on those are the differences between the ST-V and the Saturn version :

Aesthetics :

- Bullet sprites are a bit different, the bullets look more circular on ST-V. With time I found out that this is something that happens in many shmup ports
- The title screen has a different palette colour (aside from the other differences
- There’s much more explosion sound effects on some ennemies and bosses, this is particularly noticeable on Shinsen and stage 6’s turret wall

Gameplay :

- ST-V has more imput lag. Can’t exactly pinpoint how much but the game definetely felt laggier to me when I got to play it on a cab.
- ST-V has less slowdown. On Saturn it’s much easier to make the game slowdown by shooting intentionally
- Game options are very different in both games. Saturn has a pretty insane amount of exclusive options but some options are exclusive to ST-V as well (more on that later)

I'm going to copy/paste this into the strategy page as well

[shirorm]

Hello
Just an information: how do you connect your saturn to a modern Tv?
Thanks in advance

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Hello
Just an information: how do you connect your saturn to a modern Tv?
Thanks in advance

Just use a "Levelhike HD Cable for Saturn" to use it on a modern day HD TV setup with HDMI as the main input. You'll need a micro usb cord with an AC adapter to supply the necessary 5v at 1amp to power up the Levelhike device though.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~