Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
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kitten
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by kitten »

Sengoku Strider wrote:I find it kind of dreary to be honest, which is why I'm not involved in it
it is really particularly exhausting discourse and i don't blame you. i think it's wise to choose happiness

anyway - a lot of preservation work, published books, donations, and sway become the foundation for a lot of significant, if sometimes abstracted influence. the oakland scene has a lot of twisting paths of nepotism and trust fund kids and privilege, it's no coincidence that's where cifaldi's "video game history foundation" is established (which gets donations from a lot of these youtuber people you mentioned, whose materials are likely cited in papers or will be, whose institution is "friends" with a lot of people in these places). some of my friends and acquaintances were future teachers, people writing extensive papers, those down in the dirt in zines, and many of the *actually* disadvantaged people having sex with them and trying to make something out of themselves by climbing the ladder. they all knew and had opinions about your parishes, sheffields, and cifaldis and several had direct interactions with them at conferences (a few got boosted by them).

i use words referring to structure i don't like too liberally and interchangeably because of how much affluence and privilege bind them together, and maybe gesturing vaguely to academia, intellectuals, etc., has obfuscated the breadth of what i'm beckoning at. i worry if i keep trying to clarify this one, we're going to talk past each other and get into political theory - but what i'm saying is that parish does have money, authority, and connections and does use them. and that he isn't there off just his labor, but because he occupies a position in a vacuum that many would be eager to have.

i hear about him absolutely all of the time anywhere i talk about video games, whether it's with obscure queer twine auteurs (who absolutely don't talk about any of those youtubers) or on here or when i'm abstractly reminded of him as i buy a game on limited run games and they ask me to throw a dollar into the "video game history foundation." i know way too much about this guy (despite never listening to retronauts, maybe only directly reading one or two of articles despite all the constant regurgitating of his opinions i've seen) and i think he knows way too little about how to properly play a video game for someone who puts "media curator" as the first thing in his twitter bio (forgetting everything else!). fucking more than 15 fucking years i've been hearing about this "toasty frog" mother fucker every week or two i've spent talking about games online.

one of my favorite things in the world is to drop into one of my favorite mom & pop shops and start chatting up the owner or talking too loudly with my partner - and getting one or two people surrounding me like i'm some sort of traveling folk storyteller with mysterious wisdom. i know that's vain as hell, but i always tirelessly try to recommend things to the people i talk to and they seem to really love it. i get appreciated and thanked repeatedly and with absurd consistency and it warms my heart. i live in the south and even the nerds are congenial. but even then, i still hear jeremy's name drop. "you heard of retronauts?" i kindly try to change the subject off of that very quickly and get back to hearing about their personal experiences and opinions, because that pitfall of talking about personalities and "influencers" begins dominating conversation if you don't hard cut it off - people will start just repeating opinions they've heard and get far away from what is cool about themselves or what they want to do.

again, i am less mad at him, i agree he is "a guy," and more mad at the conditions that create these vacuums. i think, really, i'd like to not think of him at all, but it's nearly impossible to participate in games discussion anywhere outside of hermetically sealed bubble and not start griping about the pernicious nature of "influencers" and for someone to disagree and say they're not so bad (or vice versa), etc., etc. it's maddening ;A; i mean, we're doing it right now :[ it's less a profession and more like a throne or something.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Air Master Burst »

Who really cares if some tourists who would never play it seriously anyway think an old arcade game is unfair and bad? There are TONS of youtube videos of competent play out there too, and it's not like they're any harder to find than any of these people.

If some rando in the game shop parrots these opinions about games they haven't played in casual conversation, they aren't likely the type to have ever played those games seriously anyway, because they watch that stuff instead of actual gameplay videos. These usually weren't even mass appeal games when they were new releases!

They know their audience, and it's not us. Their bias being harmful to preservation efforts would feel more compelling of an issue if I didn't have the vast majority of the video games made before 2006 sitting on a server and a couple hard drives in my desk. Those games are being preserved just fine!

What actual harm are they causing besides making it more annoying to talk about hardcore games with casuals who would never give them a proper shot anyway?
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Air Master Burst wrote:They know their audience, and it's not us. Their bias being harmful to preservation efforts
Honestly, I'm not even sure how harmful they are, given as you say, the ones who care about the games already know and love them enough to preserve interest in various forms if you take the time to look. They're appealing to the mass market by churning out vapid content farm type stuff so as to get ad revenue, which incentivizes "creators" producing a constant slew of videos regardless of how useful or insightful they are. Some of the best gaming content tends to be smaller, dedicated channels that value quality over quantity, but that hardly brings in the money, which makes it harder to find.

But Youtube is a platform that values clickbait that literally encourages people to try things that could harm or kill them, while their algorithms sometimes ban actually good creators who call out such videos. So I don't hold high hopes for Youtube as a dedicated platform for shmup/arcade info. The best repositories for discussion and information are always going to be fan-run platforms such as these.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

kitten wrote:i think, really, i'd like to not think of him at all, but it's nearly impossible to participate in games discussion anywhere outside of hermetically sealed bubble and not start griping about the pernicious nature of "influencers" and for someone to disagree and say they're not so bad (or vice versa), etc., etc. it's maddening ;A; i mean, we're doing it right now :[ it's less a profession and more like a throne or something.
Well, after two pages and at the start of a third, the conversation could use a recap, particularly as I have a solution!

~A Long Time Ago~

Bryan: Jerry dissed AC Rygar.
Me: Who? Sounds like a filthy casual.
Bryan: Pretty much!

After painstaking research, the video essay in question was confirmed shite. There has been much equivocation since, but flat zero by way rebuke. This is understandable, as the essay is indefensibly shoddy in its critiques, and even in its handling of historical record.

Where to go from here, if anywhere? I suggest putting a few credits on Rygar, or another quality Hard Scrolling Action game, like Daimakaimura or Saigo no Nindou. For those whose lust for Internet Dance Battle persists, I strongly suggest a disciplined taking up of Jerry's mantle - that is, his video essay and the arguments therein. Not the author himself, whatever you think of him - that is entirely irrelevant.

Prerequisites are a working familiarity with 1) the video essay, 2) the arcade version of Rygar, and 3) its Famicom sibling "Hachamecha Daishingeki." Do not bother responding if you lack any of these - you are flatly unqualified to an opinion here, and will suffer an Over Power Bumming not unlike Petey Ciabetta's on Oz.

For those qualified, and determined to sally forth, here is a helpful triage schedule! Image

1) "mindless." This is not a word you will find defensible in this game's case. Consider a modification to "mindless rote;" this too is hopeless, but you may convince casual onlookers who prefer to buff up their avatar, not their skillset, and balk at the slightest hint of pattern observation. Not that there is anything wrong with that! Remember who you are advocating for.

2) "full of cheap hits" and "made to gobble quarters." Again, the author has done you no favours. Prepare a concession along the lines of unreasonableness, rather than outright unfairness, and expect those FC clips of Jerry eating more blasts to the face than Jenna Jameson to haunt you. You will ultimately need to attack the man rather than the ball here - poor form, but then this is a poor case, and again, the casuals will approve.

3) "out of ideas after three stages." A literal reading of this claim is unsalvageable, but frankly also rather spergy. Convert to a more general statement, on the narrow focus of the game to its most central run/jump/kill mechanics. The riposte here is obvious - legions of beloved games hew as closely if not closer to their spartan workings - but you may as well embrace the heel act.

X) The End. Jerry's poor argumentation, bouts of sneering dishonesty, and lack of lateral thought have left a whopping cache of rhetorical ammunition lying about, which any canny orator will most assuredly have appropriated, and now relish the prospect of bringing down upon your head to an extent unseen in the relatively mild original rebuke. When this happens, consider turning coat; you are not being paid enough - in fact, anything at all - for this shit! :shock:

Best of luck! Your friend and compartriot in Hard Scrolling Action, Dr. Richard "Dick" "Penis" Biruford. Image
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Air Master Burst »

BareKnuckleRoo wrote:So I don't hold high hopes for Youtube as a dedicated platform for shmup/arcade info. The best repositories for discussion and information are always going to be fan-run platforms such as these.
It's less about dedicated platforms and more about ease of access. I just looked up "rygar arcade" on youtube and the top result is a video of some very competent play. If this is the first thing someone actually curious about the game finds on something as huge as youtube, I don't think we have to worry too much about some other random youtubers somehow writing authoritative historical notions about it.

ETA: That said, I totally agree that places like this are the best for real info. This thread is the whole reason I finally made an account here; I can't find anywhere else with this level of discussion about my beloved belt-scrollers!
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Udderdude »

Rygar's a pretty cool game eh, pisses off scrubs and doesn't afraid of anything.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

It's only fitting that as we begin the approach to this thread's tenth anniversary, we'd see a multi-page bunfight much like the one that began it all over Ninja Gaiden, this time concerning its predecessor in Tecmo-penned, Konami-copying excellence. :lol: :cool:

(well, not that Rygar is nearly the Unofficial Green Beret ROMhack that Ninja Gaiden is to Castlevania... but the analogy works too goddamn well to pass up ;3 actually, that's a good subject for a video essay!)
Air Master Burst wrote:ETA: That said, I totally agree that places like this are the best for real info. This thread is the whole reason I finally made an account here; I can't find anywhere else with this level of discussion about my beloved belt-scrollers!
This is pretty much how I view the state of the internet. Places like this are out there, for those of us who want them. Meanwhile, I'm sure a relatively casual audience really do get some enjoyment out of Jerry's console musings on the threads from FC Rygar to Faxandu to Dark Souls. Moreover, they likely wouldn't have the inclination to grapple with even the most finely-tuned arcade thoroughbred.

I've always believed passion is more or less innate, and that while it can most definitely be sparked out of a latent state, it's not something you can really impart, nor take away. I'm sure a lot of the stuff that's passe by this place's standards - your basic one-coin survival clears and so on - looks almost grotesquely alien to John Q Retro who just wants to goof around with his Mega Man carts.

Doesn't mean if someone makes a paper airplane out of that Giga Wing review and sends it sailing into this thread that I won't put my shoe up it, but it's a strictly one-way process. :lol:
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by kitten »

i went to go and check if i actually own any copy of rygar, and after a bewildering haze, arrived having searched "argus" on a list of games i own.

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but how did i get here? i asked myself. after some soul-searching and re-reading the post on this page and then flipping through tabs, i came across this -

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ah. yes. "argos." carefully, i began reverse-engineering the path my mind took on total autopilot. i highlighted "Hachamecha Daishingeki.", right clicked and selected "search google for," and then came to that video. after arriving there, i remembered i couldn't remember if i owned the game, and went to search. "what game? what was it called? ar...gus?"

feel like i just watched memento ;___; i have been awake too long
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Yeah, I prefer Argus no Senshi myself. It's much more aesthetically germane... your character is simply a (or perhaps the) soldier of Argus. That's all you need to know. Get on the road and save the day, nameless and impossibly buff hero of legend! Has a nicely mysterious, lost-to-the-mist-of-time haze to it, contrasting the universally hard-edged "warrior/soldier." A tale of heroic legend via ultra-finessed Hard Scrolling Action.

"Men and women and children, they all live under the dark death-shadow. He is so strong, so huge, so loathsome, that no one is able to do anything about it."

"I will then!" Beowulf leaped up in front of the Geats and heard himself shouting. "I will then!"


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<333 Charles Keeping's Beowulf. Gave me nightmares as a kid! Chills as a man! (■`w´■)

Pretty sure "Rygar" is the last boss in both games, though I could be wrong there. I like to think the FC sequel is simply a bit further down the timeline, the nameless warrior and the lion-headed fucker getting it on in an endless Rondo of Blood not unlike Ninja Gaiden's BFF Castlevania's :3

Another member of the Argus & Argus owner's club checking in. :cool: Not a bad little cart, the STG. The AC game was actually by NMK, and like much of their stuff gets pretty frisky fast. Insane bullet wobble (=objects moving along with your ship) instantly disqualifies it for many, but I find it worth having about via ACA.

Most memorable feature is, of course, the landing setpiece. Which I have just the solution for! Image
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by kitten »

i'm shocked that i don't own a copy, it feels like someone would have just... given it to me at some point, or i'd have picked it up in a used game shop, or something. i'm not sure i've ever even played it. distant memory of watching you bop on some guy's heads in a gif and going "i should get this."
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BrianC »

I found a random twitter post that compared Rygar to Bad Dudes.

I don't have Argus (either AC or FC), but I do have the NES Rygar on cart, the Lynx Rygar, and the Arcade Archives Rygar on Switch and PS4 (technically triple dipped on that one since the US PSN version is behind on updates).
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

kitten wrote:i'm shocked that i don't own a copy, it feels like someone would have just... given it to me at some point, or i'd have picked it up in a used game shop, or something. i'm not sure i've ever even played it. distant memory of watching you bop on some guy's heads in a gif and going "i should get this."
Haha, definitely the AC version with the bop GIFs. :mrgreen:

It went from a "hmm, that's kinda neat" detail on FC, to a "hoooly fuck this bop was made for me (;`w´;)" on AC. The really important thing is the i-frames on the somersault, invaluable! I can't recall if they're in the FC version, but tbh, it wouldn't really matter as much with the drastically clearer airspace. The FC hordes can actually get pretty thick, but never to the point you can't afford a quick jumpshot.
BrianC wrote:I found a random twitter post that compared Rygar to Bad Dudes.
*splutter*
*fume*
TWITTER DELENDA EST (■`w´■)

...right after TEH FAQS, which is still calling Saigo no Nindou a "beat 'em up!" The heresy never stops! :shock:
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sima Tuna »

Inb4 "bloodborne is just a 3d version of Two Crude Dudes!" :lol:

I'll have to buy arcade rygar from hamster one of these days. I've been going through their catalogue on switch to make sure I have most of the top-quality stuff. Mainly with an eye for the beat em ups and beltscrollers, as those are my personal favorites. I think Vendetta is my favorite Hamster-ported game so far. They did a real service bringing such a top-notch title to modern consoles. I had a surprising amount of fun with Mutation Nation, too. Despite all its jank. Maybe someday I'll try for a 1cc. 1ccs of both games seem very doable.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by it290 »

Air Master Burst wrote: It's less about dedicated platforms and more about ease of access. I just looked up "rygar arcade" on youtube and the top result is a video of some very competent play. If this is the first thing someone actually curious about the game finds on something as huge as youtube, I don't think we have to worry too much about some other random youtubers somehow writing authoritative historical notions about it.

ETA: That said, I totally agree that places like this are the best for real info. This thread is the whole reason I finally made an account here; I can't find anywhere else with this level of discussion about my beloved belt-scrollers!
Talking about the game itself is one thing, getting historical context around its development and being able to hunt down and have access to the original developers is another. Parish has (sort of) that kind of clout and access, right now. A random Youtuber doesn't. If he doesn't give a shit about Rygar AC he's not going to try and talk to the developers. Which is totally fine, the onus is not on him to do that. But dismissing the game with a complete lack of research also has the potential to discourage someone else from looking into it, and that person might also find that A: it's their thing, or B: they're interested in researching it further.

It really just boils down to a general rule of life: don't talk shit about things you don't know about.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by it290 »

Sima Tuna wrote:Inb4 "bloodborne is just a 3d version of Two Crude Dudes!" :lol:

I'll have to buy arcade rygar from hamster one of these days. I've been going through their catalogue on switch to make sure I have most of the top-quality stuff. Mainly with an eye for the beat em ups and beltscrollers, as those are my personal favorites. I think Vendetta is my favorite Hamster-ported game so far. They did a real service bringing such a top-notch title to modern consoles. I had a surprising amount of fun with Mutation Nation, too. Despite all its jank. Maybe someday I'll try for a 1cc. 1ccs of both games seem very doable.
To try and bring this thread somewhat back on topic: Vendetta is super-dope. Such a unique and cool bemu, with interesting characters and mechanics. Quite possibly the best Konami beltscroller, although the character imbalance is pretty suspect. The game it reminds me the most of for some reason is the PC Engine port of Double Dragon 2, which does all kinds of things unique to it and has a weird reliance on pattern finding to lock down enemies getting up after knockdown. Vendetta is a lot better in the variety and theme categories, though.

I'd also quite recommend Zero Team from Seibu Kaihatsu as it puts its own unique spin on the formula and is lots of fun.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Air Master Burst »

it290 wrote:Quite possibly the best Konami beltscroller
This isn't exactly a high bar to clear, but I'm looking forward to giving it a shot.

Zero Team is dope as hell.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Vendetta/Crime Fighters 2 is another of those uncommonly, pitch-perfectly generous arcade games. Rather than a bomb, you have a brutal free knockdown/blow-away ala KOF that puts literally any enemy on their back, and a vicious stomp to go with it... and enemies that've been floored n' stomped actually recover in dizzy, ripe for a Technos-style coup de grace. Weapons tear through crowds and are plentiful, too.

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^ a deliberate timeout causing hordes of extra enemies to spawn. You don't face hordes like this normally... but you absolutely could handle 'em, if you did. :cool:

It might sound over-generous, but the tradeoff is (just like Rygar) death is kept close. Even the lowliest zako can halve your HP if you're caught napping, and weapons break, the really powerful ones after one shot - like the marvelously grisly Brick, a 1HKO headshot that drops its victim like a sack o' shite. (if you were left frozen by Splatterhouse Part III's criminally lame cinderblock, CF2 will cure what ails you)

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Wickedly precise controls, bridging oldschool Technos "beat em til they puke" grit with Capcom's user-friendly autograpples. Brilliant game. Easily among the best ever on ACA, I'd put it on par with Rygar and Zero Team (another preternaturally well-balanced AC brawler) for sure.

Check out these dudes stealing the Vendetta crew's look! :shock:
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sima Tuna »

Part of what makes Vendetta work so well is the meticulous crafting of every element. You don't have any recovery mechanics. But that feels entirely deliberate, because enemies and bosses aren't cheap bullshit like you'd see in some other beltscrollers. There are no enemies who randomly become invincible, a la BURNING FIGHT: DUFFY MONOGATARI. Boss i-frames are used sparingly too, and each boss has its own behaviors which can be worked around.

Character balance is the missing piece in Vendetta. The game would be perfect if every character were approximately as viable as the others. Sadly though, you are better off pretending Bulk Brogan and Dumpy Mr. T don't exist. I'll fight for my boy Blood's right to exist, though. He's not as busted as Boomer, but still solid.

Zero Team is another excellent beltscroller on ACA. I guess, if I were to nominate the top 3 (or so) beat em ups (that I have played) Hamster has provided, the list would go Vendetta, Zero Team and then a distant third with Mutation Nation. I just like Mutation Nation. Double Dragon arcade is, sadly, a broken game. Broken not by poor mechanics, but by unacceptable performance. You can fix the game if you run it in emulation, but I don't believe the ACA release does. I haven't played Double Dragon 2 arcade and can't speak to its quality.

Most of the other arcade beat em ups on ACA which I have played were disappointing in some way or another. The capcom scrollers were never handed to Hamster (unfortunately,) and the SNK brawlers are largely crap. I still hold out hope for Crime Fighters 3 and Undercover Cops to make it to ACA. Ninja Baseball Bat Man would be dope as hell, but I'm less optimistic Hamster will be able to get it.

I spoke about this in another thread, but with Hamster releasing Gun Frontier soon, it's possible Growl could make an appearance. I like Growl, but Zero Team and Crime Fighters 2 are just better games. Growl does have spectacle, I will give it that.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Sima Tuna wrote:I spoke about this in another thread, but with Hamster releasing Gun Frontier soon, it's possible Growl could make an appearance. I like Growl, but Zero Team and Crime Fighters 2 are just better games. Growl does have spectacle, I will give it that.
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Killer tunes from YACK (Metal Black, Elevator Action Returns, Border Down) too. :cool:

I like to think of the floored kicking as CF2's concession to recovery moves. You can legit do a shitton of damage to nearby enemies, even bringing them to the floor; plus there's some neat specialised tricks, like countering Fat Boi's splash, and Freddy Rude's claw dive. Holy fuck, I looove killing that Choi Boungesque asshole with one of those. Image

It's just enough of a get-out clause to get your back on your feet, with the obvious (and kinda unique) proviso that you'll never actually get to use it without being knocked down to begin with. Really sharply-designed game, the iffy character balance aside.

DD2AC cleans up a lot of what makes DD1AC a practical salvage project. Most notably, it only slows down very rarely, unless you deliberately forge ahead to put a crapton of enemies onscreen (actually a useful tech in st3-2 aka COWSHED CARNAGE Image)

The Elbow is every bit as AI-confounding, but its nerfed damage means you end up using it as intended, for pincer escapes and the occasional sneaky knockdown. And you have a reliable, powerful poke in the sidekick, which really smooths things out overall.

It's a very basic game, ultimately, even by the standards of late 80 brawling. Enemies of all sorts tend to be best dealt with the same way: off-axis sidekicks into Tatsumakis. This said, it actually looks more repetitive than it feels; it's a viciously unforgiving game, and the timing for catching enemies from off-axis is pretty tight, varying subtly from type to type - and there's also the Tatsumaki input itself; a snap, imo, but it takes some concentration. (there's an "Easy" setting for it, which I don't recommend, as it'll interfere with the plain old flying kick, which also has its uses; plus, unwanted Tatsus are hellaciously punishable by the AI).

Sadly, it loses out on DD1's inimitably violent hit and KO SFX... that upchucking barf, I dunno where they sampled it from (going by DD2 dev tales, it might've been recorded in-house), but what a modern marvel of electronic entertainment. Nothing else says "beaten into a bib and a pair of Depends" like it. :lol:

Decent game, leagues less compromised than the original, certainly worth a try if you want to love ACDD1 but can't get around its flaws. As said, I regard that game as a salvage project... use the Elbow only to escape crowds (or disarm would-be bludgeoners), and stagger progress so there aren't too many foes onscreen, and I have a good time with the classically footwork-intensive combat. Killing Bobos with a stiff kick to the neck never gets old. :cool: I particularly like the unique anti-pincer footwork, too... it takes a little sussing out, but you'll notice enemies are effectively harmless while switching sides to your back. Surprisingly good fun to exploit in the heat of battle.

BOXING =/= BRAWLING (■`w´■)
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I gotta admit too, using the "grapple release" exploit (grapple an enemy, land two knee bashes, hit [away/towards] to release and re-grab, then repeat) in conjunction with the Elbow is good fun too, nice n' headshot-gritty taking Williams and Ropers down with that ice-cold temple shot :cool: It's undeniably a pet project/make-what-you-will game, as opposed to a bonafide classic like OG Kunio, but I get a lot enjoyment from it. Nice n' short too, easy to go for a brisk kill time now and then.
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BrianC
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BrianC »

BIL wrote:Killing Bobos with a stiff kick to the neck never gets old
You killed Bobo!

BIL, have you tried any of the SoR2 Genesis hacks? One of them hacks the Fight 'n Rage characters into the game, right down to the enemies and bosses. Another one has the main characters from The Ninja Warriors Once again kicking butt in Wood Oak City.
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BIL
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Haven't tried those myself, but it's always good to hear TNWA's getting some love. :mrgreen:

Just crossposting from the main forum's ACA thread, since Taito single screeners are a particularly favourite subject of mine. This week saw Chack n' Pop, which I believe is the eldest representative, after Real Baked Goods Homicide Simulator The Fairyland Story and of course Bubble Bobble.

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Whoa, Chack n' Pop is a more novel affair than I was expecting. :o Screenshots suggest Bubble Bobble Zero, but it recalls Pac-Man and Bomberman just as much. Has BB's nefarious monsters (literally, Monsta and Mighta getting early appearances in) amidst Pac's dense mazes, the player armed with Bomberman's deliberately harrowing self-lethal explosives... the real twist is, it still plays like a side-viewed, gravity-bound platformer, and unlike the free-floating enemies, Mr. Chackn' (a flightless bird?) can't leave the ground.

So vertical movement relies on concerted use of his stork legs and uncanny ceiling walk ability. It might seem a little ungainly at first - I wonder if this was designed for four-way stick? - but wedging Chackn' onto ceilings is a surprisingly tactile and wiggle-friendly process, ultimately quite intuitive. This is the earliest I've seen 2D ceiling traversals, pretty smooth; particularly with the game's two buttons dedicated to [left bomb] and [right bomb].

Golden bird bro walking on ceilings like a veritable Alien Soldier :shock:
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As expected of Taito, there's quite a bit of optional depth to proceedings, paired with the blood-simple primary objective of nuking those Heart Cages and RETURNING THE LOVE topside, then following suit and getting the hell out before the enemies either kill you on the spot, or seal the exit to bury you alive. Image

I don't want to see your sad face any more!
Ai wo Torimodose!!

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The overall effect is a bit Lode Runner-esque; seeing the path to your target is one thing, getting there with your limited vertical movement quite another. Paired with the aggressive monsters and devastating, yet trickily time-delayed and player-lethal bombs, it's the sort of survival-geared realtime puzzle/action I find fiendishly compulsive, and a nice break from more purely reflexive, twitch-based action. Not a world away from the simmering single-screener intensity of Gain Ground.

It's slightly perturbing how, just like Pac, Chackn' can't stay still, always motoring his way along. He'll stop after a sharp drop, or hitting an impasse, but both leave plenty of scope for trouble. Fortunately, the sharp controls make keeping him in one spot a snap.

It's impressive how starkly divergent Chackn', The Fairyland Story and Bubble Bobble all play; I used to assume the earlier two were simple run-ups to BB, but you could really spend a hundred hours on one without guessing a thing about the others. Don't want to bang my ragged "Where in the name of God and all that is holy is ACA Rainbow Islands" drum too hard, but having Chackn' in the lineup makes that difficult. Image
Last edited by BIL on Fri Jul 22, 2022 10:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Bassa-Bassa »

Sima Tuna wrote: and the SNK brawlers are largely crap.
Sengoku 2 is awesome. I think I mentioned it here long ago, but it's quite unique in the good sense. Just don't play it like if it were Final Fight (something you must do with most NG brawlers, in actuality) and don't look around for hints on how to play it as the best part is figuring it out.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sima Tuna »

Bassa-Bassa wrote:
Sima Tuna wrote: and the SNK brawlers are largely crap.
Sengoku 2 is awesome. I think I mentioned it here long ago, but it's quite unique in the good sense. Just don't play it like if it were Final Fight (something you must do with most NG brawlers, in actuality) and don't look around for hints on how to play it as the best part is figuring it out.
Sengoku 2 is pretty cool. It feels more like a bushido blade game than a brawler though. Even compared to other weapons-based brawlers like Knights of the Round or King of Dragons.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

I wonder if Sengoku 1 & 2 were influenced at all by Jaleco's Takeda Shingen (AC). A seemingly under-mentioned member of that small, chequered, but always fascinating post-Kunio, pre-Final Fight late 80s brawler set. Just like Sengoku 1 & 2, it's got a decided Touch Of Death ethos, with pokes less the openings to further attacks, more ends in themselves; often fatal on lesser enemies, and painful on player lifebars, with extended combos typically spelling death for even large targets.

It's a shame that while much of this set combines impressively characterful presentation with spotty mechanics, Shingen's a bit of an ugly duckling with its tight action obscured by amateurish sprites and mediocre BGs. That said, it does have a pretty strong atmosphere befitting its historical setting, with some striking underscoring by koto and taiko. The occasional explosive shells laying about for you to boot at enemies are a novel and very practical detail, too.

Handy tip from TZW_Guile! Exactly like AC DD2, Shingen's ostensible "rear guard" poke is in fact much better-used in frontal assaults. Just like Technos's game, the command interpreter is tight enough that if he didn't know better, a spectator might not realise the player is about-facing to deliver those vicious strikes.

Said it before and will say again, the thought of this deliberately spare, mortal swordplay via Last Blade 2 presentation gives me a mahfuckin chub Image No outlandish triple-digit air combos, etc... I'm talking opening six bastards' throats and booting the seventh into a burn pit with one deadly-accurate riposte before the boss rolls up for a 3HKO clash. Image

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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Bassa-Bassa »

I was told once that Sengoku's earliest precursors were Nichibutsu's Kozure Ookami and Kaneko's Kabuki Z, which seemingly predate T. Shingen. The latter feels so close to Sengoku in many regards that it's hard to deny. The former is really an early attempt which, as I was told, almost has more in common with Spartan X/Kung Fu Master than with Double Dragon (enemies never stop coming at you, they die with a single hit...), a bit like Sengoku 2 if it weren't because when you figure it out this is purely a memorizer.
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BIL
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Haha, I had no idea there even was a Kozure Ookami coinop, let alone by Nichibutsu! I wonder if Hamster would ever spring for that one, given they own the rights to Nichibutsu's catalogue IIRC. I'd pick that one up just for the license.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Air Master Burst »

BIL wrote:Haha, I had no idea there even was a Kozure Ookami coinop.
It looks pretty dope! I just watched a video and the sudden 1v1 samurai duels are cool as shit, even if the actual gameplay for them looks like it's basically Samurai Kirby from Kirby Super Star. The baby carriage with guns powerup is a riot, too! Looks like it runs well enough in MAME, I'll try to give it a spin this evening. I know very little about the franchise but it doesn't look like that should matter too much.
King's Field IV is the best Souls game.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Bassa-Bassa »

It's important to know at least that the backpack he carries is indeed a baby.

It's quite experimental, clearly developed before Double Dragon got released. You have different guard actions, some platforming... It's a fine game, kind of works, maybe too hard for what it is, but again, it's as old as DD.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Jeneki »

I was taking a look at Gaia Crusaders on the recent Mister core, and noticing many similarities with Sengoku 3. Oh I see it's the same developer (Noise Factory).

Makes me wonder why Sengoku 3 wasn't titled Gaia Crusaders 2 instead. I suppose Sengoku had better name recognition?
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Despatche
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Despatche »

Yeah, it's a mystery. At that point, Noise Factory had thrown in with SNK, and I guess someone somewhere felt the subject matter was close enough to call it a Sengoku game. Of course, that may or may not make Gaia Crusaders some kind of retroactive Sengoku spinoff, but maybe it's best to not think about such things.
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