Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[__SKYe]

well fook me I cleared the game legit.

Congratulations, great job.
You are now a part of the Ninja Ryukenden Task Force as well.

[BIL]

well fook me I cleared the game legit.

Everything up to stage 5 was that whirlwind of killin' the game's chalked up to be as muh newfound skills and general layout memory kicked in.
6-2 was a LOT of face mashing and cursing.
I tried monsieur baton's strat of jumping and running straight under a bird spawn (after the gunner) but it just slapped me to my doom..

The rage grew and I almost choked at the end - one hit away from dying on jacko.
I understand why Squire loves the fight though.
I AIN'T GOIN BACK, MAAAN.

Ahhhhh.
fuc this game. Emulator faggots represent!!
Time to enjoy the ending.

How are you getting on, Immy?

Attaboy BURINJU

[FinalBaton]

Haha well done Blinge

I also love the Jacquio fight! It's a good challenge. There's some rhyme and reason to his shots, it's not just random, and if your dodging skills are sharp and your mind is focused then you can keep up with him and barely ever getting touched!



Also on a side note, I just bought a JP Capcom Generations Vol.2 copy. I didn't even knew about this releas until a few pages ago, so I'm pretty stoked to have a close-to-arcade version of the game that plays in 240p!
And it wasn't too expensive either, $15 US

[Sumez]

Congrats Blinge!

I've been on this subject many times now, but I'll repeat myself a bit - while learning how to handle each situation on every stage is a core element to Ninja Gaiden I'd never call it a "memorizer" because everything going on in the game is only relevant the moment it appears on the screen, giving you time to react to it. There are a couple of exceptions, such as some of the jetpack ninjas etc., but mostly memorization is just an extra tool that makes the game manageable. The thing is, I'm very bad at remembering stage layouts in games, which often becomes a problem for me in vertical shmups, as I can play the same stage a billion times and still get surprised by every single enemy pattern. I feel like Ninja Gaiden trains my intuitition towards specific situations rather than forcing me to remember where and when they appear, and what is coming up ahead of time.

I just started playing around with Metal Storm today, now there's a memorizer. If you aren't prepared for what's coming up, it's absurdly easy to put yourslf in a situation that will cause you a lot of pain.

[Immryr]

nice work blinge. i haven't actually played since thursday, or maybe friday, so no new progress. i'll get back on it tomorrow, hopefully i haven't lost the progress i had made so far!

[Blinge]

I also love the Jacquio fight! It's a good challenge. There's some rhyme and reason to his shots, it's not just random, and if your dodging skills are sharp and your mind is focused then you can keep up with him and barely ever getting touched!

Haha, it went that well sometimes in practice but then I'd slip up and suddenly have to deal with four flippin' fireballs.
In my winning battle I was all messed up and stopped attacking, just stalled and dodged until he was throwing towards the centre from left again and I got my rhythm back.

No 1cc attempts for the time being, I've got smaller fish to fry..

What's that BIL!? despite your cunning censorship, is that youtube comment not you? very suspicious.
I'll have my revenge.

Edit:
Thanks everyone, glad to be on the team

[BIL]

Sometimes I consider communicating exclusively in copypasta'd Youtube shitposts, just to see if anyone notices.



LEGIT CONTRA PLAYERS ONLY

Also on a side note, I just bought a JP Capcom Generations Vol.2 copy. I didn't even knew about this releas until a few pages ago, so I'm pretty stoked to have a close-to-arcade version of the game that plays in 240p!
And it wasn't too expensive either, $15 US

Excellent choice. One of the all-time greatest bang-per-buck pickups, that one.

[Sumez]

Yeah, gets you a slowdown-free Chohmakaimura, too. Personally I prefer solid state to mechanical media till the day I die, but Capcom Generations is a really great way out for people who don't want to waste the absurd amounts on video games that I tend to do

[trap15]

Tangentially - we've occasionally discussed the notion of a "Garegga-esque" sidescroller in this thread:

I wonder, are there any platformers or 2d action games that could also be said to be the "Garegga of X"? Obviously some of them count from a speed running perspective, since concepts like damage boosting are somewhat Yagawa-esque, but I wonder if there are any games that count from a "normal" or survival play based perspective. Esoteric and counter-intuitive tactics and long term planning based on manipulating the game? Closest I can think of is Ghosts and Goblins esoteric enemy manipulation tactics.

Could always consider Magic Sword, what with the constantly draining health that you frequently sacrifice for score, which rewards you with more health via the frequent score-based health drops. Also the overabundance of RNG in a score run

[BIL]

I floated Magic Sword at the time, but lacked (and still lack) the expertise to really argue for it. Heartened to hear I was on the right track though, ta. Such a brutal game, I love it.

[Bloodreign]

Yeah, gets you a slowdown-free Chohmakaimura, too. Personally I prefer solid state to mechanical media till the day I die, but Capcom Generations is a really great way out for people who don't want to waste the absurd amounts on video games that I tend to do

That's why I bought the Saturn and PS1 versions, PS1 version mainly where I wouldn't have to see a now loading screen between levels like on the Saturn version. One of those rare times the PS1 version kind of outdoes the Saturn, quite strange given the game too (Daimakaimura).

[trap15]

I floated Magic Sword at the time, but lacked (and still lack) the expertise to really argue for it. Heartened to hear I was on the right track though, ta. Such a brutal game, I love it.

There's also the "depending on how much life you have left, drops are different", so you end up wanting to use up your HP to a certain amount so you get better luck on getting higher value items and whatnot. It's a very Garegga-style depth IMO.

[Sumez]

That's why I bought the Saturn and PS1 versions, PS1 version mainly where I wouldn't have to see a now loading screen between levels like on the Saturn version. One of those rare times the PS1 version kind of outdoes the Saturn, quite strange given the game too (Daimakaimura).

YMMV, but I'd definitely go with the PS1 one, too. Only real downside to it are the inexplicably darker background graphics, but I really don't think that matters.
Essentially though, having cached out for the arcade PCB, I'd alwyas opt to bust that one out, if nothing else, it gets Arthur's feet hidden in the grass, rather than just displaying them in front of it, like a scrub!

I floated Magic Sword at the time, but lacked (and still lack) the expertise to really argue for it. Heartened to hear I was on the right track though, ta. Such a brutal game, I love it.

There's also the "depending on how much life you have left, drops are different", so you end up wanting to use up your HP to a certain amount so you get better luck on getting higher value items and whatnot. It's a very Garegga-style depth IMO.

How much of this stuff is in the SNES version? I feel like that port is insanely crippled, but I still really enjoy playing it.

[BIL]

There's also the "depending on how much life you have left, drops are different", so you end up wanting to use up your HP to a certain amount so you get better luck on getting higher value items and whatnot. It's a very Garegga-style depth IMO.

Jesus that sounds rad.

How much of this stuff is in the SNES version? I feel like that port is insanely crippled, but I still really enjoy playing it.

I'm a noob regarding the finer points of AC and SFC alike, but on raw survival I really like the latter too. It's obviously much easier, even before factoring in the slowdown, but still not a total cakewalk - by typical console standards it's quite substantial-feeling. More importantly, you're freer to experiment with weaker partners and inefficient routes that'll give you a hard time in AC. Worth having as a "black label" imo.

By the way, just dropping one of my periodic reminders that I am watching you all... through a camera! (・｀W´・)

Contra Hard Corps > Contra The Hard Corps :3

Nah for real I was in a minor funk earlier this week, reading the 16bit collector hell thread. I sometimes get tempted to offload my NTSCJ Hard Corps & Bloodlines for the marginally tougher US versions I grew up with, but it's such a minor upgrade I kinda can't be bothered. Especially as the gap in value is no longer "LMAO HORY SHIET IM RICH" and more "oh hmm, I have enough left over for burger 3: "

I've long since made peace with NTSCJ Hard Corps myself, as although I prefer the spectacularly violent US instadeaths, i) JP is literally the exact same game with hitpoints, so a no-miss is functionally the same (plus HP's there for playing co-op with nubby friends), and ii) the US version's removal of hitpoints without rebalancing anything results in at least one bit of Kaizo Mario cheese, in the Takeda Robot's final form. You know, where he locks onto an area with visible crosshairs, which in stark contravention of international videogame law mark the only safespot from the unreactably fast fullscreen hellstorm about to land on you. Now granted, even in JP a theoretical first-timer could be on 1HP and screwed likewise, but the removal of any survival chance whatsoever goes from amusingly brazen to outright shoddy.

Anyway though, it's Vampire Killer that was still niggling me. UNTIL YESTERDAY. ;3 I've long maintained the JP->US Expert Difficulty boost is more of a polishing tweak than a credible gap, and concentrated overwhelmingly in the first stage at that - but niggle niggle! Fired up US ver last night to refresh my memory, while browsing ebay in deep despair, and ended up no-missing Expert after not playing that version+mode in friggin years now. Replayed VK on same settings immediately after and yep, the difference is pretty illusory. So at last, I get to the point of this post: it's time for a slightly fresher stage-by-stage breakdown!



st1-1 (garden): no difference lmao.
1-2 (entryway pt1): No difference.
1-3 (basement): identical. All ghosts present and accounted for - as are all ghosts throughout the game. Praise the lord! :O If VK was lacking even one of these wonderful varmints, I'd have to give it the boot! Best enemies in the game imo.
1-4 (entryway pt2): identical.
1-5 (dungeons): biggest and best US upgrade by far, which still isn't saying much tbh. Penultimate area adds infinitely respawning turbo bats, aimed at your back. Excellent complication to the otherwise overmatched boney-kuns.
1-6 (boss approach): identical.

st2: ah, my beautiful Atlantis. ¦3 This stage is fookin identical save two changes, the first subtle and the second a bit daft:

i) platform-orbiting fuzzies move a tick faster here, and in stage 6. It's not immediately apparent, compare both versions side by side.

ii) Golem has one more segment, putting his head a bit higher offscreen. LOLOL. Now if they'd removed the safe spot at the left screen edge, we'd be talkin'. (needless to say, if you use that safespot YOUR SCARED LMAO)

st3: ah, my beautiful Pisa. ¦3 This stage is fookin identical in all regards. Every lovely Harpy spawn in opening section present, with respawn frequency unchanged. I love VK Harpies, meaty as fuck to take down.

st4: ah, my beautiful Munitions Factory. ¦3 This stage is fookin identical in all regards. Penultimate section's infinitely respawning backstabber turbo bats (the ones cloned to st1.5 in US) are all present and correct.

st5: another superbly action-packed stage with one minor change: Evil Pillar miniboss's fireballs launch in threes in US, versus pairs in JP. Makes him a tad trickier to shut down, though shut him down expert players will. Cool bit of tuning.

st6: Aha. This was always my pick for Bloodlines' biggest difficulty boost by far - where Death gives a sole life restore in VK, you get nothing whatsoever here, turning the stage into a considerably grueling trial. As noted above, the fuzzies are quicker too, making flawless passage through the inverted hall a far harder prospect.

However, despite making an absolute cock of said crossing (left the section with 50% HP), I was able to pull through to the end for the no-miss. I'm mentioning this to point out: I don't think the US version's harsher damage scale is global, unlike say Castlevania III's bone-crushing Loop 2 scale. I even had a last-minute scare to surprisingly little cost - nuked the fuck out of Drolta, because her skittery movement and oddly delayed pincer attack creep me out, leaving me with no ammo for Dracula's monster form. Was doing fine until being distracted by his last phase's cool Agonyface Pauldrons™ and got tangled up fucking underneath him. Oh god I'm d - wait, he only did like 2HP per hit before I got free and finished him off. Hmm.

TLDR: Bloodlines' Expert difficulty tune-ups are certainly there, but outside of st1.5's rather nice turbo bats, they're overwhelmingly for style points. Every enemy spawn from st2 to the end is identical to Vampire Killer Expert, only one boss (Evil Pillar) actually behaves differently, and only the final stage removes a health restore. US seems to do more damage in spots, but it's not universal and tbh if you're getting hit enough to die you deserve it. ;3

[Sumez]

Thanks for the Bloodlines writeup! Not that it'll ever matter, as I can never afford anything aside from my douchy European the-blood-was-actually-water version. but hey, if the choice of how to spend your money is between red water and death buffets, and observing grass in front of Knight Arthur's feet, that's just a matter of priority.

I can't stop thinking of Metal Storm since I played it last night. It's funny cause I kind of hated it while I was playing it. The puzzle aspect wasn't too appealing to me, the memorization aspect of several stages was tiresome, and I absolutely hated boss 6. But now I've just been watching videos of the game to no end. Including all three UraniumAnchor GDQ runs, BIL's 2-ALL no-miss, and even the Game Grumps series, and now I'm just itching to get back home and try the game again until I remember all the reasons why it pissed me off as I was playing.
I'm not sure I'll ever muster the patience to 2-ALL it, let alone credit feed through the second loop.

[BIL]

The fast pace, airtight handling and satisfaction of figuring out a good storming route make it deceptively compelling, imo. The action/puzzler aspect's definitely not for everyone, though.

If you're finding it rough going, make sure to use the passwords - they're an excellent training aid, functioning like the practice modes found in later generations' arcade ports. They track your life stock plus shield and powerup status, encouraging players to master the game stage by stage for better gear later on - and the game will even auto-enter your latest one if you reset the console and return to the PW screen. So it's dead easy to get back to where you were (continues are unlimited, but not very useful - they'll leave you without powerups, which can be awkward in Loop 1 and virtual suicide in Loop 2).

[Sumez]

Oh that's nice. Now that you mention it, that was actually my major gripe with the game. You seem to be at an absurd disadvantage for not having any weapon, while game over'ing is the only way to actually lose it - so whenever you're doing well, on your way to a 1CC, there's no issue, but it made practicing stages much harder. This especially killed the second loop for me, so I'm glad there's a way around it. Though it's kind of strange the continue function wouldn't just work like the password.

Is there only one extend for each loop, btw?

[Immryr]

for some reason i now cannot do the wall drop in 5-2....like.... at all. i wasn't having much of a problem with it last week. and when i do manage to do it i'm still getting wrecked by 5-3

[BIL]

Is there only one extend for each loop, btw?

IIRC (been a while), yeah, just the two extends - and the second loop's is so dangerous to get, you probably shouldn't bother.

IMO, the second loop's not worth trying without PWs. Right from st2, you'll be dealing with setups that'll almost certainly kill you outright, and continues will rapidly become useless - stuff like st3's armoured trains are simply impossible to handle effectively without powerups. If you kept your weapon on continuing it'd be different, but as-is you wanna hit reset and use the PWs to take down each stage methodically.

Fuuuck I love rushing the second loop version of st1. That ending turret+spike battery is a nightmare at first, but like all the game's roadblocks it's made for dismantling.

NOW THAT IS GRAVITY DANCIN:

Spoiler

The critical firing delay on enemy spawns is the sort of detail the PW practice makes it easier to notice and take advantage of. I used to consider loop 2 the game's hypothetical arcade version... having cleared it though, I'd say it's more accurate to call it the hellish second loop of an already tough arcade game (think Image Fight). It'll be hard to really proceed if you're getting massacred and struggling from a continue at every checkpoint.

[Sumez]

the second loop's is so dangerous to get, you probably shouldn't bother.

...you mean this?

[BIL]

Haha, sorry - there must be at least one more than I'd thought. The one I mean is in loop 2, stage 2-1, guarded by snapper traps. It's not worth bothering with imo... although interestingly, unlike most items, it'll respawn if you collect it then die escaping its nook. I wonder if that was intentional.

[Sumez]

Interdasting. I see it now in yer vids. Will try to get it next time. Seems like getting it should be no harder than the trap ahead which requires you to walk along with the greenthing as it's retracting. But I guess baiting the trap when escaping the room could be dangerous?
If I'm gonna 2-all this game I need all the 1-ups I can get.... especially respawning ones

[BIL]

It might indeed be more doable than I'm recalling. By the time I really attacked the loop I was going for pure survival, so I just went with what I could get without risking my neck too much. Also the loop 2 turbo-snappers are scary. :3

On a more casual tip, was just looking at Vampire Killer's tarot cards, to see if I could spot anything interesting. Seems like a pretty clear Tower/Fire and Wheel of Fortune motif on st3/Gargoyle and st4/Gear Steamer's cards, respectively... not sure what to make of st2/Golem's though. Death himself's cards are labeled "V," I guess due to st5/Queen of Moss not appearing here? Also, I've been interpreting Death's card wrong all these years. I thought he was supposed to be in flight and looking down/left, with his face partially hooded:



(think his first appearance from SOTN)

Spoiler

Turns out he's actually staring straight at the viewer from within darkness, his head askew and cloak thrown back to brandish a bloodied scythe. Much more eccentric and creepy imo - would love to see a hand-drawn take on it.

[Squire Grooktook]

^^^ grook, which version of daimakaimura do you recommend?

Definitely the JP arcade version. It's different enough with it's much more heated enemy behavior that I specifically use the Japanese name to denote which version I'm referring to lol.

Been a lot of discussion about how the excellent MD port compares. My understanding is that on expert difficulty, it should be equivalent to the Japanese Arcade version, though I'm not sure if there are some minor differences in difficulty.

Squire is an emulator scrub (;))

Not quite! I actually own quite a few of these games. Some purchased personally, some inherited from my brother.

Sadly, by the time the thought occurred to me to start picking up some of the classics, prices really hiked lol

[BIL]

Ultimately the play's the thing, as ever. Maybe more than ever, with idiocy like VGA grading and endemic AVGN knockoffs about. I'm something of a gamer/collector crossbreed, though, so I'm happiest spending a sizable chunk of my free time looking up neat stuff to collect and only getting good at a relative handful of games.

[Sumez]

I'm in the same boat. I continue to see more and more people around local "communities" here, who focus on building collections of eg. "every PAL N64 release", "every SCN release", etc. and it's baffling to me why you would waste shelf space on so many terrible titles, or in some cases even spend a lot of money on them, while aiming directly at inferior 50hz ports, too.

At the same time, seeing Gimmick (even in the Mr-version) or a Daimakaimura PCB sitting around in my tiny game room makes my dick absolutely hard, in a metaphorical sense of course, even though I could have played them just as well on an emulator.

[BIL]

Yes. I only burst out laughing at the last bit of that post cos it's true, metaphorically.

MEANWHILE IN SEALED GAME HEAVEN



^ YOU TELL EM MARK, GET SOME PAL MADDEN 95

[Shoryukev]

I'm sure all those sealed copies of Sneak King will come in handy the next time you run low on toilet paper.

[Sumez]

MEANWHILE IN SEALED GAME HEAVEN

Such an amazing find <3
"Mark" himself apparently made an entire series himself titled "Video game pickups" no. 1 through 45. He doesn't have a big ol' american flag covering the background though. Seems his definition of "retro" is Gamecube and PS3.
Does anyone actually watch random "these are the games I just got videos" from people they don't know? I mean, I get that maybe this one dude could toss out some cool facts about that new boxed Solbrain he just picked up and how it differs from Shatterhand, or maybe he could shed some light on the state of Daimakaimura ports, but without any game titles in the video title, I'd say it's a bit of a gamble

[Bloodreign]

And with Capcom Classics Collection 1 on the PS2, you can tell Capcom got lazy and just threw in the PS1 version of Ghouls because the same damned dark backgrounds rear their head again, damn it Capcom, that is one game you should've emulated the arcade version of (like Final Fight on the same collection). Hell most of the collection are just Cap Gen titles thrown on a disc and called it a day.

And you mentioned the feet in the grass, oh man did that ever raise a stink several years back, with one AirradeX going on forums and raising tangents about one minor detail, and making a Youtube video all about the damned etail that 995 of people would've never noticed. This place was one which did not escape his wrath about it.