The Cave fund

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?

Yes
22
48%
No
16
35%
... what?
8
17%
 
Total votes: 46

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Rob
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Post by Rob »

MadSteelDarkness wrote: Donate? Pffft. If I'm ponying up millions, those fuckers are working for me.
No kidding, I think I'd want to start up a small company after buying up Psikyo and Takumi talent. Psikyo vs. Takumi: The Shooting would be the first release. Then Sengoku Ace 3, then some startlingly original games. Either that or Mars Matrix 2.

Kind of funny that Cave is the subject here when they're putting out crap regularly.
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Post by icycalm »

Yeah it is funny. And Global Warming is not happening and NASA never went to the moon.
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Limbrooke
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Post by Limbrooke »

If they allowed themselves to go bankrupt then why throw more money at a sinking ship?
I already know the outcome=lose more money.
Nothing lasts forever anyway, so what difference is it to breathe life into a company which couldn't breathe on it's own to somehow delay the inevitable.
I'm not terribly fond of Cave, but I do enjoy some of their work FYI.
I feel my sentiments can be applied to X company, not just Cave. :wink:

Regarding buying Cave? If I'm a millionaire, and again, they were broke, I doubt I'd want another headache apart from the one I get from eating ice cream sandwiches all day sitting on my yacht in the Mediterranean.
It would be nice to offer incentive payments to localize games, but if they go, then so be it.
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iatneH
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Post by iatneH »

Rob wrote:Sengoku Ace 3
That already happened and it isn't pretty.
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sven666
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Post by sven666 »

caves a stock comapny no?

why not just buy majority of their stock and then point your finger at the board meetings...?

ofcourse buying the majority of r8zing would make more sense 8)

straight up donating money for whatever reason is not very productive meethinks...
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Rob
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Post by Rob »

iatneH wrote:
Rob wrote:Sengoku Ace 3
That already happened and it isn't pretty.
I'm ignoring it, believe me. (that's the beauty of calling a new game SA3. kind of like Revenge of Shinobi but in the right)
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Twiddle
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Post by Twiddle »

Personally I'd like Seibu and Takumi to be alive again

or Cave working on more games with less asinine chain mechanics like Dangun
so long and tanks for all the spacefish
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Post by Icarus »

sven666 wrote:ofcourse buying the majority of r8zing would make more sense 8
GRRRRRRR!

8ing still exists, but seem content to put out fucking pachinko, crap fighting games, mobile phone content and other assorted crap. The only mention of the legendary Raizing is in their history page, and even then they have an incomplete database, missing stuff like Mahou Daisakusen, Batrider, Bakraid and Great Mahou.

It angers me to think that a great company has been swallowed by an inept larger company, and is reduced to outputting crap now. -_-;;
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Post by Twiddle »

It's kind of sad that you need to include anime girls to sell your shooting game these days

else people other than those who care about shooting games won't play these games
so long and tanks for all the spacefish
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Post by Fighter17 »

Like I said before, start a publishing company.

You can port other shmup developer games onto different system, you can also release American PCBs of their games, and you can work together with some publishers.
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Rob
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Post by Rob »

Fighter17 wrote: You can port other shmup developer games onto different system, you can also release American PCBs of their games, and you can work together with some publishers.
And even make back some money. Which you can use to take out a full page ad in average gamer magazine explaining how to play it right. With pictures!

The possibilities: endless!
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elvis
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Re: The Cave fund

Post by elvis »

icycalm wrote:Would you consider donating 1 or 2 million of your money to them to keep making them? I mean, what is 1 or 2 million out of 156?
Heck yeah.

My standard "sit in my cubicle and daydream about winning the lottery" fantasy is funding my favourite independant games companies alla round the globe, and playing the results.

People have mentioned that they'd buy the company. I have zero business acumen, and likewise zero creative talent. I'd be bloody hopeless as a company leader. I'd much rather hand over the cash, and tell them to ship me a version of each game when it's complete.

I couldn't tell my grandmother to suck eggs, and I couldn't tell Cave how to make games. I just want to play them and have fun. :)

If I did want to run a gaming company and I had that sort of cash, I'd build a startup locally. That way I'm giving people from my home town/country a chance to start local and build their way up. I think training the next generation of game makers is just as important as funding the current generation.
Fighter17 wrote:Like I said before, start a publishing company.

You can port other shmup developer games onto different system, you can also release American PCBs of their games, and you can work together with some publishers.
Actually, that's a bloody good idea too.
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Post by Blue »

Perhaps this is slightly off topic, and if so I apologize.

I think Cave is worthy of respect, and financing them would be worthwhile. That would give us, optimistically, another 5 years of Cave shooters.

It would also be fun to start a new company, which would be a huge boon to the community if it worked out well. But as various people have said, it might not even produce quality product. And again, there's the longevity problem. How long could such a company last on a few million, before needing to support itself on sales figures?

But here's another idea...

It would be great to somehow motivate doujin developers to make a bunch of truly top-notch games. What about investing the money, and using the annual revenues as prize money in some sort of contest? We'd see game after game, every year for the foreseeable future. And maybe with the free publicity, new startup developers would get funded to make retail products.
Elvis wrote:I think training the next generation of game makers is just as important as funding the current generation.
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Post by jp »

Eh... for me I think that money would be much better spent elsewhere.


I.e. rebuilding Tecno Soft or something.
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Post by Fighter17 »

Rob wrote:
Fighter17 wrote: You can port other shmup developer games onto different system, you can also release American PCBs of their games, and you can work together with some publishers.
And even make back some money. Which you can use to take out a full page ad in average gamer magazine explaining how to play it right. With pictures!

The possibilities: endless!
Meh.


A good idea is just be a publisher of games and such. Look at Capcom and Takumi during the Dreamcast days. That's the type of publisher I want to be. Release a good number of NEW old school games, and release games that people know that they're going to like.
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Dandy J
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Post by Dandy J »

I would buy the company and get in on those mahjong and medal games; lots of money to be made there.
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zlk
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Post by zlk »

Buying Japanese stock (or a Japanese Company) for a non-Japanese is virtually impossible. I suppose that if you had 156 million dollars, you would have the connections to open some doors, but I think its against Japanese law for a non-Japanese to directly own Japanese stock. (I had a friend in Tokyo try to buy some stock for me and was told to do so directly was against the law.)
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Icarus
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Post by Icarus »

That sucks. While I can understand the idea of keeping the business strictly within the country, companies all over the world buy and sell stock to people/companies not native to that country. Having a closed economy doesn't do much for the possible expansion of the business and loses the benefits from a wider base of available potential shareholders.
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Post by neorichieb1971 »

2 million bucks isn't alot of money for a devco. One crappy selling game will eat that up in no time at all.


Since we are to assume Cave would be failing in this hyperthetical scenario. Putting any money into it would be foolish. Youd be better off burning 2 million to keep some homeless chap in LA warm for the night.
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Post by Limbrooke »

I'd like to then know how Renault managed to buy out Nissan a while back. Based on non-foreign investment in Japanese established companies allowance, that right there is clear indicator of the opposite, unless it had something to do with Bankrupty filling, or near of on behalf on Nissan.
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Post by neorichieb1971 »

If two companies are dealing together i'm sure thats ok. If your buying Japanese stock in a hostile bid takeover movement thats probably illegal under Japanese leglisation.

Japanese are very proud people, their status in the world was achieved through economic reform, hard work and excellent quality. It does not surprise me that they would want to keep this intact, internal to their own people. Its not about anything but control.

If American investors bought into Japanese companies its most likely alot of emphasis would be on outsourcing.

Think about it. Most Japanese cars in the USA are built in the USA. Yet alot of American cars are built or have parts outsourced from countries like Canada.

Like Xbox, Microsoft build the USA version in Mexico, the European version in Hungary and i'm sure the Japanese version is built in Taiwan or something. Hardly the major markets the company is aiming at is it?

Nintendo were offered 25 billion dollars in the cube/xbox era by Microsoft. Nintendo declined the offer which was very generous. Bill Gates could of just bought all the stock in the company for 25 billion, so it stands to reason a law is in place to protect Japanese companies from foreign investors. However, If Nintendo agreed that fee, it would of gone ahead as a mutual agreement.

If you look about a year back EA bought tons of Ubisoft stock and they crapped themselves.
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Post by GaijinPunch »

Buying Japanese stock (or a Japanese Company) for a non-Japanese is virtually impossible. I suppose that if you had 156 million dollars, you would have the connections to open some doors, but I think its against Japanese law for a non-Japanese to directly own Japanese stock. (I had a friend in Tokyo try to buy some stock for me and was told to do so directly was against the law.)
No it's not. All you need is a trading account at a Japanese firm. I believe there's an Etrade Japan even. Just gotta get an account. There might be some restrictions for non-citizens, and more for non-residents, but there are for any market. Most restrictions can be thanked to the good old US of A as well. They're very thorough in checking for offshore accounts. A friend opened an ETrade Singapore account, and said it was like getting checked for colon cancer.

The truth is, you don't want to buy Japanese stocks. They are traditionally a bitch to get into due to price. They trade at extremely high prices, which keeps the little guys out. Yahoo Japan's stock at 62,000 yen per share (that's down a lot.) Cave at a mere 535,000 yen per share. According to those stats, buying Cave will cost you a mere $90 million.

Wan to invest in Japan? Get involved in a Japanese fund. It's a few less forms every year you have to fill out. Thanks to 9/11, you have to declare any money (even $.01) you have in any overseas financial institution.
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zlk
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Post by zlk »

Limbrooke wrote:I'd like to then know how Renault managed to buy out Nissan a while back. Based on non-foreign investment in Japanese established companies allowance, that right there is clear indicator of the opposite, unless it had something to do with Bankrupty filling, or near of on behalf on Nissan.
I am not sure about the Renault situation. I just wanted to buy a very modest amount of stock in some Japanese companies. I was told I could not directly own the stock because I was not a Japanese citizen.
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Post by GaijinPunch »

I was told I could not directly own the stock because I was not a Japanese citizen.
Who exactly told you this? Rule number one though: Don't believe anyone...especially Japanese salarymen. I had my wife call to get the exact details on the world-wide income tax* which applies to foreigners living in Japan. She called the tax department of the ward office, to which they told her no such tax exists.

If Japanese weren't allowed to own Japanese stock, how do foreigners own their own companies in Japan?

*income earned abroad by any foreigner residing in Japan for 5 consecutive years is subject to Japanese income tax laws. It's recently been changed to anyone living 5 out of the previous 10 years.
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Post by elvis »

neorichieb1971 wrote:Nintendo were offered 25 billion dollars in the cube/xbox era by Microsoft. Nintendo declined the offer which was very generous. Bill Gates could of just bought all the stock in the company for 25 billion
I highly doubt that. There are strict anticompetative laws preventing such things. ESPECIALLY when someone as big as Microsoft attempt to take out the current industry leader and biggest competitor (check the sales figures - Nintendo are making a heck of a lot more money than both Microsoft and Sony who barely break even from their expensive console production).
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Post by Gungriffon Geona »

Personally, I'd rather spend that money reviving the Assault Suits series and getting it back to it's prime, before X-Naughts fucked it over. I mean really, they could've done better then ASV Zero.

Or, hell, I'd like to use it to fund one of my "dream projects". (IE some of my crazy ideas, one of which is a fairly interesting shmup about boss cores.)
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Post by neorichieb1971 »

elvis wrote:
neorichieb1971 wrote:Nintendo were offered 25 billion dollars in the cube/xbox era by Microsoft. Nintendo declined the offer which was very generous. Bill Gates could of just bought all the stock in the company for 25 billion
I highly doubt that. There are strict anticompetative laws preventing such things. ESPECIALLY when someone as big as Microsoft attempt to take out the current industry leader and biggest competitor (check the sales figures - Nintendo are making a heck of a lot more money than both Microsoft and Sony who barely break even from their expensive console production).
Bill Gates verbally went on record stating the money was on the table if Nintendo wanted it. On the condition that Nintendo scrap the cube project. Hiroshi Yamauchi took it to the Nintendo board and it was rejected on the grounds that Microsoft would take the company in a direction it was not willing to take.
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Post by RHE »

I think it's more important to support small developers by buying their games or via affordable donations, anyhow. This really would help to create more quality games if talent and capability are given. I don't believe that spending money in a company that made good games in past but now mahjong could really rehabilitate them.

This said, NG:DEV.TEAM would thankfully accept investions by a shmup millionare who's willing to break his piggybank on oldschool video game development. :P
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Post by kemical »

why donate when you can just hire all the good talent they have and get their designers to make new shooters... under the new name of "cavern"..
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Post by NRS »

Cers wrote:1. Buy DoDonPachi Campain (a piece of cake with 156mio $ )
2. Send it to Guru for dumping
3. Send the roms to the Mame-Team
4. Finally, all people can play that damn game....
Yes.
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