Cloning the Gamecube component cable

[BuckoA51]

You guys really must be kidding if you say 480p equals 1080p input on a 1080p set.

Nobody is saying that, but you can't make 480p magically as good as 1080p either, no matter what you do, and scaling on modern consumer sets of 480p is generally decent (with a few exceptions). If you disagree with this I don't mind, it's all subjective of course.

Oh and before I forget: I don't know what's all that fuss about the Xrgb mini having high input lag. The input lag is, at least on paper, not deniable, but taking into account that most people use customer TV sets which often outweigh that response time anyway makes this claim ridiculous. You should rather start to recommend people to watch out what kind of monitor they're buying instead of scaring them of with something 90% percent of gamers won't even realize.

Would you rather we denied there was any input lag to avoid "scaring" people, rather than giving the whole truth? I can't actually figure out what you're getting at here, but I see nothing ridiculous about an extra 20ms of input lag in the chain, just because most people don't realise it. Just because something doesn't bother you, doesn't mean it doesn't bother everyone. People can make up their own minds based on the facts if they think it's worth worrying about or not.

[RGB32E]

Sets that are really bad at 480p up-scaling are quite rare in my experience. Sure, some do better jobs than others, but few make a real hash of it, plus adding an external upscaler is going to mean more input lag.

You're missing the point here with a tangent about input lag, especially when there are "lagless" solutions like the Hi-Def NES. In the case of the UltraHDMI (or HDN for that matter), 1080p output will always give you a sharper image than 480p output, regardless of a given TVs handling of 480p.

Not saying a full custom upscale FPGA solution for the Gamecube wouldn't be nice, but it's not needed as much as it was for the N64.

Whether or not a FPGA upscaling is more/less need on the GCN or N64 is irrelevant, as both would be softer at 480p output when connected to a 1080p+ display.

I'd take a lag-free design over something that added a ton of input lag, yeah, though it's always good to have choices.

I don't think you'll find "more lag please" a popular vote item, and none of the upscaling XRGB units can realistically be characterized as having a "ton of input lag". You say choices are good, yet there is no such choice for sharp 1080p upscaling for the GCN like there is with the N64 or NES.

BuckoA51, have you captured any GCN games that actually have more than 640 active pixels?

Not that I remember, I'll keep an eye out.

Sounds good!

Regarding 480p, this is also a rumour I observed numerous times here (and as a result of discussions here?) in other forums as well. You guys really must be kidding if you say 480p equals 1080p input on a 1080p set. Nobody claimed TV sets wouldn't handle 480p correctly but since there is also extra processing involved, which isn't with 1080p, there is a very high chance your signal won't be displayed correctly in comparison to what you would get if you got 1080p in natively.

No kidding! Bucko won't acknowledge this point and makes more excuses.

I'm glad the GCVideo project exists and has made it to it's current state, but to claim that 480p output is "good enough" for those wanting to connect to a 1080p or 2160p display is just shenanigans!

Then again, there are those who choose to go in the opposite direction of sharp pixels.

[Guspaz]

I bought my gamecube exclusively for playing Gameboy games. I don't own a single gamecube game, and I only burned a copy of one game for testing (validate my soldering job on a controller, test video output, test mod chip installation that is used for GBI/GBP). The Wii's backwards compatibility support is completely irrelevant for me, and even for people who do play gamecube games, GBP support is important to a fair number of them.

People often forget that there are very few good ways to play game boy games in good quality. Take Game Boy Color games, for example. There is only one backlit handheld capable of playing them, the rare and expensive and uncomfortable AGS-101 revision of the Game Boy Advance SP. The original hardware had no lighting, and later hardware didn't support GBC games. The Super Game Boy also didn't support it. So if you want to play GBC games on a good screen with a comfortable controller, the only options are building a modified original GBA with an AGS-101 screen (and doing this with good condition parts could cost almost as much as the GC component cables), or using the Game Boy Player.

[RGB32E]

Oh and before I forget: I don't know what's all that fuss about the Xrgb mini having high input lag. The input lag is, at least on paper, not deniable, but taking into account that most people use customer TV sets which often outweigh that response time anyway makes this claim ridiculous. You should rather start to recommend people to watch out what kind of monitor they're buying instead of scaring them of with something 90% percent of gamers won't even realize.

Would you rather we denied there was any input lag to avoid "scaring" people, rather than giving the whole truth? I can't actually figure out what you're getting at here, but I see nothing ridiculous about an extra 20ms of input lag in the chain, just because most people don't realise it. Just because something doesn't bother you, doesn't mean it doesn't bother everyone. People can make up their own minds based on the facts if they think it's worth worrying about or not.

No one was describing that scenario. However, you're using FUD when you characterize all upscalers as having a "ton" of input lag.

People often forget that there are very few good ways to play game boy games in good quality. Take Game Boy Color games, for example.

UltraHDMI N64 plus Wide Boy 64 (CGB) and you're done! (Or just get a Retron 5 )

[BuckoA51]

No kidding! Bucko won't acknowledge this point and makes more excuses.

You make it sound like I'm actively standing in the way of someone developing a full upscaling 1080p GCVideo board If someone did develop such a thing I would of course be completely behind it and support it any way I could.

but to claim that 480p output is "good enough" for those wanting to connect to a 1080p or 2160p display is just shenanigans!

I don't think so, I doubt most people would pay 2 or 3 times more for a board that did 1080p when the 480p upscaling on most sets is pretty good as it is anyway. Of course us perfectionists on here are not most people

No one was describing that scenario. However, you're using FUD when you characterize all upscalers as having a "ton" of input lag.

Well I'd personally take a frame less input lag over a slightly sharper picture if I had to choose, but that's just me.

[Guspaz]

UltraHDMI N64 plus Wide Boy 64 (CGB) and you're done! (Or just get a Retron 5 )

Well, the Wide Boy series is super rare and expensive since it was never sold to the public, and I'm sure you're familiar with my position on the RetroN 5

[Shuco13]

You guys really must be kidding if you say 480p equals 1080p input on a 1080p set.

Nobody is saying that, but you can't make 480p magically as good as 1080p either, no matter what you do, and scaling on modern consumer sets of 480p is generally decent (with a few exceptions). If you disagree with this I don't mind, it's all subjective of course.

What I'm trying to say is that, considering every set scales differently, with 480p you're always at the risk of uneven scaling in comparison to a full-res signal.

Oh and before I forget: I don't know what's all that fuss about the Xrgb mini having high input lag. The input lag is, at least on paper, not deniable, but taking into account that most people use customer TV sets which often outweigh that response time anyway makes this claim ridiculous. You should rather start to recommend people to watch out what kind of monitor they're buying instead of scaring them of with something 90% percent of gamers won't even realize.

Would you rather we denied there was any input lag to avoid "scaring" people, rather than giving the whole truth?

No, but preventing people from buying the Framemeister, people who might already be happy with a 90ms consumer TV, only because they heard "it lags, hence isn't good" is not fair. Calling the input lag "high" might lead to that misconception and I would therefore suggest refraining from that term and make people aware, that as a starting point, only the absolute amount of lag is the one that counts.

[bobrocks95]

This thread has kind of turned into pandemonium hasn't it?

The great thing is that the project is open-source, so if someone wants to come along and change the FPGA and add 1080p upscaling, they can. Unseen doesn't seem interested in doing that right now.

It would obviously look better on a 1080p television with upscaling, and it would obviously cost quite a bit more. Some people would pay that premium. Others wouldn't.

The Gameboy Player with Extrems' GBI software is currently the best way to play Gameboy games on a television, if that's a thing you want to do. The Wideboy 64 is too rare to even bother mentioning.

If you don't care about that, you probably use a Wii anyway. It looks about the same, but keep in mind this adds digital audio as well, which is another benefit if you're a person who wants it.

Everyone's kind of just punting subjective opinions back and forth... If you want this you will get it, if you don't, you won't...

[darcagn]

There's only one thing the Wii will never be able to do and that's playing gameboy games natively.

You can't play Phantasy Star Online natively on the Wii because it only supports the Gamecube Broadband Adapter hardware.

All the pros outweigh that by far: Wii game support,

Sadly, there are very few Wii games worth mentioning... And they can all be played on the Wii U anyway.

affordable component support

Sure. Although the component image is better on the GameCube and this has been objectively proven on this board with captures of test patterns.

easier softmod

I vastly prefer hardmods. There's less chance of getting into an unrecoverable bricking situation down the line or screwing up the software on the system.
Install chip, never deal with it again.

better and more homebrew support

Outside of emulators I don't know what Wii-exclusive homebrew is worth using? And all of that works on the Wii U anyway. And if you're here to begin with you're probably not the biggest fan of emulation...

built in Wifi, cheap BBA

I hardwire all my consoles, so the WiFi doesn't mean that much to me, although you win with the cheaper ethernet cost.

If you want native HDMI just go with the WiiU.

You're in a GameCube thread and suggest a console that can't play GameCube games natively?



I realize that many of the above opinions will very much put me in the minority of most people. I don't expect everyone to agree with me.
But I love the GameCube for the simplicity of it. It's a simple box I put a GameCube or Game Boy game in and get the best GameCube or Game Boy experience from.
All the other shit I can do with my Wii U. Having a GameCube and a Wii U means that you can do everything the Wii can, and better, the only exception I can think of is not being able to drivemod a Wii U. The only downside to it is cost.
And we're on a site where people spend hundreds of dollars on equipment and cabling to make decades-old games' pixels look slightly better, so I'm pretty sure that's not that major of a factor.

[Koop]

BadAssConsoles has said that he's using the revenue from the internal solution to fund the external solution. So if too many people hold off on ordering the internal one to wait for the external one, then the internal one may not get made.

I'm torn. I want the external one so as to preserve my options and not make major changes to my cube, but then it might not get funded...

I just don't want to have an internal mod done- sending my cube to someone to mod- sending it back- it's all a big hassle, had to do it so many times already with my consoles. At the end of the day I just want a 1:1 external replacement for the component cable so that I can easily plug and play- of course assuming an internal mod wouldn't be superior in some way.

If something like that becomes available I will be one of the first in line to buy it.

[Shuco13]

Before I start arguing, I own both a modded Wii + hardmodded GC (+GBP) so I know what I'm talking about. I'd rather prefer talking on an objective level than on a fanboy based one but ok... I don't deny that the Gamecube is the best solution for playing GC/GB games only but it's really questionable if it's really worth it if you can get equal results on other systems without compromising authenticity. Efforts for getting the best setup on GC are not only a matter of money, they also demand a certain skill level (modding) and luck (finding rare equipment).

There's only one thing the Wii will never be able to do and that's playing gameboy games natively.

You can't play Phantasy Star Online natively on the Wii because it only supports the Gamecube Broadband Adapter hardware.
Sadly, there are very few Wii games worth mentioning... And they can all be played on the Wii U anyway.

You might be right about PSO, haven't heard of that before, but other games like Mario Kart Double Dash are definitely playable. Furthermore try to get Project M (high quality smashbros mod) working on the WiiU with Game Cube controller support. It doesn't support the USB-adapter. Oh and you won't find that game on the GC. There's also support for Triforce Arcade video games on Wii which isn't possible on GC.

Sure. Although the component image is better on the GameCube and this has been objectively proven on this board with captures of test patterns.

I know all the comparisons and charts but in the end the differences are as minor as going from sharpness 1 to sharpness 2 on the framemeister. If people here don't care about the rest of their setup, and that's what I'm observing here and what discussions prove, the difference is negligible. If people were that serious about getting the best output from their systems they might very well fund a 1080p HDMI-solution for the GC.

easier softmod

I vastly prefer hardmods.

It's not about personal preference. I was talking about softmodding and that's the only thing that 90% of people are capable of doing. If you're able to hard mod a system I doubt you'll run into a irreversable brick.

better and more homebrew support

Outside of emulators I don't know what Wii-exclusive homebrew is worth using? And all of that works on the Wii U anyway.

It's no secret that the Wii homebrew scene is far bigger than the GC scene that only started to emerge slowly more in the last years. In adition I don't think this discussion was about Gamecube + WiiU vs. Wii so please don't mix things up to your own benefit.

If you want native HDMI just go with the WiiU.

You're in a GameCube thread and suggest a console that can't play GameCube games natively?

Actually I'd suggest it for people who don't own any of those consoles or those who don't bother about retail games. Compatibility is really great for the fact that there's no native support and it's hands down the easiest way to get native HDMI support.

And we're on a site where people spend hundreds of dollars on equipment and cabling to make decades-old games' pixels look slightly better, so I'm pretty sure that's not that major of a factor.

The same kind of people take default settings for granted, use built-in TV speakers and boost contrast, brightness and color on their TVs to an exorbitantly high level "because that's easier on the eyes" and "retrogames are meant to look more colorful" .

[BuckoA51]

Also there are loads of good/interesting Wii games if you bother to look. Maybe not shooters but certainly lots of other genres.

[Unseen]

It's true that you can play GameCube games on a Wii, but it has softer component, and no HDMI option.

Do you think there is a need for an "HDMI option" for the Wii besides the existing Wii-to-HDMI dongles?

From discussions with Unseen he's indicated that higher performance FPGA would be required for upscaling and that he doesn't have the interest in implementing scaling that preserves "non-square" pixel aspect ratios claimed for all 4:3 GCN games.

The Cube's pixels are always non-square, it doesn't matter if the game is configured for 4:3 or 16:9 output. Nintendo chose to design the Cube's video system around standard video timings, so it uses a fixed 13.5MHz pixel clock (originally specified in BT.601 in 1982) for 480i/576i modes and 27MHz for 480p/576p. With this pixel clock and using standard video timings, there is no combination of active video lines and aspect ratio that would result in square pixels.

and the remaining pixels are part of the horizontal blanking period that have been added by the FPGA as visible padding.

Although the Gamecube digital video data encodes these pixels as blanking, they absolutely must be translated to active-but-black video for the digital video output. With analog video, the display generally does not know if a given pixel is black or blanking, so Nintendo could take this shortcut to simplify the configuration of the video processor for games that want to avoid rendering image in the overscan area that would often be invisible. With DVI, blanking and active-but-black pixels are encoded in a different way, so without this translation in GCVideo, the display would see various non-standard resolutions depending on the game. This is a great way to annoy users, because some displays refuse those non-standard resolutions completely. Others may show other oddities, for example I have one that would always zoom the picture to the full panel size and disable the aspect ratio buttion.

There is already a known-good reference signal available from the Gamecube that shows why the black padding is the only correct option: The composite video output does not distinguish between "real" blanking, the increased blanking caused by reduced image dimensions used by a game and black pixels that may be present at the actual image borders. A digital display receiving this signal would always process it in a way that is equivalent to 720 active non-square pixels per line, an analog display (CRT, assuming proper adjustment) would not care about pixels at all and lock its horizontal sweep to the HSync signals, giving the same AR as the GCVideo DVI output with re-blanking for 720 horizontal pixels.

Even the OSD shows a conversion of 640x480 to 720x480!

There is no resolution conversion, the input line is just an indication of the lazyness of the current game's programmers.

This choice is understandable for 480p only, as most HDTVs require the extra pixels for proper input sampling.

Not sure what you are talking about here - sampling is only relevant when you are dealing with analog signals, but GCVideo Lite doesn't touch the blanking area because the difference isn't visible at the output anyway.

Hence, I do not believe the claim that "oh, your TV will do a better job of upscaling" is anything more than shenanigans, and isn't the whole story.

I don't believe your claim "The TV's upscaling sucks, you can implement something better on an FPGA" either.

have you captured any GCN games that actually have more than 640 active pixels?

To pick a random example: Everything on the PAL Zelda collection CD (which I believe only runs in 60Hz anyway) outputs more than 640 active pixels horizontally. The menu is 666x448i, the Wind Waker demo runs in 660x480i, the NES emulators use 660x232p, the N64 emulator uses 704x480i and the movie player is 672x480i. Another well-known game with an "odd" resolution is Mario Kart Double Dash which outputs 666x448.

[BuckoA51]

Do you think there is a need for an "HDMI option" for the Wii besides the existing Wii-to-HDMI dongles?

Personally I would like to see this, something along the lines of GCVideo for the Wii would appeal to me, I can't speak for other folks of course and yes I do have a Wii-U but haven't soft-modded it (didn't want to interfere/have it nerfed by any Wii-U firmware updates for one).

PAL Zelda collection CD (which I believe only runs in 60Hz anyway) outputs more than 640 active pixels horizontally.

That potentially explains why I got weird results running that through the Framemeister (picture was stable but scaling seemed off)

Interesting/insightful post Unseen, thanks.

[Guspaz]

It's true that you can play GameCube games on a Wii, but it has softer component, and no HDMI option.

Do you think there is a need for an "HDMI option" for the Wii besides the existing Wii-to-HDMI dongles?

Not particularly: GameCube games can be output over HDMI using GCVideo, and Wii games can be output over HDMI using a Wii U.

[BuckoA51]

Wii games can be output over HDMI using a Wii U.

Though that's not without its caveats either :- http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digit ... y-analysis

[bobrocks95]

It's true that you can play GameCube games on a Wii, but it has softer component, and no HDMI option.

Do you think there is a need for an "HDMI option" for the Wii besides the existing Wii-to-HDMI dongles?

I would appreciate it since:
-My EDTV doesn't like YCbCr which those all do AFAIK
-The component out of the Wii isn't that great to begin with
-Digital audio is a big plus
-I keep my Wii U in the other room and on a different TV for Wii U games. Playing Wii games on it for me requires moving it to another room, setting its output to 480p to avoid the green push from the Wii U's upscaling, and waiting for the Wii Mode to load, which takes a while as I recall. These aren't great reasons to develop a complex mod, but don't make switching between Wii and Wii U games very fun.

Ultimately of course it comes down to if someone wants to make it for themselves and share it, not some people's opinion on a forum (unless someone started a kickstarter to do the work or something).

[RGB32E]

Although the Gamecube digital video data encodes these pixels as blanking, they absolutely must be translated to active-but-black video for the digital video output. With analog video, the display generally does not know if a given pixel is black or blanking, so Nintendo could take this shortcut to simplify the configuration of the video processor for games that want to avoid rendering image in the overscan area that would often be invisible. With DVI, blanking and active-but-black pixels are encoded in a different way, so without this translation in GCVideo, the display would see various non-standard resolutions depending on the game. This is a great way to annoy users, because some displays refuse those non-standard resolutions completely. Others may show other oddities, for example I have one that would always zoom the picture to the full panel size and disable the aspect ratio buttion.

There is already a known-good reference signal available from the Gamecube that shows why the black padding is the only correct option: The composite video output does not distinguish between "real" blanking, the increased blanking caused by reduced image dimensions used by a game and black pixels that may be present at the actual image borders. A digital display receiving this signal would always process it in a way that is equivalent to 720 active non-square pixels per line, an analog display (CRT, assuming proper adjustment) would not care about pixels at all and lock its horizontal sweep to the HSync signals, giving the same AR as the GCVideo DVI output with re-blanking for 720 horizontal pixels.

Thanks for the reply. For 480p output, yes, I have no doubt you're doing the correct processing.

Even the OSD shows a conversion of 640x480 to 720x480!

There is no resolution conversion, the input line is just an indication of the lazyness of the current game's programmers.

How so? That they were rendering using a ~1.3:1 AR frame buffer instead of a ~1.5:1 AR frame buffer?

Hence, I do not believe the claim that "oh, your TV will do a better job of upscaling" is anything more than shenanigans, and isn't the whole story.

I don't believe your claim "The TV's upscaling sucks, you can implement something better on an FPGA" either.

You should given how well the UltraHDMI does with both square and non-square (>320) pixel resolutions from the N64! Have you personally evaluated the UltraHDMI? I'm not saying all TVs upscaling of 480p sucks, just that it won't result in sharp pixels as found with the other HDMI kits or when upscaling using a XRGB.

Given BuckoA51's sample image here, what should be the expected result on a 1080p display?

A: http://i.imgur.com/ab1Dhmj.jpg
B: http://i.imgur.com/5jRkhVm.jpg

What I'd like to see from a future GCN HDMI solution:
C: http://i.imgur.com/91Wrx9h.jpg // 2x Integer Scale
D: http://i.imgur.com/hYSP2wc.jpg // 2.5x Fractional Scale (gasp!)

[bobrocks95]

If the UltraHDMI dev didn't use vendor-specific functions, he could port just the scaling code over. Again, the project is open-source and can be modified by anyone who wants to do so.

[Unseen]

Thanks for the reply. For 480p output, yes, I have no doubt you're doing the correct processing.

Why do you think that my explanation was 480p specific or that there is a difference between 480p and 480i in this regard?

You should given how well the UltraHDMI does with both square and non-square (>320) pixel resolutions from the N64! :P Have you personally evaluated the UltraHDMI?

It's not available to buy in single quantities for DIY installation and from what I've heard I likely would not buy it even if it was because I don't see a need to spend that much money on an N64.

Given BuckoA51's sample image here, what should be the expected result on a 1080p display?

Boot the actual game, connect the composite video output to a TV (configured to display the signal as 4:3) and measure the aspect ratio of some of the graphic elements yourself. Or do you want to claim that the "default" video output of the Cube (used by most normal people) has the wrong aspect ratio?

A: http://i.imgur.com/ab1Dhmj.jpg
B: http://i.imgur.com/5jRkhVm.jpg

Given that source image I suspect that neither of these is the correct answer. If you assume that the image is anamorphic 16:9 and scale it to 1920x1080, the pilot's icons on the left look pretty much like circles.

What I'd like to see from a future GCN HDMI solution:
C: http://i.imgur.com/91Wrx9h.jpg // 2x Integer Scale
D: http://i.imgur.com/hYSP2wc.jpg // 2.5x Fractional Scale (gasp!) :)

Yuck - both look exceedingly horrible to me. Feel free to implement something yourself, but be aware that you'll need a different hardware platform for 1080p60 output.

[BuckoA51]

Yuck - both look exceedingly horrible to me.

Yeah this obsession with razor sharp integer scaling is getting a bit much. To me C looks okay but kind of over sharpened. I can see why some folks might like it. Then again I'm not a fan of the sharp pixels mode on the N64 HDMI mod either. No CRT I've ever seen had that kind of sharpness, but each to their own.

[darcagn]

Before I start arguing, I own both a modded Wii + hardmodded GC (+GBP) so I know what I'm talking about. I'd rather prefer talking on an objective level than on a fanboy based one but ok...

There is no "absolute truth" to which is "better." There are only preferences. You care about things that I don't care about and vice versa. I'm not here to convince you that the GameCube is better than the Wii. I am simply saying that I prefer the GameCube and plenty of other people do too, which is why there is excitement about the mod this topic is about, and also why the GameCube component cables are extremely expensive in the first place, and they continue to rise.

You might be right about PSO, haven't heard of that before, but other games like Mario Kart Double Dash are definitely playable. Furthermore try to get Project M (high quality smashbros mod) working on the WiiU with Game Cube controller support. It doesn't support the USB-adapter. Oh and you won't find that game on the GC. There's also support for Triforce Arcade video games on Wii which isn't possible on GC.

You say it's definitely playable, I don't know because I haven't tried it myself, but doing a search shows a lot of people saying LAN mode doesn't work on the Wii...
You got me on Project M, I forgot about that one, and I didn't know anything about arcade games on Wii.

It's not about personal preference. I was talking about softmodding and that's the only thing that 90% of people are capable of doing. If you're able to hard mod a system I doubt you'll run into a irreversable brick.

Yeah, actually, it is about personal preference: I don't care about softmodding, so claiming the Wii is better because it can be softmodded means nothing to me. Remember, the reason this thread got derailed onto this discussion in the first place is because people brought up whether or not people preferred the GameCube over the Wii...
And actually, my Wii is in an irreversible brick state right now, I am pretty sure it's a bad NAND though, but I haven't really bothered to fuck with it because the NAND backup is somewhere on a flash drive that is probably long gone by now. It had been having issues loading up for a while before it finally always gave up and always boots to a black screen no matter what.

It's no secret that the Wii homebrew scene is far bigger than the GC scene that only started to emerge slowly more in the last years. In adition I don't think this discussion was about Gamecube + WiiU vs. Wii so please don't mix things up to your own benefit.

I don't think this discussion was about anything other about GameCube until other people brought up the Wii? This is about a high quality output solution not dependent on a proprietary chip finally coming to fruition on the GameCube and then you had to come in here saying that you are upset (your words, not mine) about people "bashing the Wii" (which was actually just bobrocks95 and Guspaz saying they prefer the simplicity of the GameCube). Some people prefer the GameCube over the Wii, and don't value the advantages the Wii has over the GameCube, get over it.

[Guspaz]

A point of clarification, I don't prefer the GameCube due to simplicity, but because the only thing I use the GameCube for is the Game Boy Player, which the Wii doesn't support.

The confusion may come from my preferred method of loading GBI on the GameCube (a mod chip and burnt disc), which I believe to be one of the simplest options (press power, gameboy game boots).

[RGB32E]

Why do you think that my explanation was 480p specific or that there is a difference between 480p and 480i in this regard?

Nope!

It's not available to buy in single quantities for DIY installation and from what I've heard I likely would not buy it even if it was because I don't see a need to spend that much money on an N64.

That's too bad. I realize there are quite a few people who have an aversion to the N64, but the UltraHDMI demonstrates "better than TV" upscaling for those who are looking for distinct pixels.

Or do you want to claim that the "default" video output of the Cube (used by most normal people) has the wrong aspect ratio?

Never made that claim. I'm just trying to understand the specific challenges with upscaling GCN output and why you believe that scaling on a given TV is best.

Given that source image I suspect that neither of these is the correct answer. If you assume that the image is anamorphic 16:9 and scale it to 1920x1080, the pilot's icons on the left look pretty much like circles.

I'm guessing that the capture was with widescreen enabled then?

Feel free to implement something yourself, but be aware that you'll need a different hardware platform for 1080p60 output.

Of course!

One more mockup...
E: http://i.imgur.com/qELNSCa.jpg

[bobrocks95]

So, anyway...

Bucko, will you be selling the Gamecube board separately as a DIY option, or just the installation services like with the UltraHDMI?

[BONKERS]

No kidding! Bucko won't acknowledge this point and makes more excuses.

You make it sound like I'm actively standing in the way of someone developing a full upscaling 1080p GCVideo board If someone did develop such a thing I would of course be completely behind it and support it any way I could.

but to claim that 480p output is "good enough" for those wanting to connect to a 1080p or 2160p display is just shenanigans!

I don't think so, I doubt most people would pay 2 or 3 times more for a board that did 1080p when the 480p upscaling on most sets is pretty good as it is anyway. Of course us perfectionists on here are not most people

No one was describing that scenario. However, you're using FUD when you characterize all upscalers as having a "ton" of input lag.

Well I'd personally take a frame less input lag over a slightly sharper picture if I had to choose, but that's just me.

Here's what 480p Scaling looks like on some 4k sets.
http://i.rtings.com/images/reviews/d-se ... -large.jpg
http://i.rtings.com/images/reviews/js85 ... -large.jpg
http://i.rtings.com/images/reviews/x930 ... -large.jpg
http://i.rtings.com/images/reviews/eg96 ... -large.jpg
http://i.rtings.com/images/reviews/x850 ... -large.jpg

Yuck - both look exceedingly horrible to me.

Yeah this obsession with razor sharp integer scaling is getting a bit much. To me C looks okay but kind of over sharpened. I can see why some folks might like it. Then again I'm not a fan of the sharp pixels mode on the N64 HDMI mod either. No CRT I've ever seen had that kind of sharpness, but each to their own.

Option C is not at ALL oversharpened though.

It's a simple line double without removing anything intentionally there unlike the N64HDMI mod that has the option to disable the VI Blur.

It's absolutely a viable and option that should exist.

People KEEP saying that TV's do scaling just fine at 480p. Maybe 1080p TVs , but 4k TVs definitely DO NOT. They are all trying to do some hybrid interpolation and reconstruction of the signal similar to upscaling used with MadVR for HTPC.

The problem is that this isn't real life filmed or animated content trying to be reconstructed.


http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/167413
640x480 with AA line doubled vs good upscaling comparable
http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/167414
640x480 without AA line doubled vs the same good upscaling as above

And this is just with 2x2 upscaling. 480p to 4k is 4.5x. I can only imagine low res with the kind of Upsampling these TVs are trying to achieve will look that much worse.

[BuckoA51]

Option C is not at ALL oversharpened though.

Doesn't look much like it did on CRT though.

Here's what 480p Scaling looks like on some 4k sets.

Ok, yeah I'd certainly prefer it to that

Bucko, will you be selling the Gamecube board separately as a DIY option, or just the installation services like with the UltraHDMI?

I do sell the UltraHDMI as DIY too, I just can't get stock of any for anything right now, sill waiting on February's batch

As for the Gamecube HDMI, I'm not sure yet if DIY boards will be available through us or direct from http://danielkraak.com/ but DIY boards will be available.

[BONKERS]

Option C is not at ALL oversharpened though.

Doesn't look much like it did on CRT though.

Well yes, but that's because of a fundamental difference in display technology and resolution mostly. But the image is still sharp if properly set and VERY pixellated.
I've spent the last week playing 480i 3D rendered games on the OG Xbox with an 8 year old relative on a CRT in 480i Component. And it most definitely does look very pixellated with most edges completely visibly defined.

It certainly didn't look blurry and ill defined.

With 15khz standards too, that's only 480i, which means tons of flickering and other artifacts from interlacing.

[meneerbeer]

As for the Gamecube HDMI, I'm not sure yet if DIY boards will be available through us or direct from http://danielkraak.com/ but DIY boards will be available.

I will most likely sell some through gc-forever. I just put my website on the PCB, so people can eventually contact me 10 years later if they are puzzled by the mod inside their Cube.

[lev11]

@bobrocks95 I was able to install one of the earlier versions of meneerbeer's boards and it's a much tidier fit than the pluto, well worth waiting for: http://imgur.com/HnjxlQX
The ribbon cable then wraps to above the drive cage where the main board can be screwed down under the disk drive. I think it's a great design solution.