Cloning the Gamecube component cable

[Unseen]

I was thinking on 480i linedouble the flickering would be for example the bottom of a white square on black background is supposed to finish on line 33. It was doubled to line 33 and 34 for 20ms, but then the next field had the bottom of the square on 32, so was doubled to 32 and 33 for 20ms. The flicker being the bottom edge of the white square reappearing on line 34 every 20ms.

Yes, that is what's happening..

Wouldn't non-alternating scanlines dismiss half the data, and reduce the refresh rate to 30hz?

If it was a proper deinterlacer that would be true, but since a linedoubler just outputs the same line twice you'd still see the pixel from all fields, although not always in the same vertical position that it would have on a 480i display. The net effect would be similar to a 480i to 240p-"conversion" with an Extron sync processor.

[lev11]

My 1080p TV handled the strong scanlines really badly, so possibly the demand for non-alternating scanlines could come once more different set-ups test it. I suppose that would be a useful other option to try for PAL users mainly. Either those without means of forcing 480p, or sometimes too lazy to swop disks, like me, we are spoilt these days. And would it benefit PAL Gameboy player use without needing for force 240p with Swiss?

Is it possible to send audio via the HDMI lead? Selfish request really, I know you were going to do SPDIF but my AV amp is gone so I'm back to analogue, TV audio or headphones.

[RGB32E]

Has the new PCB design been submitted for fabrication and tested yet? After reading the following, I'd prefer to hold off from ordering the existing design shared on OSH Park.

The pads of the two ICs (from KiCADs standard footprint library) are meant for reflow soldering, not hand soldering. It is still possdo not need to use ible to hand-solder these chips, but it takes a lot of patience.

[lev11]

The scanline problem on the 1080p set was down to the TV setting, 'true cinema' mode, changed it to 'game' mode and now all is well, fantastic in-fact.

Had more time to play with it now, and native 480p content is a winner, but PAL 480i with scanlines is certainly good enough (for me at least) to not want to faff about with another disk and force 480p via swiss. Some games work better at different settings though, so the OSD would be a welcome addition.

Did a few more images showing Super Mario Land via Gameboy Player. While in still frame the 480i(p) with scanlines looks good, there's a few jaggy edges on the vertical edges on motion.

http://imgur.com/gallery/sEqW9/

Let the imgur downvoting commence

[Josh128]

lev11, any way you can post some in game pictures of GC games with your pick of the best setting on the 1080p set? I'd love to see it.

[nosorrow]

I'm currently using a first model GameCube hooked to a Sony Wega CRT via composite. Since I use a tube TV, would I notice any difference with a component cable? (Anywhere other than ebay where you can get them?)

Also, is there any noticeable downside to using generic Wii component cables instead of Nintendo brand cables? Thanks to anyone who can answer.

[CkRtech]

Since I use a tube TV, would I notice any difference with a component cable?

Yes, however S-Video would most likely provide a noticeable improvement for a heck of a lot less money.

Also, is there any noticeable downside to using generic Wii component cables instead of Nintendo brand cables? Thanks to anyone who can answer.

I think my Wii component cables might be third party...reason being is that Skyward Sword would sometimes have noticeable distortion at the top of the screen during bright flying sequences. I use the Wii U now, so that problem somewhat resolved itself. Others may have more input on this.

[Josh128]

I'm currently using a first model GameCube hooked to a Sony Wega CRT via composite. Since I use a tube TV, would I notice any difference with a component cable? (Anywhere other than ebay where you can get them?)

Also, is there any noticeable downside to using generic Wii component cables instead of Nintendo brand cables? Thanks to anyone who can answer.

You will notice a difference using component, it will eliminate the dot crawl artifacts of the composite cable and colors will look much richer / fuller-- that said, like CKRtech mentioned, if you are on an SD CRT the $120+ cables are a complete waste of cash-- an S Video cable can be bought for under $10 and will give you a picture that is much better than composite and almost as good as component.

Where the component cables SHINE is when you have a 480p/1080i HD CRT or a Samsung PNxxF4500 720p plasma. If you want the absolute best picture from your GC, component cables and one of those types of sets are needed. If you dont have an HD or EDTV, your GC wont be able to use 480p resolution.

As far as the Wii cables, yes, there is a noticeable difference from many of the cheap cables to the official Nintendo or quality aftermarket (I like the Rocketfish ones) cables. The difference is usually visible noise/creeping lines/creeping artifacts, most visible on plasma or LCD HDTVs. Get a Rocketfish or get a Nintendo cable.

[nosorrow]

Will get the official Wii ones, thanks (crap, they aren't $30 on Amazon like they were last I checked around November...).

So on an SD set, the GCN component cables will give results equal to S video, correct?

[BazookaBen]

I have the Monster brand component cables for Wii and they work great. They're probably the sturdiest cables you can get too

So on an SD set, the GCN component cables will give results equal to S video, correct?

Marginally better. S-video still looks fantastic.

[Josh128]

^^

Agree. On an SDTV, the component cables are slightly better than SVideo, but not by much. Clarity /sharpness will be about the same, colors will be a bit richer. Def not even $20 worth of improvement, much less $100. I have both. I may post some photo comparisons in the future, but your choice should be clear.

On a capable ED or HD set though, they are definitely worth the difference.

[Josh128]

lol, just picked up a silver digital out GC with power supply, official 251 block mem card, and Zelda :TP (disc only) for THREE dollars at a Christian mission garage sale this morning!!

Looks like I'll be trying out this SVideo vs. Component thing sooner than I'd planned...

[nosorrow]

If you can manage to test component and s video on the same SD CRT, I'd love to read your hands-on impressions!

[Josh128]

Actually-- I just hooked up my new $3 GC and connected composite, SVideo, and Component all at once to my Sony Trinitron Wega-- and have the capability to switch inputs while showing the exact same screen!

This should make for some fantastic comparison photos. The wifes cooking a turkey and my parents are coming over for supper, I may not be able to do the test till tomorrow.

Any games in particular you would like to see compared? I have the Zelda: TP disc that came with my Cube in right now. Im up for requests!

PS: If anyone thinks I should post the photo comparisons in a different thread, please let me know. Although related, not exactly sure it belongs here. Perhaps the Trinitron Wega thread or a new one dedicated to the comparison?

[nosorrow]

If at all possible (i.e. you have the games and moderators allow it), I'd be curious to see composite vs. component comparisons on your sd crt for F-Zero GX, Super Mario Strikers (the game is horribly muddy, dark, unfocused on my tube tv - very fun though, and I hate soccer in general, haha), Double Dash, Billy Hatcher, Melee, Wario Ware, etc. But anything goes, really.

Also, is there an impact on Game Boy Player image quality? Comparison shots of the three Castlevania games would be great also (take your time!).

[lev11]

@Josh128, yes I will get some pics, but its the front room TV so I have to time my interventions right. Its a Panasonic TXL47ET5B not sure its got any pedigree for gaming. Good find on the 3$ silver GC, with the Zelda disk its an even bigger bargain than the Samsung plasma

[Josh128]

...

[Einzelherz]

I'm currently using a first model GameCube hooked to a Sony Wega CRT via composite. Since I use a tube TV, would I notice any difference with a component cable? (Anywhere other than ebay where you can get them?)

Also, is there any noticeable downside to using generic Wii component cables instead of Nintendo brand cables? Thanks to anyone who can answer.

You will notice a difference using component, it will eliminate the dot crawl artifacts of the composite cable and colors will look much richer / fuller-- that said, like CKRtech mentioned, if you are on an SD CRT the $120+ cables are a complete waste of cash-- an S Video cable can be bought for under $10 and will give you a picture that is much better than composite and almost as good as component.

Where the component cables SHINE is when you have a 480p/1080i HD CRT or a Samsung PNxxF4500 720p plasma. If you want the absolute best picture from your GC, component cables and one of those types of sets are needed. If you dont have an HD or EDTV, your GC wont be able to use 480p resolution.

As far as the Wii cables, yes, there is a noticeable difference from many of the cheap cables to the official Nintendo or quality aftermarket (I like the Rocketfish ones) cables. The difference is usually visible noise/creeping lines/creeping artifacts, most visible on plasma or LCD HDTVs. Get a Rocketfish or get a Nintendo cable.

There are several aftermarket Wii component cables that are all good. Essentially, if they have a recognizable brand name attached, you're clear to get them. Rocketfish, Monster, Energizer, Nintendo, etc.

Now on a CRT, an S-Video cable will do 90% of the work a component will and in the GameCube's situation, this makes it an obvious choice. Even the cheapo 3rd party ones work great (I have the sexy monster S-Video and have compared it to a $5 ebay one with poor quality connectors and they looked indistinguishable).

[lev11]

I took some build photos whilst in the process of doing this mod, hope it helps others.

Album here: http://imgur.com/gallery/zFmrb/

[Unseen]

I took some build photos whilst in the process of doing this mod, hope it helps others.

Thanks for confirming that it actually fits, I only tried it with a paper cutout until now. =)

On your photos it looks like the white "serial" connector on the FPGA board is the only thing that blocked the installation with the HDMI port lined up with the original back panel opening - why didn't you just desolder it? It could either be reconnected on the back (facing inwards) or via a few wires for future reprogramming.

[Josh128]

Nice job with the installation! Im still a bit confused as to the whole process, beginning with obtaining and programming the FPGA board. Why isnt whoever is selling them programming them prior to shipping? Are there plans to do so in the future?

Also, it seems to me that the scanlines and linedoubling functions arent really that necessary-- would the board function with no DIP switches wired outside the unit?

Im very interested in possibly doing this myself-- but it seems pretty complicated. How would you rate it in terms of difficulty compared with a NESRGB install?

Looking forward to seeing more pics!

[bobrocks95]

Nice job with the installation! Im still a bit confused as to the whole process, beginning with obtaining and programming the FPGA board. Why isnt whoever is selling them programming them prior to shipping? Are there plans to do so in the future?

It's not being sold by any member, but the company actually making the FPGA board. I forget if they offer flashing services but I'd guess not?

Also, it seems to me that the scanlines and linedoubling functions arent really that necessary-- would the board function with no DIP switches wired outside the unit?

Yeah, check the readme on github. You should be able to solder some points to ground instead of soldering a DIP switch to them.

Im very interested in possibly doing this myself-- but it seems pretty complicated. How would you rate it in terms of difficulty compared with a NESRGB install?

If you don't remove the digital connector it's probably not that much harder. The difficulty would be that it's finer pitch soldering compared to the NESRGB stuff, and all the pins for the connector are tightly packed too. And needing to use ChipQuik if you remove the connector (necessary if you want the FPGA board to fit inside).

[lev11]

@Unseen yes it could be removed, but I wanted to get the jumper wiring outside, and don't mind trimming the case.

@bobrocks95 I didn't ask about KNJN flashing, but it is very simple via serial, and only about £6 for the port, you do need a 5v power source though it can be flashed once in the gamecubes power.

@Josh128 yeah you don't need the DIPs, especially with a NTSC cube and native progressive scan, but for PAL and 480i it offers a great improvement. Now I've played with it it's probably only adjusting the scanline level or off, I don't really adjust the other DIPs. I've not looked at the NESRGB mod. The existing connector can probably be cut off instead if that's easier, the pins are on the underside, I don't think you could solder to them and route the wires to the top of the board where the FPGA would fit.

[Josh128]

Another question-- on NTSC GC's, some games default to 480i if the "B" button is not held during bootup. Others sense the component is connected to a 480p capable display and ask if you want to go to 480p after bootup.

Question is-- do you have to hard configure the FPGA for one or the other, or use a dip switch....or is there a way to wire it that would allow the game to choose-- say if you chose 480i instead of 480p in the game boot screen when given the choice and vice versa.

Also, do you think it would be possible to do an external install of the board, in its own box , and leave the digital connector intact? Are the solder points accessible at all if you dont remove it?

My idea is to run a small ribbon/parallel cable or similar outside the cube to a male/female connector pair of some sort that can be connected and disconnected from the FPGA box.

[Unseen]

Another question-- on NTSC GC's, some games default to 480i if the "B" button is not held during bootup. Others sense the component is connected to a 480p capable display and ask if you want to go to 480p after bootup.

Question is-- do you have to hard configure the FPGA for one or the other, or use a dip switch....or is there a way to wire it that would allow the game to choose-- say if you chose 480i instead of 480p in the game boot screen when given the choice and vice versa.

I'm not sure if I even understand your question? The FPGA just converts the video data that is coming from the Gamecube, it has (almost) no influence on the video mode chosen by the game. The only thing it can do is to enable or disable the "component cable present"-pin, which in turn enables the "Do you want 480p"-prompt in the game. In the current release you don't even get a choice, it's hard-wired to signal "cable is present".

Also, do you think it would be possible to do an external install of the board, in its own box , and leave the digital connector intact? Are the solder points accessible at all if you dont remove it?

Yes, with the usual caveat: Keep the wires short!

[bobrocks95]

Another question-- on NTSC GC's, some games default to 480i if the "B" button is not held during bootup. Others sense the component is connected to a 480p capable display and ask if you want to go to 480p after bootup.

Question is-- do you have to hard configure the FPGA for one or the other, or use a dip switch....or is there a way to wire it that would allow the game to choose-- say if you chose 480i instead of 480p in the game boot screen when given the choice and vice versa.

Also, do you think it would be possible to do an external install of the board, in its own box , and leave the digital connector intact? Are the solder points accessible at all if you dont remove it?

My idea is to run a small ribbon/parallel cable or similar outside the cube to a male/female connector pair of some sort that can be connected and disconnected from the FPGA box.

The FPGA is currently set so the Gamecube will always think there's a component cable connected, which only causes problems with certain homebrew always booting in 480p regardless of your display (Swiss used to do this, it was fixed recently I believe). This is normal operation. The game will detect a component cable, and if you've held the B button down at any point before (only ever has to be done once) it will ask if you want 480i or 480p.

Digital connector can be left on, the pins are accessible from its bottom. I was originally going to do the same thing as you, but the internal looks much nicer now that I've seen an example. Well, without all the DIP switches at least.

EDIT: Missed the usual notification saying somebody replied before me, huh...

[CkRtech]

Also, do you think it would be possible to do an external install of the board, in its own box , and leave the digital connector intact? Are the solder points accessible at all if you dont remove it?

Yes, with the usual caveat: Keep the wires short!

You know what would be slick is if we had a GameCube-like snap-in that basically snapped into the back of the digital port similar to the way the modem and GBP snap into the bottom of the GC. It would essentially be a little box that has a mold similar to the back port panel and beyond (if necessary for space) and has the digital AV plug mounted directly to it with PCB inside. That would mean no wires at all - at least for communication with the Digital AV port.

[bobrocks95]

You know what would be slick is if we had a GameCube-like snap-in that basically snapped into the back of the digital port similar to the way the modem and GBP snap into the bottom of the GC. It would essentially be a little box that has a mold similar to the back port panel and beyond (if necessary for space) and has the digital AV plug mounted directly to it with PCB inside. That would mean no wires at all - at least for communication with the Digital AV port.

There's been a lot of talk from people about getting digital port connectors made for a long time, but nothing has ever materialized. At this point if you can figure it out you'll probably become a legend haha.

[lev11]

Here are some pics from the 1080p set, unfortunately the shots still suffer from poor camera:

http://imgur.com/gallery/4KRbb/

[bobrocks95]

Here are some pics from the 1080p set, unfortunately the shots still suffer from poor camera:

http://imgur.com/gallery/4KRbb/

Those Imgur comments always crack me up.