Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[Obscura]

(you can tell if you're seeing PAL Alien Soldier by the absence of the famous "68000 Heart On Fire" line on the title screen)

Sure enough, it's PAL.

Was there not an American version for 60Hz + "English"?

[BIL]

Nope, game was PAL-exclusive in the west. One of those odd cases - Terranigma on SNES is another. SFC Parodius Da! was released in PAL too, with the "Uncle Sam" Eagles censored into parrots for some reason.

Fascinating, albeit dubious, seam of gaming history imo. Growing up in NTSCJland but having relatives in PALfordshire, I'd come home from visits with tales of all sorts of weird shit I'd seen, and grindingly slow downtuned Sanics. They had a hard time BITD. 3: PAL CV Bloodlines ("The New Generation") seriously makes me a bit seasick, buhhh.

[WelshMegalodon]

Fascinating dissection of R's game mechanics, __SKYe.

It's also nice to see video game adaptations of licensed material that is actually fun to play, rather than some generic unplayable mess.

Digimon World PS1 is actually pretty interesting... and predates the anime.

There's also a charge attack (by holding the attack button until a little bar on top ot the health meter charges up), which is a small projectile. I don't give it much use, but it's a nice touch.

The projectile attacks are fun to fire off at enemies who hug the sides of the screen, but it's true that you could remove them without much affecting the game. I like that they included Rolling Heart Vibration, though.

Yet another similarity with Final Fight, is that after taking some damage, the first boss will hind back and call for reinforcements, just like Damnd (aka Trasher) from Final Fight.

On that note, Esmeraude can be defeated in one cycle, just like Trasher, albeit via a throw loop rather than an infinite combo. The Ryuuko MD fan in me found this quite amusing.


Now, a few questions from this belt scroller novice:
- Have you been able to figure out a consistent input for the piledriver? Jump + Attack while holding an enemy only causes your character to jump. (EDIT: Turns out I had to jump while holding an enemy, then press the A button. Silly me.)
- How do you deal with the swarms of rolling enemies in Stage 3? (I believe the official guidebook calls them "Heavy Shades".) Is it consistently possible to knock them out of their rolls?

imho, it would be wonderful to have a sub-forum on here specifically for all sorts of non-shmup, classic genre games. i feel like jamming this thread in "off topic" is a bit weird, and i hate seeing stupid political threads or w/e while i'm browsing, looking to just talk about games. would anyone else want to get behind this? just below off-topic, a "non-shmup, ruff n' tumble fun game" forum? shumps dot com is three thousand years old and i'm afraid of stepping on toes just bringing this up, but damn it, there's enough enthusiasts on here, for sure.

In addition to the Mega Drive and general sidescrolling threads, we also have dedicated topics for Super Famicom, PC Engine, and PS1 titles, which is enough room for non-shmup discussion if you ask me. I wouldn't mind them being stickied, though.

as someone who has yet to find it within themselves to think of the first final fight (the only i've played) as anything more than some eye candy, and mostly a quarter-sucking vacuum (1cc's of final fight look JARRINGLY tedious and boring, at least to me), would you recommend this?

You only ever hear belt scrollers labeled this way by people with no interest in 1ccs, so I'm surprised to hear this from a player of your caliber.

And yes, the two Super Famicom titles feature two-player simultaneous play. Only Rei and Makoto are worth using in the first game, though.

[kitten]

Other than a pause menu letting you chop the speed by 25% increments, and the typical "enemies do less damage, you do more" (which frees up ammo), it seems fairly subtle. I gave SE my first playthrough in living memory, and all that really stood out were:

i) helpful platforms in Act II's watery areas
ii) er... that's about it rofl

Also, you get a password on Game Over. I could see this being extremely useful for learners, but since SH is technically the "default," I just went with that.

i feel a bit less bad about having finished on supereasy, now! i would have never abused that slowdown thing. i thought that supereasy paused when you selected weapons, but it apparently doesn't, which goes to show how incredibly faulty my memory is, here. i'm sure i continued a shitzillion times, though. in particular, i remember hating the hell out of one boss. i think you were underwater and moving in a vortex...?

STILL not geared up for a serious play, just booted the virtual console to refresh myself a tad for the discussion. i very much want to keep this as something nice for myself years down the line. i died goddamn immediately on the fucking snake thing right at the start while shooting with an empty magazine at it like a dope the controls to this are extremely alien to me, right now, and the way that thing moved and jerked around was like a hypnosis was cast on my brain. treasure games are notorious about their egregious overuses of weird, frenetic movement in their giant, segmented bosses, and i just don't understand what on goddamn earth they're doing or how i'm supposed to react in first instances. i feel like - even continuing like a fiend - i had to have been at least very mildly proficient at it on my decade-old initial clear (i distinctly remember a transition from "i hate this and it is awkward" to "i am having fun"), but i played as if i'd never touched a video game before, just now.

to clarify, i did seriously only play about 5 minutes

Understood, and understood. I like to think of Wu as that one soldier in the war movie who dies at his stationary gun, then drifts about in the wind spraying everyone present. I wish I could remember the exact film, would make a crackin' GIF.

"useless" was honestly much too generous a description on my end, she is worse than that but yes, moving on.

From what I understand, the PAL version was optimised for 50hz, so it'll run too quickly on NTSC machines, and in emulators set to 60hz. On a PAL system/50hz emulation, it apparently runs a tick slower than the NTSCJ original. That's what I've always heard, anyway. At least one other game is the same way, Thunder Force IV. (you can tell if you're seeing PAL Alien Soldier by the absence of the famous "68000 Heart On Fire" line on the title screen)

I'd guess Steam's emulator of choice does something that results in you getting the authentic PAL speed. And yeah, with how little text this game has (even the Japan version's intro has Engrish subtitles), they'd have been better off just going with the JP ROM.

THE YEAR IS 2015

wow, i cannot believe alien soldier happened two years ago, now! i fucking missed it, too!

anyway, the US version actually misses the 68000 heart on fire quote, as well. that's the ROM that the virtual console uses, too. that was the... seganet or whatever the hell it was version. also, holy shit, one of the demo play footages actually shows the player crouching to the music. amazing.

In addition to the Mega Drive and general sidescrolling threads, we also have dedicated topics for Super Famicom, PC Engine, and PS1 titles, which is enough room for non-shmup discussion if you ask me. I wouldn't mind them being stickied, though.

that would be quite nice!

You only ever hear belt scrollers labeled this way by people with no interest in 1ccs, so I'm surprised to hear this from a player of your caliber.

And yes, the two Super Famicom titles feature two-player simultaneous play. Only Rei and Makoto are worth using in the first game, though.

not the first time i've been told that someone finds my commentary on beat 'em ups to be seemingly out of character. my warm-up to belt scrolling beat 'em ups has been very slow! there are a couple i like (bare knuckle 2 is actually a bona fide 4/4 star game, to me), but i think my problems usually come from how repetitive play ends up being. so many bosses in these types of games end up being hyper-aggressive, extremely powerful, and with little way to get past them other than what feels like - i don't know how else to describe this, so forgive me - cheesing them. i'm at very best only decent at bare knuckle, but i feel like when i die, it is fair. i didn't properly zone enemies, got greedy, or didn't react with proper timing to a tell. there are a few moments here and there where i feel like a hit or two are unfair, but the game does have a life bar and i can use it as a learning opportunity to not fuck up the 2nd time.

in more standard fare belt scrolling beu's (like most SNK stuff they were banging out to sell cabinets as fast as possible or popular licensed games such as x-men, simpsons, tmnt), i feel like i'm just abusing the one blindspot in an aggressive AI over and over again, and i often feel like that blindspot is cruel and unintuitive. been a while since i played final fight and what i played was on the VC via the shit snes version, but it felt quite a bit like that, to me. if anyone wants to make an impassioned case on why i'm a scrub and the game is dope, i will take my lickings, but i just couldn't have fun with it. i've heard the series gets much better as it goes on, but final fight tough ain't a cheap game.

also, do you happen to have the kana for the sfc sailor moon titles handy so i can plug 'em into a YAJ search?


edit:

something i wanted to emphasize: when i say a game is 4/4 stars, i mean it is at absolute minimum notably great, most likely excellent. i use a site to keep track of my game ratings and (minuature, sentence-or-two to a paragraph or so) reviews, and i have about half of my collection rated. to put it numerically:

101 - 4.9%
232 - 11.3%
336 - 16.3%
351 - 17.1%

that's from 4/4 to 1/4, descending. left is the number of games with respective rating, right is percentage of collection rated that way (no rating comprises 50.4%). the number is -slightly- larger than it should be, since compilations inflate my collection to look bigger than it is. 263 games are either part of a compilation, browser games, or burned copies (only about a dozen are burned copies, and are all pce games)

[WelshMegalodon]

It's "美少女戦士セーラームーン" and "美少女戦士セーラームーンR" for the first and second Super Famicom games, respectively.

[kitten]

It's "美少女戦士セーラームーン" and "美少女戦士セーラームーンR" for the first and second Super Famicom games, respectively.

thanks!

hoo-wee, the first one is cheaper than dirt and the second is pretty affordable, too :U

http://page5.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/e216667455

familiar with the other three games in the bundle? anything worth getting? they're probably not even worth that starting bid price, but maybe they are...

[Vanguard]

And if a game isn't fun when you're "bumbling around on the floor", it's shit. Don't get caught up on degrees -- being "good" at a thing is fun in itself, regardless of what the thing is (it makes your brain release the good chemicals). Saying that Alien Soldier is fun when you've been playing it for 30 hours isn't a judgement of the game -- it's a judgement of "performing well at almost anything is fun, no matter what that something is".

Some mechanics take time and practice before you understand them well enough to engage with them on a basic level. That might be a flaw, but it is absurd to say that a game that is bad for the first few hours and good indefinitely afterwards is overall bad.

Your claim that anything is fun when you're good at is absolutely false. You don't think there's anyone who is good at their job and finds no joy in it? You've never lost interest in a game because you got too good at it to be challenged? I personally found Holy Diver to be immensely enjoyable while learning to 1cc it, but found it unpleasant while working on my 1lc, even though my skill level was much higher at that point. If it were really true that anything is fun when you're good at it, and that a key trait of all good games is that they must be enjoyable from the first moment of your first credit, then the inevitable conclusion is that games should be shallow and easily-mastered and put most of their effort into making good early impressions. This is exactly the sort of mindset that has put modern gaming into the bad state it's in.

I actually agree with you in that the appeal to subjectivity is a huge cop-out, though.

[WelshMegalodon]

familiar with the other three games in the bundle? anything worth getting? they're probably not even worth that starting bid price, but maybe they are...

A bit of Googling reveals two of those to be Sailor Moon puzzle games and the third to be a crossover puzzle game featuring characters from Nakayoshi. Can't say I've played any of them.

[kitten]

thank you again! those sound like passes, hrm

[FinalBaton]

Nope, game was PAL-exclusive in the west. One of those odd cases - Terranigma on SNES is another. SFC Parodius Da! was released in PAL too, with the "Uncle Sam" Eagles censored into parrots for some reason.

Fascinating, albeit dubious, seam of gaming history imo. Growing up in NTSCJland but having relatives in PALfordshire, I'd come home from visits with tales of all sorts of weird shit I'd seen, and grindingly slow downtuned Sanics. They had a hard time BITD. 3: PAL CV Bloodlines ("The New Generation") seriously makes me a bit seasick, buhhh.

BIL, been meaning to ask : what nationality are ya? are you a japanese modern-day samuraï, living as an hermit and training to hone his sword skills every day? or an american soldier stationed in Japan, to keep 'em japs in check? or an English trooper stationed there, shedding blood for the glory of Commonwealth?

I need a bit of backstory here Or, should I say : "STAGE 0 : Prologue of BIRRRU"

////////////////////////////////

[kitten]

oh god i was just consulting my notes and ranger x's highest difficulty is apparently "heavy" and not "rough" i am a liar and fraud.

i think what i played with the highest difficulty as "rough" was something else, and have the notion it was recent. god, fuck me, i'm never going to remember

[Squire Grooktook]

I actually agree with you in that the appeal to subjectivity is a huge cop-out, though.

I deleted a post I made here earlier because I don't want to risk opening up another can of worms, but I'll just say that it's not a cop out: It's genuinely what I believe and I've had numerous arguments with Skykid here over just what kind of intrinsic value entertainment is capable of possessing. I'll leave it at that.

I need a bit of backstory here Or, should I say : "STAGE 0 : Prologue of BIRRRU"

Spoiler

////////////////////////////////

I am half tempted to throw together a quickie title screen/stage start text based on this using the title screen effect/animation I've been building lately.

[FinalBaton]

I am half tempted to throw together a quickie title screen/stage start text based on this using the title screen effect/animation I've been building lately.

Do eet Squire!

[Obscura]

Your claim that anything is fun when you're good at is absolutely false. You don't think there's anyone who is good at their job and finds no joy in it?

I've never heard of that happening. Of course, I've never heard of anyone being "good" at their job beyond a fresh college grad in their first couple years in an entry position. Once they've been there a year or two and get promoted out of their "Junior [field]" job title, the rest of their working lives will be an endless parade of failing to meet schedules and budgets while getting bitched at by empty authority figures, figures who keep promoting them anyways because, hey, someone needs to take over for the people that are retiring, and it's not like anyone is doing a good job. They'll enjoy their job so much that they'll swing by the liquor store on the way home from work and then get so blitzed that they forget about their humanity.

You've never lost interest in a game because you got too good at it to be challenged?

Nope. Although, I question whether it's possible to be "good" at something that offers no challenge.

This is exactly the sort of mindset that has put modern gaming into the bad state it's in.

Modern gaming is in a bad state? That's news to me.

[kitten]

bleeding hell this was exhausting, but i finished my 1cc list, which is chock full of action games: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p1246899

i feel like most of these are at least somewhat meaningful accomplishments, but there are a few where a game felt relatively easy to 1cc and others where it was almost brain dead - shooter or not. i didn't know where to divide a meaningful line or not, so i tried to just cover everything where a 1cc achieved. it seems in sheer volume i have quite the majority of people beat out, but there's always perikles, who just, holy shit, how does someone even have that kind of energy??? mad respect if you ever look in this thread, perikles, i'm fairly convinced you're not a human being

this list will probably be somewhat revealing of my taste. also, just, man. at this size, i start getting overwhelmed and wondering when 1cc matters. it's such a broad thing to consider with how you finish a game. there are some challenge runs i've done of games that didn't make this list that are way more impressive than "1cc," i think even with some shooters, and then there are 1cc's with shooters that feel easier than even plainly beating an nes/fc action game.

[Squire Grooktook]

I am half tempted to throw together a quickie title screen/stage start text based on this using the title screen effect/animation I've been building lately.

Do eet Squire!

Here ya go:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0m2MF66Iqs

I was originally going to have the Birrru materialize upward from the bottom, but went with the reverse since it looked like it was forming from raining blood

Also technical bonus to whoever recognizes the origin of the bio-mechanical stone flooring.

*edit* oh and make sure you watch in 60fps hd otherwise the flicker effect I used at the end will look fucked up.


The things I do for this community

[Skykid]

And I never claimed I was good at Alien Soldier. So what? There's tons of games out there (such as literally every successful arcade game ever) that are fun to play when you're shit at them. The fact that a game in an arcade derived genre is only fun when you're good -- and being at good any game is fun in itself, no matter how shit the game -- tells us that it's probably a shit game.

I was going to respond to this kusopost with a snubbish quip, but why not engage.

This ultra-simplistic disservice to gaming as a medium is quite staggering, even for someone who spends most of their time misunderstanding it at a fundamental level. The missing link you're looking for is "learning curve". A game doesn't go from being good or bad to being superb when you suddenly master it: there's a gamut of ways a game changes its spots from first play to completion or mastery. Sure, a beltscroller can be fun for the first stage when you have no real understanding of it whatsoever, but it changes its form multiple times if you decide you want to approach it in a different way. If you ultimately clear it on a coin it will be a markedly different game from the one you first started playing, and you will have experienced a veritable catalogue of idiosyncrasies in game design that are never revealed if you don't bother to scratch beneath the surface.

Games that are hard to the point where they're barely fun from the outset are often the most rewarding if the game is actually well designed and demands some level of dedication. Undeadline, which leads with utter brutality from the first 30 seconds is such a case. Learning to control and best even the first stage is a liberating experience, not because it's broken, but because conversely it works beautifully - a test of skill and memory that requires accuracy and quick-wittedness. The Makaimura series doesn't have a fanbase because it's fun to keep getting motherfucked in the first five minutes, it's got a fanbase because it's fun to switch the motherfucking and punish the game the way it tried to punish you.

[Sumez]

Sorry for quoting a 2 page old post, but this thread is 2fast4me, and keeping up with it is a full time job.

holy diver recently went (at least temporarily) bonkers after he did a video, even had effects reaching over to yahoo auctions japan. probably why i only grabbed a loose copy for cheap and counted myself lucky. damn, that box art is fine, though.

Holy d..amn!! CIB copy goes for at least three times of what I paid now, and it's not even that long ago I bought it. One of my more recent Famicom acquisitions (at least compared to the ~20 year history of my collection, not including the games I got as a kid)
When did AVGN play Holy Diver though? I must have missed that one.
I actually tend to check AGDQ schedules beforehand to see if they include any "obscure" games already on my "to get"-list, so I can bump up their priority. Glad I managed to pick up Magical Pop'n before it was featured there.

[Squire Grooktook]

Yeah Skykid's post really captures my own experience with Alien Soldier.

It's one of those games where learning your character and their unique fighting style is as or more important than memorizing stage layouts and enemy patterns. And the game really does transform it's playstyle in a number of interesting ways as you progress through it. It's one reason why I consider it such a one-of-a-kind game.

If your a dense mofo unable open your mind and wrap it around something new and outside your comfort zone, I can very much see it being a confusing and alien experience to soldier through.

[__SKYe]

worth a picture refresher for how that d-pad looks exactly, imo. very xbox 360 circle kinda thing, but wayyyyy better than a 360 dpad.

Fair enough.
I've also never played with an XBox (any version) gamepad, so I've no idea as to how it plays.
Mind you, it's not that I'm a PlayStation fanboy or anything, its just that PS gamepads are pretty much all I've ever used, so their design grew on me, and that's probably why I still (and probably always will) prefer them to all others.

i'm pretty gentle with my controllers, i think. never done anything to break one, all my stuff just wears down over simple repeated use. most stuff i have that ever gets technical problems just needs cleaning or replaced nipple pads. rarely, i will push buttons a bit too hard in a game, but it's gotta be something where there's a variable jump and i'm trying to make sure i get the absolute height or something, or something where i'm pushing multiple buttons at once. sometimes i'll hold too hard in a game with a run button just to make sure i'm always runnin'!

See this is how I always start out playing. Gently (or at least trying to be).
But invariably, with any kind of game that isn't an RPG, I'l always end up pressing too hard on D-Pad/buttons, especially when there is some intense action going on. And that's why I love the feeling I get from a PS gamepad, that it won't break no matter what.

Regardless, Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon R (SFC) is superior to both these games, so if in doubt about which game to play, definitely go for that one.
Otherwise, you can't really go wrong with either of the versions. Slightly different flavors of the same game, I guess.

as someone who has yet to find it within themselves to think of the first final fight (the only i've played) as anything more than some eye candy, and mostly a quarter-sucking vacuum (1cc's of final fight look JARRINGLY tedious and boring, at least to me), would you recommend this?

the only beat 'em ups i feel like i've truly, sincerely enjoyed are the first two bare knuckle games and double dragon II. HUGE bonus points if those sailor moon games are multiplayer, which can turn a banal belt scroller into a good time. my roommate - she's a big fan of sailor moon, see? would be a lot of fun to go at this with her.

If you go simply by the gameplay mechanics, then if you don't like Final Fight, then you won't enjoy this one too, as they play very similarly. The difficulty is probably also on par with the SFC version of Final Fight (the arcade FInal Fight is MUCH more brutal), maybe a bit less. Still have to play it a bit more to get a better opinion, since I've been playing Final Fight for quite a while now (and it's kinda hard to properly compare difficulty without bias, given the difference in experience).
However, if you enjoy the character/overall design, and want 2P mode (like WelsMegalodon said, the SFC games have 2P mode), then yes, it can be very fun.

Fascinating dissection of R's game mechanics, __SKYe.

Thanks, and once again, I apologise for formerly dissecting the wrong game.

Digimon World PS1 is actually pretty interesting... and predates the anime.

Oh man, I hadn't seen that game in years.
Wouldn't even remember it if you didn't mentioned it. It's been so long, and I remember so little about it, that now I wanna play again.

The projectile attacks are fun to fire off at enemies who hug the sides of the screen, but it's true that you could remove them without much affecting the game. I like that they included Rolling Heart Vibration, though.

Yeah, it's a nice touch indeed, but I regard them more like extras that are fun to use every once in a while, but not that useful in actual tense moments.
In fact, thinking a bit more about it, it's quite possible that they are detrimental to beginners in the genre, as perhaps they might think that a long range attack equals safety, when in fact, when improperly used (or abused), it can get them in a precarious situation.

On that note, Esmeraude can be defeated in one cycle, just like Trasher, albeit via a throw loop rather than an infinite combo. The Ryuuko MD fan in me found this quite amusing.

Yeah I know, but for someone like me, who comes from Final Fight, I couldn't help but chuckle when I first fought her, by the fact that they actually put it in there.

Now, a few questions from this belt scroller novice:
- Have you been able to figure out a consistent input for the piledriver? Jump + Attack while holding an enemy only causes your character to jump. (EDIT: Turns out I had to jump while holding an enemy, then press the A button. Silly me.

Yeah, you already figured it out.
I think the main thing to remember then, is to press the A button while you're still going up (after a jump), in order to actually perform the attack. Often times, I'd forget to press it soon enough, and she's just land with the enemy normally, and release him (and there's a good chance you get hit).

- How do you deal with the swarms of rolling enemies in Stage 3? (I believe the official guidebook calls them "Heavy Shades".) Is it consistently possible to knock them out of their rolls?

These are very annoying, and I don't really have a strategy yet, but as you say, I find that trying to hit them out of their roll is not too effective, as oftentimes, it seems as if the attack just goes over their head.
The best thing one can do (again, I've yet to formulate a proper strategy) is to move away from them (which isn't always easy) when they roll at you, and immediately follow them, so that you can hit them as they get up.
Also note that, much like in Final Fight, the health draining attack drains little HP from you, so in these situations, you may want to use it instead of getting hit (several times, most often) by them, as you'll probably end up losing fewer HP that way.
The similar enemy in Final Fight (the fat, bald guys that charge at you) can be stopped by either of the jump attacks, so it might be possible here as well, but I've still to properly test it.
One last note, this is one situation where doing the last-hit-throw thing can be quite useful (if you have the time to do it), as when there are several of them, trying to do the entire combo on a single one, will probably result in you getting pummeled.
I'll post something when I know more.

You only ever hear belt scrollers labeled this way by people with no interest in 1ccs, so I'm surprised to hear this from a player of your caliber.

And yes, the two Super Famicom titles feature two-player simultaneous play. Only Rei and Makoto are worth using in the first game, though.

not the first time i've been told that someone finds my commentary on beat 'em ups to be seemingly out of character. my warm-up to belt scrolling beat 'em ups has been very slow! there are a couple i like (bare knuckle 2 is actually a bona fide 4/4 star game, to me), but i think my problems usually come from how repetitive play ends up being. so many bosses in these types of games end up being hyper-aggressive, extremely powerful, and with little way to get past them other than what feels like - i don't know how else to describe this, so forgive me - cheesing them. i'm at very best only decent at bare knuckle, but i feel like when i die, it is fair. i didn't properly zone enemies, got greedy, or didn't react with proper timing to a tell. there are a few moments here and there where i feel like a hit or two are unfair, but the game does have a life bar and i can use it as a learning opportunity to not fuck up the 2nd time.

in more standard fare belt scrolling beu's (like most SNK stuff they were banging out to sell cabinets as fast as possible or popular licensed games such as x-men, simpsons, tmnt), i feel like i'm just abusing the one blindspot in an aggressive AI over and over again, and i often feel like that blindspot is cruel and unintuitive. been a while since i played final fight and what i played was on the VC via the shit snes version, but it felt quite a bit like that, to me. if anyone wants to make an impassioned case on why i'm a scrub and the game is dope, i will take my lickings, but i just couldn't have fun with it. i've heard the series gets much better as it goes on, but final fight tough ain't a cheap game.

Yeah, perhaps the most common way Beat-em-ups are bashed is by their repetitiveness.
And by the way, in my opinion, this is one of the genres that suffers the most from watching replays as opposed to honestly playing the game(s). This is because any sort of strategy/positioning/skill, will most likely not be properly portrayed in a replay, and the thing people will remember the most, is how there are a ton of repetitive enemy groups, and/or how the player uses some cheesy way to beat them (like infinite combo in Final Fight/Bare Knuckle).
The most important advice I can give anyone on getting to enjoy a good game on this genre, is give an honest try to a game like Final Fight (yes, I mention Final Fight many times, but I believe it to be the epitome of Beat-em-ups ).
Pulling of the last-hit-throw technique on several enemies in succession perfectly, just in time to avoid getting it by the ones behind you, and being able to walk from these situations without taking a single hit, is one of the most enjoyable sensations on any game.

By the way, if you're a fan of Bare Knuckle 1, on Stage 7 (the elevator), it's an awesome rush, to immediately poke & grab enemies as they appear/fall from the sky and throw them backwards to their doom.
On that same game, I usually see the last stage bashed, because you need to fight every boss in the game without the special attack, but to me, it is the single most fun stage in the entire game. This is where you know whether you're good at the game or not.

With that said, there are games (again, like in any other genre) that are not very good, and therefore probably not worth playing.
But one can't judge the entire genre based on these games.

THE YEAR IS 2015

wow, i cannot believe alien soldier happened two years ago, now! i fucking missed it, too!

Yesterday, I played Harmful Park for the first time in a while, and image my surprise when:

[Sumez]

Alien Soldier is on my bucket list for 2017. Skimming the heated debate going on over the past few stages, people touch on the PAL vs NTSC subject. I know the game is PAL optimized (one of the rare cases on MegaDrive I feel), but apart from the aspect ratio (which can be countered on a bad enough dude of a monitor), and the lack of visualshock, speedshock and soundshock, is there any reason to avoid the PAL version, provided you're playing it with correct 50hz timing?

</50hz master race>

[Shoryukev]

Dear lord this thread was active this weekend. I love it! Looks like quite the shit-show around Alien Soldier, I've never played the game but my interest is peaked as well.

[Obscura]

The Makaimura series doesn't have a fanbase because it's fun to keep getting motherfucked in the first five minutes, it's got a fanbase because it's fun to switch the motherfucking and punish the game the way it tried to punish you.

Makaimura isn't like whatever shitty licensed games (or Alien Soldier LOL) that we bought as kids and had to convince ourselves were playable because we weren't getting another game for six months. It was an arcade game. If you were at an arcade, there was no sunk cost associated with playing a game for the first time.

If Makaimura wasn't fun on that first credit where it buried you in stage 1, it would have never had a following, because no one would have played past that first credit. Being fun on that first credit wouldn't have been enough for the series to become what it did (I agree entirely that learning curves are a thing! Go read my posts on The Super Shinobi a page or two back, plzkthx), but it was a necessary precondition for the series having any kind of popularity.

[BIL]

BIL, been meaning to ask : what nationality are ya? are you a japanese modern-day samuraï, living as an hermit and training to hone his sword skills every day? or an american soldier stationed in Japan, to keep 'em japs in check? or an English trooper stationed there, shedding blood for the glory of Commonwealth?

I need a bit of backstory here Or, should I say : "STAGE 0 : Prologue of BIRRRU"

The latter is closest - I had a very trans-atlantic upbringing! For now, let's just say I hail from... CUCK ISLAND

oh god i was just consulting my notes and ranger x's highest difficulty is apparently "heavy" and not "rough" i am a liar and fraud.

i think what i played with the highest difficulty as "rough" was something else, and have the notion it was recent. god, fuck me, i'm never going to remember

I was wondering! I've not played Ranger X so it's all hard n' heavy, with a bit of chibi if you play on EZ:



"Rough" reminds me of the Lemmings' difficulty titles. And is a bit strangely erotic too, oo guvna.

Here ya go:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0m2MF66Iqs

Aww thanks

Alien Soldier is on my bucket list for 2017. Skimming the heated debate

Haha, there's no debate on Alien Soldier itself. Just a bit of janitorial work mandated by a certain shitposting scrub who went all scorched earth for the sake of internet cool points. ;3

Gonna defer on the 50hz question, you know I am glorious nippon ver or bust. >:3

I agree entirely that learning curves are a thing! Go read my posts on The Super Shinobi a page or two back, plzkthx

We've already established that you like TSS because you can just about stagger along at zero experience, where Alien Soldier is inherently a bit too complex for that. That's not a critique of AS in anything but the most shallow of terms - it's a deliberately extreme game, obviously it is going to have a harsher entry curve than the dead-simple jump n' shoot of TSS. Unfortunately, you've tried to dress this up as a definitive statement on the game lacking depth or being dumb or whatever, when I (and now you!) have confirmed you understand it about as well as I do Crummy DOOM Usermap #43245246, so here were are.

Debate the principle of learning curves all you like - AS is most definitely not for everyone, and I myself certainly wouldn't put it in an arcade as-is. But please get some humility re: specific games you demonstrably know nothing about. Otherwise, you are shitting in my thread, and as stated - no matter how much I like you or anyone else here, I can't let that slide. 3;

[Blinge]

Looks like quite the shit-show around Alien Soldier, I've never played the game but my interest is peaked as well.

Haha. This.

[Obscura]

Debate the principle of learning curves all you like - AS is most definitely not for everyone, and I myself certainly wouldn't put it in an arcade as-is. But please get some humility re: specific games you demonstrably know nothing about. Otherwise, you are shitting in my thread, and as stated - no matter how much I like you or anyone else here, I can't let that slide. 3;

Sorry, but the whole "you have to be good before you can criticize it!" argument is dumb as hell, and you know it. It's a rhetorical trap that people who can't actually argue in favor of a game they like use so that they can automatically invalidate any argument against said game, regardless of the content of that argument.

Player didn't spend the 30 hours to git gud: "You can't criticize it until you've spent 30 hours to git gud!"
Player did spend the 30 hours to git gud: "Obviously you must have liked it because you played it for 30 hours!"

Further recommended reading: http://www.learntocounter.com/the-hundr ... s-fallacy/

EDIT: Also, guys, your interest isn't "peaked". It's piqued. Lrn2Englishplz!

[BIL]

Sorry, but the whole "you have to be good before you can criticize it!" argument is dumb as hell, and you know it. It's a rhetorical trap that people who can't actually argue in favor of a game they like use so that they can automatically invalidate any argument against said game, regardless of the content of that argument.

I've never once said, or even implied, that you must be good at Alien Soldier before you can criticise it. As I just reiterated in the above post, I'm saying you need to understand how the game works before you can criticise how it works, or in your case liken it to Punch Out. You blatantly had no idea why a player would ever not just teleport ad infinitum, I explained this is a great way to waste ammo due to the game's mechanical and boss designs, and soon enough get actively punished. Then radio silence from you.

I don't mind (you know I am a softy), but don't come back as if you've not just been comprehensively exposed as ignorant. It's tiring and really shits up the thread!

Player didn't spend the 30 hours to git gud: "You can't criticize it until you've spent 30 hours to git gud!"
Player did spend the 30 hours to git gud: "Obviously you must have liked it because you played it for 30 hours!"

This again. If you can't tell that whole passage was sending up the classic mainstream trap of "wahh a credit only lasts 30 minutes!" (shumpsfarm: yeah but you'll need a lot longer than that to play decently!) "wahh but its impossibly difficult!" (sf: yeah but you'll improve!) "wahh a credit only..." hopefully now you do! Again, I can't remember how many hours it took to first clear AS a couple years ago. It sure as fuck wasn't 30 though, I don't think my Holy Diver 1LC even took that long. If you like, I can get links to the several posts I've made where I caution people that AS is not the extreme ordeal mainstreamers characterise it as.

Further recommended reading: http://www.learntocounter.com/the-hundr ... s-fallacy/

See above, you've misunderstood me. Please do me the favour of assuming I have the baseline critical faculties to detect if a game I'm putting time into is any good.

[Shoryukev]

English was never my strongest subject, I need to put in some more time and git gud at it.

[Obscura]

I've never once said, or even implied, that you must be good at Alien Soldier before you can criticise it. As I just reiterated in the above post, I'm saying you need to understand how the game works before you can criticise how it works, or in your case liken it to Punch Out. You blatantly had no idea why a player would ever not just teleport ad infinitum, I explained this is a great way to waste ammo due to the game's mechanical and boss designs, and soon enough get actively punished. Then radio silence from you.

I don't mind (you know I am a softy), but don't come back as if you've not just been comprehensively exposed as ignorant. It's tiring and really shits up the thread!

OK, let's assume that a few seconds after the end of my last credit of the game, it suddenly stops becoming a "call-and-response zero teleport" fest, and actually punishing you for playing in such a manner. That still leaves a full quarter of the game that can be played in a ridiculous and boring manner. Why the hell would anyone design a game like this? It's not like it's hard to find games that have an early boss or stage that says "L2P correctly before you can proceed" -- why the hell does Alien Soldier put its boss of this nature over a quarter of the way into the game, leaving beginners to play "simon says"? And, as an even better question, who the hell would play the game to the point that they got to see it?!?!?! Well, aside from kids who weren't getting another game for six months.

[__SKYe]

Played Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon R some more.

It does play much like Final Fight, but it still doesn't quite match it in its polish.
Jump+Down+Attack & grab in particular, doesn't seem to work as nicely as in the FF games, though is is simply a very minor flaw.

Where the game does lose some points, is in the lack of invincibility upon knock down.
There are many times where you'll get pummeled relentlessly simply because the enemies are already attacking when you get up.
The 2nd boss, especially will destroy you if you happen to get knocked down near a wall, because he will relentlessly perform an attack, and you'll get hit everytime you get up. You might be able to escape using the health draining special, but I'm not sure.
In any case, pretty bad design decision.
Also, invulnerability upon throwing seems shorter than FF, but it is forgivable. This makes throwing enemies, or performing the last-hit-throw dangerous when there are multiple enemies in front of you.
But then again, FF also has this, only it doesn't seem to be as dangerous (although it might very well be just me).
Upon more extensive play, grabbing also doesn't quite seem to be as polished as in FF, but once again, maybe I'm just being finicky.

WelshMegalodon, about the rolling guys in stage 3.
Hitting them out of their rolling attack is near impossible, as you'll most likely miss them, and get hit instead.
You can hit them with any of the jump attacks, but it's very hard to do when there are 4 (and sometimes even 2) of them, so it's not too effective.
The best tactic I can come up with, is using the health draining attack. Yes, you will lose health, but I find you will be better off than trying to beat them by other means.
Perhaps with more time & experience, I'll be able to come up with something else, but for now, that will do.

Note that, usually I'd say to use the special attack when you're close to dying, but in this game, they are not recoverable after death.
The only way to regain them, is by picking up Ribbon items. And since they are especially powerful, I'd say it's better to save them for the bosses. But then again, you may find a better use for them (and it's always better to use them instead of getting a Game Over ).

The same fat guys later on (that also jump AND roll) get especially aggravating, as jump attacking is pretty much the most reliable way to deal with them, which can get quite hard to do given the amount of enemies that appear at once.

The game gets damn tough later on, and even though it only has 4 stages, they are quite long.
Also, if you can reach the last part of level 3, you're hardly a beginner belt-scroller player.

EDIT: Also, guys, your interest isn't "peaked". It's piqued. Lrn2Englishplz!

Really classy, attacking people for their misspellings.
This is an internet forum, and even though better eloquence than a chat room is expected, perfect language isn't exactly neccessary, is it?

EDIT: By the way HG101 just published an article about Music In Castlevania. I know most of you already know plenty about the songs, but if anyone finds it worth it, here's the link.