OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

[borti4938]

Uploaded fw. 0.73 which has only minor changes:
* Fixed adv. timing tweaker using previous values when updating parameters
* Added "hsync tolerance" option to allow detection of some Neo-Geo models (needs to be adjusted to >9.5us with H-PLL coasts of 3)

Nice Could you please push the updates to your GitHub Repository, too, such that I can keep the DIY-Audio up to date?

[bonzo.bits]

I updated BOM just a while ago with a replacement (CS-107) which is easier available e.g. from Ebay or Aliexpress.

Both of those are sold out, but I saw on Aliexpress something called 'upright scart socket' - not the right-angle scart socket. Would this be something that could work as a substitute?

I have everything else ordered, just need a final bit of assistance with the scart connector

[Bahn Yuki]

Definitely not worth it. Today's TVs are so good in terms of scaling that you you would have to have a real shitty one to make the Faroudja worth it. Also nobody has tested the Faroudja's compatibility with the OSSC's 720p output.

My Onkyo 708 receiver has the Faroudja DCDi label on it and it can pass the line triple mode of the OSSC nicely. This is better than my Onkyo 636 that don't even show an image when line tripled.

[marqs]

Uploaded fw. 0.73 which has only minor changes:
* Fixed adv. timing tweaker using previous values when updating parameters
* Added "hsync tolerance" option to allow detection of some Neo-Geo models (needs to be adjusted to >9.5us with H-PLL coasts of 3)

Nice Could you please push the updates to your GitHub Repository, too, such that I can keep the DIY-Audio up to date?

Just updated github and wikipage. Available memory for soft-cpu is starting to get tight, but I'll try to get one additional M9K replaced by LEs elsewhere which would add 4kB for CPU, making it easier to integrate add-ons without dropping other functionality.

Both of those are sold out, but I saw on Aliexpress something called 'upright scart socket' - not the right-angle scart socket. Would this be something that could work as a substitute?

I have everything else ordered, just need a final bit of assistance with the scart connector

Most right angle scart sockets should be compatible as the pin/hole layout seems to be quite standard. In worst case you just need to cut some plastic.

[h1ghju1ce]

Is it possible for the OSSC to "run in reverse"?

as in; using the DVI as an input, and the AV1/2/3 as an output?

I was wondering if it could be used as an alternative to an Exton Super Emotia, or an ArcadeVGA card, to downscale
480p output (say from a Windows + Emulator installation) out to a CRT

I'm guessing the answer is something like: "No not at the moment, but maybe with a custom built FW, but that wont happen any time soon"

[Thomago]

I'm guessing the answer is something like: "No, that's technically impossible."

[BuckoA51]

Not possible though entirely possible that a similar device to OSSC could do this in future.

[marqs]

I'm guessing the answer is something like: "No, that's technically impossible."

Yes, that's the correct answer.

I was wondering if it could be used as an alternative to an Exton Super Emotia, or an ArcadeVGA card, to downscale
480p output (say from a Windows + Emulator installation) out to a CRT

Why not just use VGA output of your graphics card (if available) and custom 240p etc. modelines?

[BazookaBen]

I was wondering if it could be used as an alternative to an Exton Super Emotia, or an ArcadeVGA card, to downscale
480p output (say from a Windows + Emulator installation) out to a CRT

Why not just use VGA output of your graphics card (if available) and custom 240p etc. modelines?

Yeah, not necessary for a PC, but I'd love a feature like this for 480p/i for consoles like the Wii/PS2/360 that have games that improperly output 480i or 480p for low-res games. You may need to use pixel quadrupling to get it to work with certain DAC's that have a higher minimum pixel clock.

[h1ghju1ce]

I'm guessing the answer is something like: "No, that's technically impossible."

Yes, that's the correct answer.

I was wondering if it could be used as an alternative to an Exton Super Emotia, or an ArcadeVGA card, to downscale
480p output (say from a Windows + Emulator installation) out to a CRT

Why not just use VGA output of your graphics card (if available) and custom 240p etc. modelines?

As far as I'm aware, not all GPU cards can "go that low"
they dont have the Pixel clock range to display 240p
(in "normal" refresh ranges, I know there are some modeline tricks can get a 120Hz display to output 240p)

From the CRT_EmuDriver page
http://geedorah.com/eiusdemmodi/forum/v ... .php?id=65

Not all cards "support low pixel clocks"


So unless you have one of those limited range of GPUs or an ArcadeVGA, you're limited to a min of 480p

But I think this is a "gap in the market" then for a "LineHalfer" that allows you to use any GPU in your PC/MAME machine

(BTW, just to give credit, I did post this question after RetroRGB mentioned it in passing on one of his weekly podcasts
when talking about the RetroAVS outputting only 720p HDMI)

[marqs]

As far as I'm aware, not all GPU cards can "go that low"
they dont have the Pixel clock range to display 240p
(in "normal" refresh ranges, I know there are some modeline tricks can get a 120Hz display to output 240p)

You can always use higher horizontal rate to get around pixel clock limitations. For example, my gtx 780 Ti can't output 256x240, but 720x240, 1024x240 etc. work totally fine.

[Fudoh]

But I think this is a "gap in the market"

he's aware of that. I already pitched an alternative down scaler based on the same design when the OSSC project was first announced.

The perfect solution would - of course - be to have both types of processing in a single unit - like the Genius II provides 1080p upscaling as well as 240p down scaling. And yes, there's certainly demand which the market can't fill. Emotias and UVCs are extremely hard to find these days. The Genius II is rather expensive ($300+) and other solutions are more complicated.

Also we're now in a situation where MiniPCs are powerful enough to handle a lot of emulation, but their graphics chips don't offer 240p output *AND* they've all dropped VGA by now. On the Intel GPUs customization is hardly an option.

In essence a 480p DVI-I (both digital and analog) to 240p YUV and RGBs converter in the 150 EUR price range would be fantastic. Yes, it wouldn't push the same numbers as the OSSC does, but it would be a great addition and certainly worth the effort.

[RGB0b]

In essence a 480p DVI-I (both digital and analog) to 240p YUV and RGBs converter in the 150 EUR price range would be fantastic. Yes, it wouldn't push the same numbers as the OSSC does, but it would be a great addition and certainly worth the effort.

I agree 100%.

[Guspaz]

The sticking point is that the OSSC is analog in/digital out, right? Would a 480p -> 240p (by simply skipping every other line) be possible in the current hardware if it was fed analog input and spat out digital output? Maybe that could be run through an HDMI to VGA converter.

[LDigital]

Does the ossc need the 5v line to work via Scart? For example If I were to feed it rgb and sync lines only via the Scart would that work?

Also, is it possible to make the picture any sharper? I love having everything in 480p x2 with scanlines but the image is softer and not as razor sharp than if it was actual 240p.

[Fudoh]

Does the ossc need the 5v line to work via Scart?

no.

[BuckoA51]

In essence a 480p DVI-I (both digital and analog) to 240p YUV and RGBs converter in the 150 EUR price range would be fantastic. Yes, it wouldn't push the same numbers as the OSSC does, but it would be a great addition and certainly worth the effort.

It's definitely something I would get behind too.

[marqs]

The sticking point is that the OSSC is analog in/digital out, right? Would a 480p -> 240p (by simply skipping every other line) be possible in the current hardware if it was fed analog input and spat out digital output?

It can be implemented that easily only if source is 524 or 526-line signal. Standard 525-line 480p signal can be easily converted to 480i, but not to 240p. That said, if output is CRT, it's possible to utilize FPGA PLLs with non-100% exact ratios to achieve more flexibility regarding line counts, and then compensate by dynamically adjusting scanline length during vblank to keep refresh rate synced to input.

Also, is it possible to make the picture any sharper? I love having everything in 480p x2 with scanlines but the image is softer and not as razor sharp than if it was actual 240p.

I didn't get your comparision of 480p and 240p. With 480p input, x2 mode just turns 1 pixel into 2x2 pixels, so everything is kept as sharp as possible without adding artificial post-processing.

In essence a 480p DVI-I (both digital and analog) to 240p YUV and RGBs converter in the 150 EUR price range would be fantastic. Yes, it wouldn't push the same numbers as the OSSC does, but it would be a great addition and certainly worth the effort.

It's definitely something I would get behind too.

It'd need partially similar HW than OSSC but slightly less, so that price point should be realistic assuming there'd be enough demand to allow buying materials in large quantities.

[BuckoA51]

I could set up a separate mailing list/waiting list for it so we could judge demand.

[Guspaz]

It may be worth looking into the GBS CFW that does 480p -> 240p downscaling, to see how well that works and how much lag is introduced. If it's good enough, it's cheaper than doing up a whole new OSSC-like design.

[BazookaBen]

The sticking point is that the OSSC is analog in/digital out, right? Would a 480p -> 240p (by simply skipping every other line) be possible in the current hardware if it was fed analog input and spat out digital output?

It can be implemented that easily only if source is 524 or 526-line signal. Standard 525-line 480p signal can be easily converted to 480i, but not to 240p. That said, if output is CRT, it's possible to utilize FPGA PLLs with non-100% exact ratios to achieve more flexibility regarding line counts, and then compensate by dynamically adjusting scanline length during vblank to keep refresh rate synced to input.

Yeah, this sounds fine to me, no need to make a new piece of hardware. I'd guess a majority of the people wanting to downscale would be CRT users wanting to get proper 240p with games like Mega Man 9 on Wii.

And speaking of Mega Man 9 Wii, a 480i>240p downscale would also be useful, since Mega Man 9 doesn't output 480p without homebrew and patching.

[Salacorn]

Both of those are sold out, but I saw on Aliexpress something called 'upright scart socket' - not the right-angle scart socket. Would this be something that could work as a substitute?

I have everything else ordered, just need a final bit of assistance with the scart connector

Hiya mate, and much apologies on a laaate reply. Had troubles getting activation email (I reckon it had to do with Godaddy AU...)

Anyways, here is what I have been able to find. DO keep in mind that I have not bought any of these except for the SYBA adapter (I intend to, but priorities have changed for the moment. Such is life though!)
==================

IT6613E - I discovered that a SYBA (SY-ADA31025) VGA-to-HDMI dongle might have used an IT6613E in its design, and ended up giving it a fair go. Sure enough, it had one. At least, as far as appearances go.




=========================
TVP7002PZP - Found on both Mouser and Digikey.

Digi: 296-22891-ND
http://www.digikey.com.au/scripts/DkSea ... 6612804755

Mouser: 595-TVP7002PZP
http://au.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Texa ... j%2fWoU%3d

=========================
EP4CE15E22C8N - Digi and Mouser found

Digi: 544-3312-ND
http://www.digikey.com.au/product-searc ... 44-3312-ND

Mouser: 989-EP4CE15E22C8N
http://au.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Alte ... ZyFQ%3d%3d

=========================
T6-13B - Found on ebay

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2-Pcs-Right- ... Sw--1Wq3Di

No specsheet or drawing though, but looks like it is the same as OSSC utilises.


I realise by now (and your post) you may have already sourced most of these. Also, for what its worth, I had saved a Digi trolley full of components I selected. I have not done for Mouser, though last I checked Mouser was out of stock on the triple phono socket. If not for that, Digi would not be needed really.

http://www.digikey.com.au/short/3h8tbj

Hope that helps and again sorry for a delayed reply ^_^

[EnragedWhale]

Hi guys, having an issue with my Amiga and RGB modified NES through the OSSC. Both are fine through the Framemeister.

I'm getting scrolling diagonal interference patterns that speed up, slow and change direction. They are faint but noticeable on the NES in dark colors and really strong on the Amiga across the entire screen. No issues with any other console.

Would I be right in thinking this is a cable issue? Maybe a ground problem?


EDIT: for clarity

[wildchild22]

Hi everyone I am using my n64 and I need to set the lpf to either medium or high to get perfect sync (Using diddy kong racing as a test) without the lpf filter it looses sync while driving in the main world in the water near the rainbow.


Is there any way to assign the low pass filters to the remote?
As I would like to be able to use a button to turn them on then toggle low medium high and off.

I use the remote from videogameperfection.

[BuckoA51]

Are you on the latest firmware?

[wildchild22]

I udated to the newest firmware and it is the same thing. So the n64 requires the filters on high for me. using tims kit.

thanks

I am using a hdfury integral to combine the audio and dvi and it is perfectly compatible in case someone else is looking for a device.

Are you on the latest firmware?

[RocketBelt]

Hi guys, having an issue with my Amiga and RGB modified NES through the OSSC. Both are fine through the Framemeister.
I'm getting scrolling diagonal interference patterns that speed up, slow and change direction. They are faint but noticeable on the NES in dark colors and really strong on the Amiga across the entire screen. No issues with any other console.
Would I be right in thinking this is a cable issue? Maybe a ground problem?

It sounds like ground loop. Try plugging either the OSSC, or the amiga into a different socket and see if it looks different.

[EnragedWhale]

It sounds like ground loop. Try plugging either the OSSC, or the amiga into a different socket and see if it looks different.

Thanks I'll give that a try, although the amiga is on the same power strip as my other consoles that don't have the issue. Not sure if that makes a difference?

Just opened the scart plug on the amiga's lead and it looks pretty poor quality, nothing appears shielded. Also I thought the metal surround of the plug should have a ground wire on? This lead doesn't...

[fafangus]

For my amiga 1200 I go like this :
Amiga 1200 > sync strike > extron rgb > ossc av1
In av3 directly with the sync strike I got sync problem (colours going and outing specialy the blue), with this way no problem, clear and perfect stable signal

[marqs]

I udated to the newest firmware and it is the same thing. So the n64 requires the filters on high for me. using tims kit.

Do you use CS75 sync output of the board, or standard composite out of n64?

Thanks I'll give that a try, although the amiga is on the same power strip as my other consoles that don't have the issue. Not sure if that makes a difference?

Remember that Amiga's PSU is earth-grounded (probably your TV too), so there may be another path for AV signal return currents. If you have an unearthed plug/splitter available, you might also want to try that.

For my amiga 1200 I go like this :
Amiga 1200 > sync strike > extron rgb > ossc av1
In av3 directly with the sync strike I got sync problem (colours going and outing specialy the blue), with this way no problem, clear and perfect stable signal

How about AV1 directly? Just a couple weeks ago I was playing A1200 like that one evening, and no sync/color issues in many hours.