XRGB-mini Framemeister

[Everblue]

You will get much better results if you use 4X or 5X profiles with the Aspect Ratio set to 4:3. These are old games and were not meant to be stretched to fill a 16:9 screen.

@austin352
Reposting this in case you missed it

I like my scanlines even, and if possibly, as thick as possible. I sit a couple of feet away from my 27" monitor so if there is something "off" it would certainly bother me.
Can you post the new settings please? Also, can I revert to an older FW if I don't like the results?

[Thomago]

@Braca862: Also, it's your choice and all, but you should really go and turn SHARPNESS to 0.

[austin532]

You will get much better results if you use 4X or 5X profiles with the Aspect Ratio set to 4:3. These are old games and were not meant to be stretched to fill a 16:9 screen.

@austin352
Reposting this in case you missed it

I like my scanlines even, and if possibly, as thick as possible. I sit a couple of feet away from my 27" monitor so if there is something "off" it would certainly bother me.
Can you post the new settings please? Also, can I revert to an older FW if I don't like the results?

Yup, I saw it the first time. I will post these soon.

[Everblue]

You will get much better results if you use 4X or 5X profiles with the Aspect Ratio set to 4:3. These are old games and were not meant to be stretched to fill a 16:9 screen.

@austin352
Reposting this in case you missed it

I like my scanlines even, and if possibly, as thick as possible. I sit a couple of feet away from my 27" monitor so if there is something "off" it would certainly bother me.
Can you post the new settings please? Also, can I revert to an older FW if I don't like the results?

Yup, I saw it the first time. I will post these soon.

Cool thanks ^-^

[AndehX]

@Braca862: Also, it's your choice and all, but you should really go and turn SHARPNESS to 0.

Yeah, very first thing I noticed, above the incorrect aspect ratio and scaling, was the over sharpening. I'd definitely recommend turning the TV's sharpness to 0 and the Framemeisters sharpness to either 1 (for 240p) or 0 (for 480i)

[Thomago]

Actually, apart from very soft 240p sources, I'd recommend to leave SHARPNESS at 0 there as well.

[AndehX]

240p definitely looks better with Sharpness at 1, if you're looking for that sharp "emulator" look

[Thomago]

The problem is: The sharpness filter obviously isn't designed for low res material, as it tends to split up the big pixels of 240p sources instead of sharpening them as a whole. Depending on the source this has devastating effects on pixel art.

[Bondy]

Hi,

First post in this thread, I have had my mini for ~2 months now and i've settled on a few questions I can't find an answer for:

1. I see ghosting and loss of scanlines when moving vertically (in a vert shmup or a fast horizontal game). Is this my monitor not being fast enough or is it a necessary evil of the framemeister?

2. Most of my consoles I've managed to get running perfectly but my RGB modded SNES jr shows a checkerboard pattern on solid colours. How likely is this to be because I use composite video as sync and not pure sync?

3. Is turning the power off every night while it's on standby bad for the mini?

4. I'm using my psp 2000 psu to power it (240v power grid here) is this safe and are there any side effects?

5. Is the 480p component image that bad? I haven't tried it yet but I want it for Outrun C2C.

6. If I like thick-as BVM-like scanlines what are the optimum scanline settings, or better still, what do both settings actually control?

7. Is there any non-scaling way I can cut off the overscan, particularly on the megadrive and neo geo?
Thanks for any answers.

Picture of my MVS through the mini:


PS. I have already updated to the latest firmware

[Fudoh]

1. You see the same on a CRT. If you can manage to focus on the scanline instead (and not on the background), you'll see that it's steady.

2. yes. Using luma instead is the easiet.

3. certainly not.

5. totally depends on what you're comparing it to, e.g. how good your display can handle 480p on its own.

6. If you're integer scaling factors then you get one setting that controls the density of the actual line while the other options control how the neigbouring lines are affected.

[Shuco13]

Regarding the SHARPNESS option: It's perfectly fine to leave it on 1 since that doesn't do much harm. It's also very beneficial for some sources (e.g. 480p) for removing horizontal shifting. In any case it depends on the input, perhaps also on your Framemeisters's PCB revision.

Hi,

First post in this thread, I have had my mini for ~2 months now and i've settled on a few questions I can't find an answer for:

1. I see ghosting and loss of scanlines when moving vertically (in a vert shmup or a fast horizontal game). Is this my monitor not being fast enough or is it a necessary evil of the framemeister?

What's your input? SYNC setting on AUTO? Are you sure your display doesn't do any additional scaling/stretching.

2. Most of my consoles I've managed to get running perfectly but my RGB modded SNES jr shows a checkerboard pattern on solid colours. How likely is this to be because I use composite video as sync and not pure sync?

Very likely. You could try to improve this though be adjusting/calibrating color and brightness. When I moved from YCBCR to RGB and used higher BRIGHTNESS settings I realized a reduction of checkerboarding for example.

3. Is turning the power off every night while it's on standby bad for the mini?

The mini has a special POWER_ON mode which is made for switching it off by an external switch. I'm using that and haven't had any issues.

4. I'm using my psp 2000 psu to power it (240v power grid here) is this safe and are there any side effects?

Be sure it's feeding 5V and you should be safe. Be aware that it's necessary to provide enough amps to assure flawless functionality (cause of your issues?).

5. Is the 480p component image that bad? I haven't tried it yet but I want it for Outrun C2C.

No, it's not. Most people use the Framemeister brainlessly without setting everything up for their individual sources. Use FBX's profiles as a starting point to set aspect ratio and (sharpness-)scaling to maximize the output. Yet I'm not claiming it to be perfect.

6. If I like thick-as BVM-like scanlines what are the optimum scanline settings, or better still, what do both settings actually control?

austin532 promised to post his new findings for the latest firmware regarding this topic in the near future.

7. Is there any non-scaling way I can cut off the overscan, particularly on the megadrive and neo geo?

Please elaborate on your question and what you are trying to accomplish.

[Soxyboy26]

I recently got a Framemeister, and I think it's great. I'm having a specific problem though.

I have a Pal PS2, which I want to use through the DTerminal input, so 240p, 480i and 480p modes can be used. I want to use the RGB input for my Saturn, so I would really like to use the DTerminal for PS2.

I don't have the component to DTerminal adaptor, so I bought a used PS2 DTerminal Hori lead. Unfortunately this doesn't give a stable image when the PS2 outputs either a 240p or 480i signal. At best it flickers a couple of times a minute, at worst the Framemeister loses the image completely and re syncs, causing a complete dropout for a few seconds. Changing SYNC MODE from Auto to Off doesn't help. SYNC LEVEL is greyed out.

In 480p mode this doesn't happen. When the PS2 is fed into the RGB input this doesn't happen either.

Anyone got any thoughts, or potential solutions?

[austin532]

@Braca862: Also, it's your choice and all, but you should really go and turn SHARPNESS to 0.

Yeah, very first thing I noticed, above the incorrect aspect ratio and scaling, was the over sharpening. I'd definitely recommend turning the TV's sharpness to 0 and the Framemeisters sharpness to either 1 (for 240p) or 0 (for 480i)

The sharpness all depends on what brand of TV the person is using. In this case it looks like he has a Sony WxxxB which is close to mine. The default brightness on those TV's are 50. Setting it to 0 will be way too soft.

[austin532]

6. If I like thick-as BVM-like scanlines what are the optimum scanline settings, or better still, what do both settings actually control?

austin532 promised to post his new findings for the latest firmware regarding this topic in the near future.

Ehh, I don't have a BVM so I have noting to go by but would love to have one someday. I'm sure at least one of the settings will be good enough though.

[Braca862]

You will get much better results if you use 4X or 5X profiles with the Aspect Ratio set to 4:3. These are old games and were not meant to be stretched to fill a 16:9 screen.

What are the 4X and 5X profiles? I've noticed that with the framemeister, the quality of these games look great, even at 16:9, although it is somewhat a different story for the older 3D consoles.

An off-topic question; does this forum supports adding attachments such as attaching pictures directly from the computer?

[austin532]

The 4X and 5X profiles were created by FBX who is a regular on this site. He also goes by the name Firebrandx, The Pixel Purist, and I believe Karbunkle X. Anyways they are integer scaled pixel perfect profiles meaning you are getting the original 320 x 240p image perfectly scaled by 4 or 5 times so it looks nice and crisp on a 1080p TV. Otherwise the image would be very small. He has many more to choose from for multiple systems but those are probably the most well known.

His profiles are higher praised across the net with other purist gamers and he has pretty much given new life to the Framemeister which was already great to begin with.

Check out his website. http://www.firebrandx.com/pixelpurist.html

[Braca862]

Alright, so here's a picture of how the display of the N64 looks like using FBX's N64RGB4S profile I downloaded from his site.

20160521_012153 by Pedro Bracamonte, on Flickr

[Bondy]

1. You see the same on a CRT. If you can manage to focus on the scanline instead (and not on the background), you'll see that it's steady.

So everyone has this problem?

2. yes. Using luma instead is the easiet.

my rgb cable only has the bare minimum of wires so i'll need to get a csync cable anyway

What's your input? SYNC setting on AUTO? Are you sure your display doesn't do any additional scaling/stretching.

I use RGB through the scart to mini adapter (I modified the jp21 one that comes with it) I haven't played with any of the scaling/stretching options. The sync setting is usually on auto as I don't really understand what it does. I'm just using a FHD computer monitor so there shouldn't be any scaling going on.

Be sure it's feeding 5V and you should be safe. Be aware that it's necessary to provide enough amps to assure flawless functionality (cause of your issues?).

It's output is 5v 4000ma

Please elaborate on your question and what you are trying to accomplish.

I want to cut off or blank out all the extra junk around the picture, for exampe the random colours at the bottom of the screen you get with the mega drive, but without scaling the image.

[Shuco13]

What's your input? SYNC setting on AUTO? Are you sure your display doesn't do any additional scaling/stretching.

I use RGB through the scart to mini adapter (I modified the jp21 one that comes with it) I haven't played with any of the scaling/stretching options. The sync setting is usually on auto as I don't really understand what it does. I'm just using a FHD computer monitor so there shouldn't be any scaling going on.

Be sure it's feeding 5V and you should be safe. Be aware that it's necessary to provide enough amps to assure flawless functionality (cause of your issues?).

It's output is 5v 4000ma

I don't see a problem with your setup. Be sure to use PICTURE for progressive- and MOVIE for interlaced sources that could also be a possible pitfall. Your power supply is sufficient for the FM.

Please elaborate on your question and what you are trying to accomplish.

I want to cut off or blank out all the extra junk around the picture, for exampe the random colours at the bottom of the screen you get with the mega drive, but without scaling the image.

The ZOOM_SIZE option is the one you're looking for. OVERSCAN can be used in conjunction with it but makes the picture smaller. You need to find the balance between those two in order to prevent uneven scaling.

[blizzz]

So to summerize 2.03 changes:
2. RGB=RGB output on all inputs, AUTO=YCBCR-output on all inputs
3. Improvements of SVIDEO, COMPOSITE and more (see official changelog)

Can't wait to check the new color reproduction accuracy for RGB input though, Mario green bushes get ready xD

I'm a bit late to the party, but this update is huge imo. The ability to force YCbCr output has been my biggest wish for the Framemeister in the last year and they finally added it! This does indeed mean that the bushes in Super Mario World now display correctly on my TV and capture card. No matter in which order you start your devices or if the game switches between 240p and 480i, the Framemeister stay in YCbCr now.

The Framemeister has just become 100 times more useful to me, unless there's a hidden downside to the update that I haven't seen yet.

[AndehX]

can someone post some screenshots showing the difference between YCbCr and RGB in different games? Im curious as I dont see any difference between them

[blizzz]

Here's one I took ages ago: http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/118554

I might take new screenshots eventually, but I'll probably wait until I have the OSSC here and just do 1-2 days of recording stuff.

[AndehX]

I see. Surely though, theres differences in other games besides Mario World though?

[blizzz]

Any game will have the same difference, it just depends on the amount of bright greens if you notice it. Super Mario 64's garden is one of the best spots to notice the difference. There are also differences in the other colors, but those are harder to spot unless you're comparing screenshots. It also seems to depend on the monitor. On my Dell monitor the RGB output looks fine.

Btw, what exactly does the USB port on the back do? Can you upgrade the firmware with a USB stick?

[Exidna]

Here's one I took ages ago: http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/118554
I might take new screenshots eventually, but I'll probably wait until I have the OSSC here and just do 1-2 days of recording stuff.

Does your capture card have the option to switch the color matrix from BT.709 to BT.601 when capturing RGB?
That should fix the problem instead of having to switch from RGB to YCbCR.

[AndehX]

Here's one I took ages ago: http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/118554
I might take new screenshots eventually, but I'll probably wait until I have the OSSC here and just do 1-2 days of recording stuff.

Does your capture card have the option to switch the color matrix from BT.709 to BT.601 when capturing RGB?
That should fix the problem instead of having to switch from RGB to YCbCR.

Thats a good point. My capture card has that option although I've never had any idea what they are or which one I should use with my Framemeister :/

[TheShadowRunner]

Btw, what exactly does the USB port on the back do? Can you upgrade the firmware with a USB stick?

I believe all it does is mount the mSD slot on your PC.

[blizzz]

Does your capture card have the option to switch the color matrix from BT.709 to BT.601 when capturing RGB?
That should fix the problem instead of having to switch from RGB to YCbCR.

The driver I'm using for the Micomsoft SC-500N1 doesn't have that option. Maybe a newer driver has it?

I can switch between 709 and 601 on my TV, but it doesn't seem do change anything when the Framemeister outputs in RGB mode. Probably because my TV doesn't have to do a conversion for RGB. So even if I could fix RGB on my capture it would look off on my TV. Switching to YCbCr solves it for both devices.

[Elrinth]

anyone have an msx?
I have an FS-A1 and a FS-A1GT. When using the framemeister, the image and volume loudness is perfect on the FS-A1, whilst on the Fs-A1GT, the volume is lower and the graphics is glitching on the Framemeister image. I tried different sync levels, and sync auto without any difference.
There's like white pixels appearing randomly every now and then, and also the whole image flickers sometimes kinda.
I tried two different video cables. Maybe I need a special for the FS-A1GT compared to the FS-A1?

seems it was overheating... dunno why. cuz I'm using same stepdown converter as I use on my FS-A1.

[copy]

Btw, what exactly does the USB port on the back do? Can you upgrade the firmware with a USB stick?

I believe all it does is mount the mSD slot on your PC.

It can also be used as a convenient power source, such as for an external sync stripper.