XRGB-mini Framemeister

[lilralphie]

Hi - new to the forums (first post)! Longtime lurker.

I've tried searching through the threads here and wanted a bit of help hooking up my PS2 to the Framemeister. I've tried official ps2 component cables to d-link input with FBX's optimized settings (thanks so much, BTW!) and it's still noticeably worse than my tv's component input alone with that cable.

Could you describe how it looks worse? If you want super sharp pixels, I can make a profile for that. It's just that most people find the sharp edges look ugly on polygon-based games. And there's also the issue of 480p having false vertical edges on the Framemiester, though I could only confirm this on my PS2 and not my Gamecube for some reason. It's something I may go back and revisit to see if I can catch it happening on my Gamecube.

I don't even know that it's specific to 480p.
Here's a 480i game with the current downloaded preset:
http://i.imgur.com/0IgefjR.jpg

Here's my TV's default input with the same cable:
http://i.imgur.com/qziSnf2.jpg

[soupbones]

I just hooked up my modded MVS Neo Geo to my XRGB Mini for the first time using RGB

you need higher resistors in the RGB lines (if you got any installed at all).

Is that something I can add on to the cables I have? I bought them here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/201274671910

Or do I need new cables?

[Fudoh]

How can you buy a dedidated AES cable when you don't know how your MVS's output is actually configured ?

But to answer the question: yes, just add them on your MVS between the Jamma Edge connector and the actual custom RGB port. Use variable resistors. This way you can adjust them to your needs and to match possibly existing resistors on your cable.

[soupbones]

How can you buy a dedidated AES cable when you don't know how your MVS's output is actually configured ?

But to answer the question: yes, just add them on your MVS between the Jamma Edge connector and the actual custom RGB port. Use variable resistors. This way you can adjust them to your needs and to match possibly existing resistors on your cable.

The MVS unit is actually modded with a Svideo and RGB out - the JAMMA connection was actually never used. I'm connecting the RGB/JPN 21 pin cable (that I linked to in my previous post) from the Neo to my XRGB-mini. I'm obviously not knowledgable is this area, but I was under the impression is was a simple connection between the 2 (like my other consoles hooking up to the XRGB-mini).

Sounds like I need to do some research.

[Fudoh]

The MVS unit is actually modded with a Svideo and RGB out - the JAMMA connection was actually never used

the RGB signal is coming from somewhere. You can trace it back from the RGB connector.

If you feel safer, you can just as well add the resistors to the cable. For starters, why not open up that cable and see what's inside.

[lilralphie]

What is the best way to get the ps2 to output an RGB signal for 480p that the Framemeister will accept well via a SCART connector? I'd love to just have it hooked up via RGB for all signals (240p, 480i, 480p). Eventually I want to send it through superg's 8-1 SCART switch, so I'm trying to end in a SCART connector as opposed to a mini-DIN (I saw a few posts on ways to do that I think). If I understand correctly, the PS2 sends 480p in RGsB like the Dreamcast and extra processing is required (I actually have a Toro for my Dreamcast). But I'm not sure how to get from my PS2 to a SCART input that the Framemeister can accept.

you need a sync stripper and a sync processor to get RGBs on all instances. Dreamcast does output RGBHV in 480p mode, not RGsB.

OK, so here's the current thoughts from a bunch of PMs:

PS2 system
--> PS2 SCART cable
--> SCART to VGA with audio breakout http://www.videogameperfection.com/2014 ... le-review/ or use a sync strike: http://arcadeforge.net/Scaler-and-Strik ... e::15.html
--> Extron RGB 190 http://www.extron.com/product/product.a ... type=1&s=3
--> BNC back to SCART https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/mal ... rter-cable

That will get it back to SCART. Whether it works with the 8-in-1 switch remains to be seen...
Thanks for walking me through it Fudoh!

[FBX]

Hi - new to the forums (first post)! Longtime lurker.

I've tried searching through the threads here and wanted a bit of help hooking up my PS2 to the Framemeister. I've tried official ps2 component cables to d-link input with FBX's optimized settings (thanks so much, BTW!) and it's still noticeably worse than my tv's component input alone with that cable.

Could you describe how it looks worse? If you want super sharp pixels, I can make a profile for that. It's just that most people find the sharp edges look ugly on polygon-based games. And there's also the issue of 480p having false vertical edges on the Framemiester, though I could only confirm this on my PS2 and not my Gamecube for some reason. It's something I may go back and revisit to see if I can catch it happening on my Gamecube.

I don't even know that it's specific to 480p.
Here's a 480i game with the current downloaded preset:
http://i.imgur.com/0IgefjR.jpg

Here's my TV's default input with the same cable:
http://i.imgur.com/qziSnf2.jpg

Well that's a 2D title screen, so it is going to look less defined. The point of the profile was to smooth polygons, which do in fact look better that way. I can go ahead and make sharp profiles for PS2 games, but it will have to be 2x scale to account for the random shift in centering from game to game.

[FBX]

New profiles added:

Code: Select all

PS2SHCIN:  (PS2 Sharp 2x scale Component Interlaced)

This is for the NTSC Sony Playstation 2 console's (both normal and slim versions) default interlaced mode via offical Sony Component video cables. This profile scales the image to 2x and sharply focuses the pixels. Suggested display area: -1


PS2SHCPR:  (PS2 Sharp 2x scale Component Progressive scan)

This is for the NTSC Sony Playstation 2 console's (both normal and slim versions) Progressive Scan mode via offical Sony Component video cables. This profile scales the image to 2x and sharply focuses the pixels. Suggested display area: -1


PS2SWCIN:  (PS2 Sharp 2x scale Widescreen Component Interlaced)

This is for the NTSC Sony Playstation 2 console's (both normal and slim versions) default interlaced mode via offical Sony Component video cables, and is set to 16:9 aspect ratio. This profile scales the image to 2x and sharply focuses the pixels. Suggested display area: -1


PS2SWCPR:  (PS2 Sharp 2x scale Widescreen Component Progressive scan)

This is for the NTSC Sony Playstation 2 console's (both normal and slim versions) Progressive Scan mode via offical Sony Component video cables, and is set to 16:9 aspect ratio. This profile scales the image to 2x and sharply focuses the pixels. Suggested display area: -1

I also edited the Instructions file to list the profile definitions in alphabetical order, and added in a short description of the profile name in parenthesis (as demonstrated above).

Be warned these profiles have borders on the top and bottom since they are scaled to 2x, and are sharp to the point of revealing false contouring on the 480p modes. Cut your eyes out

[lettuce]

FBX, any plans on doing a profile for the original Xbox??

[FBX]

FBX, any plans on doing a profile for the original Xbox??

I could. I have one and a set of component cables. The main reason I haven't is because the Xbox has modes that go up to 1080i on its own. I figured it was likely better to hook it straight up to a display, but if there's really interest in Framemeister profiles, I can make a set.

[lilralphie]

New profiles added:

I also edited the Instructions file to list the profile definitions in alphabetical order, and added in a short description of the profile name in parenthesis (as demonstrated above).

Be warned these profiles have borders on the top and bottom since they are scaled to 2x, and are sharp to the point of revealing false contouring on the 480p modes. Cut your eyes out

Thanks! Why not a 4x upscale? I don't understand the "random shift in centering".

[FBX]

New profiles added:

I also edited the Instructions file to list the profile definitions in alphabetical order, and added in a short description of the profile name in parenthesis (as demonstrated above).

Be warned these profiles have borders on the top and bottom since they are scaled to 2x, and are sharp to the point of revealing false contouring on the 480p modes. Cut your eyes out

Thanks! Why not a 4x upscale? I don't understand the "random shift in centering".

Because 4x 480i or 480p would be 1920 vertical res, and HD is 1080 vertical res. That's why these profiles are called 2x, as in 2 x 480 = 960.

Random shift in centering refers to how each PS2 game uses a different position on the screen to display an image. For example, Silent Hill 2 uses a centering that is shifted well to the bottom, while another game like Tekken 3 does not. I discovered this pretty much by accident when I had made an SSX 3 profile that perfectly aligned the graphics to the edge of my screen. Then when I tried that profile with other games in my PS2 library, it didn't line up at all, and some games were way off (like Silent Hill 2).

[jamisonia]

Does anybody have a good profile for the N64? I've messed around to make it look decent, but wanted to know if someone had something better. Specifically for an RGB modded N64.

[lilralphie]

Because 4x 480i or 480p would be 1920 vertical res, and HD is 1080 vertical res. That's why these profiles are called 2x, as in 2 x 480 = 960.

Random shift in centering refers to how each PS2 game uses a different position on the screen to display an image. For example, Silent Hill 2 uses a centering that is shifted well to the bottom, while another game like Tekken 3 does not. I discovered this pretty much by accident when I had made an SSX 3 profile that perfectly aligned the graphics to the edge of my screen. Then when I tried that profile with other games in my PS2 library, it didn't line up at all, and some games were way off (like Silent Hill 2).

Oh that makes total sense. Thanks!

Does anybody have a good profile for the N64? I've messed around to make it look decent, but wanted to know if someone had something better. Specifically for an RGB modded N64.

I'd be interested in this too!

[FBX]

More profiles added! Also an IMPORTANT new warning in that the Framemeister will ONLY display the first 20 profiles in its menu screen, so you'll need to only put on the microSD card your top 20 most important profiles. This sucks to find this out now when I've got 29 profiles done up to this point.

Anyway, XBOX profiles have been added, and I found the 480p XBOX mode was so crystal clear that the false contouring the Framemeister does on 480p content was blatantly obvious. I'm hoping some day Micomsoft figures this out and can fix it.

I also added in 4:3 aspect-corrected Genesis profiles for those that would prefer them over square pixels (even though most Genesis games didn't account for 4:3 correction). I used Artemio's linearity test pattern from his 240p test suit to perfectly adjust the width until his circles were the same size on both the horizontal and vertical axis.

Code: Select all

GNRGB443:  (Genesis RGB 4x scaled & 4:3 Aspect Corrected)

This for the original NTSC Sega Genesis console and is scaled to 4x the original 224 resolution via an RGB CSync cable, and is aspect-corrected for 4:3 ratio. Suggested display area: -1.


GNRGB543:  (Genesis RGB 5x scaled & 4:3 Aspect Corrected)

This for the original NTSC Sega Genesis console and is scaled to 5x the original 224 resolution via an RGB CSync cable, and is aspect-corrected for 4:3 ratio. Suggested display area: Full Pixel (even at this unscaled screen setting, there will be 4 pixels cropped from the top and bottom of the image).


XBXCOMIN:  (XBOX Component 480i scaled to 2x)

This is for the NTSC original XBOX console and is scaled to 2x the 480i resolution via component cables. Suggested display area: -1


XBXCOMIW:  (XBOX Component 480i scaled to 2x and 16:9 aspect ratio)

This is for the NTSC original XBOX console and is scaled to 2x the 480i resolution via component cables, and is set to 16:9 aspect ratio. Suggested display area: -1


XBXCOMPR:  (XBOX Component 480p scaled to 2x)

This is for the NTSC original XBOX console and is scaled to 2x the 480p resolution via component cables. Suggested display area: -1


XBXCOMPW:  (XBOX Component 480p scaled to 2x and 16:9 aspect ratio)

This is for the NTSC original XBOX console and is scaled to 2x the 480p resolution via component cables, and is set to 16:9 aspect ratio. Suggested display area: -1

[opt2not]

Excellent work FBX. Thank you and keep rocking on!

[jamisonia]

Thanks FBX.

Have you used your F-Zero 16:9 profile on any other WS GCN games? I would think it should be applicable, shouldn't it? Probably Wii ones as well.

[FBX]

Thanks FBX.

Have you used your F-Zero 16:9 profile on any other WS GCN games? I would think it should be applicable, shouldn't it? Probably Wii ones as well.

It's the only widescreen Gamecube game I have, so I really don't know if it works as well for other games of that format. However, if the Gamecube library doesn't have the varying center-timing that the PS2 library does, I would expect the F-Zero GX profile to work just as well for other widescreen 480p games. That would be a lucky break if so, but chances are that it will only be kosher for F-Zero GX specifically.

[jamisonia]

Gotcha,

I'm trying to use your profiles with my Panasonic ST30 Plasma, unfortunately Sony's terms don't seem to translate over perfectly to Panny's. For overscan options I have HD Size 1 and 2. Size 1 is 5% overscan, Size 2 is no overscan. Does Sony's normal correspond to 5% overscan? -1 to 10%?

[FBX]

Gotcha,

I'm trying to use your profiles with my Panasonic ST30 Plasma, unfortunately Sony's terms don't seem to translate over perfectly to Panny's. For overscan options I have HD Size 1 and 2. Size 1 is 5% overscan, Size 2 is no overscan. Does Sony's normal correspond to 5% overscan? -1 to 10%?

My Sony has 3 modes:

"Full Pixel" = all 1080 lines of the source material in view.

"Normal" = Slight overscan (likely 5%)

"-1" = more overscan (likely 10%)

[enigmaxtreme]

I pulled out my PAL Gamecube to give it a whirl on the Meister and using the SCART cable I use for my N64 It resulted in sound by no picture. However, my 50$ Ebay "Scart to HDMI" showed it fine, thoughts?

[FBX]

I pulled out my PAL Gamecube to give it a whirl on the Meister and using the SCART cable I use for my N64 It resulted in sound by no picture. However, my 50$ Ebay "Scart to HDMI" showed it fine, thoughts?

Was your N64 SCART cable meant for RGB? Because I don't believe the Gamecube supports RGB. Just composite and S-Video from that port, and component video from the other larger port the older Gamecubes have.

[Thomago]

PAL Gamecubes support RGB, the N64 however doesn't (at least not natively). I very much doubt the SCART cable in question is even fully wired for RGB.

[FBX]

PAL Gamecubes support RGB, the N64 however doesn't (at least not natively). I very much doubt the SCART cable in question is even fully wired for RGB.

That's probably it then. If he has it going into the RGB port on the Frameiester and the cable is only set for composite video, it's not going to work.

[12345]

Does anybody have a good profile for the N64? I've messed around to make it look decent, but wanted to know if someone had something better. Specifically for an RGB modded N64.

As far as I can remember FBX's SNESRGB profiles work very well with the N64 as long as V_WIDTH is set to 33.

A small OT-question regarding the Gamecube: If you had the choice between 480i and 240p for polygon games, what would you take if you could force it via SWISS?

[hypermuffin]

Has anyone tried hooking up their n64 via S-Video? Just wanted to confirm if the signal hiccup (while the n64 switches between 480i and 240p during games) still happens this way

[Valandil]

Hello everybody! First post in the forums, I have around 1 week with my XRGB mini and I'm totally loving it! It certainly is a fantastic piece of hardware. Playing Final Fantasy VI on that thing is beautiful! Anyway, yesterday I was trying out some PS1/PS2 physical games on a PS2 as well as some PS1/PS2 digital classics on a PS3 and decided to finish up with a playing session of MegaMan X on Wii VC. After turning the mini off, I noticed that the red stand-by light was pulsing slowly instead of staying solid red.

I tried to do some research on internet but couldn't find anything, I also tried looking for a setting in the mini menu that I may have accidentally changed that is affecting this but couldn't find anything either. I also tried "reading" the instructions manual that came with the mini through the google translate app, you can imagine the outcome of that, I failed miserably.

I'm thinking in restoring factory settings of the mini to see if that fixes it but wanted to post in here first and see if any of you guys have had this occurrence in the past that can help me or share more information.

Thanks in advance guys!

[FBX]

Has anyone tried hooking up their n64 via S-Video? Just wanted to confirm if the signal hiccup (while the n64 switches between 480i and 240p during games) still happens this way

That happens with the Framemeister in any system that switches resolutions on-the-fly. For example on the Genesis, Castlevania: Bloodlines makes use of the 256x224 mode intermixed with 320x224 gameplay. Every time it does this, there's a couple seconds of blackout while the Framemeister adjusts to this change.

[TheShadowRunner]

That happens with the Framemeister in any system that switches resolutions on-the-fly. For example on the Genesis, Castlevania: Bloodlines makes use of the 256x224 mode intermixed with 320x224 gameplay. Every time it does this, there's a couple seconds of blackout while the Framemeister adjusts to this change.

Yeah this is probably the mini's biggest (and only?) flaw, takes way too long / too distracting to be usable (those 2-3 seconds of black screen).
In a huge proportion of playstation games, ingame is 240p and menus/interface at 480i, the constant switching is annoying QUICK. Trying the AC3 translation atm and going to hook up the playstation to BVM and be done with psx on the Mini for good.
I wonder if given new hardware 240p<>480i switching could be done on the fly, pseudo-transparently. Fudoh does that exist anywhere?

[lettuce]

FBX, any plans on doing a profile for the original Xbox??

I could. I have one and a set of component cables. The main reason I haven't is because the Xbox has modes that go up to 1080i on its own. I figured it was likely better to hook it straight up to a display, but if there's really interest in Framemeister profiles, I can make a set.

Does the Xbox allow all games to be displayed at 720p/1080i though??...i thought only a handful of games supported that feature?