Reason to clone?

[qmish]

I mean, how much is a point nowodays to make a shmup that doesn't try to do new mechanics or smth, just mostly a reskin of *insert other shmup* with different style/aesthetics/story/whatever? Is it good for practice or any other thoughts behind?

[Ebbo]

It might come down to the fact that making shmups (or any kind of game really) is surprisingly difficult/time-consuming, especially if that game also happens to be your very first project. So it's much easier to follow a well-proven template while adding your own touches instead of going for something more experimental yet potentially daring endeavor.

That being said I do find it interesting that japanese doujin-devs seem to be much more well-versed with implementing outlandish gameplay mechanics in their shmups that don't diminish from the fundamental strengths of the genre. Maybe it's just that they've got way more experience with the genre while western devs often see shmups as the go-to for their first project because hey, it can't be that hard to make one, right?

[qmish]

When i see patterns in Ketsui or Progear, i think you should have Ph.D. in abstract motion geometry or molecular biology to make them

[Shepardus]

It's good practice, and for certain games may signal to fans that it's something they would be interested in trying (e.g. Touhou fangames, Gradius fangames, etc.).

When i see patterns in Ketsui or Progear, i think you should have Ph.D. in abstract motion geometry or molecular biology to make them

The rules behind most patterns aren't as complex as they look, you can derive many with some experimentation and no more than trigonometry-level math.

[Squire Grooktook]

Make a game because there's something you want to exist that doesn't.

If it's a slight alteration of DDP that you want to exist so bad that you're willing to devote 90% of your spare time for several years straight...well I'll say you have shit taste for liking chaining, but if you like the idea that much, go for it.

If you have an idea that's very "different", it'll be even harder to pull off, but at least you're not making a ddp clone...

The rules behind most patterns aren't as complex as they look, you can derive many with some experimentation and no more than trigonometry-level math.

Sine waves are my best friend.

[Despatche]

I mean, how much is a point nowodays to make a shmup that doesn't try to do new mechanics or smth, just mostly a reskin of *insert other shmup* with different style/aesthetics/story/whatever? Is it good for practice or any other thoughts behind?

The problem is that "clone" is kinda relative, and different for everybody. Game genres in general are pretty derivative, yet very rarely are two "similar" games really all that similar. Raiden is a pretty different game from Kyukyoku Tiger, for example.

There are a lot of games that could use a good remake/"sequel", but usually people try to change the game up in really strange ways when they do. Twin Tiger Shark comes to mind...

Making a game based on another game also seems like a pretty good starting point.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

If the developer is someone really creative and bursting with original ideas then they should probably run with it. Some people either aren't that way or they are otherwise convinced that they'll make a better (or more sellable) game by copying virtually everything from a classic, one step away from just porting the game to a new system. I find that very boring.

A lot of ideas can come out late in development. Cave has said in interviews that they have no idea what a final game will be like in early stages of development. So for example a new-to-shooting-games developer might benefit from cloning some ideas at least during early development and then change things up later on, and cloning ideas feels like their only way to get the gears moving.

[Sumez]

I don't see a problem with clones. I'm not sure I can even think of any examples of shmup clones (professional or amateur) that genuinely feel redundant. In fact, many of them are some of the better games, usually either learning from the mistakes of their source of inspiration, or simply possessing some inherent differences that are unavoidable due to being the product of completely different minds.

[Rozyrg]

Make a game because there's something you want to exist that doesn't.

This, full stop.

As for deliberate cloning, chances are you won't be able to your first few tries at making games anyways (points to the digital graveyard of the Yoyo Sandbox where many terrible Mario and Sonic fangames lie.)

Starting off using a few things you know already work is fine of course; but you should put in the time/research to know *why* they work to begin with and also put in the effort to get them right. From there, just go where the path leads you.