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 Post subject: Indie Medieval Shmup: Gryphon Knight Epic
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 8:38 pm 



Joined: 07 May 2014
Posts: 16
Hi fellow gamers,

We are a new and small team called Cyber Rhino Studios who are developing a shump! We want feedback from you guys!

Our project is called Gryphon Knight Epic, and we are focusing on unique boss battles of two distinct kinds (duel like enemies and giant monsters), exploration and crispy gameplay, we also have heavy influence of Megaman and old arcade games. Soon we will have a gameplay trailer and a playable demo to show here :)

You can learn more about the project on our site and facebook;

For now we have some screen shots and concept arts! We would love to hear what you have to say!

And we released a gameplay trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6S8RwdUIqI

And the demo of the game: http://cyberrhinostudios.com/misc/Gryph ... _Build.zip (pls send feedback anytime!! sandro.tomasetti@cyberrhinostudios.com or comment here :D)

And lastly... our Kickstarter campaign... Any help is more than welcome! THANKS: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/86 ... eval-shmup

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Last edited by sandrinus on Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:46 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Indie Medieval Shmup: Gryphon Knight Epic
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 10:56 pm 


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This made me chuckle. I'd be interested to see what you come up with.
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 Post subject: Re: Indie Medieval Shmup: Gryphon Knight Epic
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 12:24 am 



Joined: 21 Aug 2013
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Looks great from the screenshots, can't wait to see some gameplay footage!
Nice blog too. Thanks for sharing.

Would love to feature more about this on our group Shmuproom
Do you have a deviant art account?
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 Post subject: Re: Indie Medieval Shmup: Gryphon Knight Epic
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 6:29 am 


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Welcome to the forum guys! Of course the concepts/artwork look amazingly detailed, fantastic work so far. Looking forward to seeing the game in motion.
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 Post subject: Re: Indie Medieval Shmup: Gryphon Knight Epic
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 8:31 am 


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So you're doing this 100% without day jobs? Impressive.
Good luck with your shump! ;)
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 Post subject: Re: Indie Medieval Shmup: Gryphon Knight Epic
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 11:13 am 


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If some scoring mechanics will exist and the gameplay is arcade-like, I'm totally excited.
Get the demo out soon!
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 Post subject: Re: Indie Medieval Shmup: Gryphon Knight Epic
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 12:35 pm 


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mice wrote:
So you're doing this 100% without day jobs? Impressive.
Good luck with your shump! ;)


I know a guy who does this as well. He works as the only member of his company while his wife has a different job. He used to make tons of fun games but when his first multiplayer game took off he forgot everything else and focused completely on that.
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 Post subject: Re: Indie Medieval Shmup: Gryphon Knight Epic
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 1:35 pm 


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Looks like a lot of fun and I certainly enjoy the craziness (...a Mayan (?) Elf on a Gorilla (?))....yeaaaaah!

It would be great to learn a little bit more about the gameplay mechanics (combo system apparently) and the HUD

...Ghosts'n' Goblins on a Griffin!!!
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 Post subject: Re: Indie Medieval Shmup: Gryphon Knight Epic
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 2:08 pm 



Joined: 07 May 2014
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Hi everyone! Thanks for the compliments and warm welcoming :D

@Lord Satori
Great! If we are making you chuckle we are in the right path! Glad you liked it!

@buko-studios
Thanks! We would love to be featured... we created a deviantart for the company and will post the concepts and screenshots there :D... here is the link - http://cyberrhino.deviantart.com/

@Dave_K.
Thanks for the welcoming! Very soon we will have more to show... vey glad you are looking foward to it!

@Mice
Yes...we ditched all the boring jobs :P but first we gathered some money ahhah Thanks for the best wishes!

@Cagar
We have a scoring mechanic based on combo, the more you kill without being hit the bigger your combo and monye gain (the score will be measured in money gathered)! Glad you are excited...we will post new things as soon as we can :D

@Tafia Tchagata
Damnations! You discovered us... "Ghosts'n' Goblins on a Griffin" hahaha Glad you liked the craziness...we have much more in store!


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 Post subject: Re: Indie Medieval Shmup: Gryphon Knight Epic
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 10:20 pm 


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This game looks adorable! If the gameplay is solid, I'll definitely give this a shot.


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 Post subject: Re: Indie Medieval Shmup: Gryphon Knight Epic
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:21 pm 


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That's some beautiful sprite work. :mrgreen: I like the theme, too, it's not something you see too much of in shmups. Consider my interest piqued.
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 Post subject: Re: Indie Medieval Shmup: Gryphon Knight Epic
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:29 pm 



Joined: 07 May 2014
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@Blackbird
Thanks! We are aiming at a somewhat hard game but with crispy gameplay. We will be very open to the community feedback once we release the demo.

@Rozyrg
Thanks! Yeah, right? How come there's almost no medievla shump? We are here to remedy this :) and I'm glad that made you interested!


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 Post subject: Re: Indie Medieval Shmup: Gryphon Knight Epic
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:10 pm 



Joined: 10 Feb 2014
Posts: 292
This looks really cool. Good luck! & keep us in the loop as the game progresses.


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 Post subject: Re: Indie Medieval Shmup: Gryphon Knight Epic
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 pm 



Joined: 07 May 2014
Posts: 16
@amdiggywhut: Thanks for the kind words! As a matter of fact... I'm here to show you guys our first Gameplay Trailer!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6S8RwdUIqI

Any feedback is HIGHLY appreciated :D The demo will be done very soon!

Once again...Thanks a lot for the support!


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 Post subject: Re: Indie Medieval Shmup: Gryphon Knight Epic
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 3:51 am 



Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 39
sweeeeeet!

The visuals and characterisation are awesome!..
We only wonder if there maybe modes for more advanced players.. a bit more pace and energy?
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 Post subject: Re: Indie Medieval Shmup: Gryphon Knight Epic
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:44 pm 



Joined: 07 May 2014
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Hello all! Sorry for taking long to awnser... we were finishing our demo so we could show you guys some gameplay and not only the video.

Difficulty on the video can be deceiving :)

Pls download the demo and let us know what you guys think of it :D

Just a heads up...we have a main feature missing: We still don't have power-ups.. (but we will have!)

http://cyberrhinostudios.com/misc/Gryph ... _Build.zip

(There is a README file on the .zip that explains comands and gives some cheat codes)

Pls...send any feedback to sandro.tomasetti@cyberrhinostudios.com


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 Post subject: Re: Indie Medieval Shmup: Gryphon Knight Epic
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:39 pm 


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I found the gameplay rather frustrating and unforgiving. The player character feels very underpowered. I don't know if power ups are supposed fix this but both firerate and coverage are just abysmal. Combine that with the screen being littered with waves of small enemies and outcome isn't pretty. The hitbox seems way too large as well and it feels kinda awkward with the way character fires its arrows off-centered.

The mechanics have leaved me a bit puzzled. I understand the character is able to turn but is really supposed to alter the rotation of the screen as well? I didn't see any point flying back to the beginning of the stage. Or is it intended as a way to grind enemies for gold or something? Either way it just seemed unnecessary to me, especially since I accidentally went back to route I once came at the bottom of the waterfall, only to found out I couldn't turn back until I reached the top again.
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 Post subject: Re: Indie Medieval Shmup: Gryphon Knight Epic
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:44 pm 



Joined: 07 May 2014
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Hi Ebbo! Thanks a lot for the feedback...

You are not the first that felt underpowered... we are considering increasing firerate if this feedback is recurrent ... but power-ups and bought upgrades (not implemented yet) will probably fix this.

Hit box is always under revision :) until the end it might decrease...but currently it covers a bit less than the size of the sprite.

About off-center arrows... I think if you play it a bit more this awkardness will disappear. (this probably won't be changed)

Turn back is used as a strategic manuver ... when you want to gain space from enemies, on bosses or on vertical movement. The problem of going up the waterfall is known..we are working on fixing it... (letting you choose if you want to go up or down)

Some questions: Did you reach the boss? Did you find the secret weapon? How many game overs you played before quitting the game?


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 Post subject: Re: Indie Medieval Shmup: Gryphon Knight Epic
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:25 pm 


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I didn't actually encounter game over screen since I accidentally stumbled upon 1up code. I did reach the treant boss and afterwards I tried activating all the switches to enter alternate route. When I finally succeeded, I died almost instantly by the lizardmen's ambush. That's the point when I decided to quit the game... Way too much tedium and long streches of nothing interesting happening and when enemies did show up, I felt too weak to deal with them efficiently. Most of the time I decided to simply ignore enemies that weren't actively aiming at me.

One thing I would also like to mention about the graphical style. While there is certainly a charm to them, sometimes it seems hard to define where I'm able to fly. I needlessly dodged many obstacles only to notice later I can just fly through them. It doesn't help some objects are pretty inconsistent about collision too, for an example the logs with lizard heads block arrows yet you can still fly through them.

Edit: And while I remember this, is there some way to skip dialogue?
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 Post subject: Re: Indie Medieval Shmup: Gryphon Knight Epic
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:47 pm 



Joined: 07 May 2014
Posts: 16
Nice... you got far on the demo :D We will try to fix these downtimes on action (mainly when you are going back)...

About collision... we won't have anything that blocks player movement... and all that has an outline is hittable. But we will try to work further on this feedback. (maybe teaching in the introdutory stage)

Skipping it whole...not yet (will be automaticly skipped on second tries)...today you can fast foward dialog using the auto-shoot button.

Another set of questions: Enjoyed the boss fight? Did you use the C (charge shot) button?

Once again... THANKS a lot for the feedback! Everything is much apreciated!


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 Post subject: Re: Indie Medieval Shmup: Gryphon Knight Epic
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:02 pm 


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I kinda liked how the charge shot pierces through enemies but like the regular shot, its rather narrow range made it hard to use properly. The time it took to charge also felt quite long and I wished there was a better visual indicator showing when it's fully charged.

The boss was a nice change of pace and attacks were well telegraphed, even if some of the animations are a bit twitchy. Ultimately the fight still overstays its welcome. I suggest cutting down the health of those weakspots.
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 Post subject: Re: Indie Medieval Shmup: Gryphon Knight Epic
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:40 pm 



Joined: 07 May 2014
Posts: 16
We are doing a rework on Rate of Fire and Charge shot... see if we can change a bit of this underpowered impression ... will post it soon so you can give another try :D

I've sent you a PM... this way we can comunicate outside the forum if you wish! Thanks man! your help is great!


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 Post subject: Re: Indie Medieval Shmup: Gryphon Knight Epic
PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:40 pm 



Joined: 07 May 2014
Posts: 16
Here's the new build...with shots improvments.. pls let us know what you all think :)

http://cyberrhinostudios.com/misc/Gryph ... _Build.zip


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 Post subject: Re: Indie Medieval Shmup: Gryphon Knight Epic
PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 3:52 pm 


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I gave it a go.

First of all, I had no problem with the player's firepower, so apparently you got that just right.

I did not quite "get" the turnaround button. I would suggest maybe only slowing down the screen scrolling when the player turns around, or that's what I thought in my confusion about that feature until I found out later on that backtracking was encouraged/required. Assuming this is a thing you want to keep, maybe it would work better to remove autoscrolling entirely and let the player fly around at their own pace?

The hitboxes are somewhat hard to grasp. It might be that I'm just used to much smaller player hitbox in most shooters, but I'd like it to be a bit more clear what hits me and where can I be hit. TreeStache's thorn punch was especially hard to understand (btw, I wasn't even mad when it killed me by surprise on my first encounter, because I thought it looked cool enough 8)).

You have pumped a lot of content into this, especially graphics-wise. Looks nice! Needs some polishing, which is very understandable at this point, but there's a particular detail I'd like to mention: the animations. The number of frames in all those sprites' animations is good, but you should pay attention to how long each frame should last. I saw some frames where a character's hand is moving so fast it's just a speedline, but it lasts as long as the frames where the character is in a more calm pose, even though it should be just a flash. I could make a .gif to illustrate my point if you want (or even if you don't, I think this issue is common enough so I might do it anyway).

I think the boss glitched: It started teleporting around and Gronko started twitching bursts of arrows everywhere and then it all just faded away. It was cool while it lasted, though.

That's all I've got right now. Keep it up!
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 Post subject: Re: Indie Medieval Shmup: Gryphon Knight Epic
PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:50 am 


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Location: Frying over a jungle and saving the nature
I played the demo. The concept is very nice and I like that you've implemented a world map. But some initial gripes that kept me from playing for longer than I might have (besides the fact that it's lunchtime :P ):

  • Right away I was faced with a difficult problem: which button do I press to get out of the Options screen? :P Although quite understandably this is just an alpha, but I was hoping I could at least use the mouse to click on stuff in the main menu, or have some prompts telling me which buttons to press to confirm, cancel or exit.

  • The contrast between foreground and background graphics isn't strong enough. On the first stage alone it took me more than 5 seconds to realize there was a line of hummingbirds flying in my direction, and the spear throwing dudes at the waterfall were also hard to spot. Consider improving the contrast of all foreground objects, but especially enemy units and projectiles.

  • On that latter bit, plain white/dark projectiles on a lightly desaturated background is deadly--that's why a lot of enemy projectiles are brightly colored or flash vivid colors. Think Metal Slug's rainbow artillery shells.

  • The turning button feels very clumsy, reminiscent of Capcom's Section Z but somewhat slower if memory serves me correctly. On my first try it got me into trouble at the Waterfall junction with the fast moving waves of hummingbirds attacking from both sides, taking my HP from 90% to 15%. I'll have a lot more to say about this feature later on in terms of exploration and level progression, but for now suffice to say that the Turn button in a fast-paced action game was the very reason Guilty Gear Isuka got panned by most GG fans--it's almost the same reason why having a Block button turns quite a few fighting gamers away from certain titles (Virtua Fighter, I'm looking at you). At least in the re-released Section Z for Capcom Classics Collection you could modify the controls so that you had both a left and right shot button. Consider looking at the old Capcom shooter Side Arms: Hyper Dyne which gave the player left and right shot buttons. On that note, you don't have to tie the "fly left/right" function to the shooting function either if you really want to keep that particular feature.

I'll have more to say later on, but for now:

PROS

+Great "medieval fantasy" concept with potential for world building
+Clean cartoony graphics

CONS

-Lack of contrast between foreground and background objects makes it hard to spot enemies and bullets
-Turn button feature is overall clunky, whether in progression or combat (more on this in another post)
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 Post subject: Re: Indie Medieval Shmup: Gryphon Knight Epic
PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:24 pm 



Joined: 07 May 2014
Posts: 16
Hey guys! First of all! Thanks a LOT for the feedback! These are vey helpful!

@eebrozgi & S20-TBL

- Turn mechanics is becoming a recorrent point of discussion... I would want to ask of S20-TBL to pls play the whole demo and give his toughts again (specially after fighting the bosses)... but nonetheless...it will be revised to cause less confusion. I'll talk to the team to at least test the Side Arms aproach and/or letting the player fly at their own pace. But since the feature is not breaking the game I'll probably push it for a time after the other features are developed.

@eebrozgi

- Hitboxes are in constant revision....will take a look on TreeStache thorn punch! And thanks for the compliment on this attack...it is also one of my favorites in the game :D

- Yeah! lot of content...and it is only 1 of the 6 stages! The GIF would be lovely! I think I understant what you said...but a visual confirmation would definitvly help.

- Damnations! We are aware of the glitch...We just hoped that finisihing the fight early would avoid it... but it seems we were wrong... but we will look deeper into it :)

@S20-TBL

- Button Labels will be implemented :) I don't know if we will do a mouse support for options and menu ...since we are focusing on Gamepad and keyboard... but the labels will be done for the finished product

- Will talk with the artist to see what we can do about it... (to tell the truth...it was the first time someone mentioned this...) everything that is interactable has a black outline... will do further tests on it...Thanks!

- Thanks for the compliments on our concept choice and graphics! We hope to hear from you again!


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 Post subject: Re: Indie Medieval Shmup: Gryphon Knight Epic
PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:00 pm 


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Location: Frying over a jungle and saving the nature
sandrinus wrote:
- Turn mechanics is becoming a recorrent point of discussion... I would want to ask of S20-TBL to pls play the whole demo and give his toughts again (specially after fighting the bosses)... but nonetheless...it will be revised to cause less confusion. I'll talk to the team to at least test the Side Arms aproach and/or letting the player fly at their own pace. But since the feature is not breaking the game I'll probably push it for a time after the other features are developed.


I've played the game past the first boss now. The game really just feels strange with the autoscroll and turn combination you used. I'm all for branching paths and exploration to a certain degree (one reason why Blast Wind feels so much like wasted potential in my book), but I'm with eezbrogi on his suggestion:

eebrozgi wrote:
I did not quite "get" the turnaround button. I would suggest maybe only slowing down the screen scrolling when the player turns around, or that's what I thought in my confusion about that feature until I found out later on that backtracking was encouraged/required. Assuming this is a thing you want to keep, maybe it would work better to remove autoscrolling entirely and let the player fly around at their own pace?


The autoscrolling just slows the backtracking down to a crawl, especially with the section in stage 2 that required you to hit a series of switches. I'd rather just fly over to the spots myself and start completing the objectives instead of waiting for the autoscroll to take me where I want to go; enemy respawns or no, it just makes the whole process slower than it could comfortably be.

Taking out autoscrolling while maintaining the ability to freely fly around and explore would greatly speed things up, because it would let the player control the pacing of the game instead of letting autoscroll do it for him. Check out Irem's Mr. Heli: Battle Chopper (Mr. Heli's Big Adventure) for an example of how this would work. In fact, using this method would allow you to maintain the control scheme you now have and only modify it to do the following:

  • Button 1 is Regular Autofire, can turn while firing
  • Button 2 is Aim Locked Autofire, which locks you in one direction while firing but can still fly around
  • Button 3 is the single shot / charge attack

While we're on the subject of powerups: I noticed that after the first boss, I'm taken directly to Stage 2 with no way of getting to a shop to spend all my cash because frankly, the default shot feels so underpowered especially with all those hummingbirds and pterodactyls flying around. When I attempted to go back to the Map Screen thinking that I needed to do that to buy powerups, I lost all my gold (d'oh). Is there a way to get to a shop in mid-game, or at least get powerups that don't require spending money? (see Capcom's Forgotten Worlds for an example of how both regular powerup items AND a mid-level item shop are used)

sandrinus wrote:
- Will talk with the artist to see what we can do about it... (to tell the truth...it was the first time someone mentioned this...) everything that is interactable has a black outline... will do further tests on it...Thanks!


No problem. :) I only mention it because I made the same mistake initially in my own game. Try looking at how Metal Slug handles enemy projectiles. The first game is probably the cleanest example (later games tend to add a lot of fluff), but you can see how most enemy projectiles--grenades, bullets and tank shells--usually flash orange and blue very rapidly to tell you that it's something you really want to avoid.

Finally, my last suggestion:

Ebbo wrote:
And while I remember this, is there some way to skip dialogue?
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 Post subject: Re: Indie Medieval Shmup: Gryphon Knight Epic
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:45 pm 



Joined: 07 May 2014
Posts: 16
Sorry for wenting silent for a while! We were working on our Kickstarter lauch! We will return to mechanincs discussion in a bit! Meanwhile... any help you guys might offer on our Kickstarter would be VERY appreciated!

Thanks a lot!!

Here is the link: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/86 ... eval-shmup


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