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 Post subject: Papilio [v0.5.2 Early Access, v0.8 IN PROGRESS]
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:43 pm 


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Joined: 18 Jan 2010
Posts: 419
Location: Frying over a jungle and saving the nature
2015-02-02 Update: The Early Access Alpha version 0.5.2 has been updated with bugfixes, along with a new and improved Free Demo! Please visit the itch.io Papilio page for more details!

Video of the previous version's gameplay here (v0.27): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VgHiAe7cIY

New Screenshots:

Image Image Image

Image Image Image

Image Image Image

Special thanks to BPzeBanshee and GMOSSE, shout out to n0rtygames for giving me a shoutout on his Facebook page. :)

Note: this game is aimed to be closer to 80's and 90's hori shmups like Final Mission/S.C.A.T., Forgotten Worlds, Chariot and Gun Hohki than it is to modern danmakus.

Please leave a message here if you come across any glitches or game-breakingly unfair things you find in the game. If you get an in-game error message, an "error.log" file will show up in the game's directory; please paste the contents here or PM it to me.

DEFAULT CONTROLS:

Keyboard Player 1
  • Z: Shoot Left
  • X: Shoot Right
  • C: Use Astra (Bomb)
  • Enter: Pause
  • Up Arrow: Move Up
  • Down Arrow: Move Down
  • Left Arrow: Move Left
  • Right Arrow: Move Right

Keyboard Player 2
  • Q: Shoot Left
  • W: Shoot Right
  • E: Use Astra (Bomb)
  • Enter: Pause
  • I: Move Up
  • K: Move Down
  • J: Move Left
  • L: Move Right

Mouse (either player)
  • Left Button: Shoot Left
  • Right Button: Shoot Right
  • Middle Button: Use Astra (Bomb)
  • Enter: Pause
  • Move Mouse: Move character (character follows cursor)

Joystick (either player)
  • Button 7: Shoot Left
  • Button 8: Shoot Right
  • Button 1: Use Astra (Bomb)
  • Button 10: Pause
  • Stick: Move character

ESC will exit the game automatically and close the application.

UPDATES (Please Read):

  • New game modes (v0.5.2 ONLY) for both 1 and 2 players! RANK OFF MODE disables the dynamic difficulty in favor of a flat stage-based rank increase and lets you play at a more relaxed pace, ASURATVA MODE goes the opposite direction and jacks up the difficulty to maximum from start to finish without letting up, and TRAINING MODE allows you to choose individual stages to practice in and even set the difficulty rank to your liking (note that in the current version, Training Mode allows you to replay all of the available stages. A feature will be added in a later version to unlock each level you manage to reach, even if you don't complete it).

  • New level! Stage 4 takes place in an underground mineral mine located beneath the rainforest in Stage 3. After defeating the giant monsters in the Kaliya Jungle, you chase the mysterious relic thief down a cavern, which turns out to be a crystal mine brimming with untold riches and equally great danger. What dark secrets lie within the bowels of the earth?

  • Increased resolution (400x300), allowing a much better view of the game screen, and also done to address visual cramping issues. This resolution should also make playing the game on 4:3 CRT monitors more amenable.

  • The gem collecting mechanic has been altered. You can no longer hoard more than 1000 gems at a time, but capping your gem stock gives you two benefits: it increases your rate of fire by 25%, and finishing a stage with a maxed out gem stock nets you a Perfect Bonus, which increases per level. In turn, the old "Perfect Bonus" has been renamed to the more appropriate "No Miss Bonus".

  • The end-of-level score tally screen has been modified to include the Perfect Bonus, as well as display your current total score instead of simply showing the total bonus for the current stage.

KNOWN ISSUES:

  • In 2 Player mode, a minor bug may happen at the end of Stage 1 while fighting the boss if your camera is positioned too low during the forced autoscroll section before the fight, causing it to get temporarily stuck and not scroll upwards with your movement. You can remedy this simply by having both players fly straight up until the camera normalizes, or by circling around the center of the screen for a while before flying up. Thankfully this glitch is rare and easily fixed.

  • The Frost and Flame Wisps sometimes don't reposition themselves accordingly when you switch firing directions. This may be due to how the button press mechanics for left-and-right shooting are implemented. It's kinda useful though, so I might give this one the Street Fighter II combo treatment. :P

  • The Gale Wisp is sometimes erratic in its behavior, particularly at the start of a level. Adjustments are still ongoing.

  • 2 Player mode may need more testing in light of the recent Doubleplay mechanics. Please give me a heads up if you spot anything weird; screenshots would be greatly appreciated.

  • The Stage 2 EX boss sometimes has a minor graphical glitch when he flies to the left. I have attempted a fix, but please notify me if it still persists.

  • The new weapons and especially the Bombs are as of yet quite untried and may be unbalanced. Feedback on them is highly appreciated.

TO DO LIST:

  • Create assets for the last 4 stages, then work on Stage 5.

  • Study possible porting onto Game Maker Studio in order to take advantage of its features.


Spoiler: show
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Last edited by S20-TBL on Sat Apr 09, 2016 3:33 pm, edited 37 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Papilio [WIP]
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:15 pm 


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Your music is fine, but frankly I don't think there needs to be a "Hard Mode" - it's damn hard enough as it is. Also, Frost Wisp's Fire thing (I take it that's the Offense) seems to be the only thing that actually does anything timely and with some power distribution among the other types probably wouldn't be nearly as OP as it would seem.

I must say though that it's a hell of a lot more balanced than the early prototype I saw, so this much is good.

As for your issue with Vista and that, I'm not sure what could possibly be the go there as I've never had such an issue, but I would check the DLLs you are using. DLL Extensions for Game Maker have been known to play up on certain machines (for example GMBinFile.dll).

Also, in regards to your Escape key issue, it didn't even work for me. It just resumes the game and doesn't restart or anything. I suspect this is possibly due to the use of exact ASCII codes or however it is you're doing it - the computer I tested it that gave me this result was my iMac running Windows XP so the backspace button is "Delete" and probably got a different code from the norm.

Finally, your choice in convention is a very refreshing choice indeed. I've had the fortune to have actually played a real cabinet of Chariot (Three Wonders) and it is a very good piece of work, though I swear that there's probably more things here fitting with Narnia than Chariot or most popular obstacle-based games I'm aware of (not a bad thing, I watched Voyage Of The Dawntreader the other day and it seemed very similar to BBC's version so I figured it was a very good adaptation).

Good luck with Papilio S20. If this gets finished and is of appropriate quality I'd certainly pay money for this.
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 Post subject: Re: Papilio [WIP]
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:35 am 


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BPzeBanshee wrote:
...frankly I don't think there needs to be a "Hard Mode" - it's damn hard enough as it is. Also, Frost Wisp's Fire thing (I take it that's the Offense) seems to be the only thing that actually does anything timely and with some power distribution among the other types probably wouldn't be nearly as OP as it would seem.


Hmm, interesting. I think buffing the lower-level shots would definitely help.

BPzeBanshee wrote:
As for your issue with Vista and that, I'm not sure what could possibly be the go there as I've never had such an issue, but I would check the DLLs you are using. DLL Extensions for Game Maker have been known to play up on certain machines (for example GMBinFile.dll).


This too. I saw that SuperSound has an extension version, so I might pick that up instead of the DLL. I've tested some of the others but I think the culprit could also be the un-implemented highscore table script I'm using. Anyway, I'll check to see if there are extensions of the DLLs I'm using and have the Vista users I know test the game again.

BPzeBanshee wrote:
Also, in regards to your Escape key issue, it didn't even work for me. It just resumes the game and doesn't restart or anything. I suspect this is possibly due to the use of exact ASCII codes or however it is you're doing it - the computer I tested it that gave me this result was my iMac running Windows XP so the backspace button is "Delete" and probably got a different code from the norm.


This is certainly odd. I'll have a few others test this too...on my computer the game just freezes if you Backspace while the game is switching rooms. I'll try inserting some code in there to interrupt the room switching parameters and see what happens.

BPzeBanshee wrote:
Finally, your choice in convention is a very refreshing choice indeed. I've had the fortune to have actually played a real cabinet of Chariot (Three Wonders) and it is a very good piece of work, though I swear that there's probably more things here fitting with Narnia than Chariot or most popular obstacle-based games I'm aware of (not a bad thing, I watched Voyage Of The Dawntreader the other day and it seemed very similar to BBC's version so I figured it was a very good adaptation).


Lolz, I wasn't even thinking of Narnia with this game... XD And yeah, Chariot's a good game, even if the rank system hangs you up by your ankles on Stage 2 alone (stupid turret spawns). Shows you don't need tons of pink Pepto-Bismol pills onscreen to make a nice, challenging shmup. :mrgreen:

Anyway, thanks for the feedback. :) I'll see about the weapon re-balances and bugs; currently I'm working on finishing Stage 3 and putting in the boss.
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 Post subject: Re: Papilio [v0.22b WIP]
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:05 pm 


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Updated the file, found a few bugs which needed urgent fixing.

You can download the latest version here: Papilio v0.22b demo

CHANGELOG (07-31-2011):

  • Fixed the mouseover problem in all menus (Main, Settings, Manual and Wisp Selection). You can now use the Up and Down keys to navigate the menus even if the mouse pointer happens to be on top of a menu entry.

  • Fixed a bug which causes the game to crash when both players die in 2 player mode.

  • Rebalanced enemy firing frequency and patterns. All yellow popcorn enemies in Stage 1 will no longer fire at you, though the purple drones' Slowing projectile has now been replaced with a lethal shot, and the ground enemies' Weaken projectile has been replaced with Slowing. A similar action has been taken in Stage 2, in which the first two waves of falcons will no longer fire at the player, while the rest of the waves have falcons that only fire every other spawn. This is to address testers' complaints that the game became too hard early on and at certain intervals, though my plan is to re-implement and intensify their ability to fire in a planned Hard Mode.

  • Fixed an issue with mouse-controlled players getting stuck in solid objects, including the giant serpents in Stage 2, though the fix isn't foolproof yet. This issue still needs more testing and tweaks.

  • Successfully removed the Restart button freeze for the most part, although it can still occur rarely. It appears that resetting the game with Backspace conflicted with the custom fade-in and fade-out effects. Please note if this still happens.

  • Disabled the Stage 1 BGM from playing during the Continue screen should you get a Game Over in the first level.

  • Replaced the SuperSound DLL with the Extension version, removing the need for loading the DLL. Also implemented additional DLL unloading measures on game exit which should deal with the Vista memory clogging problem. Still needs testing, however.

  • Buffed the Level 1 and Level 3 Flame Wisp + Offense/Fire powerup and the Level 1 Zephyr Wisp + Defense/Ice powerup combos for increased damage and/or firing rates.
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 Post subject: Re: Papilio [v0.22b WIP]
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:42 am 


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The game feels more balanced out by each release!

Although I did notice that the weapons of the second choice in the middle (I forgot what it was called) seemed considerably weaker than the other two, I suppose it makes sense considering that's the fast option out of the lot.

I once saw in your pre-alpha what appeared to be a forest for a third stage. How's that going? It looked quite interesting.
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 Post subject: Re: Papilio [v0.22b WIP]
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 8:02 am 


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BPzeBanshee wrote:
Although I did notice that the weapons of the second choice in the middle (I forgot what it was called) seemed considerably weaker than the other two, I suppose it makes sense considering that's the fast option out of the lot.

Yep, the Flame Wisp weapons were designed to be the weakest since with that Wisp, you can fly circles around everything. However, you have a point--they do feel quite underpowered, especially the Defensive version (the blue Ice powerup). I plan to change the shrapnel shots with a homing shot to emphasize the "crowd control" aspect of the blue powerup, though--the shrapnel isn't nearly doing its thing except making the weapon more effective against small- and mid-sized single targets.

BPzeBanshee wrote:
I once saw in your pre-alpha what appeared to be a forest for a third stage. How's that going? It looked quite interesting.

You mean this one?

Image

Yep, it's being worked on right now, and most of the background tiles are actually finished (except for some alternate river and waterfall graphics), though I'm in a bit of a rut as to the bosses. I've already got one designed and ready to implement, but I'm debating myself as to whether I should put in an alternate boss in the level if you happen to find the alternate path. 7 new enemy types will be found in that level too (with 3 already coded thanks to Alluro's shmupsnake.gmk example--hint, hint).
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 Post subject: Re: Papilio [v0.22b WIP]
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 8:47 am 


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It might just be me, but the game feels a bit cramped, with big enemies and huge enemy shots, personally I'd like at least the enemy shots to be smaller, but it might just be me.
Also, with the huge vertical panning, there's a constant risk of snipers appearing not only from behind, but also from the top or bottom of the screen, especially on stage 2. I have enemies ramming into me quite a lot, and it also feels like shots can appear from anywhere at any time.

Apart from that, I think the game is really well balanced and fun to play, with some well functioning bullet patterns and enemy formations, and really well designed boss patterns!
The presentation is really excellent, I think the graphics are beautiful and give a great sense of atmosphere, and the music fits.

If I were you I'd cut down those fadeouts from the menu and game over screens, making them much shorter. The more you sit with the game, the more annoying it gets to wait for the screen to fade into black every time you make a choice. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Papilio [v0.22b WIP]
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 5:14 am 


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Sumez wrote:
It might just be me, but the game feels a bit cramped, with big enemies and huge enemy shots, personally I'd like at least the enemy shots to be smaller, but it might just be me.

It's just you. Some parts of stage 2 are indeed cramped but that's evidently intended (for example the dragons).

Plus Cave games cramp the player all the time. What's wrong with that? :P
Sumez wrote:
Also, with the huge vertical panning, there's a constant risk of snipers appearing not only from behind, but also from the top or bottom of the screen, especially on stage 2. I have enemies ramming into me quite a lot, and it also feels like shots can appear from anywhere at any time.

You're not entirely wrong there, but it doesn't help that the panning is slightly bugged in some parts (end of stage 1 as you go up the steps). A warning signal could solve this but the fact that you can shoot in two directions should tell you that enemies are going to come from both directions.

Do keep in mind that part of this game is meant to be more along the lines of older games such as R-Type or even Galaga where you should be more worried about the enemies colliding into you than their bullets. There is however some more balancing work which is required for the game in terms of small tweaks but these should be addressed sometime soon anyway so it's probably a non-issue.

Sumez wrote:
If I were you I'd cut down those fadeouts from the menu and game over screens, making them much shorter. The more you sit with the game, the more annoying it gets to wait for the screen to fade into black every time you make a choice. :)

I wouldn't make them too much shorter myself (GMOSSE's transition effects excluding load times are only about 1 second tops, loading times included can actually be quite long), but they are somewhat dragging on in this case. I suggest a reduction by about 1 second at the most, or adding a Game Over screen allowing the option to either retry with the character and wisp you've already selected or go back to the main menu. That way you can get back into the game quicker.
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 Post subject: Re: Papilio [v0.22b WIP]
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 2:08 pm 


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@Sumez:

Thanks for the feedback! :) Regarding the game feeling cramped, I'm getting the impression that's why other testers found the game a bit too hard as well. One solution was to lessen the amount of projectiles being thrown at you early in the game, which helped, but this time the issue might be a matter of proper asset scaling and enemy distribution. I'm going to try scaling down the graphics used for certain enemies and bullets and balance out the number of enemies being spawned in a future release, though for now my priority will be to finish Stage 3 before the end of the month.

Although, BPZeBanshee is right--part of the difficulty of the game is the risk of enemies running into you. Still, it won't hurt to try out a few solutions.

Regarding the panning: I'll try out a few solutions regarding snipers and enemies appearing out of nowhere. I had once attempted to solve the sniping issue by issuing an offscreen deadzone where all enemies' ability to fire would be disabled if they're outside the view, but it didn't work since I fudged that one up--I could try re-implementing a better method though. I *could* also try to reduce the size of the panning, or re-code the camera to work more like Einhander's cam instead of Thunder Force IV's (to be honest I'm not at all satisfied with how it is now).

@BPZeBanshee:
BPzeBanshee wrote:
You're not entirely wrong there, but it doesn't help that the panning is slightly bugged in some parts (end of stage 1 as you go up the steps).

The panning is disabled once you reach the foot of the stairs, at which point the camera auto-scrolls diagonally upwards. There is a minor bug here though: if you're nowhere near the top of the screen and the viewport reaches the upper edge of the game room before you reach the top of the stairs, your character will still be automatically following the intended scrolling direction if you let go of the joystick/arrow keys/mouse for a bit. This is a glitch related to how the in-game camera works, but still needs to be fixed, especially in Stage 3.

BPzeBanshee wrote:
A warning signal could solve this but the fact that you can shoot in two directions should tell you that enemies are going to come from both directions.

I'll see if I can do this one; some portions like the parts of Stage 2 with the pathed baddies, the flying spiked turtles and the dragons seem to be problematic without them, due to how fast they appear.

Lastly, I cut the level/room fade-to-black time by half, giving it a similar duration as the fade-in. :D

One of the plans for the game is one of those "How to Play" intro sections where the actual gameplay is demonstrated. GM does have the option to simulate keypresses, though right now I'm still trying to wrap my head around how that can be done without borking the way the characters function. Before that happens, I'm finishing up the content for the final demo release before I start pushing for the commercial version.
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 Post subject: Re: Papilio [v0.252 WIP]
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:12 pm 


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Latest version: Papilio v0.252 demo

Please visit the first post for all new screenshots. Now. Or my friend will shoot. 8)

Don't forget to post any bugs you see in here, or PM me about it. If the game calls up an error message that is NOT a Windows-related error, please copy and paste the contents here or in PM and send it to me.

UPDATES (2011-11-17):

  • Tooltips added to most menus.

  • Pausing the game now opens up a menu where you can toggle BGM/SFX volume, Fullscreen Mode and Hitbox visibility.

  • Major graphical overhaul. Almost all enemy sprites have been redrawn and re-animated from scratch. Most backgrounds have been recolored to allow for better visibility. New attack types and special effects added, particularly to the Stage 2 boss area.

  • Finally fixed an issue with mouse-controlled players getting stuck in solid objects.

  • Replaced the Stage 1 BGM. I hated it. So much.

  • The game process no longer lingers in the system memory on exit for Vista users.

  • Rebalanced most enemy wave patterns and aggressiveness to allow for a more forgiving learning curve.

  • Added Warning signals to indicate the general direction a wave of enemies will be coming from. Still in testing phase, and rather incomplete.

  • Several bosses tweaked to address collision detection issues.

  • Weapons have been generally buffed, except for the overpowered Frost Wisp + Fire Weapon combo (burst shot) which has finally been nerfed correctly.

  • The Shrapnel Shot (Flame Wisp + Ice Weapon combo) has been replaced with the Homing Shot. Which "suspiciously" looks like the Hunter. Gee, I wonder why. ;)

  • Manual updated for better readability and to include the new Warning mechanic.

KNOWN ISSUES:

  • The Frost and Flame Wisps sometimes don't reposition themselves accordingly when you switch firing directions. This may be due to how the button press mechanics for left-and-right shooting are implemented. It's kinda useful though, so I might give this one the Street Fighter II combo treatment. :P

  • If you defeat Qi'Lin (the second boss), start a new game from the beginning and get to the second boss again, his second phase may cause some sounds to loop indefinitely, causing the game to freeze after a minute or two. Though I have already implemented a fix, I am still currently investigating this issue to see if it will still recur or not.

  • Lots of funky things happen in 2-player mode, especially enemy targeting. This is because I have few other people to test 2 player mode. I have yet to fix these issues.
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 Post subject: Re: Papilio [v0.252 WIP]
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:13 pm 


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I'm honestly floored. All I can say is.... that is some truly stellar work, man! :shock:
Backgrounds, enemy designs, effects, music... I love it all! It's all very smooth and fun to play too! :mrgreen:

Strangely, it reminds me of games by doujin dev SPRITE, which I always really liked despite the fact they had many 'borrowed' graphics.
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 Post subject: Re: Papilio [v0.252 WIP]
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:57 pm 


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Just had a look at the video, this looks great!
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 Post subject: Re: Papilio [v0.252 WIP]
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:55 am 


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@Rozyrg: Thanks man. Coming from a seasoned pixel-pusher like you, that really made my day. :D

Funny you should bring Sprite up, though. I based some of my explosion effects on the Zugya DX bomb--which, in turn, ripped it from Recca...

@Emphatic: Thanks! :) In all fairness, however, I really need to replace that video; it's outdated and I really hate the old Stage 1 placeholder BGM--not to mention the "confirm selection" sound effect (shudder). Heck, after I found out that people from Japan actually *watch* the video, I figure I should now take steps to not let it become a subject of much ridicule on a random image board somewhere. ;) BTW, I sent you a YT friend request, if it's OK with you. =D

2011-11-18 UPDATE: I found a minor bug among several major ones. This link features a small fix to the Pause menu: unpausing the game with Enter will no longer leave the navigation tooltip floating happily in midair and blocking your view.

Papilio v0.252.1 Hotfixed

The next build will seek to address several enemy targeting mistakes and other issues in 2-player mode, as well as an improvement to the Warning mechanic. Now if only I could wrap my head around saving ds_list arrays so I can store high scores...
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 Post subject: Re: Papilio [v0.252 WIP]
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:10 am 


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Holy shit, this is beautiful. :o :D

You weren't kidding about every last detail being redrawn, I couldn't believe you topped what you had but now it looks even more beautiful.
EDIT: In fact, the graphics are so pretty even my Bootcamp Mac is having issues running this. How are you doing the lasers, stretch a line with it's image_xscale to the view and add balls to make it look like it's a moving laser? Certainly it seems to drop the framerate slightly.
Also what's with the spinning disc bullets for follow type that slow down and stay slowed down after losing contact with an enemy? Wouldn't it make more sense for it to speed up again till it goes offscreen? Speaking of weapons, you really did nerf the angled fire shot eh? I found that useless starting stage 2 where it wasn't packing enough power to wipe out the stuff in the upper-sky alternate section of the level. The ice equivalent for it on the other hand was quite good at getting rid of lots of enemies.

ds_list arrays to a file you say? Have a look at the input replay example I came up with in the GMOSSE thread, that uses ds_queues of which the code I examined to get the idea for that was actually a ds_list to begin with. I imagine that'll do the trick for you to save/get high scores in the form of a file.
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 Post subject: Re: Papilio [v0.252 WIP]
PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:26 pm 


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BPzeBanshee wrote:
EDIT: In fact, the graphics are so pretty even my Bootcamp Mac is having issues running this. How are you doing the lasers, stretch a line with it's image_xscale to the view and add balls to make it look like it's a moving laser? Certainly it seems to drop the framerate slightly.

My bad, it does drop the framerate slightly because each Eye Turtle produces a whole lot of unnecessary objects while firing the laser. I've addressed it now, hopefully it fixes things. As for the energy balls, they're the actual projectiles--I just coded the entire sequence so that it looks like the Nova Skeleton energy beam from Castlevania SotN.

As for the beam, it's actually a stretched sprite with a corresponding collision_line script that allows you to rotate the stretched sprite every which way and still hit any specified object or surface with pixel-perfect precision. The tutorial and download can be found here. I just disabled the collision_line scripting for now since the way the player characters' hit detection is coded makes the beam kill them AND take out all of their spare lives in one hit (I will definitely need to fix this).
BPzeBanshee wrote:
Also what's with the spinning disc bullets for follow type that slow down and stay slowed down after losing contact with an enemy? Wouldn't it make more sense for it to speed up again till it goes offscreen?

I tried this before, but couldn't get it to work. It's working properly as of this writing (funny how a 2 month hiatus can really refresh your mental acuity).
BPzeBanshee wrote:
Speaking of weapons, you really did nerf the angled fire shot eh? I found that useless starting stage 2 where it wasn't packing enough power to wipe out the stuff in the upper-sky alternate section of the level. The ice equivalent for it on the other hand was quite good at getting rid of lots of enemies.

It was nerfed because of a strange collision issue where a single fireball could potentially take out tons of enemy HP in a single hit (one fireball used to be enough to kill one of the midsized enemies). I managed to locate the error, fix it and reduce the damage, but now I'm afraid I may have gone a bit too far.
BPzeBanshee wrote:
ds_list arrays to a file you say? Have a look at the input replay example I came up with in the GMOSSE thread, that uses ds_queues of which the code I examined to get the idea for that was actually a ds_list to begin with. I imagine that'll do the trick for you to save/get high scores in the form of a file.

Thanks, I'm actually surprised AND pleased you got it to work. :D I remember having the same file you originally referenced from long ago (the "HD Replay" script), but I discarded it after discovering that it didn't do what it claimed to do. That's a lot of good, hard work you put in there, kudos man. 8)

On my end I've managed to deal with and fix most of the enemy targeting issues for 2 Player Mode, as well as the point icon attraction for the same. However I will need to update all the Warning signs to make it clear that they mean "ENEMY APPROACHING FROM THIS SIDE" and not "YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO DO WHATEVER IT IS YOU'RE DOING RIGHT NOW, HERP DERP". Also need to redraw all the point and powerup icons to look like...well, point and powerup icons. It was morbidly funny for me to realize some of my testers tried to dodge them thinking they were bullets, but that's got to stop.
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 Post subject: Re: Papilio [v0.252 WIP]
PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:41 pm 


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Very nice designs! You didn't create a game, you created a convincing world. And pretty polished for a WIP! :wink: Music is awesome too.

Some tips to make your game cab friendly:
- use "Z" (or your programmed A button) as an alternate to enter key for all menus
- default menu selections should be "Start Game" and "1 Player" (two button hits and I'm playing)

As mentioned, the gameplay still needs tweaking (like those cheap swooping bird things in level 2), keep up the good work!

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 Post subject: Re: Papilio [v0.252 WIP]
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:41 am 


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S20-TBL wrote:
BPzeBanshee wrote:
ds_list arrays to a file you say? Have a look at the input replay example I came up with in the GMOSSE thread, that uses ds_queues of which the code I examined to get the idea for that was actually a ds_list to begin with. I imagine that'll do the trick for you to save/get high scores in the form of a file.

Thanks, I'm actually surprised AND pleased you got it to work. :D I remember having the same file you originally referenced from long ago (the "HD Replay" script), but I discarded it after discovering that it didn't do what it claimed to do. That's a lot of good, hard work you put in there, kudos man. 8)

Actually, the only thing I took from anywhere when making the input replay example was Hello Engine 5's save script (Yoyogame's thread on replays from files is a lot of talk from idiots who can't read and people who've come up with a solution but no working downloads) which was basically just the code that saves strings to text which if I had realised existed I would've done myself, the rest was just logical progression of my own coding + the movement script that Nimitz originally implemented into GMOSSE after MK-III. I would've gotten it to work sooner had I realised you're supposed to put file_text_writeln after each writing of strings. :P The main problem I'm having with it now is that Arxtyan (the fifth ship) isn't doing its runs properly for reasons unknown which is really frustrating me.

Quote:
My bad, it does drop the framerate slightly because each Eye Turtle produces a whole lot of unnecessary objects while firing the laser. I've addressed it now, hopefully it fixes things. As for the energy balls, they're the actual projectiles--I just coded the entire sequence so that it looks like the Nova Skeleton energy beam from Castlevania SotN.

As for the beam, it's actually a stretched sprite with a corresponding collision_line script that allows you to rotate the stretched sprite every which way and still hit any specified object or surface with pixel-perfect precision. The tutorial and download can be found here. I just disabled the collision_line scripting for now since the way the player characters' hit detection is coded makes the beam kill them AND take out all of their spare lives in one hit (I will definitely need to fix this).

Ah, the stretched sprite + instant hit trick. I was hoping it'd be something that could more accurately make lasers like how Cave does but that seems like the best method and only way to go.
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 Post subject: Re: Papilio [v0.252 WIP]
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 10:17 am 


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Dave_K. wrote:
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 Post subject: Re: Papilio [v0.252 WIP]
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:52 am 


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BPzeBanshee wrote:
Ah, the stretched sprite + instant hit trick. I was hoping it'd be something that could more accurately make lasers like how Cave does but that seems like the best method and only way to go.

Currently on my research plate. I've come up with an awesome looking glowy laser once, but it slows down the entire game like fershluggin' molasses due to the number of primitives blended to draw the glow effect per step. Maybe there's a way to draw portions of an animated sprite over a steadily increasing rectangular surface controlled by a "laser tip" object. I'm working based on that logic.

By the way, I think I've managed to find a way to create randomized Konami-like explosions (think Hard Corps) and aimed bullet line attacks which can be tweaked for a multiplayer game. Might put them in GMOSSE if it's OK with you.

Dave_K. wrote:
Some tips to make your game cab friendly:
- use "X" (or your programmed A button) as an alternate to enter key for all menus
- default menu selections should be "Start Game" and "1 Player" (two button hits and I'm playing)

My bad, I forgot about the fact that the button used to confirm selections should be applicable to control pads and joysticks. Fixed as of this writing. :D

As for the default menu selections, they actually are on "Start Game" and "1 Player", but if your mouse pointer happens to hover over one of the other menu selections on startup, it will automatically highlight that instead, just as you described. I'm currently investigating possible solutions to this problem as it really isn't user friendly.

Dave_K. wrote:
As mentioned, the gameplay still needs tweaking (like those cheap swooping bird things in level 2), keep up the good work!

Thanks! Stage 2 does need more tweaks, especially in the @#$% second half.

Dave_K. wrote:
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Papilio [v0.252 WIP]
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:30 am 


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S20-TBL wrote:
BPzeBanshee wrote:
Ah, the stretched sprite + instant hit trick. I was hoping it'd be something that could more accurately make lasers like how Cave does but that seems like the best method and only way to go.

Currently on my research plate. I've come up with an awesome looking glowy laser once, but it slows down the entire game like fershluggin' molasses due to the number of primitives blended to draw the glow effect per step. Maybe there's a way to draw portions of an animated sprite over a steadily increasing rectangular surface controlled by a "laser tip" object. I'm working based on that logic.

By the way, I think I've managed to find a way to create randomized Konami-like explosions (think Hard Corps) and aimed bullet line attacks which can be tweaked for a multiplayer game. Might put them in GMOSSE if it's OK with you.

This Hard Corps? Sounds good! I can send you the current source material if you want - maybe another set of eyes might help find the source of Arxtyan's input desyncs? :P

Definitely let me know how the laser tip idea goes. Rozyrg came up with something like it for Flying V relatively recently but he's had several issues with it and as far as I can tell it still uses a stretched sprite + collision detection issues. Haven't gotten around to trying the code he posted though.

Also, I'm starting to think it's not the Type A's (I'm sorry, I forget what each wisps are called so I just go by the position on the menu - in this case the leftmost one) fire bullets that are weak but the second part of Stage 2 being bullshit. Going the upper sky route is suicide and the dragons and their eyeball bits take ages even with that weapon of choice, and is also suicide if it weren't for the topmost part of the screen actually being manageable. :P
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 Post subject: Re: Papilio [v0.252 WIP]
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:13 am 


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Lol yes, that Hard Corps*. I was always intrigued by how they did the explosions, and way I see it it's actually pretty simple for-do loops. As for the build, you can PM me the link. :)

*I've seen the new one by ArcSy...looks fun but the (unnecessary) English voice acting reminded me of Tales of Eternia. It's like the heroes are completely bored out of their minds. I'll take Brownie's digitized "Let's party!" and even the hilariously bad Japanese voiceovers in Contra ReBirth over that any time.
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 Post subject: Re: Papilio [v0.252 WIP]
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:45 am 


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PM sent. ;)

On first Google Search I found Hard Corps 2: Uprising which looked pretty bland. I'm actually not that familiar with run and gun games but I've heard good things about the Contra series so I'll definitely run this Megadrive title in an emulator sometime. (when I'm not playing Papilio, of course) :)

No MSN I presume?
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 Post subject: Re: Papilio [v0.252 WIP]
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:00 pm 


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HOLY CRAP! :shock:

Where was I when this game was in development??

This shmup is incredible-from the bullet patterns to the artwork-you, my friend, have crafted a fine piece art. :mrgreen:
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 Post subject: Re: Papilio [v0.252 WIP]
PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:43 pm 


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Dropping by quickly to let people know I'm not dead yet...and neither is this game. Real life just bites hard financially, is all.

Papilio v0.28 has continued development, and I'm nearly finished on Stage 3. However there are many quality of life changes which were made out of necessity after running some playtesting, so here goes the changes.

New Green Wisp Mechanics

ImageImage

The green wisps now revolve around your character in opposite directions. Moving around will adjust their position and angle of fire, and shooting will lock them in place. Still tricky to use, but not as problematic or annoying as the old Gradius-style version (which also caused enemy homing bullets to spaz out somehow).

Bombs

ImageImageImage
ImageImage

Once you've collected 75 or more green gems, you can spend them on a Bomb. Each Wisp and shot type has its own Bomb attack. I'm still missing one more.

Force Field

Image

I took a page out of Area 88 / U.N. Squadron and gave the player character a personal force field that absorbs 1 hit. It will grant you temporary invulnerability (2 seconds) afterwards, but must recharge for 8 seconds, during which you can be hit and lose a life. The dotted line on the right is a rotary timer which tells you how long before the force field goes back up again.

@BPzeBanshee: I'm still using GM8.1. GM Studio was a major headache as far as porting this game was concerned, leading to having to edit the source file using Notepad and the compiler returning more than a hundred unspecified errors when I attempted to run it. I was thinking of asking you for help but in the interim I was away, YouTube began doing their crazy crap changing how PM'ing works.
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 Post subject: Re: Papilio [v0.252 WIP]
PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:51 pm 


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This looks fucking awesome!!

y u no finish?!

Thank you for stopping by again, there's a lot of absolute gems in this sub forum that just get forgotten due to lack of updates. Really hope this one makes it to the final build!
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 Post subject: Re: Papilio [v0.252 WIP]
PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:28 pm 


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n0rtygames wrote:
This looks fucking awesome!!

y u no finish?!

Thank you for stopping by again, there's a lot of absolute gems in this sub forum that just get forgotten due to lack of updates. Really hope this one makes it to the final build!


Thanks as well.

Re: not finishing it as early as I should have, sometime in late 2011 my job savings started getting low. I did a few updates in 2012 but had to do some freelancing and eventually just got a new day job in 2013.

That and a friend got me hooked on an MMO, something I (partially) regret to this day. Although said MMO's creators gave me ideas on how to actually make a game commercially viable.

Then there were the people whom I playtested the game on--some of whom were more PC gamers than classic console/arcade gamers--finding it 'meh', and given what I thought I needed to change to make it work commercially, I thought I bit off more than I could chew with this project.

Let's just say I fell into what Alluro over in the Xeno Fighters thread experienced recently himself: depression for a whole year.

At least personally, nothing's worse than people ignoring something you've worked so hard on for a long time, especially if those same people happen to be close to you. Which is why I'm thankful for BPZeBanshee and the other guys in here who showed their support.

But, like Udderdude over there in that other subforum *points to Shmups Chat* I realized that some things you just have to accomplish no matter what.
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 Post subject: Re: Papilio [v0.252 WIP]
PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 5:50 pm 


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Well, the "y u no finish?!" comment was really rhetorical and me just expressing frothing excitement.. :) But I do appreciate the honesty!

Quote:
Then there were the people whom I playtested the game on--some of whom were more PC gamers than classic console/arcade gamers--finding it 'meh', and given what I thought I needed to change to make it work commercially, I thought I bit off more than I could chew with this project.


This is a good thing. It is my firm belief that even if you are making a game as a hobby - you should attach a price tag to it. I don't think this should be as low as $1 as is this case with XBLIG games, I would actually encourage you to set the bar higher. It's fun to crunch numbers sometimes too. So I'll do that first.

Say your target is to make £1000. You sell your game for £1 a go, minus 30% from whatever publisher you're going through and you're looking at 70p a copy. Now you've gotta sell just under 1500 copies in order to make that goal. Add on top the need to cover expenses and you're talking about a hell of a lot.

On the other hand though, if you raise the price of your game to be on par with other doujin titles which is anywhere between $20 and $30 with a pressed disc release.. assuming lowest price point ($20) exchange rate gives you £11.71 per copy and you're looking at roughly an £800 or so expense to get a batch of 500 copies run.

But even then, you're looking at only 70 copies to cover the expense of getting the game pressed on to disc, which leaves you 430 remaining to sell. That's a potential £5000 you're now looking at for half the sales figures

Basically the point I'm trying to make here is not "look how rich you can get from shmups!!" - but rather that by focusing on the niche audience (i.e this community) and looking at their demands (most people want physical copies, most people will pay a reasonable amount for your game) - you'll actually end up making the same amount off a very limited audience.

This doesn't mean that you're ripping off your audience either. The fact that there are people in this community who will gladly pay £10, £15 or £20 for a good shooter means that they appreciate the value of your game. I don't think you want to stress yourself out by focusing on people who think your game is worth only $1.

The second part of this point is that by increasing the price point and physical value of your product and immediately shrinking your range of customers (having admitted defeat and accepting that you will not make millions) - you now have a clearer idea as a developer of the kind of game you want to aim for. This puts a higher pressure on you to make sure that the game is up to scratch and worth the price tag that you put on it. But you have already won half the battle by narrowing down and identifying the type of player you want to target the game at.

You can't sell Mario to someone who just doesn't like platformers.

Quote:
Then there were the people whom I playtested the game on--some of whom were more PC gamers than classic console/arcade gamers--finding it 'meh'


The distinction here isn't really "pc gamers" - since there's a lot of good players here who are PC gamers as well. By upping the price point of your game, you're already filtering this noise out. All that remains is the hardcore fanbase who WANT your game.

I know all about the long depression that comes with making these games, but I realised a little while ago a big part of this was trying to cater for people who simply wouldn't care about the game. It was not so long ago I had my own thread deleted on request due to stress and life balance which gave me time to think about wtf I was actually headed with this demented genre.

Also, don't forget despite the constant never ending shitstorm of posts - this is a VERY solid community. Not only do you have fellow developers who will happily playtest your beta releases (a lot of players would rather have the final build though) but you have an abundance of magazine writers, newspaper writers and people with connections to anime conventions, game conventions in both the east and the west. Don't be afraid to just poke around and ask these people for help. You'll be surprised to learn that they actually want to help you out more than you may realise at first - the big problem is that if nobody KNOWS about your game... they can't show support for something that they dont know exists! :-)

tl;dr - stay on the radar, love the community and it will love you back. Even if its sometimes a little harsh..:)

Hope that helps.. somehow!
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 Post subject: Re: Papilio [v0.252 WIP]
PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:25 pm 


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n0rtygames wrote:
You can't sell Mario to someone who just doesn't like platformers.

Unless you put "Kart" next to it :wink:

Snarky comments aside, I just wanted to drop by to tell I'm certainly looking forward for this project to get finished - no need to rush things. I absolutely adore the graphical style and those detailed sprites fill me with envy.
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 Post subject: Re: Papilio [v0.252 WIP]
PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 4:14 am 


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So happy to see this pop up again, I still say it's easily one of the most impressive (and charming) things done with GM I've ever seen. :mrgreen:
I'm the last person on earth who can be impatient when it comes to finishing stuff, though. :lol: Hope it eventually makes it out of the gate!
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 Post subject: Re: Papilio [v0.252 WIP]
PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 5:19 am 


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@n0rtygames: Good points. You hit the nail on the head on why I decided to attach a price tag to this: it forces me to cram a lot of value into the game that would not have otherwise been there.

This quote I agree with:

n0rtygames wrote:
The second part of this point is that by increasing the price point and physical value of your product and immediately shrinking your range of customers (having admitted defeat and accepting that you will not make millions) - you now have a clearer idea as a developer of the kind of game you want to aim for. This puts a higher pressure on you to make sure that the game is up to scratch and worth the price tag that you put on it. But you have already won half the battle by narrowing down and identifying the type of player you want to target the game at.


You are correct in that it really depends on the purpose of your game. Very few people could make a multi-million seller like SMB3, and some genres are more restrictive than others. Most shmups seem to have been historically perceived as "prestige" games that offer above-average challenge at the very least, and one of my mistakes may have been trying to take it past that level while at the same time taking too many of the genre's trappings for granted. As a result I lost the initial vision.

Related to the above: on the subject of "PC Gamers", I think that was poor wording on my part. I should have mentioned "non-customers" (i.e. customers who weren't into a particular product in the first place). Those guys I tested the game on were mostly new school-type gamers who were into Monster Hunter, Skyrim, Guild Wars and such. While some of them did provide me with excellent feedback, most panned out Papilio as simply being "too hard".

Ebbo wrote:
Unless you put "Kart" next to it


Or replace "Mario" with "Smash". ;)

@Rozyrg: You're too nice dude, thanks. :D

Minor update: I picked up sore throat and the chills from pulling an all nighter despite a mental block involving choosing between giant laser beams and exploding phoenixes, but I finally got the last Bomb weapon in. The graphics...need a lot of work though.

Image

Maybe now I can work on fixing the controls to automatically detect joystick input for both players and finish the frigging third stage.
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