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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:07 pm 


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emphatic wrote:
worstplayer wrote:
Seconding Ixmucane2's ideas about autofire. Maybe some ships could have different attacks for tapping and holding the fire (like DDP). Raiden having both spread gun and toothpaste laser is most obvious use of this.


I remember Alluro mentioning adding the green helicopter from DoDonpachi later on. Perhaps holding will trigger the lazer then? That would *complicate* adding full auto for all ships.


(Stares at C key)

...

Dedicated full-auto button?
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:37 pm 



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emphatic wrote:
worstplayer wrote:
Seconding Ixmucane2's ideas about autofire. Maybe some ships could have different attacks for tapping and holding the fire (like DDP). Raiden having both spread gun and toothpaste laser is most obvious use of this.


I remember Alluro mentioning adding the green helicopter from DoDonpachi later on. Perhaps holding will trigger the lazer then? That would *complicate* adding full auto for all ships.

Well, I asked full auto for the simple weapons found in this first demo, not for different future ones.
The DDP helicopter is one of the motivating good examples I had in mind for my remarks: it has sort-of full auto fire plus an alternate mode when tapping, and tapping doesn't have to be particularly quick.
If implemented, something I look forward to, the DDP helicopter can behave either like the original or like Aru-san's suggested (full auto laser with one button and full auto spread with the other): it would be unfaithful to the original but possibly nicer for the player.

Another simple example: ships lifted from Battle Garegga should be able to collect many "slaves" and change their formation with the third button, like in the original, with simple full auto fire on the first button.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:57 pm 



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Ixmucane2 wrote:
Have you considered adding another button for fancy features? Changing the formation of the slaves or shooting alternate weapons and alternate bombs would be obvious choices.
How willing to depart from the obvious Raiden and Raiden Fighters roots of your game are you?
Specifically, will the numerous ships you are planning be fancy dresses for RF-like weapons or a more faithful mashup of nontrivial and truly different weapons and systems from different games? With a little creativity the existing powerups and three buttons can emulate lots of upgrades and complex weapons.


I've figured out a system of how to change the Slave locations depending on the character you choose. For Miyamoto, you're right. It seems that his helpers and the Slaves fight for space around him. Slaves are a new mechanic that all fighters will have (including Miyamoto and Vic Viper). For Miyamoto, I'll have his Slaves gravitate towards his forward flanks as opposed to the default aft flanks. You have to admit it is amusing to see small plane wingmen accompanying a flying dragon though.

At this juncture, I am just recreating the core gameplay engine of the original Xeno Fighters. The remake will definitely have more features as time progresses. The big example of this is the deep scoring system. I will also give each ship unique characteristics, such as:

*Dual Bomber system: If I were to add a DDP ship to the roster, it'd have a dual Bomber system. Neutral Bomb is a screen-clearing explosion, while Fire + Bomb will give a giant concentrated laser blast.

*Non-RF weapons systems: The Cameo ships already have stackable weapons (use both Missile and Laser at the same time), while the default original ships (Amada Vipros, Phyxius, Zaiva, Xelcor) can use only one subweapon at a time.

My favorite Garegga ship is the Wild Snail. Its Laser would be a simple Shot powerup and Missile would give the Wild Snail options. It'd make use of a third button to change Option Formation. The only issue I see is that making an Option formation algorithm is going to take some substantial work. Its Bombs would be the Full-bomb version of its Search Fire.

Lastly, Autofire is a 100% sure feature in the remake. Raiden Fighters ships do have different rates of fire, ranging from the very fast Raiden mk-II's firing rate to single shots for each button press for the Raiden mk-II Beta. Physical exertion is part of the game in the Raiden Fighters series. However, since this game will be more manic than Raiden Fighters ever intended to be, autofire will be a definite feature in the remake. In fact, it was one of the most highly requested feature in the original version.

I have so much more to add to this train of thought. I will post more when I have time.

EDIT: Does the DDP green heli have a proper name? I keep calling it "DDP Type-B".
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:05 pm 


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IIRC, the slaves in the RF series were not only able to change formation at the collection of more slave icons, but they also powered up in firepower as well. In XFEX, currently they don't power up.

Question: Will slaves be able to power up in the final release, or will they be stuck with their one shots?
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:07 pm 


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Something that struck me while playing this demo is the large portions of the stages with very few enemies. If you are high up in the screen, killing of anything that friggin' moves "at a time", you often find yourself all alone rather often. Would be nice if you could add conditional enemies (like in ESPGALUDA/Ketsui, etc) that appear only if everything else has been shot down "early".

Like:
Code:
IF ememy21 shot down at stage_time 02.14
spawn extra_enemyswarm01


This way, the game will be deeper and more aggressive towards aggressive players.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:23 pm 


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Speaking of "at a time", will we also be expecting "Destroyed at a time!" bonus messages in the future?
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:03 pm 



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emphatic wrote:
Would be nice if you could add conditional enemies (like in ESPGALUDA/Ketsui, etc) that appear only if everything else has been shot down "early".


Raiden Fighters Jet does that too. Killing a large enemy quickly causes another one to appear. I plan to add that in here too.

Quote:
Question: Will slaves be able to power up in the final release, or will they be stuck with their one shots?


This is another feature I will add. My question to you: Do you think the game will benefit more with the extra Slave formations?
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:26 pm 


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so this is more than just a remake I take it. it might as well get a different name since you're adding so much more to it.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:01 pm 


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Alluro wrote:
My question to you: Do you think the game will benefit more with the extra Slave formations?


Considering that the slaves take more hits in XFEX (fact check?), I think they would benefit a variety of ways, both in the offense and defense department. My call is that yes, the game would benefit more with extra Slave formations, both as a homage to the RF series and as a nifty method of temporarily tolerating a load of bullets before destruction and kicking ass with fast, 3-way shots.
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Last edited by Aru-san on Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:04 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:01 pm 



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lilmanjs wrote:
so this is more than just a remake I take it. it might as well get a different name since you're adding so much more to it.


One name I'm considering for it: Xeno Fighters EX 2K9.

Aru-san wrote:
Alluro wrote:
My question to you: Do you think the game will benefit more with the extra Slave formations?


Considering that the slaves take more hits in XFEX (fact check?), I think they would benefit a variety of ways, both in the offense and defense department. My call is that yes, the game would benefit more with extra Slave formations (both as a homage to the RF series and as a nifty method of defense).


All right. Consider it done. I will put in all four RF Slave special formations (Crossing, Hunter, Front, and Strong). Fighters like Miyamoto definitely benefit from the added firepower of Slaves, since his main shot is quite weak and really only does significant damage if you point-blank enemies at a dangerously close range.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:12 am 


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you could just call this a sequel and be done with it. I like the name choice though.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:43 am 



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lilmanjs wrote:
you could just call this a sequel and be done with it. I like the name choice though.


It's not a sequel, since it will recreate all 8 levels in the original. It will have extra cameo ships and extra levels, though.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:02 am 


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Sadly, i have FRAPS problems with this game, whenever i record it, FRAPS doesn't take the game's window resolution but of whole Desktop so it's leaving the game in upper-left corner in movie and rest of it is black, same problem with MAME -_-

EDIT: I think it's FRAPS fault that it doesn't record resolutions which are not power of 2 properly
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:21 am 



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Kaiser wrote:
Sadly, i have FRAPS problems with this game, whenever i record it, FRAPS doesn't take the game's window resolution but of whole Desktop so it's leaving the game in upper-left corner in movie and rest of it is black, same problem with MAME -_-

EDIT: I think it's FRAPS fault that it doesn't record resolutions which are not power of 2 properly


I use SnagIt for all of my game videos on YouTube. You can set almost any capture size using it.

SnagIt: http://www.techsmith.com/download/snagittrial.asp
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:39 am 


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Alluro wrote:
Kaiser wrote:
Sadly, i have FRAPS problems with this game, whenever i record it, FRAPS doesn't take the game's window resolution but of whole Desktop so it's leaving the game in upper-left corner in movie and rest of it is black, same problem with MAME -_-

EDIT: I think it's FRAPS fault that it doesn't record resolutions which are not power of 2 properly


I use SnagIt for all of my game videos on YouTube. You can set almost any capture size using it.

SnagIt: http://www.techsmith.com/download/snagittrial.asp
Ok, will try it later, hope it works well both with this game and MAME (so i could record my INP replays)
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:35 pm 


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Alluro wrote:
lilmanjs wrote:
you could just call this a sequel and be done with it. I like the name choice though.


It's not a sequel, since it will recreate all 8 levels in the original. It will have extra cameo ships and extra levels, though.


call it Xeno Fighters EX: Let's Shooting Party '09
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:05 pm 



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Development update:

New ships expected to be in the next demo version (v0.2):
*The four original XF-EX ships (Amada Vipros, Phyxius, Zaiva, Xelcor)
*Vic Viper (same weaponry as the original XF-EX: Shadow Options, Spread Bomb, Beam Cannon)
*Lord British (F-Options, Ripple Laser, Undecided Bomb [possibly Mega Crush])
*DDP Type-B (with both Shot-Type and Laser Type configurations depending on what Power-Up you collect. Also, has dual-Bomber capability)
*XOP Ship (Need input as to what subweapon to give it from the XOP games. Bomber is the Reflect Shield. In this game, the reflect shield itself will deal minimal damage. The reflected bullets also deal minimal damage to prevent fast kills on bullet-spamming bosses. It would be one of the weakest Bombers in the game, offset by its instantaneous deployment.)
*Wild Snail (Upgradeable main shot, Options. Will make use of a third button to change Option Formations to that of the Garegga formations. Bomber is the Full-Bomb version of the Search Fire)

Bugs fixed:
*Collecting a powerup on the same frame as it is spawned from an exploding enemy will not upgrade your weapons.

Features to be done:
*High-score display working.
*Continue system
*Rudimentary options menu
*Option to turn on or off the hitbox display (it is off as of v0.1a).
*Autofire option.
*Special RF Slave formations.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:44 pm 


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Alluro wrote:
Development update:

New ships expected to be in the next demo version (v0.2):
*The four original XF-EX ships (Amada Vipros, Phyxius, Zaiva, Xelcor)
*Vic Viper (same weaponry as the original XF-EX: Shadow Options, Spread Bomb, Beam Cannon)
*Lord British (F-Options, Ripple Laser, Undecided Bomb [possibly Mega Crush])
*DDP Type-B (with both Shot-Type and Laser Type configurations depending on what Power-Up you collect. Also, has dual-Bomber capability)
*XOP Ship (Need input as to what subweapon to give it from the XOP games. Bomber is the Reflect Shield. In this game, the reflect shield itself will deal minimal damage. The reflected bullets also deal minimal damage to prevent fast kills on bullet-spamming bosses. It would be one of the weakest Bombers in the game, offset by its instantaneous deployment.)
*Wild Snail (Upgradeable main shot, Options. Will make use of a third button to change Option Formations to that of the Garegga formations. Bomber is the Full-Bomb version of the Search Fire)


Holy crap, 9 ships in one build.

Well, at least I get to kick ass again with Phyxius!

Then again, I'll probably give all of the new ships a try.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 7:54 am 


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Alluro wrote:
Kaiser wrote:
Sadly, i have FRAPS problems with this game, whenever i record it, FRAPS doesn't take the game's window resolution but of whole Desktop so it's leaving the game in upper-left corner in movie and rest of it is black, same problem with MAME -_-

EDIT: I think it's FRAPS fault that it doesn't record resolutions which are not power of 2 properly


I use SnagIt for all of my game videos on YouTube. You can set almost any capture size using it.

SnagIt: http://www.techsmith.com/download/snagittrial.asp
I'm not really satisfied with SnagIt, not only it does not catch sound from MAME but also it records 15 FPS : P
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:10 am 



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Kaiser wrote:
I'm not really satisfied with SnagIt, not only it does not catch sound from MAME but also it records 15 FPS : P


You can set the framerate of your capture in SnagIt (in version 8) by going to the Output menu and selecting Properties. In the Video Options section of the dialog box, you can set your FPS there. I normally use 30 fps. At times, I go up to 60fps for HQ MAME replays.

Most computers' sound hardware today have the ability to record its sound output. This is done by opening your Volume Control settings and displaying the Recording volume levels. The recording source in question is called different things. On mine, it's called "Wave Out Mix". Other names for this same source include "Stereo Mix" and "Audio Out Mix". I use this source to record whatever sound output my computer produces.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 8:42 pm 


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I can't get over how good this game is. the only problem every other gamemaker made game I own doesn't run so slow. I'm usually at like %45 on the framerate. why does this game run so slow?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 4:02 am 



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Early custom sprites for the vertical Vic Viper and Lord British:

Image
Image

These are custom vertical sprites made by a friend, known as Gun6 on the internet. The Vic Viper sprites are quite close, but Lord British needs a bit more touch ups, so I began touching up the centered Lord B sprite, as seen above. I added much more definition to the canopy and the tail. The shape of the body has been fixed somewhat. Overall, the Lord British has been given a Raiden Fighters-style appearance.

Feel free to help out with these sprites.

lilmanjs wrote:
I can't get over how good this game is. the only problem every other gamemaker made game I own doesn't run so slow. I'm usually at like %45 on the framerate. why does this game run so slow?


How complex are the other Game Maker games you've tried? Xeno Fighters is quite a complex game, so it will tax certain computers.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:38 am 



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On the subject of music, I've found some good picks for each level, if you're still unsatisfied with what you've found. It's not THAT different from my last iteration, admittedly...

St. 1: "Open Your Eyes" (Zero Wing st. 1, Genesis version)
St. 2: "The Ritual" (Blast Wind, st. 3)
Silver Banshee and Gettok: "King Bird" (Batsugun, theme of Madzilla)
St. 3: "Water Splash" (R-Type II, st. 2)
Jade Hydra and Bronze Harpy: "Chaos Oppression" (Mahou Daisakusen, boss 5)
St. 4-1: "Deadline" (A-JAX, st. 4)
St. 4-2: "Sea of Flame" (Thunder Force IV, st. 7)
Orion XD-6: "Parapsychology" (Battle Bakraid, theme of Vampire)
St. 5: Air Gallet, st. 4 (provisional name: "Gilt-Lead Throne")
Citadel Geryon: "Dusky" (Last Resort, boss 4)
St. 6: "Speed" (Salamander II, st. 5)
St. 7: "Steel of Destiny" (Thunder Force V, st. 5)
St. 8-1: "Wings of Darkness" (Grid Seeker, st. 7)
St. 8-2: "A Poisonous Snake" (V-Five, st. 6) There's a particular remix by J.B. I have, but I'm not sure how to get it to you...
Dreadnought Echidna: "Awaking Threat" (Raiden D/X PSX special soundtrack, final boss)


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:05 am 



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This looks like a great alternate soundtrack for the game. I'm also changing around a few songs for the default soundtrack. For example, I'm now using the Sky Soldiers boss theme for Stage 1's BGM.

On another subject, here's some scoring opportunities in the demo:

Stage 1: 34 or 35 chain up to the boss:
Image

Stage 3: Weather Teramanta's attacks and wait until the 9 striker A-10 planes start appearing. Destroy the A-10's first, then go for Teramanta and get a x16 kill on it (125,000 x 16 = 2 million points).
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:38 am 


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Finally after knowing of this place for a considerably long time, I have a genuinely outstanding reason to register. XD

Firstly, may I say that I have been playing Xeno Fighters for a good while now and I absolutely LOVE what you've done with this new version in Game Maker. I especially like what you've done with the Raiden MK-II, the Plasma beam is excellent and is perfectly accurate to to original version except for one small glitch in where you move with the beam and when it settles back into straight position it gets jagged. The Thermonuclear Bomb looks much more realistic compared to the MMF versions of Xeno Fighters.
Also I noticed that the green thrusters do not show when the plane is in the middle of an explosion such as its Thermonuclear Bomb.
May I suggest that (in the much later versions of this remake) you have the Raiden MK-II Beta with its faster speed as such? While it is a clone plane, I feel that it should be quite a viable option as it seems rather under-rated for a alternative option to the standard Raiden plane.

Secondly, the soundtrack is rather good as it is, although I feel that the old theme for the second part of Level 4 and the Final Level theme should've remained as it was. Nevertheless, the room for change in the soundtrack is quite pleasing as there are not that many games which have that freedom. And I quite like the original Jade Hydra theme, nice change from the dark and sad theme that drags on with the rest of the stage.

Thirdly (for those with issues running the game at reasonable speeds), I recommend using Windows Task Manager to terminate explorer.exe and increase the priority of the Xeno Fighters program to High. On my rather old PC (1000 Mhz, 32 MB Graphics card and 512 MB RAM) I can get more reasonable speeds with this, especially as the Raiden MK-II's Lock-On Beam is more CPU-consuming for older PCs than the other planes.

Speaking of the other planes, a friend of mine finds Miyamoto a strange ship to be in the selection with all the other planes as its a figure rather than a plane, although I beg to differ, as such variety from different SHMUPs gives yet another freedom not seen in many games today. In fact, the Miclus would be an interesting choice to include as well.

Lastly, I think the graphics are quite good as it is (as of v0.1a) except for some glitches in Level 3 where the craters are a few steps above their actual place. Especially compared to the MMF version of it where everything seemed "cut-and-paste".

Sorry for the long post, I really enjoy this game and I had a lot to say about the stuff that's been mentioned in this thread so far. :D


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:05 am 



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BPzeBanshee wrote:
Secondly, the soundtrack is rather good as it is, although I feel that the old theme for the second part of Level 4 and the Final Level theme should've remained as it was. Nevertheless, the room for change in the soundtrack is quite pleasing as there are not that many games which have that freedom. And I quite like the original Jade Hydra theme, nice change from the dark and sad theme that drags on with the rest of the stage.


If you are referring to Skyknight's post a few posts up, he's proposing an alternate soundtrack. I'm still using the original default soundtrack for the most part. A few songs may get changed, and I'm currently using the Sky Soldiers boss theme for Stage 1 for now.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:27 am 


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Ok first off I'm not usually amused by clone games.

HOWEVER this game is really really solid.

I will be looking forward to see what you do with this. The ships all handle uniquely which is a good thing. Not a huge fan of the movement style but that is fine since you did your research and the original games had it. Keep up the good work! Great to see new people making shmups around here.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 7:11 am 



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Admittedly, when it comes to music choices, there's the matter of the tone it lends to the stage. St. 8-1 comes to mind in a hurry...

"Blue Man" (not to mention my original alternate, X-Multiply st. 6 "Twilight Sight"): Mystery, unknown, somewhat calm. Emphasis is on the mysterious quality of the temporal tunnel.
"Invade Your Mind": Hurried, frenzied, harsh. Emphasis ends up on the desperate nature of the battle against the enemy—get through that tunnel!
"Wings of Darkness": Subdued (putting aside the single cymbal crashes in the last movement), ominous. Emphasis becomes the dread the heroes hold for what would happen if the enemy is victorious, as well as the ought-to-be-impossible nature of the temporal technology. In other words, the terror invoked by the enemy's command over the fabric of time. And you're right in the midst of the means of that command...

(And if you need a provisional name for the Sky Soldiers boss theme in the sound test, how about "Fulcrum"? I always thought the whole game was an effort to stop Amondule from changing history, not the poster's "Experience the past to prepare for the future". The fulcra? The ridiculously powerful warships Amondule supplied to tip all the wrong battles...and in the last level, Amondule itself the fulcrum on which peace and tyranny swayed.)

Anyway, which other stages are planned for the next beta? I would guess st. 5 and/or st. 6, since they don't need as many alien vessels.

And new title? Xeno Fighters SP, perhaps?


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 7:35 am 



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Skyknight wrote:
Admittedly, when it comes to music choices, there's the matter of the tone it lends to the stage. St. 8-1 comes to mind in a hurry...

"Blue Man" (not to mention my original alternate, X-Multiply st. 6 "Twilight Sight"): Mystery, unknown, somewhat calm. Emphasis is on the mysterious quality of the temporal tunnel.
"Invade Your Mind": Hurried, frenzied, harsh. Emphasis ends up on the desperate nature of the battle against the enemy—get through that tunnel!
"Wings of Darkness": Subdued (putting aside the single cymbal crashes in the last movement), ominous. Emphasis becomes the dread the heroes hold for what would happen if the enemy is victorious, as well as the ought-to-be-impossible nature of the temporal technology. In other words, the terror invoked by the enemy's command over the fabric of time. And you're right in the midst of the means of that command...

(And if you need a provisional name for the Sky Soldiers boss theme in the sound test, how about "Fulcrum"? I always thought the whole game was an effort to stop Amondule from changing history, not the poster's "Experience the past to prepare for the future". The fulcra? The ridiculously powerful warships Amondule supplied to tip all the wrong battles...and in the last level, Amondule itself the fulcrum on which peace and tyranny swayed.)

Anyway, which other stages are planned for the next beta? I would guess st. 5 and/or st. 6, since they don't need as many alien vessels.

And new title? Xeno Fighters SP, perhaps?


It's funny that you mention Stage 8-1 and Invade Your Mind, since I'm currently using that song for that stage. Talk about coincidence!

The next stages I have planned are Stages 5 and 6. I'll also try to have a stage select screen handy.

Also, expect there to be new midboss for Stage 5. Have not decided if it should be a large plane or a large sea vessel over the Persian Gulf.

Also, that backstory for Sky Soldiers is very interesting. I never knew that it had one. Is there more to it than what you typed? The arcade blurb I saw for its story was different: Your mission is to go back in time and participate in the greatest wars in history.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:13 am 


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Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 4832
Alluro wrote:
If you are referring to Skyknight's post a few posts up, he's proposing an alternate soundtrack. I'm still using the original default soundtrack for the most part. A few songs may get changed, and I'm currently using the Sky Soldiers boss theme for Stage 1 for now.

Well, I wasn't really making references to any specific point, although I'm interested in seeing what alternate tracks could be availiable for it. Who knows, I might implement some tracks I chose for a discontinued SHMUP I made for the collection (with most of the tracks in question not actually from SHMUPs, rather Sega Megadrive Tracks and some pitch-edits).

One other thing I thought I should mention - I personally dislike the intro for Techno-Fukagu as I can't read Japanese and the voice is hard for my ears to hear. As a solution, maybe there should be a toggle in the Options Menu for the Japanese names?


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